Hit plateau, thinking of increasing calories?
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If you aren't losing weight, you are consuming too many calories. That's just the sad reality. You must eat less.
The fact is that for most people when you start losing body fat your metabolism slows down as your body tries to protect fat stores. It may be that you have to be obese "for some period of time" to cause your body to adapt to a new set point. It is not clear at this time how long that period of time is.
A person who was obese who is of the same body mass of someone who was never obese has a metabolism that is 15-20% less than the person who was never obese. This effect may be permanent. So the reality you have to set yourself up for is not only do you have to eat less food to lose weight, you will have to eat 15-20% less than someone of the same body mass who was never obese.
The only known medical procedure that resets the neural and hormonal responsivity mechanisms at play here is bariatric surgery.
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(15)00009-1/abstract
You must sign up to read the full article in The Lancet Journal but it is free to do so.
Here is a video lecture by Dr. Rudy Libel of Columbia University Medical Center that covers similar ground:
http://videocast.nih.gov/Summary.asp?File=11764&bhcp=1
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aprilyankee wrote: »I don't think you are quite at a plateau but I understand how frustrating lack of progress is for any length of time, especially since you are working so hard.
A few points to consider:
- Do some taped measurements, muscle increase won't reflect on the scale but it will in inches lost
- Muscle weighs more than fat so even a weight gain isn't the end of the world
- You don't want to lose too much too fast
- Sometimes the optimal weight that you have planned to achieve isn't the optimal weight for your body, and it fails to comply with your ideals
- Consider your net calories for the day, week and month
I do think you need to increase your calorie consumption. If you aren't in starvation mode yet, you are approaching it. A large loss is most always common in the beginning because your body takes time to adjust to the changes. Once is does, the loss will slow down. Your net calories should be around 1800-2000 daily. I think your few high calorie days may have actually saved you and kept you from hitting starvation mode. You can have high and low days as long as they balance over the month.
It takes time to get into starvation mode, it depends on the person, but at least a month. Which is why short term fasting works so well. I did 6 months of eating 1200 calories and burning 800 daily which left me at a net of 400. I lost 30 pounds, crashed my metabolism and gained double back.
Congrats on your progress and good luck!
How do you get so much WRONG in so little space?
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What was the person who said "eating more is not the answer." Eating more is not the answer. If things like 'starvation mode' were real, all those starving children in Africa wouldn't be flesh and bones. There is no such thing as starvation mode. You are eating more than you think you are. Or your body is retaining water to recover. Or you're not drinking enough so your body is just retaining water period. Or you've substituted fat for leaner muscle mass, which is more dense, so it appears that you haven't lost fat, when in fact you have. Or or or. There's a billion reasons that weight loss isn't linear. You say you work out like crazy, so that tells me, your body is almost certainly clinging to water to repair. And it also tells me you're probably replacing fat with leaner muscle mass... are you meticulously measuring to see if your measurements have changed? My weight stuck at 236 for a good couple of weeks, but my waist lost 2 inches in that time... shenanigans?
Losing 20 pounds in 2 months is not shabby! Honestly, I'd just keep doing what I'm doing, drink more water, and if it's still not budging in another 2 weeks... go to a doctor and get my thyroid checked. Or go low carb, or fiddle with my macros somehow. You could have a go at a few days of low carb high fat, and see if that surprises your system in the same way that a refeed might.
But, maybe you shouldn't listen to my advice. I signed out yesterday with less than 500 calories, because I simply wasn't hungry, and why the crap would I shove more food in my face then? I'm in camp 'listen to your body', not in camp 'meticulous notes'.
You've done great. Like, really damn great. Your body's probably just adjusting to the crazy you've been putting it through. Drink some more water. Listen to your body. Does it say 'feed me more'? Does it say 'nope, we're cool bro'? Or maybe 'we always wanted to try that weird paleo diet'? Or 'actually, I think wheat makes my throat itchy'? Or 'we would drink more water if you would just put limes in it'? Well, then try those things. 0 -
I've never used a calculator to figure out my TDEE they are so off...
Total calories consumed+(Total lbs lost x 3500)/# of days =TDEE
So for for example while I was losing I took a 3 week span and logged consistently and accurately with my food scale etc.
28168+(3.25x3500)/21=1883 (Sept 2013) no lifting
46006+(4x3500)/21=2143 (Jan 2014 lifting for 5 months
My Current TDEE is between 2000-2100
Summer time TDEE is between 2350-2500 (lots more cardio done)
OP use that if you want it's not mine ETP group has it...as for what to do...what you are doing seems to be working fine to me.0 -
OP - I do not think that you would benefit from a re-feed. You have been dieting for seven weeks and lost 20 pounds, which is great progress. Eventually, you are going to have these little blips where you lose nothing, and then start losing again.
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Weight loss is not going to be linear. If you plotted out some of my cuts you will see that there are peeks and valleys, but the overall trend is down. You really just need patience.
I would highly suggest listening to MrM as I have known him for some time, and he as always given me solid advice....
Question - have you readjusted your calories down to reflect your 20 pound loss?
Do you think I need to adjust them down from 1800 calories a day? This amount is already 50% or so of my TDEE and I lift heavy 3-4 times a week. For what it's worth I'm 6' and roughly 28% body fat currently.
OK - then keep them at 1800 ...
I think you just need to keep doing what you are doing..
I feel as if it's like talking to the wall. This guy wants specific answers and that's all. He keeps ignoring the fact that he isn't in a plateau. The fact that he has lost 20 lbs in 2 months but is still asking if he should lower carbs. Fortunately for him there are plenty of people on this site that are clueless that won't look at any of those factors and will tell him "check the accuracy of the logging or eat less".
Maybe he will post the answer he wants and we can just copy and paste it back since he doesn't want to listen to anyone's advice.0 -
I've never used a calculator to figure out my TDEE they are so off...
Total calories consumed+(Total lbs lost x 3500)/# of days =TDEE
So for for example while I was losing I took a 3 week span and logged consistently and accurately with my food scale etc.
28168+(3.25x3500)/21=1883 (Sept 2013) no lifting
46006+(4x3500)/21=2143 (Jan 2014 lifting for 5 months
My Current TDEE is between 2000-2100
Summer time TDEE is between 2350-2500 (lots more cardio done)
OP use that if you want it's not mine ETP group has it...as for what to do...what you are doing seems to be working fine to me.
This is intriguing to me and I most likely will try it in the following weeks. It makes complete sense and seems like an easy way to accomplish what @ndj1979 suggested previously without taking a full year to get it nailed down. Just for curiosity, how do your numbers compare to the online TDEE/BMR calculators? I have been using this one (http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced) because it appears to control for the most variables rather than just a simply activity multiplier?0 -
What was the person who said "eating more is not the answer." Eating more is not the answer. If things like 'starvation mode' were real, all those starving children in Africa wouldn't be flesh and bones. There is no such thing as starvation mode. You are eating more than you think you are. Or your body is retaining water to recover. Or you're not drinking enough so your body is just retaining water period. Or you've substituted fat for leaner muscle mass, which is more dense, so it appears that you haven't lost fat, when in fact you have. Or or or. There's a billion reasons that weight loss isn't linear. You say you work out like crazy, so that tells me, your body is almost certainly clinging to water to repair. And it also tells me you're probably replacing fat with leaner muscle mass... are you meticulously measuring to see if your measurements have changed? My weight stuck at 236 for a good couple of weeks, but my waist lost 2 inches in that time... shenanigans?
I actually just started taking bodily measurements this past week because the scale was being stubborn. So I'm hoping I notice inches being lost in the next couple weeks if the scale continues to not move. I don't believe I can gain the amount of muscle I am losing in (hopefully only) fat with the current deficit I have. I can always be hopeful I get an extra few pounds of 'noob' muscle gains (Does taking 2 years off from lifting let you get noob gains again I wonder?), but I don't think it would account for several pounds in the past couple weeks, though I really wish.
I sometimes find it hard to listen to my body like you suggest and why I try to log as much data as possible, but I am feeling satiated throughout the day with my 1800, though I can definitely feel my workouts suffering if I don't get all my carbs in before working out at night. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post too, I really enjoyed reading it
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OP - I do not think that you would benefit from a re-feed. You have been dieting for seven weeks and lost 20 pounds, which is great progress. Eventually, you are going to have these little blips where you lose nothing, and then start losing again.
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Weight loss is not going to be linear. If you plotted out some of my cuts you will see that there are peeks and valleys, but the overall trend is down. You really just need patience.
I would highly suggest listening to MrM as I have known him for some time, and he as always given me solid advice....
Question - have you readjusted your calories down to reflect your 20 pound loss?
Do you think I need to adjust them down from 1800 calories a day? This amount is already 50% or so of my TDEE and I lift heavy 3-4 times a week. For what it's worth I'm 6' and roughly 28% body fat currently.
OK - then keep them at 1800 ...
I think you just need to keep doing what you are doing..
I feel as if it's like talking to the wall. This guy wants specific answers and that's all. He keeps ignoring the fact that he isn't in a plateau. The fact that he has lost 20 lbs in 2 months but is still asking if he should lower carbs. Fortunately for him there are plenty of people on this site that are clueless that won't look at any of those factors and will tell him "check the accuracy of the logging or eat less".
Maybe he will post the answer he wants and we can just copy and paste it back since he doesn't want to listen to anyone's advice.
I must have missed the post by @MrM27 about me being like talking to a wall.
I specifically mentioned that I probably wasn't in a plateau in a previous post. Just looking for help to not have the loss slow down.He keeps ignoring the fact that he isn't in a plateau.
The reason I asked about lowering carbs is because that was suggested by jacksonpt so I told him my macros and asked if he still would suggest doing that.The fact that he has lost 20 lbs in 2 months but is still asking if he should lower carbs.
The only thing specific I was trying to glean from this post was to see what people thought about eating below BMR and the affect of increasing calories to help speed weight loss since it was such a large deficit rather than the always suggested 20% or less deficit.
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I've never used a calculator to figure out my TDEE they are so off...
Total calories consumed+(Total lbs lost x 3500)/# of days =TDEE
So for for example while I was losing I took a 3 week span and logged consistently and accurately with my food scale etc.
28168+(3.25x3500)/21=1883 (Sept 2013) no lifting
46006+(4x3500)/21=2143 (Jan 2014 lifting for 5 months
My Current TDEE is between 2000-2100
Summer time TDEE is between 2350-2500 (lots more cardio done)
OP use that if you want it's not mine ETP group has it...as for what to do...what you are doing seems to be working fine to me.
This is intriguing to me and I most likely will try it in the following weeks. It makes complete sense and seems like an easy way to accomplish what @ndj1979 suggested previously without taking a full year to get it nailed down. Just for curiosity, how do your numbers compare to the online TDEE/BMR calculators? I have been using this one (http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced) because it appears to control for the most variables rather than just a simply activity multiplier?
When I was losing they were high, too high...now that I am at goal they are pretty consistent with what I see....maybe a bit lower if I take Scooby and IIFYM and average they say about 1900 for winter time...
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OP - I do not think that you would benefit from a re-feed. You have been dieting for seven weeks and lost 20 pounds, which is great progress. Eventually, you are going to have these little blips where you lose nothing, and then start losing again.
-
Weight loss is not going to be linear. If you plotted out some of my cuts you will see that there are peeks and valleys, but the overall trend is down. You really just need patience.
I would highly suggest listening to MrM as I have known him for some time, and he as always given me solid advice....
Question - have you readjusted your calories down to reflect your 20 pound loss?
Do you think I need to adjust them down from 1800 calories a day? This amount is already 50% or so of my TDEE and I lift heavy 3-4 times a week. For what it's worth I'm 6' and roughly 28% body fat currently.
OK - then keep them at 1800 ...
I think you just need to keep doing what you are doing..
I feel as if it's like talking to the wall. This guy wants specific answers and that's all. He keeps ignoring the fact that he isn't in a plateau. The fact that he has lost 20 lbs in 2 months but is still asking if he should lower carbs. Fortunately for him there are plenty of people on this site that are clueless that won't look at any of those factors and will tell him "check the accuracy of the logging or eat less".
Maybe he will post the answer he wants and we can just copy and paste it back since he doesn't want to listen to anyone's advice.
I must have missed the post by @MrM27 about me being like talking to a wall.
I specifically mentioned that I probably wasn't in a plateau in a previous post. Just looking for help to not have the loss slow down.He keeps ignoring the fact that he isn't in a plateau.
The reason I asked about lowering carbs is because that was suggested by jacksonpt so I told him my macros and asked if he still would suggest doing that.The fact that he has lost 20 lbs in 2 months but is still asking if he should lower carbs.
The only thing specific I was trying to glean from this post was to see what people thought about eating below BMR and the affect of increasing calories to help speed weight loss since it was such a large deficit rather than the always suggested 20% or less deficit.
eating below BMR for a period of time isn't gonna kill you...but I wouldn't do it for "years" per say.
Increasing calories to help speed weight loss....say that out loud and tell me what it sounds like....adding in food to lose weight...I believe if you eat at a reasonable deficit you are good for the long haul personally...I was never one for staying at TDEE-20% I would go between 1600-1800 calories usually and that would mean I lost between 1/2 and 3/4lb a week...over the entire course of my weight loss which seems to work for me...even now I am eating between 1800-2200 a day and watch for my weekly totals.
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Here's the bottom line for people who are scared off by the whole "took me a year to figure out my numbers" thing.
Come up with a daily calorie intake. Use a calculator like MFP or any of the zillions of other ones that are out there. Pick a number out of a hat. Throw darts at a dart board. I don't care, but pick one as a starting point. Eat that many calories per day for 4-6 weeks. Evaluate your progress. If you're losing and you feel good, keep going. If you're losing but lack energy, eat a little more. If you're not losing, eat a little less. Re-evalute in 4-6 weeks and tweak again if necessary.
Part of getting started is feeling things out, and that often includes some trial and error. There's no way around it.0 -
Just a different kind of approach which may help: Try changing up your routine..0
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Starvation Mode is a myth. Increasing calories in order to lose weight is like adding more water to drain a pool. Calories are not magic devises, they are a unit that measures energy. The fat in your body is stored energy, if you add energy to stored energy the energy store goes up not down. There are no magic pills or secret tricks to losing weight and anyone who says otherwise is scamming you or repeating a scam they bought.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/0 -
OP - I do not think that you would benefit from a re-feed. You have been dieting for seven weeks and lost 20 pounds, which is great progress. Eventually, you are going to have these little blips where you lose nothing, and then start losing again.
-
Weight loss is not going to be linear. If you plotted out some of my cuts you will see that there are peeks and valleys, but the overall trend is down. You really just need patience.
I would highly suggest listening to MrM as I have known him for some time, and he as always given me solid advice....
Question - have you readjusted your calories down to reflect your 20 pound loss?
Do you think I need to adjust them down from 1800 calories a day? This amount is already 50% or so of my TDEE and I lift heavy 3-4 times a week. For what it's worth I'm 6' and roughly 28% body fat currently.
OK - then keep them at 1800 ...
I think you just need to keep doing what you are doing..
I feel as if it's like talking to the wall. This guy wants specific answers and that's all. He keeps ignoring the fact that he isn't in a plateau. The fact that he has lost 20 lbs in 2 months but is still asking if he should lower carbs. Fortunately for him there are plenty of people on this site that are clueless that won't look at any of those factors and will tell him "check the accuracy of the logging or eat less".
Maybe he will post the answer he wants and we can just copy and paste it back since he doesn't want to listen to anyone's advice.
I must have missed the post by @MrM27 about me being like talking to a wall.
I specifically mentioned that I probably wasn't in a plateau in a previous post. Just looking for help to not have the loss slow down.He keeps ignoring the fact that he isn't in a plateau.
The reason I asked about lowering carbs is because that was suggested by jacksonpt so I told him my macros and asked if he still would suggest doing that.The fact that he has lost 20 lbs in 2 months but is still asking if he should lower carbs.
The only thing specific I was trying to glean from this post was to see what people thought about eating below BMR and the affect of increasing calories to help speed weight loss since it was such a large deficit rather than the always suggested 20% or less deficit.
I cannot wrap my mind around how increasing calories would speed up your weigh loss? That is not how losing weight works0 -
*ndj1979 wrote: »
» show previous quotes
OK - then keep them at 1800 ...
I think you just need to keep doing what you are doing..
I feel as if it's like talking to the wall. this guy wants specific answers and that's all. He keeps ignoring the fact that he isn't in a plateau. The fact that he has lost 20 lbs in 2 months but is still asking if he should lower carbs. Fortunately for him there are plenty of people on this site that are clueless that won't look at any of those factors and will tell him "check the accuracy of the logging or eat less".
Just as long as the wall isn't talking back.0 -
I specifically said in my original post "I know I am not in 'starvation mode'". Thank you for taking the time to cite that article though. I had seen it before and thought it was very thoroughStarvation Mode is a myth. Increasing calories in order to lose weight is like adding more water to drain a pool. Calories are not magic devises, they are a unit that measures energy. The fat in your body is stored energy, if you add energy to stored energy the energy store goes up not down. There are no magic pills or secret tricks to losing weight and anyone who says otherwise is scamming you or repeating a scam they bought.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/0
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