Hit plateau, thinking of increasing calories?
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I'm also in the DON'T EAT MORE camp. If you think not losing for a couple weeks is tough, wait until you lose just ounces in a month. I've been at this a year. The answer has NEVER been eat more. Boy do I wish it was.
Something I do want to add though. I think you should eat as much as you can that still allows you to lose.
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You want to tell you why it is okay to eat below your current BMR? First of your BMR right now is based off your current bodies state, fat/muscle/tissue/bone/organs etc. So to simply say don't ever eat below a certain number is just saying stuff to say it. You calculate your lbm and eat enough protein giving you proper amino acids to maintain positive or equalibrium nitrogen levels. You eat adequate amounts of dietary fat to provide your body what it needs to produce/repair cells, protect organs, regulate body temp etc. Then you select carbs, which are discretionary. You can do 20g, 50g, 200g whatever you choose as long as it doesn't put you into a surplus. So after you figure all that out and construct your diet in a way that provides you with adequate vitamins and mineral, then you see what number is okay to eat. Not some generic don't eat below BMR number that gets thrown around.
Metabolic adaptation will occur in everyone as a result of caloric restriction but people over emphasize how much we actually go through. The highest drops you're looking at 15-17% which is over an extended period of time and isn't far off the normal drop offs.
You were suggested a refeed, it's up to you to ask for the science behind it and the logic. Not the belief.
The biggest point of this whole thread, and I will put it in capital letters so you don't miss it, unless you are looking for specific answers to begin with is..........YOU ARE NOT IN A PLATEAU, YOU HAVE LOST 20 LBS IN UNDER 2 MONTHS, IT'S ONLY BEEN 2 WEEKS SINCE YOU LOST WEIGHT..................................THAT IS NOT A PLATEAU
My understanding was that the TDEE and BMR equations used in the calculators are doing exactly what your first paragraph states, so the 2200-2500 numbers given are calculating exactly what you are talking about. I wasn't aware that the highest drop in metabolic rate was 15-17% so thank you for the figure.
I also agree that I am not in a plateau as I have dropped some weight the past two weeks, but am asking for advie to help it not slow since the calories in and calories out equations have not changed and should result in 2+lbs loss per week.0 -
aprilyankee wrote: »I don't think you are quite at a plateau but I understand how frustrating lack of progress is for any length of time, especially since you are working so hard.
A few points to consider:
- Do some taped measurements, muscle increase won't reflect on the scale but it will in inches lost
- Muscle weighs more than fat so even a weight gain isn't the end of the world
- You don't want to lose too much too fast
- Sometimes the optimal weight that you have planned to achieve isn't the optimal weight for your body, and it fails to comply with your ideals
- Consider your net calories for the day, week and month
I do think you need to increase your calorie consumption. If you aren't in starvation mode yet, you are approaching it. A large loss is most always common in the beginning because your body takes time to adjust to the changes. Once is does, the loss will slow down. Your net calories should be around 1800-2000 daily. I think your few high calorie days may have actually saved you and kept you from hitting starvation mode. You can have high and low days as long as they balance over the month.
It takes time to get into starvation mode, it depends on the person, but at least a month. Which is why short term fasting works so well. I did 6 months of eating 1200 calories and burning 800 daily which left me at a net of 400. I lost 30 pounds, crashed my metabolism and gained double back.
Congrats on your progress and good luck!
oh my no ...
this is 100% everything that you should ignore...
muscle ways more than fat...starvation mode!!???? ughhhhh0 -
OP - I do not think that you would benefit from a re-feed. You have been dieting for seven weeks and lost 20 pounds, which is great progress. Eventually, you are going to have these little blips where you lose nothing, and then start losing again.
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Weight loss is not going to be linear. If you plotted out some of my cuts you will see that there are peeks and valleys, but the overall trend is down. You really just need patience.
I would highly suggest listening to MrM as I have known him for some time, and he as always given me solid advice....
Question - have you readjusted your calories down to reflect your 20 pound loss?
Do you think I need to adjust them down from 1800 calories a day? This amount is already 50% or so of my TDEE and I lift heavy 3-4 times a week. For what it's worth I'm 6' and roughly 28% body fat currently.
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KJensen - have you considered doing some cardio? I didn't see that as part of your regimen. It could mix things up and trigger hurdling the plateau you are experiencing.0
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OP - I do not think that you would benefit from a re-feed. You have been dieting for seven weeks and lost 20 pounds, which is great progress. Eventually, you are going to have these little blips where you lose nothing, and then start losing again.
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Weight loss is not going to be linear. If you plotted out some of my cuts you will see that there are peeks and valleys, but the overall trend is down. You really just need patience.
I would highly suggest listening to MrM as I have known him for some time, and he as always given me solid advice....
Question - have you readjusted your calories down to reflect your 20 pound loss?
Do you think I need to adjust them down from 1800 calories a day? This amount is already 50% or so of my TDEE and I lift heavy 3-4 times a week. For what it's worth I'm 6' and roughly 28% body fat currently.
I'd start with the basics...
1) make sure you're logging as accurately and completely as possible. Everything gets weighed/measured, and everything gets logged. Condiments, the last 2 bites of little Johnny's pizza that didn't finish, those couple of crackers you grabbed on your way out the door - everything. Evaluate in 4-6 weeks.
2) tweak your macros a bit. Drop carbs, increase fat/protein without changing overall cals. Evaluate in 4-6 weeks.0 -
justacceptthisemail wrote: »KJensen - have you considered doing some cardio? I didn't see that as part of your regimen. It could mix things up and trigger hurdling the plateau you are experiencing.
I don't do steady-state cardio, but do interval training for 20-30 minutes twice weekly. I have read that interval training keeps metabolism higher post-running and also helps to preserve lean muscle mass compared to steady-state, but maybe should swap one of the interval days for a steady-state day.0 -
OP - I do not think that you would benefit from a re-feed. You have been dieting for seven weeks and lost 20 pounds, which is great progress. Eventually, you are going to have these little blips where you lose nothing, and then start losing again.
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Weight loss is not going to be linear. If you plotted out some of my cuts you will see that there are peeks and valleys, but the overall trend is down. You really just need patience.
I would highly suggest listening to MrM as I have known him for some time, and he as always given me solid advice....
Question - have you readjusted your calories down to reflect your 20 pound loss?
Do you think I need to adjust them down from 1800 calories a day? This amount is already 50% or so of my TDEE and I lift heavy 3-4 times a week. For what it's worth I'm 6' and roughly 28% body fat currently.
OK - then keep them at 1800 ...
I think you just need to keep doing what you are doing..
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Great work on the losses! I gotta say you are in no way at a plateau. You lost 1.5 lb in the last week. That is fantastic! Over the past 15 days, you have lost 4 lb. There are a lot of people on here who would actually call that too fast, so there is no way you are plateauing.
I think you are doing a great job. Don't get in your head about this too much; it will only get in your way. Keep telling yourself that you are doing the right things and it will work, even when you get a bit down.0 -
justacceptthisemail wrote: »KJensen - have you considered doing some cardio? I didn't see that as part of your regimen. It could mix things up and trigger hurdling the plateau you are experiencing.OP - I do not think that you would benefit from a re-feed. You have been dieting for seven weeks and lost 20 pounds, which is great progress. Eventually, you are going to have these little blips where you lose nothing, and then start losing again.
-
Weight loss is not going to be linear. If you plotted out some of my cuts you will see that there are peeks and valleys, but the overall trend is down. You really just need patience.
I would highly suggest listening to MrM as I have known him for some time, and he as always given me solid advice....
Question - have you readjusted your calories down to reflect your 20 pound loss?
Do you think I need to adjust them down from 1800 calories a day? This amount is already 50% or so of my TDEE and I lift heavy 3-4 times a week. For what it's worth I'm 6' and roughly 28% body fat currently.
I'd start with the basics...
1) make sure you're logging as accurately and completely as possible. Everything gets weighed/measured, and everything gets logged. Condiments, the last 2 bites of little Johnny's pizza that didn't finish, those couple of crackers you grabbed on your way out the door - everything. Evaluate in 4-6 weeks.
2) tweak your macros a bit. Drop carbs, increase fat/protein without changing overall cals. Evaluate in 4-6 weeks.
1) I definitely am logging as accurate as possible. All solids are weighed and liquids measured. I do include condiments and supplements, you will find teaspoons of siracha and mustard scattered through my diary.
2) Current macros are below. Do you think it would be beneficial to drop carbs lower?
35% Protein- 166g
40% Fat- 84g
25% Carb - 119g
40g Fiber
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justacceptthisemail wrote: »KJensen - have you considered doing some cardio? I didn't see that as part of your regimen. It could mix things up and trigger hurdling the plateau you are experiencing.OP - I do not think that you would benefit from a re-feed. You have been dieting for seven weeks and lost 20 pounds, which is great progress. Eventually, you are going to have these little blips where you lose nothing, and then start losing again.
-
Weight loss is not going to be linear. If you plotted out some of my cuts you will see that there are peeks and valleys, but the overall trend is down. You really just need patience.
I would highly suggest listening to MrM as I have known him for some time, and he as always given me solid advice....
Question - have you readjusted your calories down to reflect your 20 pound loss?
Do you think I need to adjust them down from 1800 calories a day? This amount is already 50% or so of my TDEE and I lift heavy 3-4 times a week. For what it's worth I'm 6' and roughly 28% body fat currently.
I'd start with the basics...
1) make sure you're logging as accurately and completely as possible. Everything gets weighed/measured, and everything gets logged. Condiments, the last 2 bites of little Johnny's pizza that didn't finish, those couple of crackers you grabbed on your way out the door - everything. Evaluate in 4-6 weeks.
2) tweak your macros a bit. Drop carbs, increase fat/protein without changing overall cals. Evaluate in 4-6 weeks.
1) I definitely am logging as accurate as possible. All solids are weighed and liquids measured. I do include condiments and supplements, you will find teaspoons of siracha and mustard scattered through my diary.
2) Current macros are below. Do you think it would be beneficial to drop carbs lower?
35% Protein- 166g
40% Fat- 84g
25% Carb - 119g
40g Fiber
if you have lost 1.5 pounds in the past week and half then just keep doing what you are doing.
with your training regimen if you drop carbs any lower your performance is going to suffer...IMO0 -
Wow...you're not even stalled ...you haven't even stopped losing weight ...I am so confused and slightly bemused as to what the feckin' feck is the problem
Weight loss is not linear ...yadda yadda
You clearly have a long way to go, perhaps try relaxing into a little ...weight loss isn't linear.0 -
Based on everything you've said, I'd adjust your expectations a bit, then continue on whit what you're doing and stop complaining.Just was hoping to get some general feedback on what the MFP community thinks about my eating below BMR, increasing my calories to lose more weight, or just continuing on with what I'm doing and stop complaining.but am asking for advie to help it not slow since the calories in and calories out equations have not changed and should result in 2+lbs loss per week.- It will slow, then it will speed up, then it will slow. It's just the way it works.
- 2+lbs per week is just based on the math, which is based on a whole bunch of assumptions and estimates. Don't get attached to what some formula tells you is supposed to happen.
- 2+lbs per week is going to be REALLY hard to maintain long term, especially if overall health, performance, mood, etc are taking into consideration.
Macros are pretty reasonable. I wouldn't make any real changes there.2) Current macros are below. Do you think it would be beneficial to drop carbs lower?
35% Protein- 166g
40% Fat- 84g
25% Carb - 119g
40g Fiber
I really think it just comes down to your expectations. Expect slow. Expect inconsistent. Expect long term. The first couple of weeks are rarely indicative of what the next 8 months will bring.0 -
Based on everything you've said, I'd adjust your expectations a bit, then continue on whit what you're doing and stop complaining.Just was hoping to get some general feedback on what the MFP community thinks about my eating below BMR, increasing my calories to lose more weight, or just continuing on with what I'm doing and stop complaining.but am asking for advie to help it not slow since the calories in and calories out equations have not changed and should result in 2+lbs loss per week.- It will slow, then it will speed up, then it will slow. It's just the way it works.
- 2+lbs per week is just based on the math, which is based on a whole bunch of assumptions and estimates. Don't get attached to what some formula tells you is supposed to happen.
- 2+lbs per week is going to be REALLY hard to maintain long term, especially if overall health, performance, mood, etc are taking into consideration.
Macros are pretty reasonable. I wouldn't make any real changes there.
1) I definitely am logging as accurate as possible. All solids are weighed and liquids measured. I do include condiments and supplements, you will find teaspoons of siracha and mustard scattered through my diary.
2) Current macros are below. Do you think it would be beneficial to drop carbs lower?
35% Protein- 166g
40% Fat- 84g
25% Carb - 119g
40g Fiber
Thank you for the very clear and concise summary.0 -
BMR is telling you what your body would be requiring to be feed if you were a vegetable, laying in bed, being feed through a tube. 100% vegetable, to maintain it's weight.
TDEE is factoring that plus your activity.
BMR is for your current weight. If you are looking to lose lets say 100 lbs, we would expect and sort of expect. The calculators don't do all the work for you, you need to work the proper numbers out yourself.
There is no set in stone amount of how large the deficit can be. There are many ways to adapt and ensure you do what you need in order to get the right nutrition and preserve LBM. That is why you see some people that try (most unsuccessfully) PSMF, it is designed to be a large deficit for a certain amount of time, it's brutal but it doesn't neglect what your body actually needs.
Thank you for all the advice and helping me out @MrM27. I believe have a good understanding of BMR and TDEE. The only problem I have is without using the calculators, how do I determine what my BMR/TDEE is, or exactly how should I set my daily calories? I understand it should be between .8 and 1 gram protein per pound of lbm and , which is why my protein is where it is. I also was trying to keep carbs to below 100g net. So after that I just need to determine how much fat to eat to make up the rest of the calories. Is it fine to keep this as low as possible (i.e. 1800) as long as I am not hungry throughout the day? I eat every 2 hours, not because I think it increases metabolism/insulin sensitivity, but because it makes it so I never feel hungry.
240 @ ~28% body fat
172 lbm
166g protein (.97g per lbm)
119g carbs - 40g fiber = ~79g
84g fat (.49g per lbm)0 -
Didn't read all the posts, but a couple of observations: First, you don't lose weight by eating more, unless you increase your exercise by more than what you increase your consumption. Second, you don't lose weight because fat cells suddenly decide to release water. Fat cells don't hold water, for the very simple fact that oil and water don't mix.0
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refeed day is like the dumbest idea ever. How do you lose weight eating double your BMR? Lets cut into my deficit and I will lose more weight. That's not how this works.0
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BMR is telling you what your body would be requiring to be feed if you were a vegetable, laying in bed, being feed through a tube. 100% vegetable, to maintain it's weight.
TDEE is factoring that plus your activity.
BMR is for your current weight. If you are looking to lose lets say 100 lbs, we would expect and sort of expect. The calculators don't do all the work for you, you need to work the proper numbers out yourself.
There is no set in stone amount of how large the deficit can be. There are many ways to adapt and ensure you do what you need in order to get the right nutrition and preserve LBM. That is why you see some people that try (most unsuccessfully) PSMF, it is designed to be a large deficit for a certain amount of time, it's brutal but it doesn't neglect what your body actually needs.
Thank you for all the advice and helping me out @MrM27. I believe have a good understanding of BMR and TDEE. The only problem I have is without using the calculators, how do I determine what my BMR/TDEE is, or exactly how should I set my daily calories? I understand it should be between .8 and 1 gram protein per pound of lbm and , which is why my protein is where it is. I also was trying to keep carbs to below 100g net. So after that I just need to determine how much fat to eat to make up the rest of the calories. Is it fine to keep this as low as possible (i.e. 1800) as long as I am not hungry throughout the day? I eat every 2 hours, not because I think it increases metabolism/insulin sensitivity, but because it makes it so I never feel hungry.
240 @ ~28% body fat
172 lbm
166g protein (.97g per lbm)
119g carbs - 40g fiber = ~79g
84g fat (.49g per lbm)
OP - you determine your TDEE through trial and error and by watching the data, which you seem to be doing a good job of tracking. For me, it took about a year to figure out my maintenance, cutting, and gaining range. And I say "range" because it will always fluctuate. Example - before my bulk my maintenance calories were about 2550 to 2650; after gaining ten pounds my maintenance level went up to about 2700 to 2800 so now I can cut on 2250 and lose about a pound per week. Previous to my bulk, my cutting range for one pound per week would of been closer to 2150 ...
so you are always going to have a range where you gain/lose/maintain...it just takes a while to figure out what those are...
I think you are doing great and just need to keep doing what you are doing and be patient..
you don't get fat overnight and you don't get shredded overnight either...0
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