steroid use ...
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Middle aged guys with money to burn are flocking to "anti-aging" doctors for full-course regimens of not just steroids but old-school hormones, HGH and even at times EPO. This is all doctor-supervised stuff and the fully monty typically runs about $1k/month (can vary widely).
It's a brave new world....this **** is everywhere, from gym rats to firefighters.0 -
Only once sensible people get in the middle.Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Regarding TRT in organized sports, limits could be established to prevent TRT from being abused. For instance, if the average total T for a 33 year old man is 664 dcl's then that could be the guideline for 33-year old male athletes, and anything above that would be grounds for banning from competition.
then someone would abuse an AI to get their free t in a more optimal position.
You're also advocating for a sporting body to essentially be defining what theraputic use is, trumping the work, knowledge, and experience of the actual physician guiding the process.
I see no problems coming from that.
Then establish minimums for what is determined to be hypgonadic and grounds for therapy. If an athlete had diabetes would they be eliminated from play because they take insulin? Insulin is used to improve performance by some. If an athlete was suffering from any ailment treatable by medicine would they be refused that treatment? No. Hypogonadism is a legit issue and trust me it absolutely *kitten* with every aspect of your body physically and mentally. Just because somebody plays a sport should not prevent them from getting the therapy they need. I'm sure there is a sensible solution somewhere in the middle.
You don't need to tell me about hypogonadism, I'm living it, and it sucks. Oh, and since there aren't reasonable people in these sport orgs, I can't compete in any of my regional powerlifting competitions (USAPL) or any of the local olympic style competitions. So, that PL comp in May I really wanted to do and was training for, well... since there is NO tue for trt, and there is random testing for 10% of the lifters, I can't do it. Even though my testosterone level is still at the bottom end of the range. really makes me want to just say, "Yeah? Screw you hippy." Then double my t dosages (my doc would love that.) until then and compete anyway.
There's far too much hand wringing about "Ermagerds, but it might give them too much testosterone." Without enough looking at the realities of HRT, and steroid usage. Eh, whatever.0 -
Here's a classic article by an amateur athlete who DIY'ed his way through the whole PED menu.
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/Drug-Test.html
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Anavar is pretty much an open secret among gym-goers in my area (I'm from the UK) Most users in my area now seem to go for cutting agents for that shredded look, rather than bulking on Test-E and Dbol (I've observed that it tends to be doormen who use the bulking 'roids in the gyms that I've trained at.)
And that is basically where inexperience lies. Why would you take anavar on its own? Yes it works, but even a tiny amount of test pinned a long side makes it a considerably more potent drug. The problem with England I've found is a lot of people will use orals without pinning.
Take dbol, gain a stone in a month, lose most when you come off. Waste of time and money.
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Isn't that stuff ridiculously expensive?0
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I'm a little surprised how civil this conversation has remained...0
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
yeah, I have my doc working with me on it, but it feels like I'm having to negotiate with him on certain things, like my free t is 5.4 pg/mL, and my total t is 449 ng/dL, if free t is supposed to be between 2-4% of total, I'm not there. however, he doesn't have me on an AI, or hcg, so at worst I'll have to go black market for that.0 -
Believe me - I am too!! I wasn't sure whether I wanted to hit send (at 3:40 a.m.). It has gone way out of my league in terms of understanding what you guys are talking about ... however, I appreciate that you guys are offering different and honest perspectives. I won't get this from his health textbook, lol!!0 -
Believe me - I am too!! I wasn't sure whether I wanted to hit send (at 3:40 a.m.). It has gone way out of my league in terms of understanding what you guys are talking about ... however, I appreciate that you guys are offering different and honest perspectives. I won't get this from his health textbook, lol!!
And that right there is my biggest beef with PED hysteria. We have some of the finest physical specimens humanity has ever produced willing to hack the crap out of their systems - and instead of doing it in a controlled, documentable way so that everybody can learn from it, we drive it underground where much of the knowledge is lost.
It's stupid.
Legalize all of it.
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
yeah, I have my doc working with me on it, but it feels like I'm having to negotiate with him on certain things, like my free t is 5.4 pg/mL, and my total t is 449 ng/dL, if free t is supposed to be between 2-4% of total, I'm not there. however, he doesn't have me on an AI, or hcg, so at worst I'll have to go black market for that.
Yeah, I feel your pain. My first doc had me on a bi-weekly dosage; the life of Test is approx 8-days, so it should be obvious that bi-weekly dosage is not effective; I was always symptomatic again before my 2nd shot. Then once I found the 2nd doctor who had me on a weekly dosage I still felt symptomatic and after some research I found that when T is elevated Estrogen also elevates and can cause you to feel symptoms of hypogonadism. I went to him and he refused to have my E checked. Doctor 3 which is actually at a clinic specific for this issue agree with me and had everything checked, my E was 72. I've been on Test, Anastrozol, and HCG ever since.0 -
Believe me - I am too!! I wasn't sure whether I wanted to hit send (at 3:40 a.m.). It has gone way out of my league in terms of understanding what you guys are talking about ... however, I appreciate that you guys are offering different and honest perspectives. I won't get this from his health textbook, lol!!
And that right there is my biggest beef with PED hysteria. We have some of the finest physical specimens humanity has ever produced willing to hack the crap out of their systems - and instead of doing it in a controlled, documentable way so that everybody can learn from it, we drive it underground where much of the knowledge is lost.
It's stupid.
Legalize all of it.
I don't know where I stand on all of this (other than that I don't want my son using them as he prepares for high school and college athletics), but I will say that having trained to teach public middle schoolers how to write research papers, one of the top five typical topics to offer the kids in 6th grade is steroid use. There were maybe three little books in my library at the time (five years ago), and as you would expect, they explained the science (at a 6th grade level) and then the dangers. Very one-sided. As a mother, I might want them to be, however.0 -
That's not a research paper, then, it's just propaganda.
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And that right there is my biggest beef with PED hysteria. We have some of the finest physical specimens humanity has ever produced willing to hack the crap out of their systems - and instead of doing it in a controlled, documentable way so that everybody can learn from it, we drive it underground where much of the knowledge is lost.
It's stupid.
Legalize all of it.
Great statement!
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Believe me - I am too!! I wasn't sure whether I wanted to hit send (at 3:40 a.m.). It has gone way out of my league in terms of understanding what you guys are talking about ... however, I appreciate that you guys are offering different and honest perspectives. I won't get this from his health textbook, lol!!
And that right there is my biggest beef with PED hysteria. We have some of the finest physical specimens humanity has ever produced willing to hack the crap out of their systems - and instead of doing it in a controlled, documentable way so that everybody can learn from it, we drive it underground where much of the knowledge is lost.
It's stupid.
Legalize all of it.
I don't know where I stand on all of this (other than that I don't want my son using them as he prepares for high school and college athletics), but I will say that having trained to teach public middle schoolers how to write research papers, one of the top five typical topics to offer the kids in 6th grade is steroid use. There were maybe three little books in my library at the time (five years ago), and as you would expect, they explained the science (at a 6th grade level) and then the dangers. Very one-sided. As a mother, I might want them to be, however.
The only thing I would be concerned about with a teenager is it's affect on androgenous test production once he is off but I honestly don't know the research behind that. Right now I'm dealing with a reproductive issue because of being on TRT and it's making it difficult for my wife and I to conceive. It's something to be considerate of when doing it at a young age.
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Believe me - I am too!! I wasn't sure whether I wanted to hit send (at 3:40 a.m.). It has gone way out of my league in terms of understanding what you guys are talking about ... however, I appreciate that you guys are offering different and honest perspectives. I won't get this from his health textbook, lol!!
And that right there is my biggest beef with PED hysteria. We have some of the finest physical specimens humanity has ever produced willing to hack the crap out of their systems - and instead of doing it in a controlled, documentable way so that everybody can learn from it, we drive it underground where much of the knowledge is lost.
It's stupid.
Legalize all of it.
Couldn't have said it better.
Just to note, even if PED's never existed the genetic elite people in their respective sports would still be the elite in their sports. A lot of recreational bodybuilders take steroids and they all don't look like Arnold or Ronnie0
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