Flexible Dieters (80/20, IIFYM) vs. Clean Eaters
Replies
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My diet covers all those scenarios, so I'm good to go.0
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stevencloser wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »HotPotato22 wrote: »I work really hard at "clean" eating. For me, that's separate from losing weight. I turned 40 this year, and I'm only 16 years younger than when my mother died. I don't want to lose weight by eating sugary snacks, cereals, treats and processed foods. What good is being thin if you're riddled with mood disorders, imbalances, and disease? I love knowing that I'm nourishing my body and giving it what it needs. My personal choice is to ensure that everything I consume gives me good nourishment in some way. I'm not perfect by any means, but eating whole foods is super important to me. It might not be that important to someone else -- to someone else, it might be all about the weight loss. But for me, it's so much more than that. It's becoming healthy in every sense of the word.
I agree with you, just because you CAN lose weight eating taco bell every day for lunch doesn't mean you should. I put as many fruits, vegetables, and whole foods in my body as possible because it is what is best for my body and mind, not just my weight.
That's the extreme of IIFYM though. IDK who would recommend putting Taco Bell in their system everyday for lunch... I certainly wouldn't. Veggies and fruits are essential in any diet, IMO. Most people who get good results will adhere to consuming a good amount of those nutrients. We can agree there!
They are essential, but as we see, not everyone, not even on this thread, eats them. I know folks think I harp on vegetables, and perhaps I do. But I do wonder about folks' actual health.
The way people tend to talk about fruits and veggies makes it sound like you're supposed to eat like a pound of salad every day and multiple fruits but that's just my impression.
Data shows that the 5 a day rule is a good one. More is unlikely to hurt, but more has failed to be linked to decreased risk of disease. 5 a day has though.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »HotPotato22 wrote: »I work really hard at "clean" eating. For me, that's separate from losing weight. I turned 40 this year, and I'm only 16 years younger than when my mother died. I don't want to lose weight by eating sugary snacks, cereals, treats and processed foods. What good is being thin if you're riddled with mood disorders, imbalances, and disease? I love knowing that I'm nourishing my body and giving it what it needs. My personal choice is to ensure that everything I consume gives me good nourishment in some way. I'm not perfect by any means, but eating whole foods is super important to me. It might not be that important to someone else -- to someone else, it might be all about the weight loss. But for me, it's so much more than that. It's becoming healthy in every sense of the word.
I agree with you, just because you CAN lose weight eating taco bell every day for lunch doesn't mean you should. I put as many fruits, vegetables, and whole foods in my body as possible because it is what is best for my body and mind, not just my weight.
That's the extreme of IIFYM though. IDK who would recommend putting Taco Bell in their system everyday for lunch... I certainly wouldn't. Veggies and fruits are essential in any diet, IMO. Most people who get good results will adhere to consuming a good amount of those nutrients. We can agree there!
They are essential, but as we see, not everyone, not even on this thread, eats them. I know folks think I harp on vegetables, and perhaps I do. But I do wonder about folks' actual health.
The way people tend to talk about fruits and veggies makes it sound like you're supposed to eat like a pound of salad every day and multiple fruits but that's just my impression.
A pound of veggies a day isn't unreasonable. My lunch is a 3/4 lb bag of frozen medley. And all the veggies in my chili, smoothie, etc. Plus a little fruit. Probably 1.5lbs (ETA: total--not just for fruit, lol). And it's winter, so availability is sparse for me right now.
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LolBroScience wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »HotPotato22 wrote: »I work really hard at "clean" eating. For me, that's separate from losing weight. I turned 40 this year, and I'm only 16 years younger than when my mother died. I don't want to lose weight by eating sugary snacks, cereals, treats and processed foods. What good is being thin if you're riddled with mood disorders, imbalances, and disease? I love knowing that I'm nourishing my body and giving it what it needs. My personal choice is to ensure that everything I consume gives me good nourishment in some way. I'm not perfect by any means, but eating whole foods is super important to me. It might not be that important to someone else -- to someone else, it might be all about the weight loss. But for me, it's so much more than that. It's becoming healthy in every sense of the word.
I agree with you, just because you CAN lose weight eating taco bell every day for lunch doesn't mean you should. I put as many fruits, vegetables, and whole foods in my body as possible because it is what is best for my body and mind, not just my weight.
That's the extreme of IIFYM though. IDK who would recommend putting Taco Bell in their system everyday for lunch... I certainly wouldn't. Veggies and fruits are essential in any diet, IMO. Most people who get good results will adhere to consuming a good amount of those nutrients. We can agree there!
They are essential, but as we see, not everyone, not even on this thread, eats them. I know folks think I harp on vegetables, and perhaps I do. But I do wonder about folks' actual health.
Health is something not all flexible dieters are concerned about. The cool thing about flexible dieting, though, is that you don't necessarily have to follow what everyone else suggests depending on your specific goals. It's proven time and time again that if you hit your macro nutrients and calorie goals, your body composition will follow suit. Micronutrients play a large role in the speed and efficiency of the process though, and IS commonly left out of the discussion. So, I'm glad you brought that point to the forefront. Kudos! However, going back to just the basics of macros and calories is why it's called flexible dieting... bc you CAN achieve good physique and ultimately put whatever you want in your body to fit your needs/wants/desires, as long as you're hitting the basics.
Bolded is key... IIFYM spawned on bodybuilding.com as a result of individuals disregarding or eliminating certain foods or food groups while cutting and/or prepping for a show because they were under the impression that it would impact physique to a high degree. So, from a body composition standpoint (excluding those with medical conditions) and holding cals/macros consistent, it will make minimal or no difference at all. One would be wise however, to get the the vast majority of their intake from micronutrient dense food sources ESPECIALLY if you are concerned with your overall health.
So IIFYM as a guideline is as wide open as the individual following it chooses to make it. But, as responsible people on an internet message board trying to offer responsible help/advise, we don't recommend people take it to an extreme, but rather keep overall nutrition/health in mind, even if it's not strictly required by the letter of the law of IIFYM.
Is that right?0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »HotPotato22 wrote: »I work really hard at "clean" eating. For me, that's separate from losing weight. I turned 40 this year, and I'm only 16 years younger than when my mother died. I don't want to lose weight by eating sugary snacks, cereals, treats and processed foods. What good is being thin if you're riddled with mood disorders, imbalances, and disease? I love knowing that I'm nourishing my body and giving it what it needs. My personal choice is to ensure that everything I consume gives me good nourishment in some way. I'm not perfect by any means, but eating whole foods is super important to me. It might not be that important to someone else -- to someone else, it might be all about the weight loss. But for me, it's so much more than that. It's becoming healthy in every sense of the word.
I agree with you, just because you CAN lose weight eating taco bell every day for lunch doesn't mean you should. I put as many fruits, vegetables, and whole foods in my body as possible because it is what is best for my body and mind, not just my weight.
That's the extreme of IIFYM though. IDK who would recommend putting Taco Bell in their system everyday for lunch... I certainly wouldn't. Veggies and fruits are essential in any diet, IMO. Most people who get good results will adhere to consuming a good amount of those nutrients. We can agree there!
They are essential, but as we see, not everyone, not even on this thread, eats them. I know folks think I harp on vegetables, and perhaps I do. But I do wonder about folks' actual health.
Of course not everyone eats them. Plenty of people who claim to "eat clean" don't eat them either--they use "clean" as a way to substitute not eating bread or some such for real understandings of what nutrition would require. At least someone who simply says he isn't interested in eating veggies isn't claiming to be eating better than others because of some silliness like that.
The question is whether anyone is recommending that people not eat them--is anyone saying that it's advisable to eat cake at every meal or KFC or whatever the straw man of the day is?
I think I know what a balanced nutritious diet is (although there are going to be debates on plenty of questions on which I think reasonable people can disagree). I don't think every day in my diary reflects my own ideals, although I try most of the time--things happen. This is one reason I don't claim to live up to standards I don't and find it puzzling when people do that (the "I never eat processed foods" crowd). But I certainly recommend that people eat a balanced nutritious diet for health purposes, and don't think anyone is advising otherwise.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »HotPotato22 wrote: »I work really hard at "clean" eating. For me, that's separate from losing weight. I turned 40 this year, and I'm only 16 years younger than when my mother died. I don't want to lose weight by eating sugary snacks, cereals, treats and processed foods. What good is being thin if you're riddled with mood disorders, imbalances, and disease? I love knowing that I'm nourishing my body and giving it what it needs. My personal choice is to ensure that everything I consume gives me good nourishment in some way. I'm not perfect by any means, but eating whole foods is super important to me. It might not be that important to someone else -- to someone else, it might be all about the weight loss. But for me, it's so much more than that. It's becoming healthy in every sense of the word.
I agree with you, just because you CAN lose weight eating taco bell every day for lunch doesn't mean you should. I put as many fruits, vegetables, and whole foods in my body as possible because it is what is best for my body and mind, not just my weight.
That's the extreme of IIFYM though. IDK who would recommend putting Taco Bell in their system everyday for lunch... I certainly wouldn't. Veggies and fruits are essential in any diet, IMO. Most people who get good results will adhere to consuming a good amount of those nutrients. We can agree there!
They are essential, but as we see, not everyone, not even on this thread, eats them. I know folks think I harp on vegetables, and perhaps I do. But I do wonder about folks' actual health.
Health is something not all flexible dieters are concerned about. The cool thing about flexible dieting, though, is that you don't necessarily have to follow what everyone else suggests depending on your specific goals. It's proven time and time again that if you hit your macro nutrients and calorie goals, your body composition will follow suit. Micronutrients play a large role in the speed and efficiency of the process though, and IS commonly left out of the discussion. So, I'm glad you brought that point to the forefront. Kudos! However, going back to just the basics of macros and calories is why it's called flexible dieting... bc you CAN achieve good physique and ultimately put whatever you want in your body to fit your needs/wants/desires, as long as you're hitting the basics.
Bolded is key... IIFYM spawned on bodybuilding.com as a result of individuals disregarding or eliminating certain foods or food groups while cutting and/or prepping for a show because they were under the impression that it would impact physique to a high degree. So, from a body composition standpoint (excluding those with medical conditions) and holding cals/macros consistent, it will make minimal or no difference at all. One would be wise however, to get the the vast majority of their intake from micronutrient dense food sources ESPECIALLY if you are concerned with your overall health.
So IIFYM as a guideline is as wide open as the individual following it chooses to make it. But, as responsible people on an internet message board trying to offer responsible help/advise, we don't recommend people take it to an extreme, but rather keep overall nutrition/health in mind, even if it's not strictly required by the letter of the law of IIFYM.
Is that right?
That would be my recommendation, but I can't speak for others.0 -
As a weight loss maintainer, I say this- I didnt want to start anything I wasnt going to keep up with. I generally like my diet to model the old food guide pyramid/plate with lots of grains/fruit/veg/ with a few servings of calcium rich foods and protein rich foods eat day.
I also like to eat "junk" food. I enjoy cookies,crackers, brownies, velveeta mac and cheese, jug wine, chips,canned soup and fast food. I make choices with those foods (smaller servings, modified orders,decreased frequency) to make them fit my overall day/week/life.
And just to prove I am super not perfect- I am a recovering binge eater. If i am really stressed (this month has been a sh*tstorm like no other) I tend to eat my feelings. while this is a behavior I am working on, its something I have to factor into my weight maintenance strategy.
so i guess that makes me a flexible dieter? I make sure to get my produce/protien/grains/fiber, but I dont think high calorie/nutrient sparse food is necessarily verboten.0 -
They don't have very different definitions for me. I'm not that big and don't have enough wiggle room to be able to fit in things while cutting that I get to eat while bulking. It might explain why I bulked then stayed in maintenance for another full year - I like pizza a lot, but it doesn't fit well in my macros when I cut; ditto beer. Now that I'm starting a cut, I have to cut things from my diet, or I just get skinny instead of cut. Did I say cut enough? I hate cutting.
What fits my macros may not fit someone else's.0 -
If taken to an extreme then a person could be consuming more calorie dense foods that prevent them from hitting some macro and or micro requirements. Originally it was for body builders that felt guilty for consuming products that were deemed undesirables.LolBroScience wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »HotPotato22 wrote: »I work really hard at "clean" eating. For me, that's separate from losing weight. I turned 40 this year, and I'm only 16 years younger than when my mother died. I don't want to lose weight by eating sugary snacks, cereals, treats and processed foods. What good is being thin if you're riddled with mood disorders, imbalances, and disease? I love knowing that I'm nourishing my body and giving it what it needs. My personal choice is to ensure that everything I consume gives me good nourishment in some way. I'm not perfect by any means, but eating whole foods is super important to me. It might not be that important to someone else -- to someone else, it might be all about the weight loss. But for me, it's so much more than that. It's becoming healthy in every sense of the word.
I agree with you, just because you CAN lose weight eating taco bell every day for lunch doesn't mean you should. I put as many fruits, vegetables, and whole foods in my body as possible because it is what is best for my body and mind, not just my weight.
That's the extreme of IIFYM though. IDK who would recommend putting Taco Bell in their system everyday for lunch... I certainly wouldn't. Veggies and fruits are essential in any diet, IMO. Most people who get good results will adhere to consuming a good amount of those nutrients. We can agree there!
They are essential, but as we see, not everyone, not even on this thread, eats them. I know folks think I harp on vegetables, and perhaps I do. But I do wonder about folks' actual health.
Health is something not all flexible dieters are concerned about. The cool thing about flexible dieting, though, is that you don't necessarily have to follow what everyone else suggests depending on your specific goals. It's proven time and time again that if you hit your macro nutrients and calorie goals, your body composition will follow suit. Micronutrients play a large role in the speed and efficiency of the process though, and IS commonly left out of the discussion. So, I'm glad you brought that point to the forefront. Kudos! However, going back to just the basics of macros and calories is why it's called flexible dieting... bc you CAN achieve good physique and ultimately put whatever you want in your body to fit your needs/wants/desires, as long as you're hitting the basics.
Bolded is key... IIFYM spawned on bodybuilding.com as a result of individuals disregarding or eliminating certain foods or food groups while cutting and/or prepping for a show because they were under the impression that it would impact physique to a high degree. So, from a body composition standpoint (excluding those with medical conditions) and holding cals/macros consistent, it will make minimal or no difference at all. One would be wise however, to get the the vast majority of their intake from micronutrient dense food sources ESPECIALLY if you are concerned with your overall health.
So IIFYM as a guideline is as wide open as the individual following it chooses to make it. But, as responsible people on an internet message board trying to offer responsible help/advise, we don't recommend people take it to an extreme, but rather keep overall nutrition/health in mind, even if it's not strictly required by the letter of the law of IIFYM.
Is that right?
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FoxyLifter wrote: »I try to eat the yummiest foods that fit my macros/micros. For example: I have 200 calories for dessert and I haven't hit my protein goal yet. Nutella tastes great, but I'll grab a quest bar. If I really want Nutella, I'll plan ahead for it.
Bad foods = foods that taste gross to me (most salad dressings, deli meats, some raw veggies) and foods I'm allergic to (none so far).
~For weight loss: calories in < calories out.
~For body composition: get enough protein and lift heavy.
~For overall health: get enough fat, micronutrients, water, rest, maybe some cardio.
~For your sanity: don't eliminate a whole group of foods for no medical reason.
Moderation, variation, and no unnecessary elimination!
Trigger foods (food that makes you more hungry after eating it should be temporarily eliminated until portion control can be properly exercised.
I don't "punish" myself for going over my calories. I move on and try again. I'm not perfect, but I'm overall happy.
Love this.
Only thing I cut out is gluten (have celiac), but if you look at my diary, most people would say I'm a "clean eater," I'm sure...but it's all just semantics.
Honestly, what's the difference between eating "clean" with occasional "treats" or "cheats" and eating IIFYM? For me there is no difference.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
Do you have to log micros to know you are meeting your micro needs? I operate based on eating a good variety of foods, especially a good variety of veggies and seasonal fruits (and other fruits when I want them), nuts, various tubers, some other grains and starches, sources of protein and calcium, so on. I figure that's more than most humans have had access to throughout most of history. I've also never shown deficient in anything and and try to get some sunlight when possible.
i check mine with the phone app thingy that tells you how vitamin C you get, iron, etc...
Does it show how much riboflaven or niacin you get?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »HotPotato22 wrote: »I work really hard at "clean" eating. For me, that's separate from losing weight. I turned 40 this year, and I'm only 16 years younger than when my mother died. I don't want to lose weight by eating sugary snacks, cereals, treats and processed foods. What good is being thin if you're riddled with mood disorders, imbalances, and disease? I love knowing that I'm nourishing my body and giving it what it needs. My personal choice is to ensure that everything I consume gives me good nourishment in some way. I'm not perfect by any means, but eating whole foods is super important to me. It might not be that important to someone else -- to someone else, it might be all about the weight loss. But for me, it's so much more than that. It's becoming healthy in every sense of the word.
I agree with you, just because you CAN lose weight eating taco bell every day for lunch doesn't mean you should. I put as many fruits, vegetables, and whole foods in my body as possible because it is what is best for my body and mind, not just my weight.
That's the extreme of IIFYM though. IDK who would recommend putting Taco Bell in their system everyday for lunch... I certainly wouldn't. Veggies and fruits are essential in any diet, IMO. Most people who get good results will adhere to consuming a good amount of those nutrients. We can agree there!
They are essential, but as we see, not everyone, not even on this thread, eats them. I know folks think I harp on vegetables, and perhaps I do. But I do wonder about folks' actual health.
Of course not everyone eats them. Plenty of people who claim to "eat clean" don't eat them either--they use "clean" as a way to substitute not eating bread or some such for real understandings of what nutrition would require.
Plenty of people who claim to eat clean don't eat fruits and vegetables?? No, I don't believe that's true. They may not eat 100% clean, but I doubt there are more than a handful (if that) that don't eat fruits and vegetables.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
Out of, what 45? 50?
you asked where it was, I told you ..
sorry you don't like the answer0 -
chivalryder wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
Do you have to log micros to know you are meeting your micro needs? I operate based on eating a good variety of foods, especially a good variety of veggies and seasonal fruits (and other fruits when I want them), nuts, various tubers, some other grains and starches, sources of protein and calcium, so on. I figure that's more than most humans have had access to throughout most of history. I've also never shown deficient in anything and and try to get some sunlight when possible.
i check mine with the phone app thingy that tells you how vitamin C you get, iron, etc...
Does it show how much riboflaven or niacin you get?
no, it does not ...0 -
chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
did I say ALL five?????
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I do IIFYM. I have done this consistently for 11+ years and haven't gained back any weight I previously lost. I eat whatever I want...20% of the time. I try to eat as unprocessed and natural as possible (lean meats, fruits, veggies, lots of good protein, etc.) 80% of the time. I drink alcohol/wine, I eat chips, I eat wings, burgers, fries...but I don't do it all of the time. And I still have a bikini body that I'm proud of. I do workout hard - 5x a week minimum - so I can afford to splurge when I want to. So for ME - the key is moderation.0
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williams969 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »HotPotato22 wrote: »I work really hard at "clean" eating. For me, that's separate from losing weight. I turned 40 this year, and I'm only 16 years younger than when my mother died. I don't want to lose weight by eating sugary snacks, cereals, treats and processed foods. What good is being thin if you're riddled with mood disorders, imbalances, and disease? I love knowing that I'm nourishing my body and giving it what it needs. My personal choice is to ensure that everything I consume gives me good nourishment in some way. I'm not perfect by any means, but eating whole foods is super important to me. It might not be that important to someone else -- to someone else, it might be all about the weight loss. But for me, it's so much more than that. It's becoming healthy in every sense of the word.
I agree with you, just because you CAN lose weight eating taco bell every day for lunch doesn't mean you should. I put as many fruits, vegetables, and whole foods in my body as possible because it is what is best for my body and mind, not just my weight.
That's the extreme of IIFYM though. IDK who would recommend putting Taco Bell in their system everyday for lunch... I certainly wouldn't. Veggies and fruits are essential in any diet, IMO. Most people who get good results will adhere to consuming a good amount of those nutrients. We can agree there!
They are essential, but as we see, not everyone, not even on this thread, eats them. I know folks think I harp on vegetables, and perhaps I do. But I do wonder about folks' actual health.
The way people tend to talk about fruits and veggies makes it sound like you're supposed to eat like a pound of salad every day and multiple fruits but that's just my impression.
A pound of veggies a day isn't unreasonable. My lunch is a 3/4 lb bag of frozen medley. And all the veggies in my chili, smoothie, etc. Plus a little fruit. Probably 1.5lbs (ETA: total--not just for fruit, lol). And it's winter, so availability is sparse for me right now.
I didn't want to make it sound too outlandish. If I cook I put in veggies too but then you have people saying those don't count because cooking destroys the nutrients.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
Out of, what 45? 50?
you asked where it was, I told you ..
sorry you don't like the answer
ZOOOM0 -
chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
did I say ALL five?????
So the revised answer on every thread should be "if I hit my macros and the 5 micros that MFP counts"0 -
By some accounts there are more than 29 (depending on how fine grained one gets), but yes, we're on the same page.chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
By some accounts there are more than 29 (depending on how fine grained one gets), but yes, we're on the same page.chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
The 29,
Calcium, Vitamin A, Chloride, Vitamin B6, Chromium, Vitamin B12, Copper, Vitamin C, Iodine, Vitamin D, Iron, Vitamin E, Magnesium, Vitamin K, Manganese, Thiamin, Molybdenum, Riboflavin, Phosphorus, Niacin, Potassium, Folate, Selenium, Pantothenic Acid, Sodium, Biotin, Sulfur, Choline, Zinc,
are the micronutrients listed by the USA government DRI. Any more than that, you're getting into more unknown and less studied nutrients that we're not entirely sure we need in order to survive.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
did I say ALL five?????
So the revised answer on every thread should be "if I hit my macros and the 5 micros that MFP counts"
ummm no ...
0 -
chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
By some accounts there are more than 29 (depending on how fine grained one gets), but yes, we're on the same page.chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
The 29,
Calcium, Vitamin A, Chloride, Vitamin B6, Chromium, Vitamin B12, Copper, Vitamin C, Iodine, Vitamin D, Iron, Vitamin E, Magnesium, Vitamin K, Manganese, Thiamin, Molybdenum, Riboflavin, Phosphorus, Niacin, Potassium, Folate, Selenium, Pantothenic Acid, Sodium, Biotin, Sulfur, Choline, Zinc,
are the micronutrients listed by the USA government DRI. Any more than that, you're getting into more unknown and less studied nutrients that we're not entirely sure we need in order to survive.
Iodine would be one I'd be worried about "clean" eaters not getting enough of.
"I only use pure, organic sea salt in all my recipes."
Ok - well don't be mad when I laugh at your goiter.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
By some accounts there are more than 29 (depending on how fine grained one gets), but yes, we're on the same page.chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
The 29,
Calcium, Vitamin A, Chloride, Vitamin B6, Chromium, Vitamin B12, Copper, Vitamin C, Iodine, Vitamin D, Iron, Vitamin E, Magnesium, Vitamin K, Manganese, Thiamin, Molybdenum, Riboflavin, Phosphorus, Niacin, Potassium, Folate, Selenium, Pantothenic Acid, Sodium, Biotin, Sulfur, Choline, Zinc,
are the micronutrients listed by the USA government DRI. Any more than that, you're getting into more unknown and less studied nutrients that we're not entirely sure we need in order to survive.
Iodine would be one I'd be worried about "clean" eaters not getting enough of.
"I only use pure, organic sea salt in all my recipes."
Ok - well don't be mad when I laugh at your goiter.
You can get plenty of iodine from dairy products, such as cottage cheese, milk, and yogurt. You can also get it from turkey, fish, beans, and eggs.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »HotPotato22 wrote: »I work really hard at "clean" eating. For me, that's separate from losing weight. I turned 40 this year, and I'm only 16 years younger than when my mother died. I don't want to lose weight by eating sugary snacks, cereals, treats and processed foods. What good is being thin if you're riddled with mood disorders, imbalances, and disease? I love knowing that I'm nourishing my body and giving it what it needs. My personal choice is to ensure that everything I consume gives me good nourishment in some way. I'm not perfect by any means, but eating whole foods is super important to me. It might not be that important to someone else -- to someone else, it might be all about the weight loss. But for me, it's so much more than that. It's becoming healthy in every sense of the word.
I agree with you, just because you CAN lose weight eating taco bell every day for lunch doesn't mean you should. I put as many fruits, vegetables, and whole foods in my body as possible because it is what is best for my body and mind, not just my weight.
That's the extreme of IIFYM though. IDK who would recommend putting Taco Bell in their system everyday for lunch... I certainly wouldn't. Veggies and fruits are essential in any diet, IMO. Most people who get good results will adhere to consuming a good amount of those nutrients. We can agree there!
They are essential, but as we see, not everyone, not even on this thread, eats them. I know folks think I harp on vegetables, and perhaps I do. But I do wonder about folks' actual health.
Of course not everyone eats them. Plenty of people who claim to "eat clean" don't eat them either--they use "clean" as a way to substitute not eating bread or some such for real understandings of what nutrition would require.
Plenty of people who claim to eat clean don't eat fruits and vegetables?? No, I don't believe that's true. They may not eat 100% clean, but I doubt there are more than a handful (if that) that don't eat fruits and vegetables.
On MFP I think that's true. "Clean" is something that people cling to who find normal healthy eating too dull, often because they know what's required for that--any kindergartner does--and haven't been doing it for some reason already (like they don't like veggies--a ridiculously common issue on MFP forums) and so want some alternative way of claiming they are being health conscious. So they jump onto something that makes it about cutting out foods.
In reality, if you get a balanced diet with a good amount of nutrient-dense foods, you couldn't be eating "Taco Bell" every day or whatever. That people think that's even a possibility suggests to me that they aren't eating what they ideally should be for health.
Also, because this discussion annoys me I often peek at diaries of people who claim to be eating clean (especially those who can't get to some silly number of calories because of it), and I find it to be true, just as I find "non-processed" seems to include a great deal of "processed" foods. What a lot of people seem (strangely) to mean is traditional diet stuff, like low fat. (And on the other hand lots of "clean" people really just mean low carb.) The low fat people might do lots of grains and the low carb people lots of meat and cut out the offending whatever, but that doesn't mean either eats any more veggies than the average MFP user. People who make a big thing here about "eating clean" also seem to me to have REALLY low standards usually and to talk mostly about not eating potatoes from boxes or McD's 24/7, which suggests maybe they were the ones who did that, not the non clean eaters. Half the stuff they get excited about giving up I never knew anyone ate.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
By some accounts there are more than 29 (depending on how fine grained one gets), but yes, we're on the same page.chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
The 29,
Calcium, Vitamin A, Chloride, Vitamin B6, Chromium, Vitamin B12, Copper, Vitamin C, Iodine, Vitamin D, Iron, Vitamin E, Magnesium, Vitamin K, Manganese, Thiamin, Molybdenum, Riboflavin, Phosphorus, Niacin, Potassium, Folate, Selenium, Pantothenic Acid, Sodium, Biotin, Sulfur, Choline, Zinc,
are the micronutrients listed by the USA government DRI. Any more than that, you're getting into more unknown and less studied nutrients that we're not entirely sure we need in order to survive.
Iodine would be one I'd be worried about "clean" eaters not getting enough of.
"I only use pure, organic sea salt in all my recipes."
Ok - well don't be mad when I laugh at your goiter.
You can get plenty of iodine from dairy products, such as cottage cheese, milk, and yogurt. You can also get it from turkey, fish, beans, and eggs.
Hmm, I did not know this.
Well darn. I was looking forward to all the protruding thyroids from the clean eating movement.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
did I say ALL five?????
So the revised answer on every thread should be "if I hit my macros and the 5 micros that MFP counts"
what is your point? so MFP doesn't track all of your micronutrients. so what? if you're really that concerned, i'm sure there are tools out there to use for this. are you criticizing the function of MFP tracking, or are you implying that those who say they are hitting their micro/macro goals are somehow fooling themselves? how do your micros look and how do you track them?0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
By some accounts there are more than 29 (depending on how fine grained one gets), but yes, we're on the same page.chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
The 29,
Calcium, Vitamin A, Chloride, Vitamin B6, Chromium, Vitamin B12, Copper, Vitamin C, Iodine, Vitamin D, Iron, Vitamin E, Magnesium, Vitamin K, Manganese, Thiamin, Molybdenum, Riboflavin, Phosphorus, Niacin, Potassium, Folate, Selenium, Pantothenic Acid, Sodium, Biotin, Sulfur, Choline, Zinc,
are the micronutrients listed by the USA government DRI. Any more than that, you're getting into more unknown and less studied nutrients that we're not entirely sure we need in order to survive.
Iodine would be one I'd be worried about "clean" eaters not getting enough of.
"I only use pure, organic sea salt in all my recipes."
Ok - well don't be mad when I laugh at your goiter.
You can get plenty of iodine from dairy products, such as cottage cheese, milk, and yogurt. You can also get it from turkey, fish, beans, and eggs.
Hmm, I did not know this.
Well darn. I was looking forward to all the protruding thyroids from the clean eating movement.
I'm sorry if I spoiled your fun. If it makes you feel any better, here's a picture of a man riding a rodent, riding a green bird.
0 -
chivalryder wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
By some accounts there are more than 29 (depending on how fine grained one gets), but yes, we're on the same page.chivalryder wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
All of them?Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »sjohnson__1 wrote: »I know where I stand on this - I'm a clean eater if by clean eating you mean cleaning out the inside of my cereal/poptart/icecream containers once I've satisfied my micronutrient needs and have room in my macros. So it's not a personal matter but rather, a discussion topic that I (along with many others, I'm sure) would enjoy partaking in and hearing rational arguments from both POV's.
So...Here's your opportunity to explain your thought process with regards to your nutrition.
GO!
What micros are you logging, and how? Ie how do you know you're meeting your micro needs?
the phone app shows your micros when you click on the pie chart
viatamine C,,A, iron, and calcium…so five of them ...
You do realize there are 29 micronutrients, right? Not 5.
So, how can you tell you're getting all of the micronutrients you need?
The 29,
Calcium, Vitamin A, Chloride, Vitamin B6, Chromium, Vitamin B12, Copper, Vitamin C, Iodine, Vitamin D, Iron, Vitamin E, Magnesium, Vitamin K, Manganese, Thiamin, Molybdenum, Riboflavin, Phosphorus, Niacin, Potassium, Folate, Selenium, Pantothenic Acid, Sodium, Biotin, Sulfur, Choline, Zinc,
are the micronutrients listed by the USA government DRI. Any more than that, you're getting into more unknown and less studied nutrients that we're not entirely sure we need in order to survive.
Iodine would be one I'd be worried about "clean" eaters not getting enough of.
"I only use pure, organic sea salt in all my recipes."
Ok - well don't be mad when I laugh at your goiter.
You can get plenty of iodine from dairy products, such as cottage cheese, milk, and yogurt. You can also get it from turkey, fish, beans, and eggs.
Hmm, I did not know this.
Well darn. I was looking forward to all the protruding thyroids from the clean eating movement.
I'm sorry if I spoiled your fun. If it makes you feel any better, here's a picture of a man riding a rodent, riding a green bird.
This really helps, thank you.0
This discussion has been closed.
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