best core moves. discuss!
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Squats and deadlifts.
Not even close, the Core activation is there but it's low; additional Core training is important.
There is no best Core exercise but some good ones are the RKC Plank mentioned above. Other types of front planks and side planks with the use of hip extension to further work your hip flexors and glutes are good. Palloff Press and Cable Rotations can be good. Back Raises on a 45-degree bench are great for the quadratus lumborum and glutes.
It was a joke, you probably weren't around for it originally
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »juliewatkin wrote: »I used to subscribe to the school of thought that squats and deadlifts were enough. However, every time I throw ab work in consistently, my squats and deadlifts get better.
My go to are:
straight leg raises (toes to ceiling/bar if possible)
bar roll outs
fall outs
dumb bell side bends
suit case carries
front squat static hold (one of my favourites but I don't do it as much. Overload the bar, unrack and just stand straight)
it's strange, isn't it? that if a person is trying to improve in a big lift that involves a lot of core assitance, that doing specific core work will actually improve performance in those big lifts. just like doing arm work improved my pressing and rowing numbers. but MFP is SQUATZ N DEDZ all day, all the time. anything else be broscience.
just like you, i find that my performance improves with regular core works my....everything. and since "core" includes a variety of functionality, just settling on ONE BEST EXERCISE for it is pure folly. i've got a wide variety of things i add in to my workouts to hit various aspects.
Amen to that! There is a lot of easily attainable research out that discusses the benefits of Core training to strength improvement in other exercises, improvement in basic movement function, and injury prevention. But just do squats and deadlifts...
Again...who said that???
Generally speaking it is a constant theme on MFP and it's been mentioned twice in this thread alone I believe.Core activation is low with deadlifts?
If you're interested, you can find EMG studies that do comparisons. When I say it's "low" I'm not saying it's non-existent; I'm saying compared to some good Core exercises it's not even close in-terms of activation.0 -
Nice article by Mike Boyle on the topic:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/anterior_core_training&cr=
Spoiler he has people work up to rollouts using the ab wheel and ultimately bar roll-outs.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »juliewatkin wrote: »I used to subscribe to the school of thought that squats and deadlifts were enough. However, every time I throw ab work in consistently, my squats and deadlifts get better.
My go to are:
straight leg raises (toes to ceiling/bar if possible)
bar roll outs
fall outs
dumb bell side bends
suit case carries
front squat static hold (one of my favourites but I don't do it as much. Overload the bar, unrack and just stand straight)
it's strange, isn't it? that if a person is trying to improve in a big lift that involves a lot of core assitance, that doing specific core work will actually improve performance in those big lifts. just like doing arm work improved my pressing and rowing numbers. but MFP is SQUATZ N DEDZ all day, all the time. anything else be broscience.
just like you, i find that my performance improves with regular core works my....everything. and since "core" includes a variety of functionality, just settling on ONE BEST EXERCISE for it is pure folly. i've got a wide variety of things i add in to my workouts to hit various aspects.
Amen to that! There is a lot of easily attainable research out that discusses the benefits of Core training to strength improvement in other exercises, improvement in basic movement function, and injury prevention. But just do squats and deadlifts...
Again...who said that???
Generally speaking it is a constant theme on MFP and it's been mentioned twice in this thread alone I believe.Core activation is low with deadlifts?
If you're interested, you can find EMG studies that do comparisons. When I say it's "low" I'm not saying it's non-existent; I'm saying compared to some good Core exercises it's not even close in-terms of activation.
When did listing a couple of exercises mean that they are the only ones the poster thought were good? You are making assumptions. I was one of the ones who mentioned them - you may want to read more carefully.
Do you have links to the studies? I am not asking to argue any point just to see what they are comparing specifically.0 -
juliewatkin wrote: »I used to subscribe to the school of thought that squats and deadlifts were enough. However, every time I throw ab work in consistently, my squats and deadlifts get better.
My go to are:
straight leg raises (toes to ceiling/bar if possible)
bar roll outs
fall outs
dumb bell side bends
suit case carries
front squat static hold (one of my favourites but I don't do it as much. Overload the bar, unrack and just stand straight)
it's strange, isn't it? that if a person is trying to improve in a big lift that involves a lot of core assitance, that doing specific core work will actually improve performance in those big lifts. just like doing arm work improved my pressing and rowing numbers. but MFP is SQUATZ N DEDZ all day, all the time. anything else be broscience.
just like you, i find that my performance improves with regular core works my....everything. and since "core" includes a variety of functionality, just settling on ONE BEST EXERCISE for it is pure folly. i've got a wide variety of things i add in to my workouts to hit various aspects.
i like the sound of that front static squat. it should be similar to my single arm OH farmers walk, but with a crapton of more weight. i might try that one this afternoon.
Wait...who said only do deads and squats and everything else is bro?
That was me.
But you didn't actually day that!0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Nice article by Mike Boyle on the topic:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/anterior_core_training&cr=
Spoiler he has people work up to rollouts using the ab wheel and ultimately bar roll-outs.
Have not read the article yet - but roll outs are very good core exercises
- deceptively so.0 -
I was told that dead lifts and planks are the best core moves, not crunches. Discuss!
Ps darlings, youre lovely.
Probably a bit of confusion and misinterpretation going on here. You're going to get more bang for your buck doing compound lifting movements like you described above than having, say, "ab day" or whatever.
This doesn't mean that direct core work isn't important, I think it is...but I save that stuff for the end of my workout because between cleans and snatches and deads and squats and OH press, etc I'm pretty much going to torch my core during my workout...but just so as I'm not leaving anything in the tank I will do some isolation stuff at the end of a workout if I have time...if not, meh...
Some of my favorites...
Feel free to throw in some pushups in there as well.0 -
juliewatkin wrote: »I used to subscribe to the school of thought that squats and deadlifts were enough. However, every time I throw ab work in consistently, my squats and deadlifts get better.
My go to are:
straight leg raises (toes to ceiling/bar if possible)
bar roll outs
fall outs
dumb bell side bends
suit case carries
front squat static hold (one of my favourites but I don't do it as much. Overload the bar, unrack and just stand straight)
it's strange, isn't it? that if a person is trying to improve in a big lift that involves a lot of core assitance, that doing specific core work will actually improve performance in those big lifts. just like doing arm work improved my pressing and rowing numbers. but MFP is SQUATZ N DEDZ all day, all the time. anything else be broscience.
just like you, i find that my performance improves with regular core works my....everything. and since "core" includes a variety of functionality, just settling on ONE BEST EXERCISE for it is pure folly. i've got a wide variety of things i add in to my workouts to hit various aspects.
i like the sound of that front static squat. it should be similar to my single arm OH farmers walk, but with a crapton of more weight. i might try that one this afternoon.
Wait...who said only do deads and squats and everything else is bro?
That was me.
But you didn't actually day that!
But I meant it, brah.0 -
juliewatkin wrote: »I used to subscribe to the school of thought that squats and deadlifts were enough. However, every time I throw ab work in consistently, my squats and deadlifts get better.
My go to are:
straight leg raises (toes to ceiling/bar if possible)
bar roll outs
fall outs
dumb bell side bends
suit case carries
front squat static hold (one of my favourites but I don't do it as much. Overload the bar, unrack and just stand straight)
it's strange, isn't it? that if a person is trying to improve in a big lift that involves a lot of core assitance, that doing specific core work will actually improve performance in those big lifts. just like doing arm work improved my pressing and rowing numbers. but MFP is SQUATZ N DEDZ all day, all the time. anything else be broscience.
just like you, i find that my performance improves with regular core works my....everything. and since "core" includes a variety of functionality, just settling on ONE BEST EXERCISE for it is pure folly. i've got a wide variety of things i add in to my workouts to hit various aspects.
i like the sound of that front static squat. it should be similar to my single arm OH farmers walk, but with a crapton of more weight. i might try that one this afternoon.
Wait...who said only do deads and squats and everything else is bro?
That was me.
But you didn't actually day that!
But I meant it, brah.
Y u quote me before I could fix my typo?0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »juliewatkin wrote: »I used to subscribe to the school of thought that squats and deadlifts were enough. However, every time I throw ab work in consistently, my squats and deadlifts get better.
My go to are:
straight leg raises (toes to ceiling/bar if possible)
bar roll outs
fall outs
dumb bell side bends
suit case carries
front squat static hold (one of my favourites but I don't do it as much. Overload the bar, unrack and just stand straight)
it's strange, isn't it? that if a person is trying to improve in a big lift that involves a lot of core assitance, that doing specific core work will actually improve performance in those big lifts. just like doing arm work improved my pressing and rowing numbers. but MFP is SQUATZ N DEDZ all day, all the time. anything else be broscience.
just like you, i find that my performance improves with regular core works my....everything. and since "core" includes a variety of functionality, just settling on ONE BEST EXERCISE for it is pure folly. i've got a wide variety of things i add in to my workouts to hit various aspects.
Amen to that! There is a lot of easily attainable research out that discusses the benefits of Core training to strength improvement in other exercises, improvement in basic movement function, and injury prevention. But just do squats and deadlifts...
Again...who said that???
Generally speaking it is a constant theme on MFP and it's been mentioned twice in this thread alone I believe.Core activation is low with deadlifts?
If you're interested, you can find EMG studies that do comparisons. When I say it's "low" I'm not saying it's non-existent; I'm saying compared to some good Core exercises it's not even close in-terms of activation.
When did listing a couple of exercises mean that they are the only ones the poster thought were good? You are making assumptions. I was one of the ones who mentioned them - you may want to read more carefully.
Do you have links to the studies? I am not asking to argue any point just to see what they are comparing specifically.
No, unfortunately I don't. I've done a lot of different research for school and I don't keep everything, especially not at work; I am unable to link you into the library anyway. If you're interested PubMed or Google Scholar can probably locate some/ Keywords like Core Training & Injury Prevention, Core Training and Movement, Core Training and Neuromuscular Control, Core Training and Resistance Training to name a few might get you somewhere.0 -
Any kind of plank, I would include:
- the aforementioned RKC plank
- All kinds of roll outs (ab-wheel, med ball, barbell) which are kinds of dynamic planks.
- Push ups and their variations
- I would also include the hard-style swing as a kind of standing plank (when you get to the top of the swing and you're properly engaging the whole core)
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »juliewatkin wrote: »I used to subscribe to the school of thought that squats and deadlifts were enough. However, every time I throw ab work in consistently, my squats and deadlifts get better.
My go to are:
straight leg raises (toes to ceiling/bar if possible)
bar roll outs
fall outs
dumb bell side bends
suit case carries
front squat static hold (one of my favourites but I don't do it as much. Overload the bar, unrack and just stand straight)
it's strange, isn't it? that if a person is trying to improve in a big lift that involves a lot of core assitance, that doing specific core work will actually improve performance in those big lifts. just like doing arm work improved my pressing and rowing numbers. but MFP is SQUATZ N DEDZ all day, all the time. anything else be broscience.
just like you, i find that my performance improves with regular core works my....everything. and since "core" includes a variety of functionality, just settling on ONE BEST EXERCISE for it is pure folly. i've got a wide variety of things i add in to my workouts to hit various aspects.
Amen to that! There is a lot of easily attainable research out that discusses the benefits of Core training to strength improvement in other exercises, improvement in basic movement function, and injury prevention. But just do squats and deadlifts...
Again...who said that???
Generally speaking it is a constant theme on MFP and it's been mentioned twice in this thread alone I believe.Core activation is low with deadlifts?
If you're interested, you can find EMG studies that do comparisons. When I say it's "low" I'm not saying it's non-existent; I'm saying compared to some good Core exercises it's not even close in-terms of activation.
When did listing a couple of exercises mean that they are the only ones the poster thought were good? You are making assumptions. I was one of the ones who mentioned them - you may want to read more carefully.
Do you have links to the studies? I am not asking to argue any point just to see what they are comparing specifically.
No, unfortunately I don't. I've done a lot of different research for school and I don't keep everything, especially not at work; I am unable to link you into the library anyway. If you're interested PubMed or Google Scholar can probably locate some/ Keywords like Core Training & Injury Prevention, Core Training and Movement, Core Training and Neuromuscular Control, Core Training and Resistance Training to name a few might get you somewhere.
No worries and thank you.
I really wish people were less prone to jump on the 'why do people say you should only squat and dead and everything else is crap' bandwagon (just as much as I am sure you wish people were less prone to saying exactly that). Usually, that is not what they are saying (in fact, I have never actually seen that on here).
At the end of the day, 'best' is very individual. It really depends on goals, your general routine, what you enjoy (so what you will do consistently) - which is what my post indicated - the 'best' ones for me are squats and deads - does not mean they are optimal if looking at core alone and does not mean they are the 'best' for others - it also does not mean that they are the only thing I do or would recommend.0 -
I am starting at totally sucky core and carrying a lot of extra weight to boot. So I'm quoting Yoda:
"There is no best, only do."
I do a lot of exercises on my back so I don't over-strain my back or leg joints. My physiotherapist has me doing bunches of interesting things, many of them designed to activate poorly used core muscles. Here's one that uses all sorts of itsy bitsy core muscles I never knew I had; the Alphabet. Spell your name with the weight ball.
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RKC planks have been great for my abs, glutes and quads. But I have to alternate to my hands because the RKC style roughens up my skin below the elbow. Anyone else have that problem?0
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I'm doing the side plank but I don't look as good as this guy:
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This one, too. Is it called a bridge?
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No worries and thank you.
I really wish people were less prone to jump on the 'why do people say you should only squat and dead and everything else is crap' bandwagon (just as much as I am sure you wish people were less prone to saying exactly that). Usually, that is not what they are saying (in fact, I have never actually seen that on here).
I guess I spend too much time reading these boards then. LOL!which is what my post indicated - the 'best' ones for me are squats and deads - does not mean they are optimal if looking at core alone and does not mean they are the 'best' for others - it also does not mean that they are the only thing I do or would recommend.
Generally speaking of course and not directed at you, but I think on MFP there is huge misunderstanding of what the Core musculature really is; it's more than just abs and obliques. Aside from all the muscles contained within it, it really manages quite a bit of just basic movement and the less conditioned these muscles are the better chance somebody has at hurting themselves. Core training doesn't need to be one of those 30-min JM videos either, that's ridiculous, but 1 to 3 exercises for 1 to 3 sets will provide good benefit to most. Whereas there is individuality into what people need and adapt to, basic kinematics can't be ignored and the Core muscles are very important.
I get passionate, for a lack of better words, about this because through school and my PES cert I've spent a lot of time studying about non-contact knee and ankle injuries and much of it (obviously not all) can be prevented with strengthening of the Core muscles. Flexibility, and other muscle groups are a separate topic.0 -
Would probably agree here since most people who do sit ups use their hip flexors more than their core.MrCoolGrim wrote: »60 second plank hold equals 100 sit ups
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Perhaps people should switch to RKC sit ups?0 -
Tornado ball
. 0 -
juliewatkin wrote: »I used to subscribe to the school of thought that squats and deadlifts were enough. However, every time I throw ab work in consistently, my squats and deadlifts get better.
My go to are:
straight leg raises (toes to ceiling/bar if possible)
bar roll outs
fall outs
dumb bell side bends
suit case carries
front squat static hold (one of my favourites but I don't do it as much. Overload the bar, unrack and just stand straight)
it's strange, isn't it? that if a person is trying to improve in a big lift that involves a lot of core assitance, that doing specific core work will actually improve performance in those big lifts. just like doing arm work improved my pressing and rowing numbers. but MFP is SQUATZ N DEDZ all day, all the time. anything else be broscience.
just like you, i find that my performance improves with regular core works my....everything. and since "core" includes a variety of functionality, just settling on ONE BEST EXERCISE for it is pure folly. i've got a wide variety of things i add in to my workouts to hit various aspects.
i like the sound of that front static squat. it should be similar to my single arm OH farmers walk, but with a crapton of more weight. i might try that one this afternoon.
Wait...who said only do deads and squats and everything else is bro?
That was me.
But you didn't actually day that!
But I meant it, brah.
Y u quote me before I could fix my typo?
Lololololol0
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