I'm thinking about going vegetarian or vegan

kjarvo

I am thinking about going vegetarian or vegan. I remember a post on here by someone saying can you be a semi-vegetarian but I totally understood what they meant. I am not against eating meat at all. I understand and agree with the food chain, but I just don't agree with modern farming methods. I don't know if there is an alternative. I have thought this for a while and I eat far less meat than I used to, but I drink a lot of milk.

I watched an episode of Countryfile where a cow was artificially inseminated and as soon as she was pregnant, the embryo was removed and the best ones were frozen. That is totally wrong and completely against nature. I read an article earlier about how male calves are taken to slaughter sometimes only days old and they don't get their mother's milk. I think because my friend is currently pregnant I just thought of how horrible it would be if it happened to human's but we don't care about animals (majority).

So I am thinking of going vegan or vegetarian. I would like at the least to cut down my meat and dairy consumption. That is what I mean by semi-vegetarian for ethical reasons, cutting down reduces the need and hopefully in turn promotes better welfare. BUT I don't know where I stand with cutting down meat or cutting dairy altogether. Is there any ethical milk? Are ALL male animals slaughtered shortly after birth? There is a farm near me that sells eggs that are free range (you can see them running round). Will eating these eggs be hypocritical because the males are still slaughtered?

There is a lot to think about, but if anyone has any tips about cutting down or giving up completely or eating more ethically it would be much appreciated.

tiptoethruthetulips

If you are not against eating meat and actually enjoy it you just need to source a farm with ethical practices including ensuring the animals are slaughtered as humanely as possible.

Plenty around, get to know your local farmers and buy only from the farm gate.

galgenstrick

Vital farms eggs are probably the most ethical, if you can get them where you live. Basically they rescue hens that have been abused by the rest of the industry, so you don't have to worry about the males being slaughtered. They are expensive though. About 8 dollars per dozen.

There isn't really any ethical dairy, but some brands are more ethical than others. Look for stamps on packages that say "certified humane".

Same for meats. I would say some meats are more ethical than most dairy products because at least the animal isn't kept pregnant their entire life.

SBRRepeat

galgenstrick wrote: »

Vital farms eggs are probably the most ethical, if you can get them where you live. Basically they rescue hens that have been abused by the rest of the industry, so you don't have to worry about the males being slaughtered. They are expensive though. About 8 dollars per dozen.

There isn't really any ethical dairy, but some brands are more ethical than others. Look for stamps on packages that say "certified humane".

Same for meats. I would say some meats are more ethical than most dairy products because at least the animal isn't kept pregnant their entire life.

We have two dairies in my area that I would deem "ethical," so they are definitely around. Find locally owned natural grocery stores and farmers markets. I've had no trouble finding and getting to know farmers who take pride in caring for pastured, healthy, animals and producing quality meat and dairy.

You have to be willing to pay a little extra and work moderately harder to find quality foods, but I've been able to discover new local producers at Whole Foods, then seek them out directly or through a farmers market where the prices are more reasonable.

rbiss

To me, milk has always been pretty foul, but I make a lot of soups and bake. I use coconut milk, cashew milk, and almond milk depending on what I am using it for. Sometimes I just like a little cereal and they are all great.

For me becoming vegetarian was a process. The more you learn, the less you want to eat from industrial farming. I would suggest farmers markets and CSA's. You go local and there is a better chance of a smaller farm being "nicer". Also, look for things with the certified human labels. The system isn't perfect, but any little bit helps. You don't have to commit to being vegetarian/vegan, just try new things out, see what works for you, and eventually you'll get to a place you can live with.

I also wanted to throw this out there because most people don't know. Lactation happens when the cow is preparing for a calf. Dairy cows are constantly inseminated to keep them producing milk. It is very unnatural.

Liftng4Lis

Good luck with that. I so love meat!

linlouwilli

kjarvo wrote: »

I am thinking about going vegetarian or vegan. I remember a post on here by someone saying can you be a semi-vegetarian but I totally understood what they meant. I am not against eating meat at all. I understand and agree with the food chain, but I just don't agree with modern farming methods. I don't know if there is an alternative. I have thought this for a while and I eat far less meat than I used to, but I drink a lot of milk.

I watched an episode of Countryfile where a cow was artificially inseminated and as soon as she was pregnant, the embryo was removed and the best ones were frozen. That is totally wrong and completely against nature. I read an article earlier about how male calves are taken to slaughter sometimes only days old and they don't get their mother's milk. I think because my friend is currently pregnant I just thought of how horrible it would be if it happened to human's but we don't care about animals (majority).

So I am thinking of going vegan or vegetarian. I would like at the least to cut down my meat and dairy consumption. That is what I mean by semi-vegetarian for ethical reasons, cutting down reduces the need and hopefully in turn promotes better welfare. BUT I don't know where I stand with cutting down meat or cutting dairy altogether. Is there any ethical milk? Are ALL male animals slaughtered shortly after birth? There is a farm near me that sells eggs that are free range (you can see them running round). Will eating these eggs be hypocritical because the males are still slaughtered?

There is a lot to think about, but if anyone has any tips about cutting down or giving up completely or eating more ethically it would be much appreciated.

rainbowbow

I dont know if there's an "ethical" way to eat the flesh skin/muscle/fat deposits/organs of another living creature. Or to drink another mammal's milk.

I have been a vegetarian my entire life so maybe my outlook is skewed. But, I dont base morality of killing and eating another living creature on cuteness, so eating animals is completely unappealing to me. It would be like skinning and eating my pets.

No judgements here on what you choose to do, just something to think about.

moto450

rainbowbow wrote: »

I dont know if there's an "ethical" way to eat the flesh skin/muscle/fat deposits/organs of another living creature. Or to drink another mammal's milk.

I have been a vegetarian my entire life so maybe my outlook is skewed. But, I dont base morality of killing and eating another living creature on cuteness, so eating animals is completely unappealing to me. It would be like skinning and eating my pets.

Wow. Didn't try and dramatize that one at all?

OP, if you want to go vegetarian then go for it. I believe all things in moderation.

neanderthin

moto450 wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

I dont know if there's an "ethical" way to eat the flesh skin/muscle/fat deposits/organs of another living creature. Or to drink another mammal's milk.

I have been a vegetarian my entire life so maybe my outlook is skewed. But, I dont base morality of killing and eating another living creature on cuteness, so eating animals is completely unappealing to me. It would be like skinning and eating my pets.

Wow. Didn't try and dramatize that one at all?

OP, if you want to go vegetarian then go for it. I believe all things in moderation.

I have a problem with the basic morality issue where it's acceptable to kill animals in order to consume vegetables/plants. They probably skipped over that part in the documentaries.

Pandagirlinleeds

I'm a pescetarian at the moment, technically.

I find it hard to be fully vegetarian because I have coeliac disease. My first choice eating out is always a gluten free vegetarian dish, but if that is not available then I will eat seafood or fish. My preference is for bivalves like mussels that don't have a central nervous system.

I gave up meat because of modern farming methods and like you, I felt uneasy about it. I am eating dairy at the moment but have cut back - I don't buy milk or cream or yoghurt any more, I have dairy free alternatives. So I'm kinda just left with cheese and eggs, and my eggs come from a local farm where at least they don't chuck the male baby chicks alive in a grinder.

My principle I guess is about minimising harm - even vegans can't eliminate harm altogether, since farming crops also damages wildlife and the environment. You just have to work out the best compromise for you - some people find that's eating more humane meat, eggs and dairy, but for some, the only solution is cutting itout eentirely.

janejellyroll

I am not sure what country you are in, but in my country (the US) I am not aware of any source for milk that doesn't involve the slaughter of males and slaughtering females once they can no longer profit the dairy owners. Milk is inextricably bound with meat and the vast majority of dairies separate cows and their young. If someone told me they had an ethical source for milk, I would always ask "What happens to the calves?" and "What happens to older cows?"

I would have similar questions for eggs - - "Where are you getting your chicks (and what is the supplier doing with the males)?" and "What happens to older hens with declining egg production?" Currently many smaller egg producers may position themselves as rescue-type groups, but I have heard of some that still purchase chicks or slaughter for meat. If you don't want to use your money to support these practices, be cautious.

The good news is that it is totally possible to lead a happy and healthy vegan life. I recommend reading up on vegan nutrition ("Vegan for Life "by Jack Norris and Virginia Messina is an excellent resource) and picking up a cookbook or two to get started (Isa Chandra Moskowitz and Donna Klein are two of my favorite authors).

neanderthin

Pandagirlinleeds wrote: »

I'm a pescetarian at the moment, technically.

I find it hard to be fully vegetarian because I have coeliac disease. My first choice eating out is always a gluten free vegetarian dish, but if that is not available then I will eat seafood or fish. My preference is for bivalves like mussels that don't have a central nervous system.

I don't buy milk or cream or yoghurt any more, I have dairy free alternatives. So I'm kinda just left with cheese and eggs

Bivalves also supply EPA, DHA and B12 all of which are missing in a vegan diet. The cultivation is far more humane and far better for the environment then eating grain for example.

Cheese is dairy.

jordie1129

If you want to do it, do it. Personally I did it for 5 years and felt terrible, so I'm adding in fish, dairy and eggs. However, just because I didn't do well doesn't mean that it's impossible. My advice is to learn everything you can. Vegan for Life is a great starter point. Also, avoid low fat/no fat vegan. It's VERY hard to sustain.

galgenstrick

jordie1129 wrote: »

If you want to do it, do it. Personally I did it for 5 years and felt terrible, so I'm adding in fish, dairy and eggs. However, just because I didn't do well doesn't mean that it's impossible. My advice is to learn everything you can. Vegan for Life is a great starter point. Also, avoid low fat/no fat vegan. It's VERY hard to sustain.

This. I was vegan for 5 years and felt and looked anorexic and anemic... My my muscles pretty much disintegrated and took me a long time to recover from it. But, with that said, I had a PE teacher in college that was vegan for almost half her life and she was built like a brick. So you just need to be extremely diligent about hitting your macros and you'll probably be just fine.

rainbowbow

moto450 wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

I dont know if there's an "ethical" way to eat the flesh skin/muscle/fat deposits/organs of another living creature. Or to drink another mammal's milk.

I have been a vegetarian my entire life so maybe my outlook is skewed. But, I dont base morality of killing and eating another living creature on cuteness, so eating animals is completely unappealing to me. It would be like skinning and eating my pets.

Wow. Didn't try and dramatize that one at all?

OP, if you want to go vegetarian then go for it. I believe all things in moderation.

Using the term dramatic to try and discredit my statement is ridiculous. All the things I said above are true.

Just because things come nicely packaged in the store as "pork" or "beef" doesn't change what it truly is. Additionally there are countries where eating dogs, cats, etc. IS perfectly acceptable. If you get a stomach dropping sickening feeling at the thought of someone eating your pet then you're a hypocrite.

There are even countries where the thought of eating animals like chickens, pigs, cows, or cats/dogs is punishable by law and deemed unethical. Move away from the hive mindset and develop your own personal morals. As stated for me, I don't think any of them are okay.

MarziPanda95

rbiss wrote: »

I also wanted to throw this out there because most people don't know. Lactation happens when the cow is preparing for a calf. Dairy cows are constantly inseminated to keep them producing milk. It is very unnatural.

If we all rejected things because they're 'not natural' we wouldn't be able to function. Cars aren't natural. Clothes aren't natural. IVF and surrogacy for couples struggling to conceive isn't natural. How far back do we have to go before things are considered natural, then? Milk has been harvested for thousands of years.
And yes, OP, here in the UK (where I assume you're from since you were watching Countryfile) there are some free range ethical diary farms that don't treat their cows badly and don't keep them pregnant all year round. You'll have to go and find them for yourself, though.

lyndsayfletch

kjarvo wrote: »

I am thinking about going vegetarian or vegan. I remember a post on here by someone saying can you be a semi-vegetarian but I totally understood what they meant. I am not against eating meat at all. I understand and agree with the food chain, but I just don't agree with modern farming methods. I don't know if there is an alternative. I have thought this for a while and I eat far less meat than I used to, but I drink a lot of milk.

I watched an episode of Countryfile where a cow was artificially inseminated and as soon as she was pregnant, the embryo was removed and the best ones were frozen. That is totally wrong and completely against nature. I read an article earlier about how male calves are taken to slaughter sometimes only days old and they don't get their mother's milk. I think because my friend is currently pregnant I just thought of how horrible it would be if it happened to human's but we don't care about animals (majority).

So I am thinking of going vegan or vegetarian. I would like at the least to cut down my meat and dairy consumption. That is what I mean by semi-vegetarian for ethical reasons, cutting down reduces the need and hopefully in turn promotes better welfare. BUT I don't know where I stand with cutting down meat or cutting dairy altogether. Is there any ethical milk? Are ALL male animals slaughtered shortly after birth? There is a farm near me that sells eggs that are free range (you can see them running round). Will eating these eggs be hypocritical because the males are still slaughtered?

There is a lot to think about, but if anyone has any tips about cutting down or giving up completely or eating more ethically it would be much appreciated.

I'd suggest reading Kimberly snyder's book....you will prob agree with a lot of her research.....changed my life for the better, not just nutrition wise!!

kjarvo

rainbowbow wrote: »

I dont know if there's an "ethical" way to eat the flesh skin/muscle/fat deposits/organs of another living creature. Or to drink another mammal's milk.

I have been a vegetarian my entire life so maybe my outlook is skewed. But, I dont base morality of killing and eating another living creature on cuteness, so eating animals is completely unappealing to me. It would be like skinning and eating my pets.

No judgements here on what you choose to do, just something to think about.

I am not against eating meat. Other animals eat meat and wouldn't think twice about eating me lol. I don't know why you are critising my decision, surely as a vegetarian you should be praising and encouraging other to go to 'your side'.

kjarvo

(I'm from the UK btw).
Yes I don't know where I stand exactly. I've been doing a lot of research today and I don't know what to eat or not. Milk production seems worse somehow than meat, because at least chickens aren't constantly being impregnated for milk. The opposite really, because of eggs. But there is still the issue with the males being slaughtered.
I don't think fish is as much of a problem, because they aren't as extensively farmed as meats.
I have been having a look at vegan foods. I think I could cut out meat easily, but dairy is harder because milk and eggs are in so many things!

melimomTARDIS

If you have a solid interest in vegetarian food, then I say go for it.

I strive to eat a strictly vegetarian diet (including eggs and dairy in smallish amounts).

However,I do crave fried/breaded white fish sometimes, and I have been indulging in that on occasion. (think fish sticks, fish sandwiches)

But I am hardly a pescetarian, I eat no other seafood. I'm sort of in no mans land right now, but my friends and family refer to me as vegetarian, as I eat vegetarian 24/7, give or take a fish sandwich.

I hope to drop the fish sammies altogether, but its a very comforting food for me. Catholic kid problems. LOL

WeddedBliss1992

i tried b/c my cousins are vegan. lasted about a week. then i craved milk & eggs & meat.

melimomTARDIS

added- i really dont do anything perfectly, so naturally my vegetarianism follows that. *sigh*

juggernaut1974

In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!

Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.

janejellyroll

ceoverturf wrote: »

In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!

Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.

Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?

juggernaut1974

janejellyroll wrote: »

ceoverturf wrote: »

In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!

Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.

Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?

...Edit....never mind....not in the mood to fight the self-righteousness tonight.

galgenstrick

janejellyroll wrote: »

I am not sure what country you are in, but in my country (the US) I am not aware of any source for milk that doesn't involve the slaughter of males and slaughtering females once they can no longer profit the dairy owners. Milk is inextricably bound with meat and the vast majority of dairies separate cows and their young. If someone told me they had an ethical source for milk, I would always ask "What happens to the calves?" and "What happens to older cows?"

I would have similar questions for eggs - - "Where are you getting your chicks (and what is the supplier doing with the males)?" and "What happens to older hens with declining egg production?" Currently many smaller egg producers may position themselves as rescue-type groups, but I have heard of some that still purchase chicks or slaughter for meat. If you don't want to use your money to support these practices, be cautious.

The good news is that it is totally possible to lead a happy and healthy vegan life. I recommend reading up on vegan nutrition ("Vegan for Life "by Jack Norris and Virginia Messina is an excellent resource) and picking up a cookbook or two to get started (Isa Chandra Moskowitz and Donna Klein are two of my favorite authors).

There's virtually no way you can be vegan and not support the meat and dairy industry in some way. Unless of course you're a hermit on a remote island. With that said, you can make decisions which will support them less; for example, by choosing not to consume animal products.

melimomTARDIS

ceoverturf wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

ceoverturf wrote: »

In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!

Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.

Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?

...Edit....never mind....not in the mood to fight the self-righteousness tonight.

not everyone who doesnt eat meat is self righteous about it. veggie diets can be unhealthy and decadent. vegetarians are not necessarily more moral either.

I prefer vegetarian food, so that is what I eat.

janejellyroll

ceoverturf wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

ceoverturf wrote: »

In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!

Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.

Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?

...Edit....never mind....not in the mood to fight the self-righteousness tonight.

I am not sure what struck you as self-righteousness there. Most of us don't think non-humans are capable of ethical decisions, so I was surprised to see your comment.

janejellyroll

galgenstrick wrote: »

There's virtually no way you can be vegan and not support the meat and dairy industry in some way. Unless of course you're a hermit on a remote island. With that said, you can make decisions which will support them less; for example, by choosing not to consume animal products.

What support are you talking about?

galgenstrick

janejellyroll wrote: »

galgenstrick wrote: »

There's virtually no way you can be vegan and not support the meat and dairy industry in some way. Unless of course you're a hermit on a remote island. With that said, you can make decisions which will support them less; for example, by choosing not to consume animal products.

What support are you talking about?

They are getting your money indirectly.