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I'm thinking about going vegetarian or vegan
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i tried b/c my cousins are vegan. lasted about a week. then i craved milk & eggs & meat.0
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added- i really dont do anything perfectly, so naturally my vegetarianism follows that. *sigh*0
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In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!
Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!
Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.
Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?
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janejellyroll wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!
Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.
Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?
...Edit....never mind....not in the mood to fight the self-righteousness tonight.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I am not sure what country you are in, but in my country (the US) I am not aware of any source for milk that doesn't involve the slaughter of males and slaughtering females once they can no longer profit the dairy owners. Milk is inextricably bound with meat and the vast majority of dairies separate cows and their young. If someone told me they had an ethical source for milk, I would always ask "What happens to the calves?" and "What happens to older cows?"
I would have similar questions for eggs - - "Where are you getting your chicks (and what is the supplier doing with the males)?" and "What happens to older hens with declining egg production?" Currently many smaller egg producers may position themselves as rescue-type groups, but I have heard of some that still purchase chicks or slaughter for meat. If you don't want to use your money to support these practices, be cautious.
The good news is that it is totally possible to lead a happy and healthy vegan life. I recommend reading up on vegan nutrition ("Vegan for Life "by Jack Norris and Virginia Messina is an excellent resource) and picking up a cookbook or two to get started (Isa Chandra Moskowitz and Donna Klein are two of my favorite authors).
There's virtually no way you can be vegan and not support the meat and dairy industry in some way. Unless of course you're a hermit on a remote island. With that said, you can make decisions which will support them less; for example, by choosing not to consume animal products.0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!
Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.
Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?
...Edit....never mind....not in the mood to fight the self-righteousness tonight.
not everyone who doesnt eat meat is self righteous about it. veggie diets can be unhealthy and decadent. vegetarians are not necessarily more moral either.
I prefer vegetarian food, so that is what I eat.0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!
Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.
Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?
...Edit....never mind....not in the mood to fight the self-righteousness tonight.
I am not sure what struck you as self-righteousness there. Most of us don't think non-humans are capable of ethical decisions, so I was surprised to see your comment.
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galgenstrick wrote: »There's virtually no way you can be vegan and not support the meat and dairy industry in some way. Unless of course you're a hermit on a remote island. With that said, you can make decisions which will support them less; for example, by choosing not to consume animal products.
What support are you talking about?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »There's virtually no way you can be vegan and not support the meat and dairy industry in some way. Unless of course you're a hermit on a remote island. With that said, you can make decisions which will support them less; for example, by choosing not to consume animal products.
What support are you talking about?
They are getting your money indirectly.
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I went vegetarian, and am slowly phasing into being vegan for the same reasons as you, OP. It was easier for me, to a certain extent, because I don't really like meat (weird, I know). I was a HUGE milk-o-holic -- like3 large glasses a day, but now I drink Silk Soy milk. I LOVE it. Absolutely. I didn't think I would like it, but I loved it at first taste. Silk also produces several different nut milks, which many people prefer, like almond and cashew, but they taste too nutty to me. I guess it is a personal taste thing. I don't really miss eggs. The only challenge I've had is cheese in prepared meals. If I had the time to do more cooking, I'd be fine. I think as long as you watch your macro-nutrients, which is made easier thanks to MFP, you'll do fine. I feel better (and my doctor says I am healthier than I've ever been in my life). My doctor says I am much healthier than many of her patients half my age. She is also vegetarian. Please let me know with if I can help you in any way. I'd love to spread the vegetarian joy!!
Good luck to you! 0 -
Funny thing, there is, and it's usually cheaper too.I am thinking about going vegetarian or vegan. I remember a post on here by someone saying can you be a semi-vegetarian but I totally understood what they meant. I am not against eating meat at all. I understand and agree with the food chain, but I just don't agree with modern farming methods. I don't know if there is an alternative. I have thought this for a while and I eat far less meat than I used to, but I drink a lot of milk.
I'm not a fan of modern farming methods wrt to animals. Vegetable farming is even worse, but I'm not about to go grow my own.
So instead of giving up and becoming some hippy vegan or whatevs, I just started buying whole animals from the people raising them. Primarily 4H kids, I meet the kid, the animal, and the money they get from me goes towards college funds, it seems in general. These are animals with names, homes, they got cookies, hugs, and love. That translates to amazing meat.
So in general, I'll buy a couple whole animals, have a butcher process them, and into my freezer they go. Once a year. You also can't touch what I pay per pound if you're buying from a super market. Oh, AND it all TASTES better.
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melimomTARDIS wrote: »If you have a solid interest in vegetarian food, then I say go for it.
I strive to eat a strictly vegetarian diet (including eggs and dairy in smallish amounts).
However,I do crave fried/breaded white fish sometimes, and I have been indulging in that on occasion. (think fish sticks, fish sandwiches)
But I am hardly a pescetarian, I eat no other seafood. I'm sort of in no mans land right now, but my friends and family refer to me as vegetarian, as I eat vegetarian 24/7, give or take a fish sandwich.
I hope to drop the fish sammies altogether, but its a very comforting food for me. Catholic kid problems. LOL
I was a Catholic kid who hated fish and any other seafood all my life. Every Friday, not just during Lent, my parents made us eat fish. Baked (frozen) plain flounder with lots of bones left in. I think that contributed to my dislike of fish. It is amazing how much easier Lent is now that I'm vegetarian, LOL!
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Good grief I rarely meet my protein macros as it is and I eat meat. I'd be in deep nutritional distress if I gave it up.0
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"
Let's do a thought experiment. Imagine that a tiger was given a moral sense. Do you really think the tiger would decide that eating meat was unethical? Or even that it presents an ethical question?janejellyroll wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!
Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.
Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?
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sheldonklein wrote: »"
Let's do a thought experiment. Imagine that a tiger was given a moral sense. Do you really think the tiger would decide that eating meat was unethical? Or even that it presents an ethical question?janejellyroll wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!
Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.
Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?
If anything, it would choose to kill quicker, in order to minimize suffering. Possibly eat fewer large animals, as those are the hardest to kill, making the killing session last a long period. Plus, some of that animal would by need go to "waste" and be inefficient just for the tiger.
However, brother tiger, being aware of his place in the ecosystem would realize that even his wasted meat feeds others, so that was ok. He'd then think of new ways to kill in order to make the killing go quicker and easier.
Later, he would find that animals killed quicker taste better. He would then learn to write, so that he could better explain his new found concept of tiger gourmandism. He would later be known for, "Tell me how you kill, and I'll tell you what you taste, meow."0 -
sheldonklein wrote: »"
Let's do a thought experiment. Imagine that a tiger was given a moral sense. Do you really think the tiger would decide that eating meat was unethical? Or even that it presents an ethical question?janejellyroll wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!
Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.
Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?
Cats are obligate carnivores. I'm all for a species appropriate diet.
But humans CAN survive without eating meat. Hell, if you want to eat meat or fish then by all means.
Let's think of another "thought experiment" if you put a toddler in a room with a banana and a bunny, which do you think they'd eat first?
You're either okay with eating meat, or not. If you are, then i was pointing out that i see no reason for the silly "but you cant eat a dog!" or "You can't eat a cat!" thought process that seems so rampant. Like eating one is perfectly acceptable and eating another is somehow "wrong".0 -
Toddlers are miniature drunks.
They'll puke on the rabbit and put the banana in their pants.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »sheldonklein wrote: »"
Let's do a thought experiment. Imagine that a tiger was given a moral sense. Do you really think the tiger would decide that eating meat was unethical? Or even that it presents an ethical question?janejellyroll wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »In for unethical lions, tigers, and bears. Oh My!
Carbs, Sugar, and Carnivores are all the debil.
Do you really consider non-human animals capable of making ethical decisions about food?
Cats are obligate carnivores. I'm all for a species appropriate diet.
But humans CAN survive without eating meat. Hell, if you want to eat meat or fish then by all means.
Let's think of another "thought experiment" if you put a toddler in a room with a banana and a bunny, which do you think they'd eat first?
You're either okay with eating meat, or not. If you are, then i was pointing out that i see no reason for the silly "but you cant eat a dog!" or "You can't eat a cat!" thought process that seems so rampant. Like eating one is perfectly acceptable and eating another is somehow "wrong".
I'm a meat eater and I've been in a similar debate (on the same side as you) over horse meat. I get what you're saying. If meat is okay, then all meat is okay. You can't okay one and not another because of cuteness factor.
Emotionally, I'm not okay with eating animals - I can't even consume meat with bones it in because it makes me think about what I'm actually eating (and it makes me sick).
But I continue to eat meat and just push it to the back of my mind. I realize how ridiculous this is. Maybe one day I'll stop. 0 -
Toddlers are miniature drunks.
They'll puke on the rabbit and put the banana in their pants.
Fair enough. But i still don't think it's human nature to see all living things and be like "GET IN MY MOUTH" dead bird on the sidewalk. Or "You look tasty!" pet hamster.
We CAN eat meat, but surely our survival no longer depends on it. We aren't carnivores and to compare ourselves to lions is silly.
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