Soylent
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »happygalah wrote: »
I never tried Soylent. I dislike their assertion that it is healthy to replace all food with it. Sure you might not get malnutrition. But you'd have to be out of your mind to think that eating just soylent and nothing else is as healthy in the long run as eating a well balanced diet.
Why wouldn't it be?
Pet food is made and sold as complete nutrition and if a dog eats the same food its entire life, it certainly isn't malnourished; and they seem to be healthy.
What about people in a coma? Obviously they are fed intravenously or fed some how to keep them alive. Of course it isn't healthy to be just lying around all the time.
I hope that the Soylent would come in a solid kibble form like a Purina People Chow.
Pet food is your standard?In addition "taurine deficiency" has been found in dogs and cats fed commercial diets intended to be "complete and balanced". Not usually considered an essential nutrient in dogs, taurine is plentiful in most whole meats whether raw or cooked, but is reduced in extruded diets. Cats require sufficient taurine in their diets due to their increased rate of protein metabolism; taurine is usually synthesized in the body from methionine and cysteine, but cats' increased use of these amino acids in normal bodily functions mean that taurine itself must also be provided in the diet.
The above observations could also be explained by the rendered, highly processed source of meat being less rich in taurine and by the fact that some of the taurine is denatured during extrusion. Cats are obligate carnivores and their natural diet would consist of high amounts of whole meat - thus what has been termed "taurine deficiency" causing dilated cardiomyopathy in cats, is more likely to be a deficiency in the production of commercial feed diets. Taurine is now artificially supplemented back into the diet after processing in the production of most commercial pet food. A similar dynamic occurred in the first half of the twentieth century with an epidemic of Pellagra in humans living in the Southern United States. This cause was determined to be niacin deficiency, and essential vitamin, which was being destroyed in the mass processing of corn. Niacin was supplemented back into Southern diets and the disease was eradicated.
One of the criticisms of Soylent has been that taurine is insufficient in the formulation and while we don't have a specific RDA since we can synthesize it, it is likely necessary when when our diet isn't sufficiently rich in the precursors. Is this the case, I don't know, but it is a reasonable question.
The point is that as a product being touted as a single source of nutrition by the makers and the community it really is insufficiently evaluated to assure a correct nutrient profile. The information that we have today on RDAs assumes a varied diet, and science isn't advanced enough to consider fully the needs or negative effects of totally removing such things as phytonutrients. It is playing sorcer's apprentice with your own body.
But carry on, hopefully a large enough number of Guinea pigs will latch on to this fad in Portlandia and we can see if disease clusters arise. I'm always fascinated by the willingness of people to blindly become an experimental statistic around their nutrition.
Crowd sourced marketing is fantastic - but really, why place your entire diet on something that doesn't have either strong historical or clinically evaluated evidence?
Soylent is probably missing a few things science isn't yet aware the human body needs. But it's also likely that it isn't particularly bad for you. Humans have survived on worse in many places.
I do hope to read some long term studies some day. I just don't plan to blindly submit myself to the experiment.
I'm not doing this as an "experiment." I'm primarily doing it as a cost-cutting measure from now until I get into a more financially friendly situation (move to a less expensive city and get a higher paying job). It'll be two years at most. At that point, I'll re-evaluate my situation and decide whether or not I'll switch back to real food.
Also, I have bad food sensitivities that have messed up my digestive system. The only way to fix it is to completely avoid soy for 1-2 years. Unless I literally make everything I eat from scratch, then this is an impossible task. Soylent makes this easier because I don't have the time to always cook every little bit of food I eat.
I will be keeping my health regularly monitored by a doctor in case anything comes up. I'm not doing this blindly.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »How much bioavailable sulforaphane and indole-3-carbinol is in your diy or this guy's original formulation?
Yeah, woopsy.
Minimum essential isn't most beneficial. Eat your veggies.
"Basic research on sulforaphane indicates potential for effects on mechanisms of human disease, including neurodegenerative disorders and cancer; however, results to date are contradictory, requiring clarification by future studies.[3][4] In animal models sulforaphane appears to have a protective effect against diabetes-related kidney damage.[2]
Sulforaphane may have a neuroprotective effect that can aid recovery from spinal cord injury, though the effect is not as strong as that of interleukin-10.[5]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulforaphane
Looks irrelevant and certainly not proven to be necessary, so I'm not worried.
As for Indole-3-carbinol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indole-3-carbinol
Also look like it's unnecessary for survival, just suggested that it might be good for keeping away disease.
Oh, and it's in kale, which I put in my DIY recipe, so I'm getting some.
So a DIY version is just blended food? Ok then.
The dIY can be whatever you make it from. You can source all the ingredients from bulk vitamin and mineral suppliers, or you can source it from your local grocery stores. As long as your hitting all of your micros and macros, you're good to go.
Most recipes are made up from 8-12 ingredients. I try to get as much of it from real food as possible.0 -
I'd also like to add: The creators of Soylent have never said "You should drinking this, and only drink this." They still recommend having a real meal at least once a week.
I remember reading up on Soylent when it was still in the preliminary stages of development. The creator was talking about how it would be amazing to be able to produce a complete (as much as we know) powdered solution you could ship to famined countries for significantly less cost than packaged food. They sell it for $255 USD for a months supply, but if they were producing it for third world countries, it would be significantly less as I'm sure they will be putting less markup on it.
All of this "incomplete nutrition" and "replacing real food" nonsense aside, if you look at it from this perspective: not as a replacement for well-nourished countries, but as something that can be developed and eventually used for countries in need, this is an excellent product that should be supported and encouraged.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »I'd also like to add: The creators of Soylent have never said "You should drinking this, and only drink this." They still recommend having a real meal at least once a week.
I remember reading up on Soylent when it was still in the preliminary stages of development. The creator was talking about how it would be amazing to be able to produce a complete (as much as we know) powdered solution you could ship to famined countries for significantly less cost than packaged food. They sell it for $255 USD for a months supply, but if they were producing it for third world countries, it would be significantly less as I'm sure they will be putting less markup on it.
All of this "incomplete nutrition" and "replacing real food" nonsense aside, if you look at it from this perspective: not as a replacement for well-nourished countries, but as something that can be developed and eventually used for countries in need, this is an excellent product that should be supported and encouraged.
I get your personal reasons.
As someone who has actually worked for a company that produces powdered formulation sold in the developing world there are all sorts of issues with sourcing and distribution that this type of solution will raise but that's another subject.
One real meal once a week? Yep, that doesn't sound like an attempt at a complete solution.
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wasnt that a movie where they would eat people?0
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My son has been using soylent for a while now. He likes the convenience, says it tastes nice, is helping him maintain his weight. He appears healthy and happy which is all you need know.
I don't fancy it, but I never liked shakes. If there was a tea (or pepsi max cherry) that I could drink that tasted like tea (or pepsi max cherry) and gave me all the nutrition I needed I might drink that.
Different strokes for different folks?
(On a different tack - I saw the film and spent a couple of years trying to track down the boook. The book was not a patch on the film.)0 -
johnnylakis wrote: »wasnt that a movie where they would eat people?
They say "You are what you eat." Clearly, eating fit, healthy people is the direct path to becoming fit and healthy.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »I'd also like to add: The creators of Soylent have never said "You should drinking this, and only drink this." They still recommend having a real meal at least once a week.
I remember reading up on Soylent when it was still in the preliminary stages of development. The creator was talking about how it would be amazing to be able to produce a complete (as much as we know) powdered solution you could ship to famined countries for significantly less cost than packaged food. They sell it for $255 USD for a months supply, but if they were producing it for third world countries, it would be significantly less as I'm sure they will be putting less markup on it.
All of this "incomplete nutrition" and "replacing real food" nonsense aside, if you look at it from this perspective: not as a replacement for well-nourished countries, but as something that can be developed and eventually used for countries in need, this is an excellent product that should be supported and encouraged.
I get your personal reasons.
As someone who has actually worked for a company that produces powdered formulation sold in the developing world there are all sorts of issues with sourcing and distribution that this type of solution will raise but that's another subject.
One real meal once a week? Yep, that doesn't sound like an attempt at a complete solution.
Soylent is supposedly designed as a "complete" solution. Basically, they were saying that you can still maintain flexibility. If you drink Soylent, you don't only have to drink Soylent. I believe that's what they were getting at.
Oh, another thing I'd like to add: When eating real foods, I was always crazing different things. Chocolate, candy, pizza, burgers. I always wanted something that I shouldn't necessarily be eating at that time (too many calories for my daily allotment. Not saying you should never eat any of the above). Since I started drinking Soylent, ALL of my cravings have vanished. It's easier to control my intake.
ETA: Cravings, from what I have read, are your bodys way of telling you that you're deficient on certain micronutrients. I'm certain I no longer have cravings because I'm now getting all of the (known) necessary micronutrients.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »
Soylent is supposedly designed as a "complete" solution. Basically, they were saying that you can still maintain flexibility. If you drink Soylent, you don't only have to drink Soylent. I believe that's what they were getting at.
Oh, another thing I'd like to add: When eating real foods, I was always crazing different things. Chocolate, candy, pizza, burgers. I always wanted something that I shouldn't necessarily be eating at that time (too many calories for my daily allotment. Not saying you should never eat any of the above). Since I started drinking Soylent, ALL of my cravings have vanished. It's easier to control my intake.
ETA: Cravings, from what I have read, are your bodys way of telling you that you're deficient on certain micronutrients. I'm certain I no longer have cravings because I'm now getting all of the (known) necessary micronutrients.
@chivalryder you above statements are the exact same for me as well. Very rarely, and I do mean rarely, do I get a craving for foods that are in the "bad for you" category. In fact, I have found that if I eat just regular food over a weekend with no Soylent I will start craving Soylent by the time Monday morning comes around. This tells me that my body is missing the steady intake of the nutrients found in Soylent that otherwise would require multiple foods to accomplish the same thing. (I think I read that the daily intake of Potassium that our body needs would require us eating 10 bananas a day. I like bananas, but I don't like them that much.)0 -
chivalryder wrote: »
Soylent is supposedly designed as a "complete" solution. Basically, they were saying that you can still maintain flexibility. If you drink Soylent, you don't only have to drink Soylent. I believe that's what they were getting at.
Oh, another thing I'd like to add: When eating real foods, I was always crazing different things. Chocolate, candy, pizza, burgers. I always wanted something that I shouldn't necessarily be eating at that time (too many calories for my daily allotment. Not saying you should never eat any of the above). Since I started drinking Soylent, ALL of my cravings have vanished. It's easier to control my intake.
ETA: Cravings, from what I have read, are your bodys way of telling you that you're deficient on certain micronutrients. I'm certain I no longer have cravings because I'm now getting all of the (known) necessary micronutrients.
@chivalryder you above statements are the exact same for me as well. Very rarely, and I do mean rarely, do I get a craving for foods that are in the "bad for you" category. In fact, I have found that if I eat just regular food over a weekend with no Soylent I will start craving Soylent by the time Monday morning comes around. This tells me that my body is missing the steady intake of the nutrients found in Soylent that otherwise would require multiple foods to accomplish the same thing. (I think I read that the daily intake of Potassium that our body needs would require us eating 10 bananas a day. I like bananas, but I don't like them that much.)
I'm not in the "bad for you foods" group, but that's a totally different discussion.
Last night was the first time I was craving pizza, but it was because I was very tired, hangry (I had been busy all afternoon, so I hadn't eaten anything for 5 or 6 hours), and everything was going wrong all at once. I just wanted to sit down with comfort food.0 -
Single-sourcing pretty much anything is a bad idea. Nature hates monocultures.0
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Hmmm I'll maintain if you like it try it, Just keep in mind you are experimenting with it, but how will we know what it does to people in the long run unless there are people to try it right, so I say go for it and thank you for being willing to test it out. For me though, I never try anything new that has to do with my body unless it's been tested and been around for a long time/ or if I have no other healthier option/choice. But I'm a chicken, it's just that too much stuff has come out that you find out in your older age negatively affected your body and by then it's too late.0
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Just chiming in that it tickles me that the future that we fancied is becoming reality. What's next? Hovercars?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/0 -
It's amusing how defensive I need to be about Soylent. It really seems to upset some people, on a personal level even. Interesting, that.0
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@emmydoodles83, I hate to break it to you, but unless you are eating a completely organic diet with no manufactured products you are already a guinea pig for companies like Monsanto who promote and control GMO food production in this country. I like Soylent because there isn't Corn Syrup or Red Die #5 to make it look and taste more appetizing.0
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emmydoodles83 wrote: »It's amusing how defensive I need to be about Soylent. It really seems to upset some people, on a personal level even. Interesting, that.
somehow I don't think you are amused, since you feel you need to be defensive does that mean you are upset on a personal level. You don't have to defend it just let it be, people will think what they want. I for one am not upset and Thank you sincerely for trying it out. I hope it does really work and do well, I just am not willing to be the guinea pig.
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@chivalryder
Question about your preparation - do you mix your dyi dry and then add water? How long do you store a ready to drink solution?
Just curious.0 -
Single-sourcing pretty much anything is a bad idea. Nature hates monocultures.
I fully agree with this. This is why I'm trying to avoid common allergenic foods. This is how I developed nasty food sensitivities (ate soy religiously in college). I want to cut out the corn I'm currently eating, but I had a tub full of it in my cupboard I'm going to finish first.
Everything else on my list is not a common allergenic, so I'm not terribly worried. I will be mixing it up over time though, to avoid single-sourcing.0 -
@emmydoodles83, I hate to break it to you, but unless you are eating a completely organic diet with no manufactured products you are already a guinea pig for companies like Monsanto who promote and control GMO food production in this country. I like Soylent because there isn't Corn Syrup or Red Die #5 to make it look and taste more appetizing.
I should be clearer I avoid when I can, within reason, I also try to pay attention to ingredients and where my food comes from. Limits the risk which really in life is the best you can do
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »@chivalryder
Question about your preparation - do you mix your dyi dry and then add water? How long do you store a ready to drink solution?
Just curious.
I had made single-day batches, three-day batches, and one week batches. I prefer the one week batches because it's an hour on the weekend to get it all done, then I don't have to worry about food at all throughout the week.
I had tried using flaxseed for my fat, but found it was WAY too much flax per serving. It was also a bit expensive. I've now gone to the typical oil. I had researched mixing tapioca maltodextrin with the oil to turn it into a powder, but I had to order it. I simply mixed the oil into the powder mix (mixed the powder first to ensure consistency) and found that the powder soaked up the oil. It just makes the powder hold together a bit better. Takes a lot of mixing to avoid clumping, but it's still a very dry powder.
I add water right before I drink. I pour a bit of water into a shaker bottle, with the spiral ball (very important to break down the clumps), then pour in the powder (get a wide mouth funnel, the ones for canning are perfect), then top it off with water. Shake well and drink immediately.
Without the oil, I just kept it in sealed containers in a cool, dry place. It's dry powder, so in a week it shouldn't go bad. Same situation as portien powder.
Now that I'm adding oil, I keep it in the fridge, just to be safe. The oil gives bacteria a second way to breed itself in the formula. Probably not much of an issue, but I'm just playing it safe. My fridge is empty otherwise.0 -
emmydoodles83 wrote: »@emmydoodles83, I hate to break it to you, but unless you are eating a completely organic diet with no manufactured products you are already a guinea pig for companies like Monsanto who promote and control GMO food production in this country. I like Soylent because there isn't Corn Syrup or Red Die #5 to make it look and taste more appetizing.
I should be clearer I avoid when I can, within reason, I also try to pay attention to ingredients and where my food comes from. Limits the risk which really in life is the best you can do
100-mile diet is the best way to go, IMO, if at all possible.0 -
emmydoodles83 wrote: »I should be clearer I avoid when I can, within reason, I also try to pay attention to ingredients and where my food comes from. Limits the risk which really in life is the best you can do
Fair enough. I try to do the same thing and felt there was about a similar risk from trying Soylent as there would be from eating the boxed foods found in grocery stores.
I REALLY like chivaryder's idea of the 100-mile diet and hope to incorporate that into my own nutritional needs in the future.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
ldrosophila seemed to be taking it all a little too seriously, IMO. Not personal, but he seemed intent on convincing other people that his opinions are right and that we shouldn't be touching the stuff. (Exaggerated a bit, but let's be real: who gives and eff what other people are doing, right?).
The only thing I would really want to say to someone who wants to try it out is: Do your research! Don't just blindly jump in and accept it to be a perfect product. It isn't. They're revising it on a near monthly basis and are trying to make it a good solution for someone who cannot afford "real" food or for people who simply don't have access to it.
Read up on nutrition, micronutrients and all. Have an idea of what you're going into before you try it. Make an informed decision on whether or not it's right for you.
If you have the time to cook well, and the finances to afford good, healthy foods, I would never recommend Soylent to anyone. I see a lot of people on here going on about how they don't have time to cook, that they cannot afford to buy quality food products. They're asking what they can do and people keep suggesting really bad advice. The "low calorie snacks" are my favourite.
I'd much rather see someone drinking a mixture of powdered food products, with a couple of supplements thrown in, than eating foods containing controversial food products (sweeteners, flavour and colour additives, preservatives, etc.). I'm not trying to start a debate on what is good or bad food. That's not my point. My point is that there is plenty of debate on what is a carcinogen and what isn't. Soylent does not have anything of the like, especially DIY formulas that are made from real food products (albeit highly processed food products).0 -
emmydoodles83 wrote: »I should be clearer I avoid when I can, within reason, I also try to pay attention to ingredients and where my food comes from. Limits the risk which really in life is the best you can do
Fair enough. I try to do the same thing and felt there was about a similar risk from trying Soylent as there would be from eating the boxed foods found in grocery stores.
I REALLY like chivaryder's idea of the 100-mile diet and hope to incorporate that into my own nutritional needs in the future.
Hmm 100 mile, sounds interesting. I do buy boxed food at the grocery store, but usually I try to stick with simple stuff like rice, beans etc. One or two ingredient stuff. Lol if it has a bunch of crazy *kitten* I've never heard of then I def put it back. I also have been getting farm deliveries which they do in my area so I was very excited about that.
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Most whey protein sources contain emulsifiers of some sort, soya lecthin, flavoring, etc...
I assume you are sourcing a 100% flavorless, no additive version.
I'd imagine that highly processed, diy versions it is actually quite hard to not have emulsifiers or to assure lot consistency.0 -
I am not used to this new set up yet. I keep friggin doing another post when I just want to edit something. God that's so annoying. Must have been where the old edit button was.
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chivalryder wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »@chivalryder
Question about your preparation - do you mix your dyi dry and then add water? How long do you store a ready to drink solution?
Just curious.
I had made single-day batches, three-day batches, and one week batches. I prefer the one week batches because it's an hour on the weekend to get it all done, then I don't have to worry about food at all throughout the week.
I had tried using flaxseed for my fat, but found it was WAY too much flax per serving. It was also a bit expensive. I've now gone to the typical oil. I had researched mixing tapioca maltodextrin with the oil to turn it into a powder, but I had to order it. I simply mixed the oil into the powder mix (mixed the powder first to ensure consistency) and found that the powder soaked up the oil. It just makes the powder hold together a bit better. Takes a lot of mixing to avoid clumping, but it's still a very dry powder.
I add water right before I drink. I pour a bit of water into a shaker bottle, with the spiral ball (very important to break down the clumps), then pour in the powder (get a wide mouth funnel, the ones for canning are perfect), then top it off with water. Shake well and drink immediately.
Without the oil, I just kept it in sealed containers in a cool, dry place. It's dry powder, so in a week it shouldn't go bad. Same situation as portien powder.
Now that I'm adding oil, I keep it in the fridge, just to be safe. The oil gives bacteria a second way to breed itself in the formula. Probably not much of an issue, but I'm just playing it safe. My fridge is empty otherwise.
And thanks for this, clearly you've given this a lot of thought.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »100-mile diet is the best way to go, IMO, if at all possible.
I have a friend raised on a farm, and sensitive to farmer's issues. I live in Canada in a part of the world where we measure distance in hours, driving 100 KM an hour. Our urban centers are surrounded by miles and miles of farm land, each crop best suited to the land, not location. We've got cattle, canola fields, barley, wheat, and oats.
My friend has pointed out that if everyone switched to the 100 mile diet, there'd be a whole bunch of farmers out of work. Never mind a whole bunch of hungry people. Ideal land for growing food doesn't always situate itself near large urban centers. Also, urban centers have a nasty habit of over-growing their borders and taking over prime growing land.
I think Cuba is the most successful large enterprise towards a 100 mile diet, but they are on an island. With an embargo. Where land is premium. And their residents are hungry.
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