Wal-Mart
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djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
Specifically for patients in need of care, there are, in fact, laws that say they cannot be turned away. Those people then get billed, can't pay, and we end up picking up the cost anyway. If only there was a law that mandated people get paid enough money so that if they get sick, they can afford to take care of themselves (or at least afford the insurance to do so)...
With the exception of your last sentence, you repeated my post and worded it differently. I never said those laws do not exist. I said nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. And no law changes that. Laws often violate rights, but they do not change them. And your solution is to further violate the rights of anyone who chooses to own a business. No violation of rights is acceptable.
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djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You do know that the someone who makes about $50,000 a year pays about $35 TOTAL to the SNAP program (food stamps) and $6 to all other safety net programs? You're telling me that you can't find it in your heart to not complain about putting less than $45 towards helping those less fortunate than you?
Here's where the real "welfare" is...continuing with the same imaginary person as above who makes $50,000 a year....they pay $870 for corporate subsidies, $1600 to offset corporate tax loopholes, and $1231 to offset losses from corporate overseas tax havens. That's disgusting! (source for this info is the Tax Foundation and Citizens for Tax Justice)0 -
djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
Specifically for patients in need of care, there are, in fact, laws that say they cannot be turned away. Those people then get billed, can't pay, and we end up picking up the cost anyway. If only there was a law that mandated people get paid enough money so that if they get sick, they can afford to take care of themselves (or at least afford the insurance to do so)...
With the exception of your last sentence, you repeated my post and worded it differently. And to avoid that, your solution is to further violate the rights of anyone who chooses to own a business. No violation of rights is acceptable.
My family physicians office has now gone concierge because of Obamacare. I have to pay $3800/year just to be seen there. I can't IMAGINE what another law would do to the cost.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual.
As someone who worked in a hospital, no emergency room can deny a patient medical attention. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.
I never claimed they could. But they aren't doing it for free. The cost may not be paid by the patient, but it is paid. And that does not make it an individual right.
Sorry, that wasn't what your initial post said. You just said that people weren't obligated to provide a service.
The way I originally said it came out wrong. I wasn't saying the weren't required by law to provide service. I was saying that, regardless of the law, nobody has a right to anyones time or services.
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djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
Specifically for patients in need of care, there are, in fact, laws that say they cannot be turned away. Those people then get billed, can't pay, and we end up picking up the cost anyway. If only there was a law that mandated people get paid enough money so that if they get sick, they can afford to take care of themselves (or at least afford the insurance to do so)...
With the exception of your last sentence, you repeated my post and worded it differently. And to avoid that, your solution is to further violate the rights of anyone who chooses to own a business. No violation of rights is acceptable.
Sorry, couldn't keep up with your edits.0 -
kamakazeekim wrote: »And did you know that Walmart deliberately keeps their wages low thus forcing the government to pay for health insurance and other safety net programs for its employees? They have even done food drives for their OWN employees. They also treat their employees like crap...read the book "Nickled and Dimed" I personally will not shop at Walmart.
Not everyone is meant for college or the corporate world...we need people to work the service industry job in order to function as a society. I hate when people look down on those who work at places like Walmart! They are human beings too that deserve respect. They are doing the best they can with what they have. You don't know their life circumstances. (these statements were not directed at anyone inparticular...just frustrated with the ignorance I deal with on a daily basis.)
I heard this too from a person who worked there, hummmm
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FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
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djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
Except you are assuming they made poor choices that led them to a minimum wage job. That's not always the case.0 -
DebbieLyn63 wrote: »mojohowitz wrote: »DebbieLyn63 wrote: »Why is that disgusting? Walmart is a large corporation, providing respectable income for many people. Would you rather they be sitting on their couch drawing welfare?
I'd hesitate to call $9.38 respectable in most markets.
By respectable, I meant it is an honest living, as opposed to drug dealing or prostitution. Which certainly pay a lot more, but carry a much higher risk of death or imprisonment. And not usually safe for 'take your kid to work day'.
Wait, wait, wait... are you telling me that people that don't have a lot of education and usually in a low income situation are limited to Walmart, prostitution, or becoming a drug dealer?
For one, I believe that people should be given the opportunity to earning an actual living wage, the minimum wage wasn't created so that people would also have to obtain welfare, it was created to let people earn a living that would allow them to be self-sufficient.
Somehow paying people enough to live on morphed into a concept of someone "deserving" more money. Which is kind of awful.0 -
djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
I get your sentiment here, but what is the benefit to society in this viewpoint? Why would you want someone's past mistakes, possibly from more than 20 years ago, to make them an anchor to the rest of us?0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
Except you are assuming they made poor choices that led them to a minimum wage job. That's not always the case.
Did I make any claim about their choices being poor? If so, point it out. I will gladly own up to that mistake. I just claim it is their responsibility.
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tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
Specifically for patients in need of care, there are, in fact, laws that say they cannot be turned away. Those people then get billed, can't pay, and we end up picking up the cost anyway. If only there was a law that mandated people get paid enough money so that if they get sick, they can afford to take care of themselves (or at least afford the insurance to do so)...
With the exception of your last sentence, you repeated my post and worded it differently. And to avoid that, your solution is to further violate the rights of anyone who chooses to own a business. No violation of rights is acceptable.
Sorry, couldn't keep up with your edits.
Yeah, I need to preview before I post to make sure I said something the way I meant it, rather than editing. My bad.
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djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
Except you are assuming they made poor choices that led them to a minimum wage job. That's not always the case.
Did I make any claim about their choices being poor? If so, point it out. I will gladly own up to that mistake. I just claim it is their responsibility.
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Hospitals can't, by law turn you away, BUT Medical Centers can. I found that one out the hard way when I went in the ER and forgot my insurance card. I had to either pay upfront or leave. I had to drive back home, find my card and go back.... With a 104 fever.
...... But I digress.
While I'm not a huge fan of Wal Mart, they have made some improvements over the past 5 years or so. I personally prefer to shop locally at small businesses, even if that means spending a little extra. I have friends that work there. Some love it, some hate it. I still shop there when I need to get things I can't get at my store.
I have many other issues with the cooperation but that is neither here nor there. There are pros and cons any way you look at it. They do provide jobs for people who other wise wouldn't have one. They also drive out a lot of small businesses because they just can't compete. Pick you poison I guess?0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
I get your sentiment here, but what is the benefit to society in this viewpoint? Why would you want someone's past mistakes, possibly from more than 20 years ago, to make them an anchor to the rest of us?
You are under the assumption that they wouldn't be an anchor to the rest of us with a law requiring vastly higher pay for a job that is has nowhere near a free market value of that pay. You seem to be under the assumption that all these costs would be absorbed by the company, and would have not impact on anyone besides the person being paid.
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Big corporations are making record high profits while paying their employees record low wages. In a free market shouldn't those wages increase to keep up with the high profit?0
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FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
Except you are assuming they made poor choices that led them to a minimum wage job. That's not always the case.
Did I make any claim about their choices being poor? If so, point it out. I will gladly own up to that mistake. I just claim it is their responsibility.
Which has no impact on the discussion at hand. Out of my closest group of friends, one is a factory worker, and the another is a minimum wage line cook who I am actually helping get his foot in the door with the local IBEW (my dad's old union). I think I am better than no one, including them. Even though I am much better off financially. To expect one to be responsible for their own lot in life is not a sign of pride. It is a sign of someone who understands personal responsibility.
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kamakazeekim wrote: »Big corporations are making record high profits while paying their employees record low wages. In a free market shouldn't those wages increase to keep up with the high profit?
gotta source on the record low wages?0 -
kamakazeekim wrote: »Big corporations are making record high profits while paying their employees record low wages. In a free market shouldn't those wages increase to keep up with the high profit?
Yes, but the big corporations and their executives prefer to keep the money for themselves. A typical scenario is this: Big corporation has a concern. Hires a new CEO. New CEO fires thousands of people. Stockholders are happy. Employees take pay cuts. Two years later new CEO is out with big golden parachute. Repeat the cycle.
As far as Walmart is concerned, I think Walmart is just one of many.
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