Clean Eating

beth557755

lemurcat12 wrote: »

beth557755 wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

beth557755 wrote: »

I feel fuller and can it more food by eating "clean". That to me is eating whole foods like whole grains, veggies, fruit etc. basically unprocessed food.

How are whole grains not processed?

I'd actually be interested in a response to my comment upthread, not that I'm optimistic I'll get one or an actual discussion.

I guess I could eat pop tarts and microwave meals and still hit my calorie goals and lose weight, but I prefer the good stuff for my body because I want to lose and keep the weight off so changing the foods I eat and tastebuds to those I think will help me in the long run because it will be my new "base" foods.

Tons of "non clean" foods are reasonably considered "good stuff" (again, see my post above) and go well beyond the proverbial pop tarts. Also, although I have zero interest in eating them, not cutting pop tarts out of one's diet doesn't mean they eat a diet made up of pop tarts.

Also, I make myself microwave meals for lunch all the time (in that I make the meal from whole foods and put it in tupperware to bring to work). Similarly, I can buy a whole range of reheatable options, some of which claim to be "clean" (company marketing based on that), and many of which are store-bought but seem to have decent ingredients. I don't buy them since I prefer to cook (or just buy food I like for lunch, again with ingredients similar to what I'd use, so I'm not sure why that makes it "unclean"), but choosing a healthy microwave meal might be a nutritious option for someone. Isn't whether a meal heated in the microwave is healthy or not depend on what's actually in it, not that it's in a form to be reheated?

Wow you are taking this way too seriously.

Not really. My tone was off if it sounded like that. It's just this conversation comes up a lot and it gets frustrating never to get a response to genuine questions raised while people ignore the posts and go right on about "eating clean" and avoiding "processed" foods which are allegedly all unhealthy and so on as if there was even a consistent meaning to "clean" or even "processed." That's what I tried to explain in my post above, and then you ignored it (which is fine, you can answer what you want) and posted as if "processed" meant bad or unhealthy. So I wanted to point out again that that's by no means true. Like you I choose to eat a variety of processed foods in many cases BECAUSE I think they are healthy (as well as liking them). Thus, I don't think the claim that processed foods are unhealthy makes much sense and I'm still confused about what clean is supposed to mean.

Like I said, I am interested in a real conversation, so if you have anything to say to my post above I'd be interested.

I am by no means one of those militant people on "clean" foods. I was referencing me with the pop tarts and microwavable food which I have lived off of for years and years, the unhealthy meals until they cut gallbladder out.

My point (and mamapeach's, I think) is that there are lots of "processed" foods that aren't poptarts or the worst microwaveable meals (there are even decent microwaveable meals, although I don't use them). Whether or not someone defines as a "clean" eater doesn't appear to be about whether they eat more or less nutritiously.

I primarily ate junk pure junk. So me switching things up to actually cooking stuff and making quinoa, millet, buckwheat, amaranth, and oatmeal etc. as a unprocessed or rather if you want to get all technical, minimally processed food instead of the highly processed carbs like bread, pasta, etc is what I found to be better for me.

I think improving your diet is great. I just don't think it means eating "processed" vs. "unprocessed" or that "clean" has any meaningful definition.

Also, why are quinoa, etc., inherently better than whole grain bread or pasta, say?

In my experience making that stuff with veggies, fruit, healthy fats, and lean meats fills me up more than a tiny microwavable meal or something I can grab ready made at the store with unhealthy ingredients.

I agree with this. It's not what I'm disagreeing about at all (except that I know where you can get microwaveable meals that appear to me basically identical to something I would make with veggies and high-quality, well-sourced protein).

Eating "clean" from what I understand or choose to believe is about eating whole foods that are unprocessed or minimally processed. Therefore it lessens the added junk such as excessive salt, fillers like soy and corn, and added chemicals that they add into food such as MSG, preservatives, and other chemical junk etc. So it is avoiding the crap that they add into food or turn into food, the lab crated junk and keeping the food clean of that stuff. Of course the term can be subjected to different meanings or rather strictnesses. I see it as basically sticking to natural foods instead of franken foods created in a lab. Some people don't mind added chemicals or cheap fillers and some people do. Some people can be sensitive, allergic, or intolerant to the chemicals and additives that companies add to food. You can tell if a product is heavily processed and stuffed with cheap additives and chemicals by looking at the ingredient list. If you get a microwavable meal of lets say chicken and mashed potatoes and the ingredient list is half a mile long and is full of unpronounceable words, then that is what I considered a franken food as opposed to listing just chicken, potatoes, and easily recognizable flavorings etc. Do I personally believe all microwavable, prepared, or whole foods processed into a different form are all crap, not clean, and should be avoided? Nope. I have Ezekiel sprouted corn tortillas in my freezer now. The only ingredients listed is organic sprouted corn, filtered water, sea salt, and lime. I also have store bought hummus. I even have some Bakery on Main instant oatmeal on hand for when I have no time. I don't slash my wrists because it isn't steel cut oats. The brand Evol has microwave meals with a pretty clean ingredient list as well and taste pretty badass. Also Blake's is awesome. Now do I feel as full eating my Blake's gluten free chicken pot pie as opposed to making a homemade dish at home that I can really stretch out my calories over more food...no. That was the only point I was trying to make with that. I see "clean" as being free of unnecessary added junk and potentially harmful chemicals. Now are their people eating clean who believe you should be eating the actual corn kernels instead of corn tortillas...yes. There are also people who prefer to make their own hummus to be in control of what they put in it. There is not just one view of "clean". That is like trying do define "healthy".

In regards to quinoa etc. being inherently better than whole grain bread or pasta. I never mentioned the bread and pasta as being whole grain. I can see how you would be like wtf if you thought I was comparing it to whole grain, bread, and pasta and saying it was somehow less healthy than whipping up a batch of quinoa or millet from their little untransformed seed. I was comparing complex carbs vs. simple carbs. I pretty much base things on the ingredient list or lack of an ingredient list as being clean or whole foods. I am chemically sensitive, have food intolerances, and allergies so I personally benefit from eating "clean" foods. Others probably don't or don't care and that is fine.

beth557755

Oh and I think you mentioned some people viewing frozen vegetables and fruits as less than the fresh. They flash freeze vegetables and fruits after they are fully ripened which locks the vegetables in a nutrient rich state. Some water-soluble nutrients like vitamin C and B break down or leach out from blanching them in hot water to kill bacteria and to prevent food from degrading, but fresh food shipped out are typically picked before they ripen which gives them less time to develop their nutrients. Even if they look ripe in the store, they only have the nutrients developed when they were picked. Of course this can be avoided if you eat locally grown fruit and vegetables and stuff in season. I buy frozen fruits and vegetables all the time. They tend to be cheaper and last a lot longer. Plus it is slim pickings to find decent fruit and vegetables out of all the rotten gross "fresh" fruit and veggies they tend to have on display where I shop. I'd be damned if I actually find an un-moldy or un-squishy orange or avacado somewhere. It's pretty sad.

lemurcat12

beth557755 wrote: »

Eating "clean" from what I understand or choose to believe is about eating whole foods that are unprocessed or minimally processed.

This is one definition, but hardly the only one. That's why I responded as I did to OP (nicely, but pointing out that the term is confusing). I'm really not sure why you would choose to use a confusing term that means different things to different people rather than just saying what you mean--that you try to base your diet on whole or minimally processed foods.

So do I, although I don't pretend that makes it healthier (it does for me, because I tend to eat better that way, but might not be the best approach for someone else). I also don't see any reason why trying to completely exclude "processed" products even when my judgment is that they are healthy is a goal (setting aside the matter of treats also).

Therefore it lessens the added junk such as excessive salt, fillers like soy and corn, and added chemicals that they add into food such as MSG, preservatives, and other chemical junk etc.

Can't you do this just by avoiding the specific products that have these things in them (or whatever else you disapprove of)? That's what I do--although what bothers me vs. what bothers you might be different--but I don't generalize to all processed foods (like my beloved Fage 2%) or pretend that something I approve of isn't actually "processed."

I might have a different take on this just because "quitting" highly processed things was never an issue for me in that I never really ate them much. Certainly not poptarts or microwave dinners.

Do I personally believe all microwavable, prepared, or whole foods processed into a different form are all crap, not clean, and should be avoided? Nope. I have Ezekiel sprouted corn tortillas in my freezer now.

Right--this is basically the point I was making. When you go on about "processed" foods you are including lots of stuff that you might actually think is perfectly good to include in even your own diet, and other people (who admit they don't eat clean) are simply saying the same thing and in some cases making different judgments. I eat processed products that I consider healthy within the context of my overall diet. Not eating "clean" (or rejecting the term because it's silly and vague) doesn't mean that one doesn't care about nutrition and accepting rather confusing and pointless assertions about no more "processed" foods that almost no one really follows isn't especially helpful to someone trying to improve her diet. Why not advise people to just learn a little about nutrition or realize that they probably already know quite a lot (like veggies are good to include), rather than confusing the issue by going on about "eating clean" or avoiding processed products as if there weren't plenty of good things that are processed (like all non-homemade breads of any sort, smoked salmon, dairy products, skinless, boneless chicken breast (if one must), etc.).

I don't slash my wrists because it isn't steel cut oats.

That's funny--I only like steel cut oats, and I'd say they disqualify me from being a "clean eater," since processed, obviously. (Also some people consider grains in general not "clean.")

The brand Evol has microwave meals with a pretty clean ingredient list as well and taste pretty badass.

Yes, exactly! I don't eat them because I don't eat microwave meals, but this is what I meant when I said you were overgeneralizing. But these are, of course, processed, so if you eat them you (like me) are eating processed products that you judge contribute to your overall diet. That was the point, that there's no reason not to do that (and almost everyone who claims they don't really do).

I see "clean" as being free of unnecessary added junk and potentially harmful chemicals. Now are their people eating clean who believe you should be eating the actual corn kernels instead of corn tortillas...yes. There are also people who prefer to make their own hummus to be in control of what they put in it. There is not just one view of "clean". That is like trying do define "healthy".

Yes, so why bother with a term that means nothing? With "healthy" it means something--contributes to health. We can argue about what that is, but it's different than the semantic argument that "clean" becomes. (Many would say corn simply is not "clean" which annoys me since I can buy in-season local corn and there's little better.)

lemurcat12

beth557755 wrote: »

Oh and I think you mentioned some people viewing frozen vegetables and fruits as less than the fresh.

No, I definitely did not. I might have mentioned them as "processed," which they are (and thus not "clean"), as part of my argument that processing is not bad.

Where I live, there's a long winter season where one can't get fresh local produce. Similarly, most types of fish wouldn't be available. Thus, processing (which allows for the sale of things that are not locally available and in season in a variety of ways) is a huge boon for my ability to eat a healthy diet. That was my point. I totally agree that the nutritional value of frozen veggies is typically better than other veggies in the store, certainly when they are out of season and from far away (or simply from far away). To claim out of season veggies/carted in from who knows where veggies are any less "processed" is actually quite odd in itself, as their presence is entirely artificial.

And yet I do eat them (within my judgment) all the time (as do most people who claim to be "clean" eaters), since I think they can contribute to a healthy diet and taste good. Sure, it would be nice to grow everything I eat or buy it from local farmers, but in January or even early April that's not realistic many places, including where I am.

My argument, again, is not with your diet (or anyone's), but with the use of the term "clean" or setting up this claim that people either eat "clean" (and avoid all processed foods) or are eating "junk" all the time. For me, saying I don't eat clean means that I'm not making false claims about the evils of processing when I think processing can do lots of good. (It also means I'm not claiming that I aspire to never eat sweets of any sort, including homemade, ever again, as I don't see any reason to aspire to that. Health does not require it at all.)

There are specific "processed" products that I do not eat, of course, for specific reasons that I may or may not think apply to other people. But to claim that everyone would do better to never eat any microwave meals (even those you have conceded fit your own ideas of what is healthy) is to confuse the issue and place a burden on people who may be coming from a place where they don't eat balanced meals with veggies at all or know how to cook or for whom the main priority is just losing weight and gradually improving their diets and for whom the meals in question (or even others that you don't like so well) may be really helpful.

beth557755

LOL... I never claimed to be a purist and I definitely don't ride hard under the banner of "clean" eating, that is the conclusion and assumption YOU came up with, not me. You know...you do a hell of a lot of assuming and filling in the blanks instead of pausing and not jumping quickly to a conclusion without all the facts and simply asking for more information and clarity. God you remind of my sister. Oh and thanks for thinking that I am all that important that a simple phrase or word I used in a short and vague paragraph under the topic of "clean" eating would have a major impact of someone's view and diet. Also by believing this, you are assuming people are actually that ignorant and stupid in that they would be gravely affected or mislead by a phrase or word that they read online by a stranger on a message board and wouldn't do any research on the topic or seek other information to be more informed or to validate or fact check. If you think it is your mission or responsibility or even have that kind of impact to change the world and greatly help others by not using the phrases "clean eating", "whole foods", and 'unprocessed foods" then I say wow, do what you feel you need to do. If you are the type of person who needs to be right, or needs to impose your views on others, or feel you are in a position to judge or criticize someone with a different perspective, then good luck with that. Life will be very, very hard if it's not already. You on that majestic horse way way up in the sky shinning your light of truth on me and illuminating the err of my ways hasn't done a damn thing but proven your argumentative nature, your inability to respect others views and opinions, and your lack restraint to not intervene or try to impose your views on others. Oh and I already clarified my definition of "clean" and what I meant and who I was referring to by my mention of microwavable meals, yet you choose to disregard that and continue with your misinterpretation on it. That says a lot. I'm so bored and over this. It's like you don't realize you are pretty much shadow boxing with yourself. You are only battling and arguing against your own false conclusions, twist of information, and presumptions. Hey... maybe that is what gets you off, or maybe you truly can't tell the difference. I don't know. Good luck to you.

ana3067

Just to point out how arbitrary this concept is: When I "ate clean" I struggled as to whether or not I was allowed to eat PLAIN BROWN RICE CAKES as part of my diet or if that would be "bad."

So, a "clean eater" not even sure what constituted "clean" and "unclean." This would have been like, near my 3rd or 4th year of eating "clean" btw.

jkal1979

lemurcat12 wrote: »

What's the weird obsession with poptarts?

I'm wondering that too. It seems like just about every clean eating thread I read there seems to be some weird belief that those who don't follow a 100% clean diet (noun) eat nothing but pop tarts and twinkies.

lemurcat12

beth557755 wrote: »

You know...you do a hell of a lot of assuming and filling in the blanks instead of pausing and not jumping quickly to a conclusion without all the facts and simply asking for more information and clarity.

What did I assume? I wrote a post early on in this thread about why I think "clean" eating or focusing on "processed" vs. "unprocessed" food is not especially helpful and then you jumped in to go on about clean eating vs. poptarts, so I responded.

I made no assumptions about your diet (well, other than that you of course do eat processed foods, but you seem to agree with that). You are the one personalizing it for some odd reason. (I do feel a bit sorry for your sister, though.)

beth557755

I only mentioned Pop Tarts on this thread because that is what I ate for the month of December along with microwavable meals. Stayed within my calories, but always felt hungry. That is all.

tomatoey

OP what do you want to do? Do you just want to cook more often and include more veggies etc in your diet, or are you thinking about the other stuff people sometimes mean when they talk about "clean eating"? I took you to mean the first, so that's why I answered the way I did. If you want more of those kinds of answers, I suggest you start a new thread (and don't use the phrase "clean eating").

lemurcat12

I don't think the OP is the issue anymore.

OP in post 12 of the thread.

Aydeejai wrote: »

I agree. After researching it, I don't think it's for me...

Also, just FTR, I didn't jump on OP for using the term at all. I said:

The problem is that people use "clean" to refer to totally different ways of eating or different rules, and seem to define even "processed" and "junk" quite differently.

For example,... I find this confusing.

So I am in favor of healthy eating and interested in a discussion of how to improve one's diet to be more nutritious (and am always interested in good ideas about that), but I really don't get the "clean" thing at all.

Not that anyone cares, but this is my current approach when this topic comes up, to try and move the discussion away from the term and to what OP wants to do, after briefly explaining why many people object to the term or react to it in a particular way.

ana3067

beth557755 wrote: »

I only mentioned Pop Tarts on this thread because that is what I ate for the month of December along with microwavable meals. Stayed within my calories, but always felt hungry. That is all.

Because that's basically all carbs. You would have had similar results if you'd only eaten fruit and veggies. Protein and fat = satiety.

tomatoey

lemurcat12 wrote: »

I don't think the OP is the issue anymore.

OP in post 12 of the thread.

Aydeejai wrote: »

I agree. After researching it, I don't think it's for me...

Also, just FTR, I didn't jump on OP for using the term at all. I said:

The problem is that people use "clean" to refer to totally different ways of eating or different rules, and seem to define even "processed" and "junk" quite differently.

For example,... I find this confusing.

So I am in favor of healthy eating and interested in a discussion of how to improve one's diet to be more nutritious (and am always interested in good ideas about that), but I really don't get the "clean" thing at all.

Not that anyone cares, but this is my current approach when this topic comes up, to try and move the discussion away from the term and to what OP wants to do, after briefly explaining why many people object to the term or react to it in a particular way.

Ah, missed that she'd left, ok, thanks.

I didn't think you were jumping on the OP at all.

lemurcat12

I didn't think you were accusing me, but wanted credit for thinking along the same lines you were. ;-) (I did sound a bit more defensive than intended in that comment, oops.)

LAWoman72

ana3067 wrote: »

beth557755 wrote: »

I only mentioned Pop Tarts on this thread because that is what I ate for the month of December along with microwavable meals. Stayed within my calories, but always felt hungry. That is all.

Because that's basically all carbs. You would have had similar results if you'd only eaten fruit and veggies. Protein and fat = satiety.

This is what I've found too. I love my carbs but if I don't pair them with a protein, I'm left pretty hungry.

Need2Exerc1se

LAWoman72 wrote: »

ana3067 wrote: »

beth557755 wrote: »

I only mentioned Pop Tarts on this thread because that is what I ate for the month of December along with microwavable meals. Stayed within my calories, but always felt hungry. That is all.

Because that's basically all carbs. You would have had similar results if you'd only eaten fruit and veggies. Protein and fat = satiety.

This is what I've found too. I love my carbs but if I don't pair them with a protein, I'm left pretty hungry.

I find this to only be true if the carbs are low fiber. High fiber carbs are just as filling as carbs w/ protein for me.

lemurcat12

Me also, LA Woman.

That's why my old bagel breakfast was a bad idea and home baked bread would have been just as crummy. (Oh, I am such a wit!)

Also why I find the idea of a smoothie breakfast not for me, along with not finding calories I drink satiating, and why oatmeal plus fruit does not work unless I add protein powder and some kind of fat.

Higher fiber isn't enough to make it work for me for a meal if the carbs aren't paired with fat and protein. Fruit or veggies work fine as a snack.

ana3067

LAWoman72 wrote: »

ana3067 wrote: »

beth557755 wrote: »

I only mentioned Pop Tarts on this thread because that is what I ate for the month of December along with microwavable meals. Stayed within my calories, but always felt hungry. That is all.

Because that's basically all carbs. You would have had similar results if you'd only eaten fruit and veggies. Protein and fat = satiety.

This is what I've found too. I love my carbs but if I don't pair them with a protein, I'm left pretty hungry.

I ate like 100g of carbs for lunch yesterday. Did pair it with protein and fat, but not nearly enough because about 3.5 hours later I was STARVING. And I can normally go about 5-6 hours after lunch before feeling the need to eat!

I don't do well on high-carb for breakfast and lunch, though (higher carb before workouts thoug, but that does leave me hungry way sooner after the workout than I'd like), I prefer to eat higher carb in the evening unless I'm having a super lazy day.

tomatoey

lemurcat12 wrote: »

I didn't think you were accusing me, but wanted credit for thinking along the same lines you were. ;-) (I did sound a bit more defensive than intended in that comment, oops.)

Lol no worries You have the credit!

LAWoman72

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Me also, LA Woman.

That's why my old bagel breakfast was a bad idea and home baked bread would have been just as crummy. (Oh, I am such a wit!)

Also why I find the idea of a smoothie breakfast not for me, along with not finding calories I drink satiating, and why oatmeal plus fruit does not work unless I add protein powder and some kind of fat.

Higher fiber isn't enough to make it work for me for a meal if the carbs aren't paired with fat and protein. Fruit or veggies work fine as a snack.

We were definitely separated at birth and by the way, I love your kitty. I NEED to kiss that cat on the nose. Whether he wants same or not. Hey, I'm bigger than you, you WILL let me kiss you...At least that's what I always tell my cat. What's he gonna say about it? I mean I bring the food.