Book: The science of fat loss
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slowbutsure2
Posts: 110
Hi all
Just reading Phil Richard's mamoth book, The science of fat loss. My personal trainer was trained by Phil,
who also trains athletes and boxers etc. its a but technical but I have found it helpful. Warning: those who
are in the "it's just calories in and out" camp won't like it as the whole book dispels that myth. (No offence intended)
As an example, I have suffered with stress and depression and have found it impossible to lose weight. Phil explains
the effect of cortisol on fat loss etc (and sleep etc). he mentions three supplements, pregnenolone and Phosphatidylserine, and phosphatidylcholine. After a week of taking these the stress and depression were gone and I started losing weight again.
Before and after: same personal trainer, diet, and exercise routine.
Anyway, just wanted to mention what has helped me.
Just reading Phil Richard's mamoth book, The science of fat loss. My personal trainer was trained by Phil,
who also trains athletes and boxers etc. its a but technical but I have found it helpful. Warning: those who
are in the "it's just calories in and out" camp won't like it as the whole book dispels that myth. (No offence intended)
As an example, I have suffered with stress and depression and have found it impossible to lose weight. Phil explains
the effect of cortisol on fat loss etc (and sleep etc). he mentions three supplements, pregnenolone and Phosphatidylserine, and phosphatidylcholine. After a week of taking these the stress and depression were gone and I started losing weight again.
Before and after: same personal trainer, diet, and exercise routine.
Anyway, just wanted to mention what has helped me.
-5
Replies
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Says CICO is a myth, then pushes expensive supplements. Sounds legit
Oh and cortisol plays a role in fat burning
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/120678580 -
Whatever works for you my friend. Perhaps for reasonably healthy people CICO is true but it ain't the whole truth. And to someone with real depression and stress, spending a bit on some supplements (not from Phil, he doesn't sell them) is nothing. Most people would actually and really give their right arm to live in the light again.0
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CICO is not a "myth"
if you have some sort of other condition effecting your CICO equation then yeah, you need to figure out how to address it0 -
4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »CICO is not a "myth"
if you have some sort of other condition effecting your CICO equation then yeah, you need to figure out how to address it
No, it's not a myth. What is a myth is that CICO is all there is to weight loss.0 -
slowbutsure2 wrote: »Whatever works for you my friend. Perhaps for reasonably healthy people CICO is true but it ain't the whole truth. And to someone with real depression and stress, spending a bit on some supplements (not from Phil, he doesn't sell them) is nothing. Most people would actually and really give their right arm to live in the light again.
speaking from a personal experience, no I would not spend money on what some "trainer" told me. I got professional help, i'm not going to pay from some BS0 -
slowbutsure2 wrote: »Whatever works for you my friend. Perhaps for reasonably healthy people CICO is true but it ain't the whole truth. And to someone with real depression and stress, spending a bit on some supplements (not from Phil, he doesn't sell them) is nothing. Most people would actually and really give their right arm to live in the light again.
If you got depression you should go to a doctor, not selfmedicate with supplements.0 -
You don't understand what CICO means, then. And that's OK - many people think they do, but really don't.
As has been alluded to - hormones and medical conditions, among other things, affect the CO part of the equation. CICO isn't just eating what some online "calculator" tells you to eat. Those "calculators" are just estimates, based on averages.
For many people, they seem to think that - if MFP tells them to eat x amount to lose 1 lb per week - they'll lose that 1 lb per week, no matter what. When that doesn't happen, they claim that CICO doesn't work. What they failed to do - in addition to those that don't log/measure/account for exercise and activity accurately - is take into account any medical issues they may have. Sometimes, they don't even know this at first, until things don't work like they think they should and they end up going to a doctor and finding out something is wrong. Some online estimators don't take body composition into account, either. That's another factor that plays into your own individual CO.
In short, CICO works. For many (most?) people, 2+2=4, no real problem. For others, with various conditions, 2+2+x+y+z=q. Once you figure out what x, y, and z are, you can then determine q.0 -
If there is an underlying issue to the weight, such as stress or depression, you have to address that before you can be successful maintaining anything...including CICO. Once you tame the brain, you begin to move, hope, and enjoy life more. Then weight loss becomes something you can do! Good for you OP for seeking the underlying cause and getting a plan in place to make you healthier. As with anything, if you don't address the root of the issue, you are just putting a bandaid on. Bandaids don't last.0
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Steven your assuming that I haven't been to a doctor and am not on prescribed medication. Both assumptions would be false for the last two years. However, the medication came nowhere near to dealing with the problem, and the dose could not be increased any further as I have a dodgy liver. Since 'self medicating' I have successfully come off half of my prescribed meds, and have been back to my doctor to explain what I'm taking, and what effect it has had. With the undeniable effect he has asked to give me any information I have on the supplements / find. I am dropping a book in by another doctor on Pregnenolone.0
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lowendfuzz wrote: »slowbutsure2 wrote: »Whatever works for you my friend. Perhaps for reasonably healthy people CICO is true but it ain't the whole truth. And to someone with real depression and stress, spending a bit on some supplements (not from Phil, he doesn't sell them) is nothing. Most people would actually and really give their right arm to live in the light again.
speaking from a personal experience, no I would not spend money on what some "trainer" told me. I got professional help, i'm not going to pay from some BS
Don't you think that's a bit naive? A professional is someone qualified in their field and earn their living from it. That would be Phil Johnson. And other professional athletes like Amhir Khan (boxer) pay Phil for his professional services. Calling something BS without having studied it is not really that clever. I do understand the cynicism as there is a lot of rubbish and nonsense out there. I posted this as I think it is not in that category.0 -
Never read the book myself. I have read several and dealt with weight issues all of my life. What I have learned with what I have read and with experience that calories play a role but not the way you think. It's the type of calories that make a difference. Protein, carbs, SUGAR, fats. I found that eating what ever I wanted in terms of protein no carbs didn't work I still gained. Cutting calories to a good level and then adding enough exercise to burn off pounds, nope didn't work either. I eat 90% or more whole foods, I rarely eat anything I didn't make from scratch still gained or lost nothing (felt better though).
Some people and those who tend to suffer from depression do much better decreasing sugar (even natural from fruit) and keeping the carbs they eat to very complex. That being said even removing excess sugar and carbs or if you eat and then remove fried/breaded foods you can still over eat other foods and your body does store excess energy in it fuel reserves (Fat). I too have depression issues and have discovered that certain foods just effect it, so I avoid them. Depression does affect not only your weight but your overall health.
If you have found something that is working for you I think that is wonderful. Remember everyone is different. Some can carb load around their workouts and loose weight, while other of us it just doesn't work. Some can stick to higher protein and continue to loose weight after the initial 2 or 3 weeks, me nope didn't work. I am hoping that it all goes great for you! It's tough to find what works best for yourself as an individual.
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albalegume wrote: »If there is an underlying issue to the weight, such as stress or depression, you have to address that before you can be successful maintaining anything...including CICO. Once you tame the brain, you begin to move, hope, and enjoy life more. Then weight loss becomes something you can do! Good for you OP for seeking the underlying cause and getting a plan in place to make you healthier. As with anything, if you don't address the root of the issue, you are just putting a bandaid on. Bandaids don't last.
Thanks, that's been exactly the case.0 -
slowbutsure2 wrote: »lowendfuzz wrote: »slowbutsure2 wrote: »Whatever works for you my friend. Perhaps for reasonably healthy people CICO is true but it ain't the whole truth. And to someone with real depression and stress, spending a bit on some supplements (not from Phil, he doesn't sell them) is nothing. Most people would actually and really give their right arm to live in the light again.
speaking from a personal experience, no I would not spend money on what some "trainer" told me. I got professional help, i'm not going to pay from some BS
Don't you think that's a bit naive? A professional is someone qualified in their field and earn their living from it. That would be Phil Johnson. And other professional athletes like Amhir Khan (boxer) pay Phil for his professional services. Calling something BS without having studied it is not really that clever. I do understand the cynicism as there is a lot of rubbish and nonsense out there. I posted this as I think it is not in that category.
They are pushing supplements, and saying CICO is a myth despite decades worth of metabolic ward research on obese ie "not healthy" patients. Yeah, I'll file that under pseudoscience.0 -
slowbutsure2 wrote: »lowendfuzz wrote: »slowbutsure2 wrote: »Whatever works for you my friend. Perhaps for reasonably healthy people CICO is true but it ain't the whole truth. And to someone with real depression and stress, spending a bit on some supplements (not from Phil, he doesn't sell them) is nothing. Most people would actually and really give their right arm to live in the light again.
speaking from a personal experience, no I would not spend money on what some "trainer" told me. I got professional help, i'm not going to pay from some BS
Don't you think that's a bit naive? A professional is someone qualified in their field and earn their living from it. That would be Phil Johnson. And other professional athletes like Amhir Khan (boxer) pay Phil for his professional services. Calling something BS without having studied it is not really that clever. I do understand the cynicism as there is a lot of rubbish and nonsense out there. I posted this as I think it is not in that category.
You may not think it's in that category but when someone claims cico is a myth just to sell some supplements and books that says it all. Also just because he has trained some high profile people and does get some results does not prove what he's preaching is correct. There are so many so called 'Professional in their fields' that have there own agendas.
It's great that you have finally shift some weight as you wanted but the reason your losing weight still comes down to CICO despite what you believe the real science says this. Good luck0 -
albalegume wrote: »If there is an underlying issue to the weight, such as stress or depression, you have to address that before you can be successful maintaining anything...including CICO. Once you tame the brain, you begin to move, hope, and enjoy life more. Then weight loss becomes something you can do! Good for you OP for seeking the underlying cause and getting a plan in place to make you healthier. As with anything, if you don't address the root of the issue, you are just putting a bandaid on. Bandaids don't last.
Amen0 -
You don't understand what CICO means, then. And that's OK - many people think they do, but really don't.
As has been alluded to - hormones and medical conditions, among other things, affect the CO part of the equation. CICO isn't just eating what some online "calculator" tells you to eat. Those "calculators" are just estimates, based on averages.
For many people, they seem to think that - if MFP tells them to eat x amount to lose 1 lb per week - they'll lose that 1 lb per week, no matter what. When that doesn't happen, they claim that CICO doesn't work. What they failed to do - in addition to those that don't log/measure/account for exercise and activity accurately - is take into account any medical issues they may have. Sometimes, they don't even know this at first, until things don't work like they think they should and they end up going to a doctor and finding out something is wrong. Some online estimators don't take body composition into account, either. That's another factor that plays into your own individual CO.
In short, CICO works. For many (most?) people, 2+2=4, no real problem. For others, with various conditions, 2+2+x+y+z=q. Once you figure out what x, y, and z are, you can then determine q.
I do understand CICo, and I don't think you have said anything that I haven't said here. What i said in my original post is that it's not 'just' cico, and that's it. There are many threads here where people are blasted for not getting that it's just cico and they must be either eating more than they think or burning less than they think. As you say, this can be wrong it can be cico + xyz. I'm hoping that the people in that camp might be less dogmatic.0 -
isulo_kura wrote: »slowbutsure2 wrote: »lowendfuzz wrote: »slowbutsure2 wrote: »Whatever works for you my friend. Perhaps for reasonably healthy people CICO is true but it ain't the whole truth. And to someone with real depression and stress, spending a bit on some supplements (not from Phil, he doesn't sell them) is nothing. Most people would actually and really give their right arm to live in the light again.
speaking from a personal experience, no I would not spend money on what some "trainer" told me. I got professional help, i'm not going to pay from some BS
Don't you think that's a bit naive? A professional is someone qualified in their field and earn their living from it. That would be Phil Johnson. And other professional athletes like Amhir Khan (boxer) pay Phil for his professional services. Calling something BS without having studied it is not really that clever. I do understand the cynicism as there is a lot of rubbish and nonsense out there. I posted this as I think it is not in that category.
You may not think it's in that category but when someone claims cico is a myth just to sell some supplements and books that says it all. Also just because he has trained some high profile people and does get some results does not prove what he's preaching is correct. There are so many so called 'Professional in their fields' that have there own agendas.
It's great that you have finally shift some weight as you wanted but the reason your losing weight still comes down to CICO despite what you believe the real science says this. Good luck
I never said cico is a myth and neither does Phil Johnson, you are putting words in our mouths. What I said was 'just' cico. There can be much more to weight loss than just cico. I would have actually thought it was a self evident truth.0 -
slowbutsure2 wrote: »You don't understand what CICO means, then. And that's OK - many people think they do, but really don't.
As has been alluded to - hormones and medical conditions, among other things, affect the CO part of the equation. CICO isn't just eating what some online "calculator" tells you to eat. Those "calculators" are just estimates, based on averages.
For many people, they seem to think that - if MFP tells them to eat x amount to lose 1 lb per week - they'll lose that 1 lb per week, no matter what. When that doesn't happen, they claim that CICO doesn't work. What they failed to do - in addition to those that don't log/measure/account for exercise and activity accurately - is take into account any medical issues they may have. Sometimes, they don't even know this at first, until things don't work like they think they should and they end up going to a doctor and finding out something is wrong. Some online estimators don't take body composition into account, either. That's another factor that plays into your own individual CO.
In short, CICO works. For many (most?) people, 2+2=4, no real problem. For others, with various conditions, 2+2+x+y+z=q. Once you figure out what x, y, and z are, you can then determine q.
I do understand CICo, and I don't think you have said anything that I haven't said here. What i said in my original post is that it's not 'just' cico, and that's it. There are many threads here where people are blasted for not getting that it's just cico and they must be either eating more than they think or burning less than they think. As you say, this can be wrong it can be cico + xyz. I'm hoping that the people in that camp might be less dogmatic.
You really don't understand CICO. You were told multiple times that that "xyz" you're talking about is the CO part.0 -
slowbutsure2 wrote: »lowendfuzz wrote: »slowbutsure2 wrote: »Whatever works for you my friend. Perhaps for reasonably healthy people CICO is true but it ain't the whole truth. And to someone with real depression and stress, spending a bit on some supplements (not from Phil, he doesn't sell them) is nothing. Most people would actually and really give their right arm to live in the light again.
speaking from a personal experience, no I would not spend money on what some "trainer" told me. I got professional help, i'm not going to pay from some BS
Don't you think that's a bit naive? A professional is someone qualified in their field and earn their living from it. That would be Phil Johnson. And other professional athletes like Amhir Khan (boxer) pay Phil for his professional services. Calling something BS without having studied it is not really that clever. I do understand the cynicism as there is a lot of rubbish and nonsense out there. I posted this as I think it is not in that category.
They are pushing supplements, and saying CICO is a myth despite decades worth of metabolic ward research on obese ie "not healthy" patients. Yeah, I'll file that under pseudoscience.
My friend, you are absolutising in order to win cheap points and feel good about quickly dismissing something. Not a very scientific approach. I would suggest you get or borrow the book, read all the peer reviewed research that it quotes and is based on, and then come to an intelligent, informed decision. If you don't want to do that then the only other intelligent thing to do is suspend judgment.
Of course, eggs, milk and full fat everything has been declared bad for decades by nutritional scientists, and promoted by doctors, governments and health organisations. Now, that hasn't been over turned recently by scientific progress, has it?0 -
slowbutsure2 wrote: »slowbutsure2 wrote: »lowendfuzz wrote: »slowbutsure2 wrote: »Whatever works for you my friend. Perhaps for reasonably healthy people CICO is true but it ain't the whole truth. And to someone with real depression and stress, spending a bit on some supplements (not from Phil, he doesn't sell them) is nothing. Most people would actually and really give their right arm to live in the light again.
speaking from a personal experience, no I would not spend money on what some "trainer" told me. I got professional help, i'm not going to pay from some BS
Don't you think that's a bit naive? A professional is someone qualified in their field and earn their living from it. That would be Phil Johnson. And other professional athletes like Amhir Khan (boxer) pay Phil for his professional services. Calling something BS without having studied it is not really that clever. I do understand the cynicism as there is a lot of rubbish and nonsense out there. I posted this as I think it is not in that category.
They are pushing supplements, and saying CICO is a myth despite decades worth of metabolic ward research on obese ie "not healthy" patients. Yeah, I'll file that under pseudoscience.
My friend, you are absolutising in order to win cheap points and feel good about quickly dismissing something. Not a very scientific approach. I would suggest you get or borrow the book, read all the peer reviewed research that it quotes and is based on, and then come to an intelligent, informed decision. If you don't want to do that then the only other intelligent thing to do is suspend judgment.
Of course, eggs, milk and full fat everything has been declared bad for decades by nutritional scientists, and promoted by doctors, governments and health organisations. Now, that hasn't been over turned recently by scientific progress, has it?
Ah yes read the book, zealots gonna zealot. What peer-reviewed research on overfeeding shows people losing weight? What starvation studies show people gaining weight? Please post them0
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