Since thick is in, should I stay at 145 on my 5'2 frame

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Replies

  • TheVirgoddess
    TheVirgoddess Posts: 4,535 Member
    JoRocka wrote: »
    BFDeal wrote: »
    Have we established a difference between thick, fluffy, curvy, and decided on if using the phrase "cushian for the pushin'" is also acceptable?

    EDIT: Also, what if you're just big boned?

    I would just like to state: Curvy =/= obese. Obese = round, not curvy. Curvy = thin waist and white hips. Think hourglass. That's where curvy came from and that's what it is. Round is not curvy. It is one curve.

    perhaps we should stop with that mentality with those words- and just focus on training? It's funny- when I describe myself- none of those words EVER come up.

    Ever.

    Awesome?
    Fabulous?
    Strong?
    Talented?
    Athletic?
    Skilled and trained?

    sure. But I've never once described myself as curvy- I really wish we could get over that.

    Fantastic post.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    BFDeal wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    BFDeal wrote: »
    Have we established a difference between thick, fluffy, curvy, and decided on if using the phrase "cushian for the pushin'" is also acceptable?

    EDIT: Also, what if you're just big boned?

    I would just like to state: Curvy =/= obese. Obese = round, not curvy. Curvy = thin waist and white hips. Think hourglass. That's where curvy came from and that's what it is. Round is not curvy. It is one curve.

    perhaps we should stop with that mentality with those words- and just focus on training? It's funny- when I describe myself- none of those words EVER come up.

    Ever.

    Awesome?
    Fabulous?
    Strong?
    Talented?
    Athletic?
    Skilled and trained?

    sure. But I've never once described myself as curvy- I really wish we could get over that.

    I guess this raises the question though, what does one describe themselves as if they're not yet those things? (ok, awesome, fabulous, and talented have a gray area) What if I'm not strong yet, or athletic, or skilled and trained? I get the message though but it all seems to come from the same place. That is, putting a positive spin and working with whatever you have at the moment.

    Regardless. I'm sure you can think of something besides "thick", "curvy", etc.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    BFDeal wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    BFDeal wrote: »
    Have we established a difference between thick, fluffy, curvy, and decided on if using the phrase "cushian for the pushin'" is also acceptable?

    EDIT: Also, what if you're just big boned?

    I would just like to state: Curvy =/= obese. Obese = round, not curvy. Curvy = thin waist and white hips. Think hourglass. That's where curvy came from and that's what it is. Round is not curvy. It is one curve.

    perhaps we should stop with that mentality with those words- and just focus on training? It's funny- when I describe myself- none of those words EVER come up.

    Ever.

    Awesome?
    Fabulous?
    Strong?
    Talented?
    Athletic?
    Skilled and trained?

    sure. But I've never once described myself as curvy- I really wish we could get over that.

    I guess this raises the question though, what does one describe themselves as if they're not yet those things? (ok, awesome, fabulous, and talented have a gray area) What if I'm not strong yet, or athletic, or skilled and trained? I get the message though but it all seems to come from the same place. That is, putting a positive spin and working with whatever you have at the moment.

    Just because you aren't me- or I'm not you doesn't mean you don't do other awesome things. And just because you aren't as strong as you could be... doesn't mean you aren't strong. Someone who lifted the bar today- and didn't lift yesterday can own that.

    EVERY positive step you take is something you can own. I did THIS. I can do THIS. I'm AWESOME. whatever that is... but I guess it's moving away from those words and owning things you do- and what you are becoming.

    For every person this will be different- but I'm a big believer in focusing on accomplishments- and rather than something that's completely and utterly subjective. I dunno... hard to explain- hoping I'm making sense. LOL
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    JoRocka wrote: »
    BFDeal wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    BFDeal wrote: »
    Have we established a difference between thick, fluffy, curvy, and decided on if using the phrase "cushian for the pushin'" is also acceptable?

    EDIT: Also, what if you're just big boned?

    I would just like to state: Curvy =/= obese. Obese = round, not curvy. Curvy = thin waist and white hips. Think hourglass. That's where curvy came from and that's what it is. Round is not curvy. It is one curve.

    perhaps we should stop with that mentality with those words- and just focus on training? It's funny- when I describe myself- none of those words EVER come up.

    Ever.

    Awesome?
    Fabulous?
    Strong?
    Talented?
    Athletic?
    Skilled and trained?

    sure. But I've never once described myself as curvy- I really wish we could get over that.

    I guess this raises the question though, what does one describe themselves as if they're not yet those things? (ok, awesome, fabulous, and talented have a gray area) What if I'm not strong yet, or athletic, or skilled and trained? I get the message though but it all seems to come from the same place. That is, putting a positive spin and working with whatever you have at the moment.

    Just because you aren't me- or I'm not you doesn't mean you don't do other awesome things. And just because you aren't as strong as you could be... doesn't mean you aren't strong. Someone who lifted the bar today- and didn't lift yesterday can own that.

    EVERY positive step you take is something you can own. I did THIS. I can do THIS. I'm AWESOME. whatever that is... but I guess it's moving away from those words and owning things you do- and what you are becoming.

    For every person this will be different- but I'm a big believer in focusing on accomplishments- and rather than something that's completely and utterly subjective. I dunno... hard to explain- hoping I'm making sense. LOL

    Sigh...You're so positive. You're start to rub off on me. Slowly, with all your positivity.
  • If you do exercises to tone your glutes you will keep your butt bigger, rounder, perkier. Boobs on the other hand are mostly made of fat and come down to the genetics of where your body throws it. I think you look great in your pics and way too much value is put on women's breasts. But in the end it's all about how you personally feel and your happiness.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
    If you do exercises to tone your glutes you will keep your butt bigger, rounder, perkier. Boobs on the other hand are mostly made of fat and come down to the genetics of where your body throws it. I think you look great in your pics and way too much value is put on women's breasts. But in the end it's all about how you personally feel and your happiness.

    O the contrary, working the pectorals will lift them up a bit and make them perkier.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
    arditarose wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    BFDeal wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    BFDeal wrote: »
    Have we established a difference between thick, fluffy, curvy, and decided on if using the phrase "cushian for the pushin'" is also acceptable?

    EDIT: Also, what if you're just big boned?

    I would just like to state: Curvy =/= obese. Obese = round, not curvy. Curvy = thin waist and white hips. Think hourglass. That's where curvy came from and that's what it is. Round is not curvy. It is one curve.

    perhaps we should stop with that mentality with those words- and just focus on training? It's funny- when I describe myself- none of those words EVER come up.

    Ever.

    Awesome?
    Fabulous?
    Strong?
    Talented?
    Athletic?
    Skilled and trained?

    sure. But I've never once described myself as curvy- I really wish we could get over that.

    I guess this raises the question though, what does one describe themselves as if they're not yet those things? (ok, awesome, fabulous, and talented have a gray area) What if I'm not strong yet, or athletic, or skilled and trained? I get the message though but it all seems to come from the same place. That is, putting a positive spin and working with whatever you have at the moment.

    Just because you aren't me- or I'm not you doesn't mean you don't do other awesome things. And just because you aren't as strong as you could be... doesn't mean you aren't strong. Someone who lifted the bar today- and didn't lift yesterday can own that.

    EVERY positive step you take is something you can own. I did THIS. I can do THIS. I'm AWESOME. whatever that is... but I guess it's moving away from those words and owning things you do- and what you are becoming.

    For every person this will be different- but I'm a big believer in focusing on accomplishments- and rather than something that's completely and utterly subjective. I dunno... hard to explain- hoping I'm making sense. LOL

    Sigh...You're so positive. You're start to rub off on me. Slowly, with all your positivity.

    eCardDarkSideNew.png
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    If you do exercises to tone your glutes you will keep your butt bigger, rounder, perkier. Boobs on the other hand are mostly made of fat and come down to the genetics of where your body throws it. I think you look great in your pics and way too much value is put on women's breasts. But in the end it's all about how you personally feel and your happiness.

    O the contrary, working the pectorals will lift them up a bit and make them perkier.

    a push up bra will get you further with better results. Pec work is going to barely touch it.
    Sigh...You're so positive. You're start to rub off on me. Slowly, with all your positivity.
    which is funny because I'm the "most condescending person on this forum" But I DO believe in owning your accomplishments... and yes- I've been accused of being vain. LMAO.
  • BinaryPulsar
    BinaryPulsar Posts: 8,927 Member
    There may be trends in body type. But, individual people are attracted to what they are attracted to regardless of trends. And we all can mostly just work with what we have.
  • LilLuLu4
    LilLuLu4 Posts: 29 Member
    Though I also don't agree with labeling every overweight person as "thick" (I kinda hate that word), I think we should stop with the "be a 'normal' BMI or you are not healthy" mantra as well. You CAN be healthy when you are in the BMI overweight range. As a matter of fact, research says that being overweight but not obese MAY actually decrease mortality (who knew!). Because of that, the focus has been put on healthier food choices and physical activity rather than "normal" BMI. So who cares if someone else thinks your thickness (*rolls eyes*) is still "overfat"? As long as you are are healthy and not putting yourself into that at-risk category (obese) or working to get out of it, focus more on performance and self-confidence. Do you feel comfortable walking that flight of stairs? Can you carry all the groceries in one trip (I try EVERY time! LOL!)? Are you happy with the way you look?
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member

    LilLuLu4 wrote: »
    Though I also don't agree with labeling every overweight person as "thick" (I kinda hate that word), I think we should stop with the "be a 'normal' BMI or you are not healthy" mantra as well. You CAN be healthy when you are in the BMI overweight range. As a matter of fact, research says that being overweight but not obese MAY actually decrease mortality (who knew!). Because of that, the focus has been put on healthier food choices and physical activity rather than "normal" BMI. So who cares if someone else thinks your thickness (*rolls eyes*) is still "overfat"? As long as you are are healthy and not putting yourself into that at-risk category (obese) or working to get out of it, focus more on performance and self-confidence. Do you feel comfortable walking that flight of stairs? Can you carry all the groceries in one trip (I try EVERY time! LOL!)? Are you happy with the way you look?

    Yep, I mean if you're at 24.9 BMI and go up to 25 do you suddenly and magically become unhealthy? I believe it depends on several variables, waist size being one of them.
  • KathleenCora
    KathleenCora Posts: 160 Member
    I honestly don't get why keeping boobs and butt are prioritized over being healthy. If a man doesn't appreciate you for the qualities that you have, then what the hell are you doing??? It's my body....i have to be comfortable, I have to love myself. I hate to say I don't care what my husband likes but honestly I don't care. If he loves me then he will love me regardless how big my a** or boobs are. Just like how I love and appreciate him regardless how big his tummy or d*** is or how big his beard is. I am attracted to more than the physical. I had a breast reduction probably 11 years ago I went from a EEE to a B .... Then I gained 60lbs and my boobs grew too.... Now they are back to being c's and they are not perky and I have scars not pretty in a normal sense..... But hey my back doesn't hurt do that makes me happy and that alone makes my husband happy for me. So, be happy and confident in yourself and your accomplishments and that should speak volumes over what trends are popular.
  • CrabNebula
    CrabNebula Posts: 1,119 Member
    I describe myself as curvy because I am. I used to be the shape of a refrigerator box. That wasn't so hot.
  • angellll12
    angellll12 Posts: 296 Member

    Yeah being more curvy is considered to be sexy now a days, omg... How dare they. Guess what, not everyone cares to be ripped. I believe in getting cardio everyday to get your heart going but that's it. Not everyone has time to hop on the bike with their chicken legs. Why is being afraid to lose something on your body that you love so mind blowing? If I were obese I'd surely be worried about my health. Some of you health nuts are freaks and need to simmer down.
    Camo_xxx wrote: »
    Thick is in ?

    Are you really willing to let a social fad dictate your health prospects ?
    Are you using thick is in as an excuse to not do the work to get to a healthy Body Fat % ?
    if you feel decent while carrying a high body fat % doesn't it stand to reason you would feel better at a lower Body fat % ?

    Being "scared" to lose your butt and boobs ? really ? That is a silly rationalization. If you are going to use fear as a reason for something Be afraid of the long term health consequences of being overweigh. Your life may very well depend on it.

  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    angellll12 wrote: »
    Yeah being more curvy is considered to be sexy now a days, omg... How dare they. Guess what, not everyone cares to be ripped. I believe in getting cardio everyday to get your heart going but that's it. Not everyone has time to hop on the bike with their chicken legs. Why is being afraid to lose something on your body that you love so mind blowing? If I were obese I'd surely be worried about my health. Some of you health nuts are freaks and need to simmer down.

    more people are expressing concern over the fact you seem to be driven by a social implication.

    If you love your a@@ then you love it and you don't need our justification for it. Mine's only gotten better- even as I've lost weight.

    Do what you think is best for you- and what you like- not because something is "in"

    also- LOL at getting ripped- you do realize that takes practically years of hard work right?
  • angellll12
    angellll12 Posts: 296 Member
    LilLuLu4 wrote: »
    Though I also don't agree with labeling every overweight person as "thick" (I kinda hate that word), I think we should stop with the "be a 'normal' BMI or you are not healthy" mantra as well. You CAN be healthy when you are in the BMI overweight range. As a matter of fact, research says that being overweight but not obese MAY actually decrease mortality (who knew!). Because of that, the focus has been put on healthier food choices and physical activity rather than "normal" BMI. So who cares if someone else thinks your thickness (*rolls eyes*) is still "overfat"? As long as you are are healthy and not putting yourself into that at-risk category (obese) or working to get out of it, focus more on performance and self-confidence. Do you feel comfortable walking that flight of stairs? Can you carry all the groceries in one trip (I try EVERY time! LOL!)? Are you happy with the way you look?

    Exactly
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
    angellll12 wrote: »
    Yeah being more curvy is considered to be sexy now a days, omg... How dare they. Guess what, not everyone cares to be ripped. I believe in getting cardio everyday to get your heart going but that's it. Not everyone has time to hop on the bike with their chicken legs. Why is being afraid to lose something on your body that you love so mind blowing? If I were obese I'd surely be worried about my health. Some of you health nuts are freaks and need to simmer down.
    Camo_xxx wrote: »
    Thick is in ?

    Are you really willing to let a social fad dictate your health prospects ?
    Are you using thick is in as an excuse to not do the work to get to a healthy Body Fat % ?
    if you feel decent while carrying a high body fat % doesn't it stand to reason you would feel better at a lower Body fat % ?

    Being "scared" to lose your butt and boobs ? really ? That is a silly rationalization. If you are going to use fear as a reason for something Be afraid of the long term health consequences of being overweigh. Your life may very well depend on it.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    However, an apple is generally not a flattering shape.
  • vmlabute
    vmlabute Posts: 311 Member
    5'2" and 130lbs. Even at this weight I look "thin thin" but I can lift hella heavy. I really think it all depends on body composition and where your body distributes the weight
  • angellll12
    angellll12 Posts: 296 Member
    JoRocka wrote: »
    angellll12 wrote: »
    Yeah being more curvy is considered to be sexy now a days, omg... How dare they. Guess what, not everyone cares to be ripped. I believe in getting cardio everyday to get your heart going but that's it. Not everyone has time to hop on the bike with their chicken legs. Why is being afraid to lose something on your body that you love so mind blowing? If I were obese I'd surely be worried about my health. Some of you health nuts are freaks and need to simmer down.

    more people are expressing concern over the fact you seem to be driven by a social implication.

    If you love your a@@ then you love it and you don't need our justification for it. Mine's only gotten better- even as I've lost weight.

    Do what you think is best for you- and what you like- not because something is "in"

    also- LOL at getting ripped- you do realize that takes practically years of hard work right?

    What's in is what I always liked. That's my vision of sexy, I used to think you always had to be super skinny to be hot- even though I never found that attractive. I tried to be that, worked out did what I had to do to lose weight but now that I'm 143 I think I look hot, even hotter if I go down to 130- and some of you health craze will still think that's unhealthy. Understand something, you don't have to be a gym rat to be healthy.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    angellll12 wrote: »
    and some of you health craze will still think that's unhealthy. Understand something, you don't have to be a gym rat to be healthy.
    can you please point out a single person who has said you have to be a "gym rat" to be healthy?
  • angellll12
    angellll12 Posts: 296 Member
    edited April 2015

    vmlabute wrote: »
    5'2" and 130lbs. Even at this weight I look "thin thin" but I can lift hella heavy. I really think it all depends on body composition and where your body distributes the weight

    I'd love to see what that looks like on you!
  • leggup
    leggup Posts: 2,942 Member
    angellll12 wrote: »
    Since I've lost weight, I also lost weight in my boobs I went from a C cup to a B cup, a big B cup though. I still want curves, and an *kitten*. i feel like if I lose anymore weight I lose my boobs, I'm not into that skinny skinny look. What do you think about 145 pounds on a 5'2 frame? Maybe ten more pounds? I'm scared to lose my butt and boobs.

    Plus I'm having a hard time losing anymore weight

    I have found that the more weight I lose, the more curvy I look because the smaller my waist gets. You're 9 lbs away from being in the "Normal" weight range, which, statistically speaking, reduces overall mortality in applicable groups of people (excluding muscle-mass outliers).

    It sounds like it's gotten hard and so you're making some excuses. Trust me, you won't get that "skinny skinny" look at BMI 24.9. Bras can create boobs and squats can create butts.
  • angellll12
    angellll12 Posts: 296 Member
    JoRocka wrote: »
    angellll12 wrote: »
    and some of you health craze will still think that's unhealthy. Understand something, you don't have to be a gym rat to be healthy.
    can you please point out a single person who has said you have to be a "gym rat" to be healthy?

    Those words weren't used exactly but they were implied- that's what they make it seem anyway.
  • angellll12
    angellll12 Posts: 296 Member
    Have you seen the pictures I've posted?
    Do those girls look like apples?


    angellll12 wrote: »
    Yeah being more curvy is considered to be sexy now a days, omg... How dare they. Guess what, not everyone cares to be ripped. I believe in getting cardio everyday to get your heart going but that's it. Not everyone has time to hop on the bike with their chicken legs. Why is being afraid to lose something on your body that you love so mind blowing? If I were obese I'd surely be worried about my health. Some of you health nuts are freaks and need to simmer down.
    Camo_xxx wrote: »
    Thick is in ?

    Are you really willing to let a social fad dictate your health prospects ?
    Are you using thick is in as an excuse to not do the work to get to a healthy Body Fat % ?
    if you feel decent while carrying a high body fat % doesn't it stand to reason you would feel better at a lower Body fat % ?

    Being "scared" to lose your butt and boobs ? really ? That is a silly rationalization. If you are going to use fear as a reason for something Be afraid of the long term health consequences of being overweigh. Your life may very well depend on it.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    However, an apple is generally not a flattering shape.

  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    angellll12 wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    angellll12 wrote: »
    and some of you health craze will still think that's unhealthy. Understand something, you don't have to be a gym rat to be healthy.
    can you please point out a single person who has said you have to be a "gym rat" to be healthy?

    Those words weren't used exactly but they were implied- that's what they make it seem anyway.

    nobody has said or implied that.

    But we have said- you should have some sort of fitness program- and any general well rounded fitness program will include a resistance/strength training component and a cardiovascular component. I think you'll be hard pressed to find any doctor or medical professional who will sign off and say - yeah completely healthy- and you do ZERO physical activity.

    We have also said if you want to build a better butt- you'll need to be building muscle- which means squatting- dead lifting- bridge lifts/hip thrusters- with weight.

    But sure- you can be "a shape" and be moderate 'healthy'- without working out.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    edited April 2015
    angellll12 wrote: »
    vmlabute wrote: »
    5'2" and 130lbs. Even at this weight I look "thin thin" but I can lift hella heavy. I really think it all depends on body composition and where your body distributes the weight

    I'd love to see what that looks like on you!

    Anyone else thing OP is a 60 year old man?! :laugh:
  • angellll12
    angellll12 Posts: 296 Member
    angellll12 wrote: »
    Since I've lost weight, I also lost weight in my boobs I went from a C cup to a B cup, a big B cup though. I still want curves, and an *kitten*. i feel like if I lose anymore weight I lose my boobs, I'm not into that skinny skinny look. What do you think about 145 pounds on a 5'2 frame? Maybe ten more pounds? I'm scared to lose my butt and boobs.

    Plus I'm having a hard time losing anymore weight

    I have found that the more weight I lose, the more curvy I look because the smaller my waist gets. You're 9 lbs away from being in the "Normal" weight range, which, statistically speaking, reduces overall mortality in applicable groups of people (excluding muscle-mass outliers).

    It sounds like it's gotten hard and so you're making some excuses. Trust me, you won't get that "skinny skinny" look at BMI 24.9. Bras can create boobs and squats can create butts.

    I noticed that as well as I lost weight. As I lost my weight around my hips I notice my bum and the way it curves out of my back ( know what I mean?) my *kitten* is more shapely. I do want to go down to 130.
  • urloved33
    urloved33 Posts: 3,323 Member
    MissKriss3 wrote: »
    v44996h1coev.jpg
    e4baj2udqbyq.jpg
    p5nz7x4vc6w9.jpg
    angellll12 wrote: »
    MissKriss3 wrote: »
    I'm extremely confident weighing 174# at 5'1". Thanks to strength training. #thickchick

    Do you have pictures? I'd like to see how that looks .

    I still think you look overweight, too much body fat.

    Wow could you be any more rude?


    I know huh tumblr_m45buqHaZR1qjbyl8o1_5001.gif

    The real thing you should check is all your numbers. heart rates. cholesteral, tris, blood pressure. those are the numbers that will tell you if where you are is healthy for you. check w your doctor.


  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    I can't see most of the pics, so this comment is based on my experience and physique only.

    I'm 5'3". 142 lbs is when I became uncomfortable enough to decide enough was enough and to lose weight. No way would 140+ lbs be satisfactory for me at 5' 2" unless I were a bodybuilder and I had 25% BF or lower.

    OP, from my experience, most women lose fat from the low ribcage to mid thigh last. So, if you stop now, you've lost all that fat from the areas you didn't necessarily want to lose from, but haven't yet realized the benefits of losing the fat you really wanted to get rid of. Slimming your midsection is what will help make whatever curves you have, pop.

    Plus, midsection fat is the fat that has the strongest correlation with negative health outcomes. In my opinion, stopping now would be the wrong move.

    Keep in mind, that while you can't build up your breasts, you can certainly build your butt because it is muscle. So, don't worry about losing fat from there.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
    angellll12 wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    angellll12 wrote: »
    Yeah being more curvy is considered to be sexy now a days, omg... How dare they. Guess what, not everyone cares to be ripped. I believe in getting cardio everyday to get your heart going but that's it. Not everyone has time to hop on the bike with their chicken legs. Why is being afraid to lose something on your body that you love so mind blowing? If I were obese I'd surely be worried about my health. Some of you health nuts are freaks and need to simmer down.

    more people are expressing concern over the fact you seem to be driven by a social implication.

    If you love your a@@ then you love it and you don't need our justification for it. Mine's only gotten better- even as I've lost weight.

    Do what you think is best for you- and what you like- not because something is "in"

    also- LOL at getting ripped- you do realize that takes practically years of hard work right?

    What's in is what I always liked. That's my vision of sexy, I used to think you always had to be super skinny to be hot- even though I never found that attractive. I tried to be that, worked out did what I had to do to lose weight but now that I'm 143 I think I look hot, even hotter if I go down to 130- and some of you health craze will still think that's unhealthy. Understand something, you don't have to be a gym rat to be healthy.

    So you have no ability of forming your own opinion and can only do what mainstream society tells you what to like and do.

    That is the single most pathetic thing I have ever read or heard in the past 5 years of my life. It must be so incredibly sad to be someone who HAS to be exactly what the trend is.

    If it became a trend to start cutting your wrists then I guess we wouldn't have to put up with threads like this.
This discussion has been closed.