OHP in squat rack?
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I once saw an OAP in the squat rack. I doffed my cap and bid him good day. You have to show respect kids.0
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If he don't know how to use his words he can just wait till I finish my curls.I see more people using them for other exercises at my gym than I see them being used for squats (so disappointing). I say if no one is waiting for the rack then use it, if it's busy and people are waiting then do any exercise that doesn't require the rack elsewhere.
But you don't necessarily know who's waiting for the squat rack because they are probably off doing something else while waiting. You might think that guy doing lunges on the other end of the weight room just wanted to do some lunges but actually he's just keeping himself busy while you are improperly using the equipment he needs.
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herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
so increased strength is the only goal????????0 -
you could always do a front squat to OHP in one motion. You may need to lessen your normal front squat weight, but you get an excellent workout without all the stink eye from the haters.0
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herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
so increased strength is the only goal????????
But only when applicable to real life situations. Who needs OHP PRs at the gym when there are heavy boxes to clean and press?
Just not in the squat rack.
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bennett180790 wrote: »the squat rack is for squats hence the name ... dont be that person who does arm curls and shoulder work out's in the squat rack. especially if there is only one ! use the smith for shoulders that is fine but leave the squat rack for squatters
lol who flagged this?!?!?!
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JenAndSome wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
so increased strength is the only goal????????
But only when applicable to real life situations. Who needs OHP PRs at the gym when there are heavy boxes to clean and press?
Just not in the squat rack.
I guess I have been doing it wrong..
my job does not involve lifting boxes, should I stop OHP'ing????????0 -
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, based on that logic, you should do a Bear Complex before each set of OHP? Sorry, but specificity of the lift, conservation of energy, and injury prevention are all factors over adaptation of “functional lifts."
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If he don't know how to use his words he can just wait till I finish my curls.I see more people using them for other exercises at my gym than I see them being used for squats (so disappointing). I say if no one is waiting for the rack then use it, if it's busy and people are waiting then do any exercise that doesn't require the rack elsewhere.
But you don't necessarily know who's waiting for the squat rack because they are probably off doing something else while waiting. You might think that guy doing lunges on the other end of the weight room just wanted to do some lunges but actually he's just keeping himself busy while you are improperly using the equipment he needs.
I found this incredibly hilarious. But it's totally true.
If I go to the gym and the rack is occupied, I ask if they just started/is a line. Then I how what I can go about doing in the meantime.0 -
JenAndSome wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
so increased strength is the only goal????????
But only when applicable to real life situations. Who needs OHP PRs at the gym when there are heavy boxes to clean and press?
Just not in the squat rack.
Why the hell would I need to lift anything heavy outside of the gym? Don't we pay people to do that for us?0 -
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »My gym only has 1 squat rack. There isn't a power rack, there's a smith machine but I haven't heard good things about them.
Is it considered bad gym etiquette to do OHP in the squat rack? Cleaning the bar is getting quite tiresome and I'm just dreading the day something goes wrong when I can't get a rep out or something.
Go for it man.
If someone gives you static, then deal with it as it happens.
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AllanMisner wrote: »
Why would my family member be under the car? Don't we pay people to get under the car for us?0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »
Wait, people are cleaning and pressing cars now? That's something I got to see....0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
Bodybuilding.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »
Why would my family member be under the car? Don't we pay people to get under the car for us?
If you pay someone to be under the car, I assume you’re going to pay someone to lift the car off them. You must be making bank to have people like this. I have to get under and lift my own damn car.
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AllanMisner wrote: »
Why would my family member be under the car? Don't we pay people to get under the car for us?
My cousin gets under a car he gets what's coming to him0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »
Why would my family member be under the car? Don't we pay people to get under the car for us?
If you pay someone to be under the car, I assume you’re going to pay someone to lift the car off them. You must be making bank to have people like this. I have to get under and lift my own damn car.
People that get under my car are paid by me to do so. I'm not even there when they're under it. If it falls on them one of their coworkers surely will be there to lift the car off of them.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
Bodybuilding.
Strength and muscle cross sectional area are directly correlated. Because of this, bodybuilders must become stronger if they intend to continue building muscle mass. They do not have to specialize in strength; however, you cannot build muscle without building strength. Science and stuff.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
Bodybuilding.
Strength and muscle cross sectional area are directly correlated. Because of this, bodybuilders must become stronger if they intend to continue building muscle mass. They do not have to specialize in strength; however, you cannot build muscle without building strength. Science and stuff.
Yes but someone in meet prep can most certainly benefit from OHP from a rack as it'd more directly contribute to the musculature they're trying to boost. Targetted work does have a place.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
I don't insist that at all. You just put those words in my mouth.
I do; however, logically conclude that a person who is lifting weights would like to cause some form of physical benefit from doing so.0 -
-
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist in every one of these threads that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
FTFY0 -
I press in the squat rack. I have no other way of doing it. I can't clean because my wrists can't handle that quick range of motion with weight since I have a cyst on one and another that tends to hyperextend. The hyperextending one gets screwed up from Dumbbells if I'm not very slow and extra careful. It's a very minor pain but if I can avoid it, I do.
But I doubt anyone cries over me. There are worse offenses that an OHP in a rack. I'm pretty sure they just hate the people that believe a squat rack is for hanging their towels.......yeah...not even joking.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist in every one of these threads that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
FTFY
Again, just putting words in my mouth because you don't have a valid retort to what I ACTUALLY said.
You don't see me giving advice in the distance running threads because that is not what I do. I do; however, know a lot about lifting and gaining strength so that's the area in which I offer my advice. If you don't like that advice you don't have to listen to it because I wasn't talking to you in the first place.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist in every one of these threads that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
FTFY
Again, just putting words in my mouth because you don't have a valid retort to what I ACTUALLY said.
You don't see me giving advice in the distance running threads because that is not what I do. I do; however, know a lot about lifting and gaining strength so that's the area in which I offer my advice. If you don't like that advice you don't have to listen to it because I wasn't talking to you in the first place.
Didn't you go into a distance running thread a while back and tell someone the way to improve their running was to carry heavy rocks?0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
I don't insist that at all. You just put those words in my mouth.
I do; however, logically conclude that a person who is lifting weights would like to cause some form of physical benefit from doing so.
Bodybuilding
Modelling
Fat loss
Trying to stay under the old school military Neck circumference:waist ratio rules
0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist in every one of these threads that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
FTFY
Again, just putting words in my mouth because you don't have a valid retort to what I ACTUALLY said.
You don't see me giving advice in the distance running threads because that is not what I do. I do; however, know a lot about lifting and gaining strength so that's the area in which I offer my advice. If you don't like that advice you don't have to listen to it because I wasn't talking to you in the first place.
Didn't you go into a distance running thread a while back and tell someone the way to improve their running was to carry heavy rocks?
I take it you haven't heard of the Flintstone method, then?0
http://youtu.be/VCxBg8ywQgQ
This discussion has been closed.
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