Tipping
TheRoadDog
Posts: 11,788 Member
There have been other posts about tipping, but right now, in Oregon, they are pushing for a $15 an hour minimum wage. I suspect it will happen and I would guess that most States will face the same debates, protests and eventually it will pass in other states as well.
I've decided that I am all for it. But, when it happens, I will cease to tip. The argument has always been that our servers rely on our tips to survive. $15 an hour will certainly nullify that argument. I'm, frankly, tired of seeing a Tip Jar on every counter from Starbucks to the local Tanning Salon. I don't have a Tip Jar on my desk. Many people rely on my performance.
Most of the rest of the world does not tip. Good service should be a job requirement. Not a grounds for a gratuity.
I've decided that I am all for it. But, when it happens, I will cease to tip. The argument has always been that our servers rely on our tips to survive. $15 an hour will certainly nullify that argument. I'm, frankly, tired of seeing a Tip Jar on every counter from Starbucks to the local Tanning Salon. I don't have a Tip Jar on my desk. Many people rely on my performance.
Most of the rest of the world does not tip. Good service should be a job requirement. Not a grounds for a gratuity.
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In restaurants in Italy the tip is already included in the bill.
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snowflake954 wrote: »In restaurants in Italy the tip is already included in the bill.
Which is even worse. It means the server has no initiative to go the extra mile for his/her customer. They get their gratuity either way.
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Do waiter, waitresses and bartenders get paid minimum wage? Here, in Ontario, their minimum wage is lower than the standard minimum wage because they are supposed to calculate their tips as income come tax time.
IMO, if I'm at a counter, making my order, and I receive my order at the same counter, I'm not going to tip. You tip someone for service (and you should tip well, unless the service was crap). It's their job to make you feel good about spending time at the establishment you are visiting. If they did that, they deserve a tip.
You don't tip someone for rudely asking for your order, then throwing your food at you while you stand and wait.0 -
If the servers get $15 an hour as well, that's GREAT! As it is now, most restaurants can get away with paying servers less than minimum wage. We're talking around $3 an hour, in some places less. Raising the minimum wage doesn't necessarily mean these people will see any more money.0
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TheRoadDog wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »In restaurants in Italy the tip is already included in the bill.
Which is even worse. It means the server has no initiative to go the extra mile for his/her customer. They get their gratuity either way.
Not the case in Europe, we have an other mentalilty.0 -
$15/hr you will probably force base prices come up to compensate, so some of this will directly be passed on to the consumers, although some businesses will try to do more with fewer people and/or cutting hours. Those that are already operating on a tight margin will close. Lots of side effects, and not all of them are good?
As for tipping, I didn't think minimum wage applied to positions like serving tables. So tipping in that case is still appropriate, if that doesn't change.0 -
I personally don't get this whole "increase the minimum wage to $XXX/hour" deal. The people who are getting paid minimum wage are at the bottom of the barrel, yes, but they are the driving force for inflation. If their wages go up, it will drive prices up everywhere, which will make their dollars worth less, which puts them back at square one.
Not to mention, if you are very smart with your money, you could easily live off of $10k/year anywhere in the USA. I know of people who live in a nice part of San Francisco who live off of $7k/year, and they are renting!
Heck, I'm actually a little offended that these people are now going to get paid $15/hour for flipping burgers. I only make a bit more than that and I'm working a job that requires a college education (though I did just start out and my income is increasing every year).0 -
If the servers get $15 an hour as well, that's GREAT! As it is now, most restaurants can get away with paying servers less than minimum wage. We're talking around $3 an hour, in some places less. Raising the minimum wage doesn't necessarily mean these people will see any more money.
Supposed to be an across the board increase. The aim is to bring those jobs on line. $15 and hour regardless of job. Waitress, Crop picker, Retail worker. No difference.
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If Servers are included in the $15/hr minimum wage, then I will cease to tip them. I will continue to tip my bartender, though - regardless of what he gets paid. That tip is really for me, not him.0
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TheRoadDog wrote: »If the servers get $15 an hour as well, that's GREAT! As it is now, most restaurants can get away with paying servers less than minimum wage. We're talking around $3 an hour, in some places less. Raising the minimum wage doesn't necessarily mean these people will see any more money.
Supposed to be an across the board increase. The aim is to bring those jobs on line. $15 and hour regardless of job. Waitress, Crop picker, Retail worker. No difference.
You will never get a full meal at a full-serve restaurant for $20 again. $50 will become the minimum. Also, McDonald's will now charge $5 for a Big Mac. $20 for a combo.0 -
"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.0
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I do think $15 is a bit high. $9 is more reasonable imho.
I think the OP is talking about non-waitress/waiter type situations like at Dunkin or Starbucks on the ice cream stand where there are tip jars.0 -
I do think $15 is a bit high. $9 is more reasonable imho.
I think the OP is talking about non-waitress/waiter type situations like at Dunkin or Starbucks on the ice cream stand where there are tip jars.
Those kind of tip jars get the coins from my change. Not because I'm a great guy who cares about the financial situation of a dunkin's cashier, but because I cant stand having coins in my pocket, and the tip jar seems like a better option than throwing it away.0 -
If Servers are included in the $15/hr minimum wage, then I will cease to tip them. I will continue to tip my bartender, though - regardless of what he gets paid. That tip is really for me, not him.
Ahh someone who knows the bar scene. Yeah if servers get paid $15 an hour I'm not tipping them anymore either.
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"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.0 -
When I started working Minimum wage was about $1.35 an hour. Busboy. Worked harder than the waitresses, but was not deemed tipworthy. Yet I was the one scrambling to get your water, keep your coffee and drinks refilled. Clean up your mess. Occasionally, a waitress might pass along a tip, but it was rare.
Yet, I did not expect to be paid the same wage as a person with a Trade or a Degree. It just motivated me to improve my job and my life. People think they are entitled now.
Entry level positions are meant to give a person experience and help guide them to a better lot in life. The person getting my coffee at Starbucks doesn't work as hard as the person putting the roof on my house. Why are they entitled to a gratuity?0 -
chivalryder wrote: »"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.
Please break that down for me. Break down rent, food, any medical bills, car insurance, phone bills (even just a land line if we're believing poor people don't deserve cell phones, clothes, and any costs relating to children if they have any.
And I don't care if they dropped out or not. I really don't. If I'm gonna eat at mcdonalds, I really don't mind paying less than a dollar extra if it means that some person gets to feed their kids, or pay their bills, or whatever. Dropping out of school doesn't mean their less worthy of a living wage. Sorry.0 -
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Tipping isn't expected in Australia, although if we dine out and receive excellent service we do add a tip.
We holidayed in the US over Christmas and must admit that the service we received was by far superior than the service we receive at home - the waitstaff really went above and beyond to provide good service whereas at home it's hit and miss (more miss...). I don't believe that people should have to rely on tips, but I could only imagine that service would drop slightly if the need for tips was taken away.0 -
It'd be great if that were still actually true. Entry level positions are meant to act as the next best thing to slave labor (which in our society would be interns).TheRoadDog wrote: »Entry level positions are meant to give a person experience and help guide them to a better lot in life.
I have 2 interns. I pay them $15/hr.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.
Please break that down for me. Break down rent, food, any medical bills, car insurance, phone bills (even just a land line if we're believing poor people don't deserve cell phones, clothes, and any costs relating to children if they have any.
And I don't care if they dropped out or not. I really don't. If I'm gonna eat at mcdonalds, I really don't mind paying less than a dollar extra if it means that some person gets to feed their kids, or pay their bills, or whatever. Dropping out of school doesn't mean their less worthy of a living wage. Sorry.
This is the monthly expenses for one person in a relationship. Some of the expenses are split, others are not. However, the budget is about the same if the person were single because some expenses would go up, but other expenses would go down because you can be more rigid with your spending when single.
Rent + Utilities: $270
Health Insurance: $95
Food: $70-100
Entertainment/Health Club: $50
Car: $50
Internet: $20
Various other expenses: Not much.
Total: $585/month
$7020/year
Obviously, if you were single, you could ditch the car, but rent would be more. You can spend less on entertainment or not bother with a health club. Internet is also optional, but kind of important in this day and age.
It's perfectly do-able. I live in a very expensive part of Canada, where everything is also more expensive than most parts of the USA, and I'm living off of $10k/year.
ETA: Source of budget: http://www.earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions0 -
chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.
Please break that down for me. Break down rent, food, any medical bills, car insurance, phone bills (even just a land line if we're believing poor people don't deserve cell phones, clothes, and any costs relating to children if they have any.
And I don't care if they dropped out or not. I really don't. If I'm gonna eat at mcdonalds, I really don't mind paying less than a dollar extra if it means that some person gets to feed their kids, or pay their bills, or whatever. Dropping out of school doesn't mean their less worthy of a living wage. Sorry.
This is the monthly expenses for one person in a relationship. Some of the expenses are split, others are not. However, the budget is about the same if the person were single because some expenses would go up, but other expenses would go down because you can be more rigid with your spending when single.
Rent + Utilities: $270
Health Insurance: $95
Food: $70-100
Entertainment/Health Club: $50
Car: $50
Internet: $20
Various other expenses: Not much.
Total: $585/month
$7020/year
Obviously, if you were single, you could ditch the car, but rent would be more. You can spend less on entertainment or not bother with a health club. Internet is also optional, but kind of important in this day and age.
It's perfectly do-able. I live in a very expensive part of Canada, where everything is also more expensive than most parts of the USA, and I'm living off of 10k/year.
ETA: Source of budget: http://www.earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions
More expense than what place is cheap the midwest? No one on the east coast could live off 10K a year unless you want to live in the bad neighbors where you can't walk outside without protection.
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yopeeps025 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.
Please break that down for me. Break down rent, food, any medical bills, car insurance, phone bills (even just a land line if we're believing poor people don't deserve cell phones, clothes, and any costs relating to children if they have any.
And I don't care if they dropped out or not. I really don't. If I'm gonna eat at mcdonalds, I really don't mind paying less than a dollar extra if it means that some person gets to feed their kids, or pay their bills, or whatever. Dropping out of school doesn't mean their less worthy of a living wage. Sorry.
This is the monthly expenses for one person in a relationship. Some of the expenses are split, others are not. However, the budget is about the same if the person were single because some expenses would go up, but other expenses would go down because you can be more rigid with your spending when single.
Rent + Utilities: $270
Health Insurance: $95
Food: $70-100
Entertainment/Health Club: $50
Car: $50
Internet: $20
Various other expenses: Not much.
Total: $585/month
$7020/year
Obviously, if you were single, you could ditch the car, but rent would be more. You can spend less on entertainment or not bother with a health club. Internet is also optional, but kind of important in this day and age.
It's perfectly do-able. I live in a very expensive part of Canada, where everything is also more expensive than most parts of the USA, and I'm living off of 10k/year.
ETA: Source of budget: http://www.earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions
More expense than what place is cheap the midwest? No one on the east coast could live off 10K a year unless you want to live in the bad neighbors where you can't walk outside without protection.
yeah, I live in the midwest and rent for me for a one bedroom apartment with utilities included was $600 a month. And we're talking about a single person here, not a duel income. Where do you get internet for $20 a month? Health insurance may be 95, but that doesn't include copays, cost of medications, and such. $100 a month for food, fine, okay, but good luck eating healthy/well on only $100 a month. And unless you live downtown, you need a car. (and if you live downtown you're gonna pay WAY more for an apartment) In places like where I live, everything is spread far enough apart where you have to drive to it. So, okay, you have a car payment (unless you're car is somehow paid for already), you have car insurance, and you have gas. That all goes way over $50 a month.
ETA: That entire thing you quoted was someone paying for HALF of everything. Not all of it. So what's a single person to do? what's a single mother with a kid to do? If you're including another working adult, you're including their income as well. So you have $20k a year instead of $10k for a single family.
This person also has zero student loans because they got free education.
Also, they live in an RV, not an apartment.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.
Please break that down for me. Break down rent, food, any medical bills, car insurance, phone bills (even just a land line if we're believing poor people don't deserve cell phones, clothes, and any costs relating to children if they have any.
And I don't care if they dropped out or not. I really don't. If I'm gonna eat at mcdonalds, I really don't mind paying less than a dollar extra if it means that some person gets to feed their kids, or pay their bills, or whatever. Dropping out of school doesn't mean their less worthy of a living wage. Sorry.
This is the monthly expenses for one person in a relationship. Some of the expenses are split, others are not. However, the budget is about the same if the person were single because some expenses would go up, but other expenses would go down because you can be more rigid with your spending when single.
Rent + Utilities: $270
Health Insurance: $95
Food: $70-100
Entertainment/Health Club: $50
Car: $50
Internet: $20
Various other expenses: Not much.
Total: $585/month
$7020/year
Obviously, if you were single, you could ditch the car, but rent would be more. You can spend less on entertainment or not bother with a health club. Internet is also optional, but kind of important in this day and age.
It's perfectly do-able. I live in a very expensive part of Canada, where everything is also more expensive than most parts of the USA, and I'm living off of 10k/year.
ETA: Source of budget: http://www.earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions
More expense than what place is cheap the midwest? No one on the east coast could live off 10K a year unless you want to live in the bad neighbors where you can't walk outside without protection.
Agreed. I don't know of too many places where half of rent and utilities would be under $1000/month0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.
Please break that down for me. Break down rent, food, any medical bills, car insurance, phone bills (even just a land line if we're believing poor people don't deserve cell phones, clothes, and any costs relating to children if they have any.
And I don't care if they dropped out or not. I really don't. If I'm gonna eat at mcdonalds, I really don't mind paying less than a dollar extra if it means that some person gets to feed their kids, or pay their bills, or whatever. Dropping out of school doesn't mean their less worthy of a living wage. Sorry.
This is the monthly expenses for one person in a relationship. Some of the expenses are split, others are not. However, the budget is about the same if the person were single because some expenses would go up, but other expenses would go down because you can be more rigid with your spending when single.
Rent + Utilities: $270
Health Insurance: $95
Food: $70-100
Entertainment/Health Club: $50
Car: $50
Internet: $20
Various other expenses: Not much.
Total: $585/month
$7020/year
Obviously, if you were single, you could ditch the car, but rent would be more. You can spend less on entertainment or not bother with a health club. Internet is also optional, but kind of important in this day and age.
It's perfectly do-able. I live in a very expensive part of Canada, where everything is also more expensive than most parts of the USA, and I'm living off of 10k/year.
ETA: Source of budget: http://www.earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions
More expense than what place is cheap the midwest? No one on the east coast could live off 10K a year unless you want to live in the bad neighbors where you can't walk outside without protection.
Agreed. I don't know of too many places where half of rent and utilities would be under $1000/month
Poster lives in Canada and talks about the US like he knows. You don't.
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yopeeps025 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.
Please break that down for me. Break down rent, food, any medical bills, car insurance, phone bills (even just a land line if we're believing poor people don't deserve cell phones, clothes, and any costs relating to children if they have any.
And I don't care if they dropped out or not. I really don't. If I'm gonna eat at mcdonalds, I really don't mind paying less than a dollar extra if it means that some person gets to feed their kids, or pay their bills, or whatever. Dropping out of school doesn't mean their less worthy of a living wage. Sorry.
This is the monthly expenses for one person in a relationship. Some of the expenses are split, others are not. However, the budget is about the same if the person were single because some expenses would go up, but other expenses would go down because you can be more rigid with your spending when single.
Rent + Utilities: $270
Health Insurance: $95
Food: $70-100
Entertainment/Health Club: $50
Car: $50
Internet: $20
Various other expenses: Not much.
Total: $585/month
$7020/year
Obviously, if you were single, you could ditch the car, but rent would be more. You can spend less on entertainment or not bother with a health club. Internet is also optional, but kind of important in this day and age.
It's perfectly do-able. I live in a very expensive part of Canada, where everything is also more expensive than most parts of the USA, and I'm living off of 10k/year.
ETA: Source of budget: http://www.earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions
More expense than what place is cheap the midwest? No one on the east coast could live off 10K a year unless you want to live in the bad neighbors where you can't walk outside without protection.
yeah, I live in the midwest and rent for me for a one bedroom apartment with utilities included was $600 a month. And we're talking about a single person here, not a duel income. Where do you get internet for $20 a month? Health insurance may be 95, but that doesn't include copays, cost of medications, and such. $100 a month for food, fine, okay, but good luck eating healthy/well on only $100 a month. And unless you live downtown, you need a car. (and if you live downtown you're gonna pay WAY more for an apartment) In places like where I live, everything is spread far enough apart where you have to drive to it. So, okay, you have a car payment (unless you're car is somehow paid for already), you have car insurance, and you have gas. That all goes way over $50 a month.
This list is no where near comprehensive either. Along with forgetting you need to put gas in your car it seems to assume that you never need new clothing or shoes or light bulbs etc. It doesn't even include a phone.
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yopeeps025 wrote: »More expense than what place is cheap the midwest? No one on the east coast could live off 10K a year unless you want to live in the bad neighbors where you can't walk outside without protection.
Yeah, east coast of the US is expensive, especially in the Boston<->DC corridor, although if you are far enough from the metro areas, prices aren't bad.
That said, I was able to live pretty cheaply in my 20s (this was a while ago, hah, but I think I was making about &8.50/hr) by just renting a whole house with four other pals my age who were working and making similar wages. I had my own room, of course, and access to everything including a nice yard in a decent enough neighborhood. As others have said, I did not view this as steady-state arrangement, I was also preparing for better things long term.
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yopeeps025 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.
Please break that down for me. Break down rent, food, any medical bills, car insurance, phone bills (even just a land line if we're believing poor people don't deserve cell phones, clothes, and any costs relating to children if they have any.
And I don't care if they dropped out or not. I really don't. If I'm gonna eat at mcdonalds, I really don't mind paying less than a dollar extra if it means that some person gets to feed their kids, or pay their bills, or whatever. Dropping out of school doesn't mean their less worthy of a living wage. Sorry.
This is the monthly expenses for one person in a relationship. Some of the expenses are split, others are not. However, the budget is about the same if the person were single because some expenses would go up, but other expenses would go down because you can be more rigid with your spending when single.
Rent + Utilities: $270
Health Insurance: $95
Food: $70-100
Entertainment/Health Club: $50
Car: $50
Internet: $20
Various other expenses: Not much.
Total: $585/month
$7020/year
Obviously, if you were single, you could ditch the car, but rent would be more. You can spend less on entertainment or not bother with a health club. Internet is also optional, but kind of important in this day and age.
It's perfectly do-able. I live in a very expensive part of Canada, where everything is also more expensive than most parts of the USA, and I'm living off of 10k/year.
ETA: Source of budget: http://www.earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions
More expense than what place is cheap the midwest? No one on the east coast could live off 10K a year unless you want to live in the bad neighbors where you can't walk outside without protection.
yeah, I live in the midwest and rent for me for a one bedroom apartment with utilities included was $600 a month. And we're talking about a single person here, not a duel income. Where do you get internet for $20 a month? Health insurance may be 95, but that doesn't include copays, cost of medications, and such. $100 a month for food, fine, okay, but good luck eating healthy/well on only $100 a month. And unless you live downtown, you need a car. (and if you live downtown you're gonna pay WAY more for an apartment) In places like where I live, everything is spread far enough apart where you have to drive to it. So, okay, you have a car payment (unless you're car is somehow paid for already), you have car insurance, and you have gas. That all goes way over $50 a month.
I laughed when I saw the budget poster made.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »"one estimate suggests that raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour could increase the cost of a Big Mac by 68 cents." If paying $.68 more so some kid putting themselves through college can actually take a night off once a week to study is so unpalatable to you, don't eat there. Make your own burgers. It's a job you deem easy enough for them to get paid not a living wage for, do it yourself.
Where I'm from, 90% of the people flipping burgers are people who are high school dropouts and couldn't be bothered to get themselves an education to work a higher paying job.
Then they complain that they don't get paid enough.
Besides, as I mentioned, you can live a good life (almost) anywhere in the USA on $10k/year. That would be $5/hour after taxes if you worked full-time.
Please break that down for me. Break down rent, food, any medical bills, car insurance, phone bills (even just a land line if we're believing poor people don't deserve cell phones, clothes, and any costs relating to children if they have any.
And I don't care if they dropped out or not. I really don't. If I'm gonna eat at mcdonalds, I really don't mind paying less than a dollar extra if it means that some person gets to feed their kids, or pay their bills, or whatever. Dropping out of school doesn't mean their less worthy of a living wage. Sorry.
This is the monthly expenses for one person in a relationship. Some of the expenses are split, others are not. However, the budget is about the same if the person were single because some expenses would go up, but other expenses would go down because you can be more rigid with your spending when single.
Rent + Utilities: $270
Health Insurance: $95
Food: $70-100
Entertainment/Health Club: $50
Car: $50
Internet: $20
Various other expenses: Not much.
Total: $585/month
$7020/year
Obviously, if you were single, you could ditch the car, but rent would be more. You can spend less on entertainment or not bother with a health club. Internet is also optional, but kind of important in this day and age.
It's perfectly do-able. I live in a very expensive part of Canada, where everything is also more expensive than most parts of the USA, and I'm living off of 10k/year.
ETA: Source of budget: http://www.earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions
More expense than what place is cheap the midwest? No one on the east coast could live off 10K a year unless you want to live in the bad neighbors where you can't walk outside without protection.
yeah, I live in the midwest and rent for me for a one bedroom apartment with utilities included was $600 a month. And we're talking about a single person here, not a duel income. Where do you get internet for $20 a month? Health insurance may be 95, but that doesn't include copays, cost of medications, and such. $100 a month for food, fine, okay, but good luck eating healthy/well on only $100 a month. And unless you live downtown, you need a car. (and if you live downtown you're gonna pay WAY more for an apartment) In places like where I live, everything is spread far enough apart where you have to drive to it. So, okay, you have a car payment (unless you're car is somehow paid for already), you have car insurance, and you have gas. That all goes way over $50 a month.
The person I was quoting the numbers from lives in San Francisco. Not exactly a cheap place to live.
The rent is split between two people. If it were one person then yes, it would be more, but then you don't need a car.
Obviously you didn't read my entire post.
I'm not going to argue the facts about this. If you choose to not live frugal, that's your choice. Spend money you don't have (borrowing to own a car, etc.) that's your prerogative. I'm living in one of the most expensive parts of Canada on an income less than the average across the country, yet I'm well on my way to retiring by age 40 (I'm 28). There are people here with half my income that are struggling, and there are people who are making over $250k who are struggling, all of whom live within 10 miles of me.
Oh, and I'm single, and renting my own apartment.
You can choose to be smart with your money, curb your spending, and take control of your finances and therefore your freedom and your life. It has more to do with your mentality than your actual income.
Heck, if I were making minimum wage right now, then suddenly my income were doubled, I'd e able to retire in 5 years because all that money would be extras that I would immediately invest.
As many people have said on here before "You do you and I'll do me." Enjoy your life. I hope you can manage to retire some day.0
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