Vegetarian due to ethics
Replies
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There are vegetarian/vegan alcohols (including beer). I forget the site to find them, but most that are "hardcore" about it will make sure what they drink was made differently.Beer is fined using tropical fish swim bladders. This makes me sad for vegetarians.
The alternative "finings" is Bentonite, clay based, and real ales are not fined [or should not be], just let the yeast settle, which of course takes time, which is why big brewers hate it, time is money, get that keg & lager fizz in and promote it
Not a vegetarian BTW, but was home brewer & wine maker0 -
curious about this too.
didnt have any popcorn, so i'll munch on this.
Looks like a tampon... just sayin'. LOL!0 -
curious about this too.
didnt have any popcorn, so i'll munch on this.
Looks like a tampon... just sayin'. LOL!
Possibly a safer alternative to biting your neck?0 -
how can you tell if someone is vegan.....don't worry they'll tell you0
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Beer is fined using tropical fish swim bladders. This makes me sad for vegetarians.
Not all beer. Actually, most beer is likely not fined using this method. It's popular at the homebrewer level because it's inexpensive and simple. Irish moss (i.e. seaweed) is used a lot as well, and is readily available at homebrew shops for the homebrew level. A lot of breweries filter their beer instead of fining. So I think vegetarians are generally okay drinking beer. Key word is generally.0 -
I think what irritates me is the fact that the decision not to eat a particular food group (meat) makes it an 'ethical' type of decision. If you don't eat meat, then what are you doing to improve animal welfare and diminish suffering? The goal to completely eliminate meat consumption is a lofty (yet incorrect) one but it's proponents rarely think of trying to improve animal's living conditions along the way.
I care about where my food comes from. I don't buy meat raised in terrible conditions. I go out of my way to meet the cow I'll later be eating because I take it seriously - I'm going to take another living thing's life to sustain mine so it's something I don't take lightly. I don't have to be vegan to be ethical about food.0 -
curious about this too.
didnt have any popcorn, so i'll munch on this.
Looks like a tampon... just sayin'. LOL!
whatever it is, it aint vegan.0 -
I've thought about this some, because I know a few vegans. I honestly believe what comes off as moral superiority to some may actually be passionate belief in veganism.
Think about it: Imagine you feel passionate about the mistreatment of animals, and also feel strongly that the meat industry mistreats animals. And you also feel it has a moral component to it. How do you talk about that without risking moral superiority?
If you are making the choice to be vegan on moral grounds, then by definition, your choice is morally superior (at least to you) than the choice not to. Someone self-righteously getting in your face because you eat meat is one thing. Someone claiming their choice not to eat meat - or even suggesting that you do not - is part of what many vegans hold sacred. I don't have a problem with that.
The self-righteous morally-superior crusading vegan stereotype exists because there are people like that. They don't all wear sandals and patchouli, either. But some do. I don't have a problem poking fun at anyone. While I may not agree with veganism, I don't like dismissing someone's ideology based on a stereotype. That just seems lazy.0 -
Why do people assume that those who do things for ethical reasons believe they are morally superior? I'm not a vegetarian, but I've never met one who feels morally superior because of their choice not to eat meat.
Really? I know admittedly few vegans, but wow...can't think of one who doesn't think this way and doesn't actively shame others.
Really? I've been vegan for 2 years, vegetarian for 12 years prior and I NEVER pushed my beliefs on others or thought I was superior because I didn't eat animal products. I did it because I felt guilty abusing/killing animals for my own consumption but never shamed others for eating it.
In fact, I'm the one who is constantly teased at family dinners, from omnivores, with comments like "That's what food eats!" or "Boy, this steak sure is fresh - I bet it was grazing in a field 12 hours ago".
I would have to say of all the vegans & non-vegans I know, the latter is actually the worst when it comes to shaming me for choosing to be vegan.
I can completely relate. Though I am not a vegan, I have been a serious vegetarian for over half of my life, don't wear leather, do my research and choose the most ethical products I can, and I NEVER force what I believe on anyone else. Luckily, my mum is very supportive of me (though she is omnivorous), and when we have family gatherings, she is accommodating to my needs. However, I get plenty of crap from my fiance's family, who eats just about all meats with vegetables as an afterthought. Her mother continuously pokes fun at me for my choices, as do many of my friends who are all obsessed with everything bacon. The thing about their choices is: I COULD CARE LESS. I do what's right for me, my conscience, and my health. The vegetarians/ vegans who are the "Holier than thou" types, are truly only a very, VERY small percentage of the rest of us who believe in live and let live. What you put in your body, doesn't affect me in any way, shape, or form. Do what makes YOU happy, and I will too.0 -
Why does this irritate you?I think what irritates me is the fact that the decision not to eat a particular food group (meat) makes it an 'ethical' type of decision.
Just because someone chooses not to eat meat doesn't then obligate them to do anything else to improve animal welfare.If you don't eat meat, then what are you doing to improve animal welfare and diminish suffering?0 -
Why do people assume that those who do things for ethical reasons believe they are morally superior? I'm not a vegetarian, but I've never met one who feels morally superior because of their choice not to eat meat.
Really? I know admittedly few vegans, but wow...can't think of one who doesn't think this way and doesn't actively shame others.
I'm not like that, I've spent most of my life eating meat and up to this year dairy!
There's some aggressive vegans on face book lol but they are many lovely ones on mfp
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Why does this irritate you?I think what irritates me is the fact that the decision not to eat a particular food group (meat) makes it an 'ethical' type of decision.
Just because someone chooses not to eat meat doesn't then obligate them to do anything else to improve animal welfare.If you don't eat meat, then what are you doing to improve animal welfare and diminish suffering?
It irritates me because that's what I hear. That I'm morally inferior because I eat meat. I don't think I'm inferior or superior because of my diet. Nobody is.
And you're right, if you don't eat meat, there is no obligation on your part to improve animal welfare. Just don't claim you diminish suffering because you don't eat meat. (I don't mean YOU, I mean you in general)0 -
There are vegetarian/vegan alcohols (including beer). I forget the site to find them, but most that are "hardcore" about it will make sure what they drink was made differently.Beer is fined using tropical fish swim bladders. This makes me sad for vegetarians.
I gave up alcohol over 12 years ago, a good thing too considering this information!0 -
I've thought about this some, because I know a few vegans. I honestly believe what comes off as moral superiority to some may actually be passionate belief in veganism.
Think about it: Imagine you feel passionate about the mistreatment of animals, and also feel strongly that the meat industry mistreats animals. And you also feel it has a moral component to it. How do you talk about that without risking moral superiority?
If you are making the choice to be vegan on moral grounds, then by definition, your choice is morally superior (at least to you) than the choice not to. Someone self-righteously getting in your face because you eat meat is one thing. Someone claiming their choice not to eat meat - or even suggesting that you do not - is part of what many vegans hold sacred. I don't have a problem with that.
The self-righteous morally-superior crusading vegan stereotype exists because there are people like that. They don't all wear sandals and patchouli, either. But some do. I don't have a problem poking fun at anyone. While I may not agree with veganism, I don't like dismissing someone's ideology based on a stereotype. That just seems lazy.
Bam conversation done........there is no need to add anymore to this thread, this sums it up quite nicely......thanks for that.0 -
Why do people assume that those who do things for ethical reasons believe they are morally superior? I'm not a vegetarian, but I've never met one who feels morally superior because of their choice not to eat meat.
Really? I know admittedly few vegans, but wow...can't think of one who doesn't think this way and doesn't actively shame others.
The thing is, you may only know of the rude ones because they're the loud ones. They're the ones that get attention. But they make up a very small percentage of all vegans. I'm a vegan and I don't give a crap if somebody eats meat or even if they eat meat around me. It's actually almost a pet peeve of mine when somebody apologizes for eating meat/dairy around me (although I much prefer that over the people who taunt me about being vegan and are like "wow, doesn't this steak look great? It tastes great, too!") Because I know that it's MY personal choice for MYSELF. And if other people don't wanna choose that, then that's okay! I don't think I'm above anybody because of what I choose to consume! As long as somebody isn't shaming me, I'm not gonna shame them, and that's that.
This. My boyfriend tells people I'm a vegetarian more than I do.0 -
Why are you a vegetarian? thread got me thinking
people who are vegetarian due to ethics and for a love of animals
do you still use leather?
read hard cover books?
use commercial shampoo and conditioner?
or other products that have animal in them?
Do Christians follow the ten commandments
Do Buddhists keep pure moral discipline
Does everyone stick rigidly to eating plans and/ or exercise rigidly and indefinitly , no all are human trying their best!0 -
This. I'm not vegetarian or vegan. I don't catch the morally superior vibe from most veg's because I don't feel like my choices are being threatened by them, only that they are very vocal and passionate about what they're eating and not eating. It has nothing to do with how I feel about myself or my choices.I've thought about this some, because I know a few vegans. I honestly believe what comes off as moral superiority to some may actually be passionate belief in veganism.
Think about it: Imagine you feel passionate about the mistreatment of animals, and also feel strongly that the meat industry mistreats animals. And you also feel it has a moral component to it. How do you talk about that without risking moral superiority?
If you are making the choice to be vegan on moral grounds, then by definition, your choice is morally superior (at least to you) than the choice not to. Someone self-righteously getting in your face because you eat meat is one thing. Someone claiming their choice not to eat meat - or even suggesting that you do not - is part of what many vegans hold sacred. I don't have a problem with that.
The self-righteous morally-superior crusading vegan stereotype exists because there are people like that. They don't all wear sandals and patchouli, either. But some do. I don't have a problem poking fun at anyone. While I may not agree with veganism, I don't like dismissing someone's ideology based on a stereotype. That just seems lazy.0 -
Nothing angers me more than people who think they are so ethical because they are vegetarians/vegans. Obviously, you have no idea how all your grains, legumes, etc are grown before they arrive on your plate. Agriculture without animals KILLS soil organisms and watersheds. Petroleum fertilizers, pesticides and excessive irrigation are relied on to keep forcing dying soil to produce. I could go on and on. Oh, and ever thought about the environmental footprint of synthetic materials? If not, maybe you should.
Time to do some more research about what a natural human diet is and all the ethical issues that surrounds ALL food that is provided in stores. There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc.
Life is life. No life should be put above another. Soil organisms are alive, insects are alive, fish are alive, our planet is alive. Even plants have awareness and behaviour. Until we develop chloroplasts and can gather our own energy from the sun, we must consume other life in order to live. That's the reality; deal with it. Stop looking down your nose at other people, at least until you fully understand where your own food comes from. There is NO food that does not involve the death of other life forms. NONE.0 -
I think what irritates me is the fact that the decision not to eat a particular food group (meat) makes it an 'ethical' type of decision. If you don't eat meat, then what are you doing to improve animal welfare and diminish suffering? The goal to completely eliminate meat consumption is a lofty (yet incorrect) one but it's proponents rarely think of trying to improve animal's living conditions along the way.
I care about where my food comes from. I don't buy meat raised in terrible conditions. I go out of my way to meet the cow I'll later be eating because I take it seriously - I'm going to take another living thing's life to sustain mine so it's something I don't take lightly. I don't have to be vegan to be ethical about food.
^This. EVERYONE should understand fully where their food comes from. I've noticed that many vegans and vegetarians are totally disconnected from reality when it comes to how their food got on their plate (and so are many other people, but they aren't claiming their diets to be "ethical"). There are no "deathless" foods and synthetic materials have a huge impact on the environment, both in manufacturing and when discarded. It's fine with me if people choose to be vegan/vegetarian (if they are not children) but I'm infuriated when it's touted as being "ethical".0 -
1. Why are you a vegetarian? Because I was enlightened to how horrific the treatment was to slaughter animals - IOW NOT just that they were killed - but that they were often brutalized, raped or forced to endure disgusting conditions before death.
It's really ironic - some on this thread say vegs feel 'superior' to others - actually most don't eat animals because we DONT feel superior to anyone or anything...
2. Do you still use leather? I don't buy leather, but leather that I have before my lifestyle change I did not dispose of.
3. Read hard cover books? I really don't buy any books - but do read from a Kindle (Not for veg purposes)
4. Use commercial shampoo and conditioner? No. And I would add to this list cosmetics, laundry, household cleaners etc. I shop from www.leapingbunny.org to buy products not tested on animals.
5. Other products that have animal in them? I'm sure I ingest meat or animal products from time to time. It's life. I eat at restaurants, I'm sure i've eaten bugs in food ( ugh!) etc. But that's really not the point.0 -
Akimajuktuq - Who are you talking too? You obviously need to take it down a few notches girlfriend. I'm a veg but that does not make me think I am superior. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that you are superior.
You're statement, "There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc." Is a JOKE
Where can I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass? You need to do some serious research on slaughterhouse conditions my dear.0 -
Akimajuktuq - Who are you talking too? You obviously need to take it down a few notches girlfriend. I'm a veg but that does not make me think I am superior. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that you are superior.
You're statement, "There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc." Is a JOKE
Where can I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass? You need to do some serious research on slaughterhouse conditions my dear.
You DO understand that it's not difficult to find meat that's not been forced to live and grow in inhumane and horrid conditions, right? I think you're the one that needs to do some serious research before being judgmental about a food choice.0 -
Akimajuktuq - Who are you talking too? You obviously need to take it down a few notches girlfriend. I'm a veg but that does not make me think I am superior. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that you are superior.
You're statement, "There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc." Is a JOKE
Where can I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass? You need to do some serious research on slaughterhouse conditions my dear.
Do your research. There are plenty of places that don't have 'horrid' conditions for their livestock when alive or slaughtered. I have been doing a ton of research on where to get grass fed beef that isn't commercially slaughtered and there are plenty of farms around where I live that have this.0 -
Akimajuktuq - Who are you talking too? You obviously need to take it down a few notches girlfriend. I'm a veg but that does not make me think I am superior. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that you are superior.
You're statement, "There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc." Is a JOKE
Where can I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass? You need to do some serious research on slaughterhouse conditions my dear.
Do your research. There are plenty of places that don't have 'horrid' conditions for their livestock when alive or slaughtered. I have been doing a ton of research on where to get grass fed beef that isn't commercially slaughtered and there are plenty of farms around where I live that have this.
Most lamb in this country only gets fed at lean times of year - the rest of the time it is just grass. It is perfectly possible to find/buy grass-fed beef, but I have no problem with barley beef etc either.
The problem is that there are a lot of videos around on youtube etc that show the odd, isloated, horrific incident and pass it off as normality.
I am a sheep farmer and despite the reputation of sheep men in certain parts of the UK.... (:bigsmile: ), I have never "raped my animals for sport" and nor do I know anyone who has, despite mild mannered 'sheepshagger' namecalling shenannigans in the pub.0 -
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You DO understand that it's not difficult to find meat that's not been forced to live and grow in inhumane and horrid conditions, right? I think you're the one that needs to do some serious research before being judgmental about a food choice.
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gryfonclaw - I'm not being judgmental of anyone's decision to eat whatever. Your body your choice. It doesn't bother me - And I, like other veg's said, often get teased about not eating meat. I don't preach to anyone.... I do what I do because it's what's right for ME. End of case.
But let's be real about this. Please, let me know where you buy meat that didn't endure abuse... because no, I don't know of ONE place. That's especially an oxymoron if you eat certain types of meat - veal or foie gras for example.0 -
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Do your research. There are plenty of places that don't have 'horrid' conditions for their livestock when alive or slaughtered. I have been doing a ton of research on where to get grass fed beef that isn't commercially slaughtered and there are plenty of farms around where I live that have this.
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If there are plenty, please share0 -
You DO understand that it's not difficult to find meat that's not been forced to live and grow in inhumane and horrid conditions, right? I think you're the one that needs to do some serious research before being judgmental about a food choice.
gryfonclaw - I'm not being judgmental of anyone's decision to eat whatever. Your body your choice. It doesn't bother me - And I, like other veg's said, often get teased about not eating meat. I don't preach to anyone.... I do what I do because it's what's right for ME. End of case.
But let's be real about this. Please, let me know where you buy meat that didn't endure abuse... because no, I don't know of ONE place. That's especially an oxymoron if you eat certain types of meat - veal or foie gras for example.
Well, from places where you can go out and meet the farmers. For example, we raise veal calves. They run with their mothers (or their foster mothers -- some of our cows are better mothers than others) in the field, until we put them on a truck and take them to a local butcher. You can see inside the slaughtering room, so yes, I know that they are not being kicked, beaten, or otherwise abused. Their meat is not as pale as commercial veal, but our customers are pleased. We also sell grassfed beef, pastured poultry, and pastured eggs.
We are not alone -- there are many others. If you have not found them, you have not looked very hard.
Now, if you still choose to not eat meat because you don't feel that we should make use of animals in this way, that is your decision and I fully support your right to do that. But your statements about the impossibility of finding animals that have been raised on grass and bugs are incorrect.0 -
I am pescatarian (I only eat fish as my source of meat). Not going to go into the long details behind it, but I don't care what anyone else eats as long as the animal was humanely taken care of before it came to my or anyone else's table. I will cook meat for others, but I choose not to eat any meat other than fish. Just a personal choice.
I don't shame anyone for eating red meat, chicken, pork, turkey, etc. What someone does and puts in their own body is their business, I don't let anyone tell me what I can put in my mouth.
I totally respect your choice, however do you realize that treatment of fish caught for consumption is unregulated? At least there are designated checklists *and inspections* for the treatment of just about every other animal that is eaten in the US.0 -
Nice to find that there are Vegetarians and Vegans here at MFP. In answer to the original questions:
I am a recently returned Vegetarian and hoping to stick with it. Why? The most important reason - it just makes me feel good - physically, emotionally, psychologically, intellectually. More specifics: Compassion - I am proud of myself to contribute somewhat less to the suffering of animals. Environmental - I feel more in tune with Nature & I like doing something that I think is better for our world. Spiritual - I feel closer to G-d as a Vegetarian. Health - It's reassuring that I have less chance of becoming sick from eating tainted meat or adversely affecting my health from consuming various components of flesh foods.
Basically, I find eating Vegetarian to be a kinder, gentler way of nourishing my body and my soul. It works for me. Unfortunately, it can be hard in a society of omnivores -- including that of my family -- but I'm trying. At this point, I have only gone so far as to start changing my eating. I would like to go further, as I evolve and move along. It would be great, someday, to get to the point where I am not using leather, being careful about personal care & other products, but I'm not there yet. Taking it "one step at a time" and I don't want to overwhelm myself. But I'm not into trying to convert others to my way of eating or my philosophies. Live and let live works better for me. Also, I try hard to extend my desire for compassion and doing good to humanity -- not just the animals -- being kind, respectful, tolerant, volunteering and helping people when I can.0 -
I just want to say good for you for raising and butchering your animals that way. I don't eat meat because I don't like it (the "ethical/moral" debate is secondary for me and really not that important in my decision). However if I were to return to eating meat, I would prefer to meet and buy from a farmer like you. :flowerforyou:Well, from places where you can go out and meet the farmers. For example, we raise veal calves. They run with their mothers (or their foster mothers -- some of our cows are better mothers than others) in the field, until we put them on a truck and take them to a local butcher. You can see inside the slaughtering room, so yes, I know that they are not being kicked, beaten, or otherwise abused. Their meat is not as pale as commercial veal, but our customers are pleased. We also sell grassfed beef, pastured poultry, and pastured eggs.
We are not alone -- there are many others. If you have not found them, you have not looked very hard.
Now, if you still choose to not eat meat because you don't feel that we should make use of animals in this way, that is your decision and I fully support your right to do that. But your statements about the impossibility of finding animals that have been raised on grass and bugs are incorrect.0
This discussion has been closed.
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