Vegetarian due to ethics

MelsAuntie

As somebody who grew up raising our own ducks, geese, chickens, pigeons, and for a while pigs, for the table, with a dad who hunted and fished to fill the freezer, and who right now has baby ducklings that will be butchered for meat in the fall, I don't understand this attitude at all. That's what farm animals are for, their reason for existence. We pay for their feed and care, they reward us with dinner.

How do you know that's what "farm animals" are for? I mean, where is that written? I mean any animal can be raised on a farm, I recently heard of a man farming lion meat..

That is why those species ( farm animals, meat animals) were domesticated in the first place, and that is why we feed them and house them and care for them,and butcher them when the time comes, for meat, instead of having to hunt them in the wild. THAT is what they are for. It doesn't need to be "written" anyplace. Jeez. Pretty obvious you didn't grow up in the country.

MelsAuntie

Akimajuktuq - Who are you talking too? You obviously need to take it down a few notches girlfriend. I'm a veg but that does not make me think I am superior. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that you are superior.
You're statement, "There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc." Is a JOKE
Where can I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass? You need to do some serious research on slaughterhouse conditions my dear.

You DO understand that it's not difficult to find meat that's not been forced to live and grow in inhumane and horrid conditions, right? I think you're the one that needs to do some serious research before being judgmental about a food choice.

"Where do I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass"? Um, the closest place that I can think of offhand is a mile and a half from our farm, Limousin cattle, raised in big rolling tree-dotted pastures.

glovepuppet

Just saying you are "enlightened" tells me you are elitist as you are also saying that people that eat meat are not. Your other comments also suggest you have yourself on quite the pedestal.

great, thanks for your educated input on who I am and what I think. I appreciate it!

I'm actually surprised that people continue to take you seriously after you claimed that livestock were 'routinely raped'. You are either winding people up or live in your own little dystiopian bubble.

Way to go - you used a big word!

oh good grief! way to kill your own argument.
ridiculing a person for using a common term? that's less than i would expect from a middle school child.
inverse snobbery is a pathetic thing. it stops far too many people from striving to improve themselves.

If you want to eat meat - eat meat. It's not good, bad or indifferent!
But don't patronize and insult people who speak the truth.

and what exactly does that have to do with being offended that somebody knew a word you didn't?

a grown up might... oh... google! google the term, learn something new.
not poke fun at other people for using 'a long word'.

and you claim to be enlightened? does knowledge only count as a good thing if you get to feel like you have more?

MelsAuntie

It is absolutely possible to love animals and care for their well-being and still use them for food, though some of the bunny-huggers and the PETA a-holes can't see it.

Wow.

Yes, absolutely true. Personal lifelong experience.

simplyeater

I guess they don't realize that animal by-products are used in many different things - from paper to WD-40 to clothing to...

So to me their arguments (ethical vs moral vs obligation) make no sense to me. White noise...

I'm sure they realize it. Good thing people don't have to be perfect 100% of the time for it to matter. If our only choices in life were to do nothing or to do every.single.thing. , we'd all be in a lot of trouble.

mazzasweet

Just saying you are "enlightened" tells me you are elitist as you are also saying that people that eat meat are not. Your other comments also suggest you have yourself on quite the pedestal.

great, thanks for your educated input on who I am and what I think. I appreciate it!

I'm actually surprised that people continue to take you seriously after you claimed that livestock were 'routinely raped'. You are either winding people up or live in your own little dystiopian bubble.

Way to go - you used a big word!

oh good grief! way to kill your own argument.
ridiculing a person for using a common term? that's less than i would expect from a middle school child.
inverse snobbery is a pathetic thing. it stops far too many people from striving to improve themselves.

If you want to eat meat - eat meat. It's not good, bad or indifferent!
But don't patronize and insult people who speak the truth.

and what exactly does that have to do with being offended that somebody knew a word you didn't?

a grown up might... oh... google! google the term, learn something new.
not poke fun at other people for using 'a long word'.

and you claim to be enlightened? does knowledge only count as a good thing if you get to feel like you have more?

I was being mocked and you darn well know that - you're just trying to be cute. Instead of cute maybe find yourself some manners. You don't know who people really are behind screen names and you don't know my experience in domestic and farm animal rescue and the horrors I have witnessed.

Like I said earlier - eat meat or don't - It's a personal choice. I'm not preaching either way. BUT don't preach to me that slaughter like it's candy and sunshine - it's not.

Akimajuktuq

Akimajuktuq - Who are you talking too? You obviously need to take it down a few notches girlfriend. I'm a veg but that does not make me think I am superior. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that you are superior.
You're statement, "There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc." Is a JOKE
Where can I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass? You need to do some serious research on slaughterhouse conditions my dear.

Trying leaving your house and getting to know people who grow food and raise animals in your area. (Oops, that might take some time and effort.)

I think I'm VERY clear in my comment that I do not condone factory farming. That includes factory farming of animals AND plants. Any farming practice that destroys soil is NOT ethical. Most people can find farmers in their area who care about the products they produce. Try supporting those people instead of Monsanto cash crops.

mazzasweet

Akimajuktuq - Who are you talking too? You obviously need to take it down a few notches girlfriend. I'm a veg but that does not make me think I am superior. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that you are superior.
You're statement, "There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc." Is a JOKE
Where can I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass? You need to do some serious research on slaughterhouse conditions my dear.

You DO understand that it's not difficult to find meat that's not been forced to live and grow in inhumane and horrid conditions, right? I think you're the one that needs to do some serious research before being judgmental about a food choice.

"Where do I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass"? Um, the closest place that I can think of offhand is a mile and a half from our farm, Limousin cattle, raised in big rolling tree-dotted pastures.

Excuse me miss, we don't all live in Michigan ... just sayin'.

glovepuppet

Just saying you are "enlightened" tells me you are elitist as you are also saying that people that eat meat are not. Your other comments also suggest you have yourself on quite the pedestal.

great, thanks for your educated input on who I am and what I think. I appreciate it!

I'm actually surprised that people continue to take you seriously after you claimed that livestock were 'routinely raped'. You are either winding people up or live in your own little dystiopian bubble.

Way to go - you used a big word!

oh good grief! way to kill your own argument.
ridiculing a person for using a common term? that's less than i would expect from a middle school child.
inverse snobbery is a pathetic thing. it stops far too many people from striving to improve themselves.

If you want to eat meat - eat meat. It's not good, bad or indifferent!
But don't patronize and insult people who speak the truth.

and what exactly does that have to do with being offended that somebody knew a word you didn't?

a grown up might... oh... google! google the term, learn something new.
not poke fun at other people for using 'a long word'.

and you claim to be enlightened? does knowledge only count as a good thing if you get to feel like you have more?

I was being mocked and you darn well know that - you're just trying to be cute. Instead of cute maybe find yourself some manners. You don't know who people really are behind screen names and you don't know my experience in domestic and farm animal rescue and the horrors I have witnessed.

Like I said earlier - eat meat or don't - It's a personal choice. I'm not preaching either way. BUT don't preach to me that slaughter like it's candy and sunshine - it's not.

i don't need to try to be cute.

and, no, you genuinely offend me with your narrow minded disdaine for any vocabulary wider than your own.
you weren't arguing his points, you weren't pointing out his mockery, you were pointing a petty finger at the 'big word', as if knowledge of your own language is something shameful.

attitudes like yours hold society back. attitudes like yours are why geeks feel ostracised and children hide their intellect.

i'm all for animal welfare. i put my money where my mouth is on that one. i'm glad you are aware that there are cruel practices and i'm glad you make others aware. i am, however, disgusted by that post.

MelsAuntie

Akimajuktuq - Who are you talking too? You obviously need to take it down a few notches girlfriend. I'm a veg but that does not make me think I am superior. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that you are superior.
You're statement, "There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc." Is a JOKE
Where can I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass? You need to do some serious research on slaughterhouse conditions my dear.

You DO understand that it's not difficult to find meat that's not been forced to live and grow in inhumane and horrid conditions, right? I think you're the one that needs to do some serious research before being judgmental about a food choice.

"Where do I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass"? Um, the closest place that I can think of offhand is a mile and a half from our farm, Limousin cattle, raised in big rolling tree-dotted pastures.

Excuse me miss, we don't all live in Michigan ... just sayin'.
[/quote


I'M not saying that he is the only farmer like this in the country, or that such meat is sold only in Michigan. Look in your own home area. Unless you live in Antarctica..... ]

Akimajuktuq

Akimajuktuq - Who are you talking too? You obviously need to take it down a few notches girlfriend. I'm a veg but that does not make me think I am superior. You on the other hand have made it quite clear that you are superior.
You're statement, "There is NOTHING unethical about eating wild animals, or farm animals that have been allowed to graze on grass/bugs, etc." Is a JOKE
Where can I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass? You need to do some serious research on slaughterhouse conditions my dear.

You DO understand that it's not difficult to find meat that's not been forced to live and grow in inhumane and horrid conditions, right? I think you're the one that needs to do some serious research before being judgmental about a food choice.

"Where do I find beef that has been allowed to graze on grass"? Um, the closest place that I can think of offhand is a mile and a half from our farm, Limousin cattle, raised in big rolling tree-dotted pastures.

Excuse me miss, we don't all live in Michigan ... just sayin'.

I live in the Arctic.... what's your excuse again?

I have no problem with adults who are vegetarian. I have much problem with people who put themselves above others and claim to be "ethical" or "know the truth" (you said that) when they don't understand the food on their plate. Again, there is NO food that is death-free. Plants are alive and it has even been established that they have awareness and behaviour. Soil organisms are ALIVE and without them we are dead. Agriculture in the absence of animals creates more need for petroleum products and water to make dead soil produce. I'm not saying you should change your diet, but I am saying that you should be well informed about what you believe in so strongly and stop being so venomous to others.

pfgaytriot

Life is life. No life should be put above another.

So you're suggesting we should start frying up humans? You know, since no life should be put above another and all... This just doesn't sound like a very logical argument to me.

(BTW: Not a vegan or vegetarian. I very much love meat.)

mazzasweet

Just saying you are "enlightened" tells me you are elitist as you are also saying that people that eat meat are not. Your other comments also suggest you have yourself on quite the pedestal.

great, thanks for your educated input on who I am and what I think. I appreciate it!

I'm actually surprised that people continue to take you seriously after you claimed that livestock were 'routinely raped'. You are either winding people up or live in your own little dystiopian bubble.

Way to go - you used a big word!

oh good grief! way to kill your own argument.
ridiculing a person for using a common term? that's less than i would expect from a middle school child.
inverse snobbery is a pathetic thing. it stops far too many people from striving to improve themselves.

If you want to eat meat - eat meat. It's not good, bad or indifferent!
But don't patronize and insult people who speak the truth.

and what exactly does that have to do with being offended that somebody knew a word you didn't?

a grown up might... oh... google! google the term, learn something new.
not poke fun at other people for using 'a long word'.

and you claim to be enlightened? does knowledge only count as a good thing if you get to feel like you have more?

I was being mocked and you darn well know that - you're just trying to be cute. Instead of cute maybe find yourself some manners. You don't know who people really are behind screen names and you don't know my experience in domestic and farm animal rescue and the horrors I have witnessed.

Like I said earlier - eat meat or don't - It's a personal choice. I'm not preaching either way. BUT don't preach to me that slaughter like it's candy and sunshine - it's not.

i don't need to try to be cute.

and, no, you genuinely offend me with your narrow minded disdaine for any vocabulary wider than your own.
you weren't arguing his points, you weren't pointing out his mockery, you were pointing a petty finger at the 'big word', as if knowledge of your own language is something shameful.

attitudes like yours hold society back. attitudes like yours are why geeks feel ostracised and children hide their intellect.

i'm all for animal welfare. i put my money where my mouth is on that one. i'm glad you are aware that there are cruel practices and i'm glad you make others aware. i am, however, disgusted by that post.

MY Narrow minded disdain? This must be candid camera. Are you serious right now?
Darlin', I put my $, my Time and Energy into animal welfare. I don't preach to people; I walk the walk. My family eats meat - that's cool, it's their choice. I love them and respect them regardless of what they eat or what anyone else eats. For me, I chose not to eat meat. I responded to this post that asked WHY I went Veg. I answered. I have been attacked, mocked, called an Ahole because I support PETA and ridiculed for my beliefs.

glovepuppet

I'M not saying that he is the only farmer like this in the country, or that such meat is sold only in Michigan. Look in your own home area. Unless you live in Antarctica..... ]

in the uk it's pretty easy to buy free range, farm assured or freedom foods.
better yet, my local butchers buy from local farmers. i can see the animals grazing.

Akimajuktuq

Life is life. No life should be put above another.

So you're suggesting we should start frying up humans? You know, since no life should be put above another and all... This just doesn't sound like a very logical argument to me.

(BTW: Not a vegan or vegetarian. I very much love meat.)

I love it when people get ridiculous. Where did I suggest we should cannibalize our own species? I don't know many mammal species that do that. Come on now. My point is animals are alive, plants are alive, soil is alive. There are NO death-free foods.

glovepuppet

Just saying you are "enlightened" tells me you are elitist as you are also saying that people that eat meat are not. Your other comments also suggest you have yourself on quite the pedestal.

great, thanks for your educated input on who I am and what I think. I appreciate it!

I'm actually surprised that people continue to take you seriously after you claimed that livestock were 'routinely raped'. You are either winding people up or live in your own little dystiopian bubble.

Way to go - you used a big word!

oh good grief! way to kill your own argument.
ridiculing a person for using a common term? that's less than i would expect from a middle school child.
inverse snobbery is a pathetic thing. it stops far too many people from striving to improve themselves.

If you want to eat meat - eat meat. It's not good, bad or indifferent!
But don't patronize and insult people who speak the truth.

and what exactly does that have to do with being offended that somebody knew a word you didn't?

a grown up might... oh... google! google the term, learn something new.
not poke fun at other people for using 'a long word'.

and you claim to be enlightened? does knowledge only count as a good thing if you get to feel like you have more?

I was being mocked and you darn well know that - you're just trying to be cute. Instead of cute maybe find yourself some manners. You don't know who people really are behind screen names and you don't know my experience in domestic and farm animal rescue and the horrors I have witnessed.

Like I said earlier - eat meat or don't - It's a personal choice. I'm not preaching either way. BUT don't preach to me that slaughter like it's candy and sunshine - it's not.

i don't need to try to be cute.

and, no, you genuinely offend me with your narrow minded disdaine for any vocabulary wider than your own.
you weren't arguing his points, you weren't pointing out his mockery, you were pointing a petty finger at the 'big word', as if knowledge of your own language is something shameful.

attitudes like yours hold society back. attitudes like yours are why geeks feel ostracised and children hide their intellect.

i'm all for animal welfare. i put my money where my mouth is on that one. i'm glad you are aware that there are cruel practices and i'm glad you make others aware. i am, however, disgusted by that post.

MY Narrow minded disdain? This must be candid camera. Are you serious right now?
Darlin', I put my $, my Time and Energy into animal welfare. I don't preach to people; I walk the walk. My family eats meat - that's cool, it's their choice. I love them and respect them regardless of what they eat or what anyone else eats. For me, I chose not to eat meat. I responded to this post that asked WHY I went Veg. I answered. I have been attacked, mocked, called an Ahole because I support PETA and ridiculed for my beliefs.

and that has to do with ''a big word'' how? and, for crying out loud, it's not even a big word! it's a common word in common use!

how your feeling picked on justifies that is beyond me.

but no, you feel free to celebrate your ignorance. revel in it!

diodelcibo

Life is life. No life should be put above another.

So you're suggesting we should start frying up humans? You know, since no life should be put above another and all... This just doesn't sound like a very logical argument to me.

(BTW: Not a vegan or vegetarian. I very much love meat.)

I agree with cooking humans .

glovepuppet

So you're suggesting we should start frying up humans? You know, since no life should be put above another and all... This just doesn't sound like a very logical argument to me.

(BTW: Not a vegan or vegetarian. I very much love meat.)

a slight tangent, but you made me think of this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism
jainists take life to be sacred to the point that they will eat a leaf (which a plant can regrow) but not a seed or bulb (which would be the death of a plant). they watch the ground for fear of stepping on bugs.

JellyButter

I'm a vegetarian because I'm not a big fan of meat or fish. I try to go moreo n the organic side. I'm not so hell bent about it.
& @ the first post: Vegetarians usually arent so strict about WHATS in our food unless its gelatin. Going so far about the shampoo and leather etc,, those are usually vegans.


People will have their opinions.
Don't argue because someone wants/does not want to to be a vegetarian.

Sqeekyjojo

Sometimes, that isn't 'shaming' (is that a new American phrase for being a d*ckhead?).

It's demonstrating that, unlike how some veggies/vegans seem to believe, that explaining the food process is enough to convert everybody to feeling exactly the same way (and those are the preachy ones I'm talking about, the type who say 'oh well, if you knew what I did, you'd never touch meat/dairy again', then proceeds to tell everybody at great length about it, not the perfectly normal people who get on with their lives and their choices without bugging others about theirs) - plenty of people are perfectly aware that, in order to eat that steak or bacon or cheese, that animals have to die, whether directly for meat, or indirectly through the slaughter of male calves to maintain dairy herd production. And they are OK about that. They understand and accept it in their moral framework - and are letting you know that.






Of course, some omnis are complete idiots, just like some veg*ns are. But criticise somebody else's food choices on either side, and you're probably going to get a person going on the attack, what with it being the best form of defense and all that.

toaster6

Just saying you are "enlightened" tells me you are elitist as you are also saying that people that eat meat are not. Your other comments also suggest you have yourself on quite the pedestal.

great, thanks for your educated input on who I am and what I think. I appreciate it!

I'm actually surprised that people continue to take you seriously after you claimed that livestock were 'routinely raped'. You are either winding people up or live in your own little dystiopian bubble.

Way to go - you used a big word!

oh good grief! way to kill your own argument.
ridiculing a person for using a common term? that's less than i would expect from a middle school child.
inverse snobbery is a pathetic thing. it stops far too many people from striving to improve themselves.

If you want to eat meat - eat meat. It's not good, bad or indifferent!
But don't patronize and insult people who speak the truth.

and what exactly does that have to do with being offended that somebody knew a word you didn't?

a grown up might... oh... google! google the term, learn something new.
not poke fun at other people for using 'a long word'.

and you claim to be enlightened? does knowledge only count as a good thing if you get to feel like you have more?

I was being mocked and you darn well know that - you're just trying to be cute. Instead of cute maybe find yourself some manners. You don't know who people really are behind screen names and you don't know my experience in domestic and farm animal rescue and the horrors I have witnessed.

Like I said earlier - eat meat or don't - It's a personal choice. I'm not preaching either way. BUT don't preach to me that slaughter like it's candy and sunshine - it's not.

i don't need to try to be cute.

and, no, you genuinely offend me with your narrow minded disdaine for any vocabulary wider than your own.
you weren't arguing his points, you weren't pointing out his mockery, you were pointing a petty finger at the 'big word', as if knowledge of your own language is something shameful.

attitudes like yours hold society back. attitudes like yours are why geeks feel ostracised and children hide their intellect.

i'm all for animal welfare. i put my money where my mouth is on that one. i'm glad you are aware that there are cruel practices and i'm glad you make others aware. i am, however, disgusted by that post.

MY Narrow minded disdain? This must be candid camera. Are you serious right now?
Darlin', I put my $, my Time and Energy into animal welfare. I don't preach to people; I walk the walk. My family eats meat - that's cool, it's their choice. I love them and respect them regardless of what they eat or what anyone else eats. For me, I chose not to eat meat. I responded to this post that asked WHY I went Veg. I answered. I have been attacked, mocked, called an Ahole because I support PETA and ridiculed for my beliefs.

If you like animals, please do not support PETA. They kill so many adoptable animals they take into their shelters-- over 97% some years-- so they don't have to pay for the animals' care. In fact, in 2012, they killed 89% of the animals they took into their "shelters".

JellyButter

If you like animals, please do not support PETA.

This is true.

glovepuppet

If you like animals, please do not support PETA. They kill so many adoptable animals they take into their shelters-- over 97% some years-- so they don't have to pay for the animals' care. In fact, in 2012, they killed 89% of the animals they took into their "shelters".

it's a big business. lots of money to be made from conning donations out of well meaning fools.

ladymiseryali

If you like animals, please do not support PETA. They kill so many adoptable animals they take into their shelters-- over 97% some years-- so they don't have to pay for the animals' care. In fact, in 2012, they killed 89% of the animals they took into their "shelters".

it's a big business. lots of money to be made from conning donations out of well meaning fools.

They need all that money to convince pretty ladies to take off their clothes and pose naked for their ads or to do publicity stunts.

glovepuppet

If you like animals, please do not support PETA. They kill so many adoptable animals they take into their shelters-- over 97% some years-- so they don't have to pay for the animals' care. In fact, in 2012, they killed 89% of the animals they took into their "shelters".

it's a big business. lots of money to be made from conning donations out of well meaning fools.

They need all that money to convince pretty ladies to take off their clothes and pose naked for their ads or to do publicity stunts.

which, by happy coincidence, provides the publicity to attract more fools.

ladymiseryali

If you like animals, please do not support PETA. They kill so many adoptable animals they take into their shelters-- over 97% some years-- so they don't have to pay for the animals' care. In fact, in 2012, they killed 89% of the animals they took into their "shelters".

it's a big business. lots of money to be made from conning donations out of well meaning fools.

They need all that money to convince pretty ladies to take off their clothes and pose naked for their ads or to do publicity stunts.

which, by happy coincidence, provides the publicity to attract more fools.

The sickening circle of life that is PETA......

glovepuppet

If you like animals, please do not support PETA. They kill so many adoptable animals they take into their shelters-- over 97% some years-- so they don't have to pay for the animals' care. In fact, in 2012, they killed 89% of the animals they took into their "shelters".

it's a big business. lots of money to be made from conning donations out of well meaning fools.

They need all that money to convince pretty ladies to take off their clothes and pose naked for their ads or to do publicity stunts.

which, by happy coincidence, provides the publicity to attract more fools.

The sickening circle of life that is PETA......

a lot of charities are like that these days.
a tiny percentage of the money taken in actually reaches the cause.
when i see the people heading along my street, door to door, i google what their chief execs get paid so that i can compare it to my income. i let the well intended know exactly why i feel justified in declining to go without so that some suit can get another roller.

pfgaytriot

Life is life. No life should be put above another.

So you're suggesting we should start frying up humans? You know, since no life should be put above another and all... This just doesn't sound like a very logical argument to me.

(BTW: Not a vegan or vegetarian. I very much love meat.)

I agree with cooking humans .

SteveJWatson

Just saying you are "enlightened" tells me you are elitist as you are also saying that people that eat meat are not. Your other comments also suggest you have yourself on quite the pedestal.

great, thanks for your educated input on who I am and what I think. I appreciate it!

I'm actually surprised that people continue to take you seriously after you claimed that livestock were 'routinely raped'. You are either winding people up or live in your own little dystiopian bubble.

Well how do factor farm animals get pregnant?

By having sex with other animals - by your logic all inter-animal sex is rape.

kennethmgreen

These threads just depress me. I'm vegetarian because I've basically been left unable to digest meat after becoming very ill (hospitalized) in Peru a few years ago. Getting rid of meat in my diet has made my GI issues virtually non-existent and I am so happy with how I now feel that I can't imagine going back.

I'm not a short order cook so my family has changed along with me. Originally they would both eat meat at lunch (cold cuts) and eat meat when we were out for dinner. My daughter (13) decided last fall that she wanted to become fully vegetarian. We both supported her in that decision and talked about nutrition etc. For her it was a love of animals that inspired her choice.

She never makes her friends feel bad, she tells them not to be silly when they worry because they mention how much they want a burger or whatever. She askes if she can bring her own food to parties (veggie burgers) or if a cheese pizza can be ordered, etc, and/or offers to eat the sides and skip the mains. She very much identifies it as a personal choice.

My husband has stopped eating meat at lunch. He says being mostly vegetarian seems to suit his system and that any digestive issues he had before seem to have disappeared. He still eats meat occasionally when we're out for dinner. Neither my daughter or I give him any grief for it.

But what really gets me is that we don't give our family or friends any grief for their eating habits and not a single one of them has given us grief for ours. Both have gone out of their way to make sure there's something we can eat at meals and/or they're okay with us bringing something. No one's ever complained about eating vegetarian at our place and usually we're actually asked for recipes so they can try them at home.

So it amazes me that everyone is so at odds because we haven't encountered any of the animosity evidenced in this thread in the year since we've gone veg.

Lastly, as far as eating vegetarian or vegan but not feeling like you can give up meat, then don't. I read about Kathy Freston and a friend who said he'd never be able to give up his favourite cheeseburger. She just shrugged and said, so don't give it up. Eat vegan or vegetarian most of the time and have your cheeseburger when you feel like it.

Which kind of applies to all "diets" really. If you can't give up your chips or your pop tarts or whatever, then fine, don't give them up. Eat "healthy" 90% of the time and indulge 10%. You're still doing your body better than you were.

Quoted for reasonableness.