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Four bags of Oreos
Replies
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I wonder how people would respond to this post if the OP had said her husband was starving himself to death because of anorexia nervosa? Probably that she should encourage him to get professional help. I believe that chronic overeating is another ED but without the sympathy attached.
I am still not entirely convinced that the OP's husband is not just bringing the food into the house for himself. It seems that sometimes partners are very threatened by the idea that their loved one may become more attractive and find another partner.
talk about comparing apples and oranges..
OP's husband may die from a medical condition at some point later in life VS someone that is doing an action (starving themselves) that will lead to certain death in the very near future.
and the attractive comment is just downright ludicrous...
So if it's (possibly, not definitely) a slower death, it's not a big deal?
Do you have an exact time frame on what constitutes imminent death? Because anorexics can hang on for years too. Or decades. I'd love to hear what you single-handedly have decided constitutes a quick enough death to warrant medical attention of some sort.
Obesity for apparently decades, to the extent of requiring WLS, and now including, at the very least, diabetes (which is no walk in the park) isn't it, so what is? Just curious what your personal determination, that must necessarily be true for everyone, is.
"OP's husband may die from a medical condition at some point later in life..." How much later, for a severely obese patient with restructured insides who is diabetic? Roughly. In your educated estimation, I mean I'm assuming you have your MD at the very least?
No, I don't have an MD, do you?
No, which is why I'm not about to say a morbidly obese person eating around restructured insides with diabetes is A-ok and certainly in no imminent danger, any more than you should feel confident saying he's got years left in him.I am speaking from personal experience. My former boss is a diabetic, very obese, and eats whatever he wants. He is now 65 years old on the same path and has not had any ill effects. /
Oh, a sample size of one? I know a guy in a 1970s Dannon yogurt commercial who's 110 years old and smokes.so yea, I am still calling BS on that example. As it is drawing a similarity between certain death, and the prospect of it somewhere down the line.
I don't know too many people that are going to hang on for years "starving" themselves, which was the example given.
You have never known, nor heard of, anyone who was anorexic for years? Decades?
"Certain death," got any backup for that one? Again, certain how? When? What gives you the idea that any given anorexic's "certain" death is imminent while any given obese WLS diabetic patient's isn't?0 -
[quote="ndj1979;32399662".
I don't know too many people that are going to hang on for years "starving" themselves, which was the example given.[/quote]
Some statistics record 24 million people with Ed's in the USA alone. I do not know the rates of anorexia nervosa alone. The death rate associated with anorexia nervosa has the highest mortality rate of any mental illness and 12 times higher than any other cause of death in females aged 14 - 25. So the fact that you don't know anyone with this disorder is largely irrelevant. I don't know any meth. addicts but that doesn't mean I deny their existence.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I wonder how people would respond to this post if the OP had said her husband was starving himself to death because of anorexia nervosa? Probably that she should encourage him to get professional help. I believe that chronic overeating is another ED but without the sympathy attached.
I am still not entirely convinced that the OP's husband is not just bringing the food into the house for himself. It seems that sometimes partners are very threatened by the idea that their loved one may become more attractive and find another partner.
talk about comparing apples and oranges..
OP's husband may die from a medical condition at some point later in life VS someone that is doing an action (starving themselves) that will lead to certain death in the very near future.
and the attractive comment is just downright ludicrous...
So if it's (possibly, not definitely) a slower death, it's not a big deal?
Do you have an exact time frame on what constitutes imminent death? Because anorexics can hang on for years too. Or decades. I'd love to hear what you single-handedly have decided constitutes a quick enough death to warrant medical attention of some sort. Obesity for apparently decades, to the extent of requiring WLS, and now including, at the very least, diabetes (which is no walk in the park) isn't it, so what is? Just curious what your personal determination, that must necessarily be true for everyone, is.
"OP's husband may die from a medical condition at some point later in life..." How much later, for a severely obese patient with restructured insides who is diabetic? Roughly. In your educated estimation, I mean I'm assuming you have your MD at the very least?
You keep assuming a contrary position without stating what she should actually do besides... what? Fret?
This is what I don't get.
I doubt anyone thinks this isn't concerning. But ... perspective. They had ONE conversation. We don't know the tenor of that conversation.
We know her side of things. We know he failed WLS, but a lot of people do that. We know he went out and bought the food, but that might be a direct response to the tenor of the conversation... but... we. don't know enough to say.
And that's really the bottom line.
What would you suggest the wife do? Other than continue a respectful dialog, is there really anything to be done?
Have you ever lived with an alcoholic?
Yes, I have lived with an alcoholic, and divorced him. What does that have to do with the OP's situation?
I already stated what I felt about what she can do. Which is, sadly, really very little. I do sympathize with her, and I sympathize with her husband as well. I also stated what she can do for herself, anyway, if not him; please read above. I'm sorry; I thought I was pretty clear and explanatory; I already answered your questions here, so please read back.
Do YOU have any clear ideas on what the OP can actually "do"? If so, what are they? Unless you already stated them earlier in the thread; I may have missed them - it is a very long thread.
Very little that she can do. Which is pretty much why I brought up the alcoholic. Same thing. It sucks, but you can't do anything to make them change.
It's sort of why I don't understand why you're being contrary with people who are basically saying the same thing.
There's no one who doesn't feel bad about this, but there are those saying there's not much you can do vs. those suggesting some pretty out there stuff that is pretty boundary pushing.
What I don't get is how you think I'm being contrary to that idea...? I outright stated I don't feel she can change him...?
I'm not sure what you mean or are trying to point out to me, when I'm agreeing with that sentiment?
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[quote="ndj1979;32399662".
I don't know too many people that are going to hang on for years "starving" themselves, which was the example given.Some statistics record 24 million people with Ed's in the USA alone. I do not know the rates of anorexia nervosa alone. The death rate associated with anorexia nervosa has the highest mortality rate of any mental illness and 12 times higher than any other cause of death in females aged 14 - 25. So the fact that you don't know anyone with this disorder is largely irrelevant. I don't know any meth. addicts but that doesn't mean I deny their existence.
i am still waiting on the other study …
where did you get these stats from, or are you not sharing that either?
You don't read so well do you? I said I don't know too many people that are going to live for long when starving themselves. The "I don't know too many people" was a general statement and was not meant to imply that I actually knew anyone or wanted to, but I guess you missed that part of the sentence structure.0 -
12 times higher than any other cause of death in females aged 14 - 25. .
I am sorry, re reading this I can see that this could be misconstrued. What I meant was; The mortality rate associated with anorexia nervosa is 12 times higher than the mortality rate associated with all other causes of death in females aged 14 - 25.0 -
[quote="ndj1979;32399662".
I don't know too many people that are going to hang on for years "starving" themselves, which was the example given.Some statistics record 24 million people with Ed's in the USA alone. I do not know the rates of anorexia nervosa alone. The death rate associated with anorexia nervosa has the highest mortality rate of any mental illness and 12 times higher than any other cause of death in females aged 14 - 25. So the fact that you don't know anyone with this disorder is largely irrelevant. I don't know any meth. addicts but that doesn't mean I deny their existence.
He didn't say he doesn't know anyone with Anorexia, he said he didn't know too many people who would hang on for years starving themselves. Big difference. At no pint did he deny the existence of people with AN.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »I wonder how people would respond to this post if the OP had said her husband was starving himself to death because of anorexia nervosa? Probably that she should encourage him to get professional help. I believe that chronic overeating is another ED but without the sympathy attached.
I am still not entirely convinced that the OP's husband is not just bringing the food into the house for himself. It seems that sometimes partners are very threatened by the idea that their loved one may become more attractive and find another partner.
talk about comparing apples and oranges..
OP's husband may die from a medical condition at some point later in life VS someone that is doing an action (starving themselves) that will lead to certain death in the very near future.
and the attractive comment is just downright ludicrous...
So if it's (possibly, not definitely) a slower death, it's not a big deal?
Do you have an exact time frame on what constitutes imminent death? Because anorexics can hang on for years too. Or decades. I'd love to hear what you single-handedly have decided constitutes a quick enough death to warrant medical attention of some sort. Obesity for apparently decades, to the extent of requiring WLS, and now including, at the very least, diabetes (which is no walk in the park) isn't it, so what is? Just curious what your personal determination, that must necessarily be true for everyone, is.
"OP's husband may die from a medical condition at some point later in life..." How much later, for a severely obese patient with restructured insides who is diabetic? Roughly. In your educated estimation, I mean I'm assuming you have your MD at the very least?
No, I don't have an MD, do you?
I am speaking from personal experience. My former boss is a diabetic, very obese, and eats whatever he wants. He is now 65 years old on the same path and has not had any ill effects.
so yea, I am still calling BS on that example. As it is drawing a similarity between certain death, and the prospect of it somewhere down the line.
I don't know too many people that are going to hang on for years "starving" themselves, which was the example given.
They don't. The people who hang on for years cycle in and out, and often die of the massive damage done to their bodies doing that, even if they are on the road to recovery (Karen Carpenter if we want a famous example).
Right, which is the point. Anorexics who temporarily have their anorexia under control aren't necessarily now non-anorexic (if that's a term). Yes, people can be anorexic for many years and not die, exactly as in the example you've given...which means any given anorexic may face imminent death, or not; just as any given person in the OP's husband's situation may be facing death either sooner or later - we can't tell. He probably can't even tell.
But to put out a blanket statement as the previous poster did that anorexics are facing imminent/certain death (still not sure what that time frame is to be) while people in the OP's husband's situation have years to go just makes no sense at all, I'm sorry.
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I wonder how people would respond to this post if the OP had said her husband was starving himself to death because of anorexia nervosa? Probably that she should encourage him to get professional help. I believe that chronic overeating is another ED but without the sympathy attached.
I am still not entirely convinced that the OP's husband is not just bringing the food into the house for himself. It seems that sometimes partners are very threatened by the idea that their loved one may become more attractive and find another partner.talk about comparing apples and oranges..
OP's husband may die from a medical condition at some point later in life VS someone that is doing an action (starving themselves) that will lead to certain death in the very near future.
and the attractive comment is just downright ludicrous...
So if it's (possibly, not definitely) a slower death, it's not a big deal?
Do you have an exact time frame on what constitutes imminent death? Because anorexics can hang on for years too. Or decades. I'd love to hear what you single-handedly have decided constitutes a quick enough death to warrant medical attention of some sort. Obesity for apparently decades, to the extent of requiring WLS, and now including, at the very least, diabetes (which is no walk in the park) isn't it, so what is? Just curious what your personal determination, that must necessarily be true for everyone, is.
"OP's husband may die from a medical condition at some point later in life..." How much later, for a severely obese patient with restructured insides who is diabetic? Roughly. In your educated estimation, I mean I'm assuming you have your MD at the very least?
No, I don't have an MD, do you?
I am speaking from personal experience. My former boss is a diabetic, very obese, and eats whatever he wants. He is now 65 years old on the same path and has not had any ill effects.
I don't know too many people that are going to hang on for years "starving" themselves, which was the example given.
A sample size of one? I know a guy in an old Dannon commercial who's 110 and smokes.0 -
I have already done the research. I suggest you log into google and type "research papers that indicate partners derail weight loss". That should get you there.
Though the burden is on you to prove your claims by all the rules of logic, I found this article which links to the abstract. I'm not paying to dowload the text of the study.
The abstract doesn't seem to support your claims.
https://news.ncsu.edu/2013/10/wms-romo-weight-2013/
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10410236.2012.736467
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »He didn't say he doesn't know anyone with Anorexia, he said he didn't know too many people who would hang on for years starving themselves. Big difference. At no pint did he deny the existence of people with AN.
But we were discussing anorexia. That was my original point. Also the very definition of anorexia is someone that starves themselves (often for years) because of a mental illness that complicates their relationship with food and body image. Certainly this is an oversimplification, but true nonetheless.0 -
Isn't the a good one, someone does the research then the argument is go find it yourself. You very well know no research was read.
I have already done the research. I suggest you log into google and type "research papers that indicate partners derail weight loss". That should get you there.
sorry does not work that way…if you make a claim, and then claim to have a study to back up said claim, it is your responsibly of provide it. It is not my job to verify your bogus claims.
seriously, if you already have the research then you should have easy access to it, I know I would ….0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have already done the research. I suggest you log into google and type "research papers that indicate partners derail weight loss". That should get you there.
Though the burden is on you to prove your claims by all the rules of logic, I found this article which links to the abstract. I'm not paying to dowload the text of the study.
The abstract doesn't seem to support your claims.
https://news.ncsu.edu/2013/10/wms-romo-weight-2013/
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10410236.2012.736467
from the link …
“This study found that one partner’s lifestyle change influenced the dynamic of couples’ interaction in a variety of positive or negative ways, tipping the scale of romantic relationships in a potentially upward or downward direction,” Romo says. “When both partners bought into the idea of healthy changes and were supportive of one another, weight loss appeared to bring people closer. When significant others resisted healthy changes and were not supportive of their partner’s weight loss, the relationship suffered
this would seem to disagree with the posters premise...0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »He didn't say he doesn't know anyone with Anorexia, he said he didn't know too many people who would hang on for years starving themselves. Big difference. At no pint did he deny the existence of people with AN.
But we were discussing anorexia. That was my original point. Also the very definition of anorexia is someone that starves themselves (often for years) because of a mental illness that complicates their relationship with food and body image. Certainly this is an oversimplification, but true nonetheless.
here is your original quote below in bold:
I wonder how people would respond to this post if the OP had said her husband was starving himself to death because of anorexia nervosa? Probably that she should encourage him to get professional help. I believe that chronic overeating is another ED but without the sympathy attached.
I am still not entirely convinced that the OP's husband is not just bringing the food into the house for himself. It seems that sometimes partners are very threatened by the idea that their loved one may become more attractive and find another partner.
you said certain death and did not qualify anything with "over a period of years"
way to try to and move the goal posts…
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »He didn't say he doesn't know anyone with Anorexia, he said he didn't know too many people who would hang on for years starving themselves. Big difference. At no pint did he deny the existence of people with AN.
But we were discussing anorexia. That was my original point. Also the very definition of anorexia is someone that starves themselves (often for years) because of a mental illness that complicates their relationship with food and body image. Certainly this is an oversimplification, but true nonetheless.
*sigh*
I'm pretty sure ndj's point was that those continuously starving themselves would not hang on for years.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »He didn't say he doesn't know anyone with Anorexia, he said he didn't know too many people who would hang on for years starving themselves. Big difference. At no pint did he deny the existence of people with AN.
But we were discussing anorexia. That was my original point. Also the very definition of anorexia is someone that starves themselves (often for years) because of a mental illness that complicates their relationship with food and body image. Certainly this is an oversimplification, but true nonetheless.
*sigh*
I'm pretty sure ndj's point was that those continuously starving themselves would not hang on for years.
yes…
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I wonder how people would respond to this post if the OP had said her husband was starving himself to death because of anorexia nervosa? Probably that she should encourage him to get professional help. I believe that chronic overeating is another ED but without the sympathy attached.
I am still not entirely convinced that the OP's husband is not just bringing the food into the house for himself. It seems that sometimes partners are very threatened by the idea that their loved one may become more attractive and find another partner.
One conversation, one shopping trip. and people have this guy overeating himself to death. seriously? come on, people. No one starts the journey to eating better, eating in moderation, losing weight in one day. Did any of you do it? Have any of you ever had a backslide? There is a mountain of hypocrisy on this thread, on the word of one OP. Knock it off.0 -
It is so hard to change eating habits! It's taken me three weeks to really be on track, and only because my doctor said my sugar was in the pre-diabetic range. I saw my doctor today. She told me once I got away from sugary items I won't crave sugar. She was so right! I'm down three pounds! I did visit a friend and she had made a glazed lemon nut and raisin pastry. First I emphatically said no, and then ten minutes later I had a medium size piece. I recorded what I ate all day and was happy with the numbers. I know I always feel I can't have a certain food. Maybe your husband is in that mode where he has to 'pig out' because he feels it could be the last time he'll be indulging. Let it begin with you. You can't help him. You have to put yourself first. One day at a time! Check out my daily food diary! You'll see I was snacking big time and after three weeks, finally got a handle on it. Hope we can help each other!! Detach with love!
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seriously, if you already have the research then you should have easy access to it, I know I would ….
Really? You don't do a lot of research then. I have researched literally thousands of papers in my career. I can honestly say that I do not have easy access to all of them, but can remember snippets of information from them. I do not understand this mania for people demanding to see research papers when, by and large, they would be totally unqualified to critique them any useful way. Nonetheless a quick google search illicited this response (sorry I do not know how to cut and paste on my phone) "Emma Innes quoting research by The University of Southern Carolina & University of Texas in The Daily Mail 23 October 2013 The title of the article is "How Losing Weight Can Be Bad For Your Relationship..." I read the original research paper so got the universities wrong.0 -
Also, that ED example is kind of a fail. Yes, you can encourage them to get help, but until they are damn well good and ready to recover it's going to fall on deaf ears. Even if they reach the point of hospitisation, if they don't want to recover they're just going to go right back to the ED behaviour after. No one said the OP should just keep silent, they said her hubby isn't likely to change until he's ready.0
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »He didn't say he doesn't know anyone with Anorexia, he said he didn't know too many people who would hang on for years starving themselves. Big difference. At no pint did he deny the existence of people with AN.
But we were discussing anorexia. That was my original point. Also the very definition of anorexia is someone that starves themselves (often for years) because of a mental illness that complicates their relationship with food and body image. Certainly this is an oversimplification, but true nonetheless.
*sigh*
I'm pretty sure ndj's point was that those continuously starving themselves would not hang on for years.
Ummm...so then I really AM confused on what constitutes worthy of medical attention here, and what isn't.
"Just" anorexic off and on with all the physical (and mental) damage but with periods of, say, force-feeding or hospitalization or, sometimes, a brief breakthrough via therapy, so that they don't actually die right away, but instead, hang on for years, aren't worthy of this medical attention that was the original point to this part of the thread (if anyone even does remember the original point any more), and was deemed downright silly in a case like the OP's husband's, which was the comparison (again, original point, anyone?)?
I agree with one part of your post here: Sigh, indeed.
Because now things really ARE getting silly.
I can't keep up with the semantics-go-round since it is, as always, entirely unproductive and helps nobody, so I'm out on this one, but I do hope the OP comes to some sort of peace with this and of course I hope that at some point, her husband decides to make a change. I think there's always hope. And I always hold out for it.
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