Calorie deficit = no muscle mass gain. so why am I stronger?
mrswine
Posts: 263 Member
The topic says it all. I have read on here for months that you cannot gain muscle in a calorie deficit. So here is my question. If I cannot gain muscle mass in a calorie deficit, how am I continually getting stronger? Can you gain strength without gaining muscle? I am able to lift more weights, do more pushes and am generally stronger but I have been in a calorie deficit for the past 6 months. Sorry if this question is completely ignorant but I just haven't seen an explanation for this on the site - just a constant influx of comments that you cant gain muscle in a calorie deficit. Thanks for any info!
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I'm curious about the same thing. I assume that new weight lifters can make small gains on a deficit. Not enough to put on substantial size, but enough to see marked improvement compared to muscles that are never trained.
After a while it is very hard to gain additional strength on a deficit.0 -
I've read a lot about it and know that if you are extremely obese you can gain muscle in a calorie deficit for a short amount of time. However, even that extremely detailed and informative article (will try to find link in old thread) didnt explain how I could be getting stronger in a deficit.0
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Novices can get a bit of muscle gains on a deficit, though the strength increases come from taxing your central nervous system. When you recover, from my understanding, your central nervous system is able to more readily recruit motor units and increase the synchronization of the nerves firing. Or something like that.
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30573130 -
I too would like to know. I mean, in another thread I saw a recommendation for 250 calories > TDEE for gaining muscle mass. But I don't see why that 250 calories can't be represented by a bit more fat loss.
What are we all missing?0 -
I'm skeptical too. If you have some energy stores in the form of fat, and you are strength training, your body ought to be able to access that energy and build some muscle, assuming that you eat enough protein to get the amino acids for building them.0
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the obese beginner will see some initial muscle gains but this only lasts for about first two to three months of training...
You can get stronger while in a deficit, i.e. lift heavier stuff; it just means that your muscles are adapting to what you are lifting but you are not actually building additional muscle.
I have steadily increased my deadlift while eating in deficit; it does not mean that I have added muscle, just means I am stronger...big difference...0 -
Here is a good video on the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU6LeZRhv6M 0 -
Novices can get a bit of muscle gains on a deficit, though the strength increases come from taxing your central nervous system. When you recover, from my understanding, your central nervous system is able to more readily recruit motor units and increase the synchronization of the nerves firing. Or something like that.
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3057313
Very interesting.0 -
I'm skeptical too. If you have some energy stores in the form of fat, and you are strength training, your body ought to be able to access that energy and build some muscle, assuming that you eat enough protein to get the amino acids for building them.
sorry but no...your body turns to fat stores to function essential bodily functions ..organ function, breathing, digestive function etc...
You need extra energy in form of more calories to go to muscle building..0 -
Meta and Derping FTW... nothing left to say.... i guess I could say neural adaption, but, I believe thats what derp was describing0
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Novices can get a bit of muscle gains on a deficit, though the strength increases come from taxing your central nervous system. When you recover, from my understanding, your central nervous system is able to more readily recruit motor units and increase the synchronization of the nerves firing. Or something like that.
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3057313
Very interesting.
you are essentially training your muscles to lift heavier things..you are just not building additional muscle...you are basically increasing muscle productivity...0 -
Novices can get a bit of muscle gains on a deficit, though the strength increases come from taxing your central nervous system. When you recover, from my understanding, your central nervous system is able to more readily recruit motor units and increase the synchronization of the nerves firing. Or something like that.
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3057313
Very interesting.
you are essentially training your muscles to lift heavier things..you are just not building additional muscle...you are basically increasing muscle productivity...
That makes sense. I think my disconnect was not understanding how you can get stronger without building muscle.0 -
Here is a good video on the subject.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU6LeZRhv6M
Thanks!0 -
I'm not saying it's not true but this whole thing has confused me as well. I DEFINITELY have put on muscle and I've been eating at a deficit for about a year now. I am FAR from obese and I'm not a beginner...Soooo...what gives? Has my body just adjusted to the deficit or what? lol Although, honestly, I don't care what I read on the internet anymore. I just look at my body and see if what I'm doing is working for me personally.0
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I'm not saying it's not true but this whole thing has confused me as well. I DEFINITELY have put on muscle and I've been eating at a deficit for about a year now. I am FAR from obese and I'm not a beginner...Soooo...what gives? Has my body just adjusted to the deficit or what? lol Although, honestly, I don't care what I read on the internet anymore. I just look at my body and see if what I'm doing is working for me personally.
You're not gaining muscle, you're losing fat. Thus, your muscles are beginning to show more so you appear to have gained size.0 -
I'm skeptical too. If you have some energy stores in the form of fat, and you are strength training, your body ought to be able to access that energy and build some muscle, assuming that you eat enough protein to get the amino acids for building them.
sorry but no...your body turns to fat stores to function essential bodily functions ..organ function, breathing, digestive function etc...
You need extra energy in form of more calories to go to muscle building..
I'll see what I can find on Google scholar. You need amino acids and ATP to build proteins. Cells can make ATP from fatty acids - no problem. The main exception is the brain, which needs glucose or ketone bodies. Muscle cells can definitely use fatty acids.0 -
I'm not saying it's not true but this whole thing has confused me as well. I DEFINITELY have put on muscle and I've been eating at a deficit for about a year now. I am FAR from obese and I'm not a beginner...Soooo...what gives? Has my body just adjusted to the deficit or what? lol Although, honestly, I don't care what I read on the internet anymore. I just look at my body and see if what I'm doing is working for me personally.
You're not gaining muscle, you're losing fat. Thus, your muscles are beginning to show more so you appear to have gained size.
If muscles are being revealed just because I'm losing fat, how come people who just diet with no strength training at all don't have muscle definition? P.s. I'm not arguing your statement, I'm just asking because I sincerely have no clue. All of this makes my head hurt. lol0 -
You might have put on a little muscle, but anyone who just reduces their body fat enough will look more muscular regardless of how much muscle they have. It's more illusion than actual muscle gain.I'm not saying it's not true but this whole thing has confused me as well. I DEFINITELY have put on muscle and I've been eating at a deficit for about a year now. I am FAR from obese and I'm not a beginner...Soooo...what gives? Has my body just adjusted to the deficit or what? lol Although, honestly, I don't care what I read on the internet anymore. I just look at my body and see if what I'm doing is working for me personally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Google "neuromuscular adaptation".The topic says it all. I have read on here for months that you cannot gain muscle in a calorie deficit. So here is my question. If I cannot gain muscle mass in a calorie deficit, how am I continually getting stronger? Can you gain strength without gaining muscle? I am able to lift more weights, do more pushes and am generally stronger but I have been in a calorie deficit for the past 6 months...
Your nervous system adapts to the load being placed upon it by becoming more efficient at recruiting/utilizing your existing muscles. You can make very significant strength gains without adding muscle.0 -
Because people who diet alone ALSO lose muscle along with the fat and for them to get to lower body fat percentages is much harder. Resistance training helps to RETAIN lean muscle as well as increase metabolic rate and encourage fat burning where dieting alone lowers metabolic rate and fat burning is less proficient.I'm not saying it's not true but this whole thing has confused me as well. I DEFINITELY have put on muscle and I've been eating at a deficit for about a year now. I am FAR from obese and I'm not a beginner...Soooo...what gives? Has my body just adjusted to the deficit or what? lol Although, honestly, I don't care what I read on the internet anymore. I just look at my body and see if what I'm doing is working for me personally.
You're not gaining muscle, you're losing fat. Thus, your muscles are beginning to show more so you appear to have gained size.
If muscles are being revealed just because I'm losing fat, how come people who just diet with no strength training at all don't have muscle definition? P.s. I'm not arguing your statement, I'm just asking because I sincerely have no clue. All of this makes my head hurt. lol
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Everyone that thinks they build muscle in a deficit needs to go into a surplus and actually build a few pounds of muscle. When you know what it is actually like, it is pretty obvious that you did not build muscle in any meaningful quantity when in a deficit.
I argued the other side of this argument here long ago, firmly convinced that I had built muscle. Then I did some bulking and actually built muscle. Actually building muscle is obvious.
All that muscle weighs more than fat nonsense you see, in reality both weigh about what water weighs. A pound of muscle is about the size of a pint. It doesn't take a whole lot to be a pretty obvious difference.0 -
I'm not saying it's not true but this whole thing has confused me as well. I DEFINITELY have put on muscle and I've been eating at a deficit for about a year now. I am FAR from obese and I'm not a beginner...Soooo...what gives? Has my body just adjusted to the deficit or what? lol Although, honestly, I don't care what I read on the internet anymore. I just look at my body and see if what I'm doing is working for me personally.
You're not gaining muscle, you're losing fat. Thus, your muscles are beginning to show more so you appear to have gained size.
If muscles are being revealed just because I'm losing fat, how come people who just diet with no strength training at all don't have muscle definition? P.s. I'm not arguing your statement, I'm just asking because I sincerely have no clue. All of this makes my head hurt. lol
Strength training causes a semi-permanent pump in muscles, that takes a few weeks/months to really reach maximum effect. They fill up with water, get firm, and weight more. It is not new muscle. Quit strength training and within a week or two you'll pee away all this "muscle", and they will return to a soft state (though it will come back faster the next time around, unless you quit for a long time).0 -
People need to realize that "building muscle" and "gaining strength" are not the same thing. When you gain strength, you are just recruiting more muscle fibers that you already have, not creating new ones.
Think about learning...go to school, earn 3 Ph.D.'s, an M.D., and some various other degrees within a short period of time. Did you brain grow so large that it is bursting out of your skull? Or did you just start using more of what you already had to retain that new info?0 -
All that muscle weighs more than fat nonsense you see, in reality both weigh about what water weighs. A pound of muscle is about the size of a pint. It doesn't take a whole lot to be a pretty obvious difference.
If that were true, then the water displacement method of measuring body fat percentage wouldn't work, because it is based on body fat having a lower mass per unit of volume than lean body mass does.0 -
All that muscle weighs more than fat nonsense you see, in reality both weigh about what water weighs. A pound of muscle is about the size of a pint. It doesn't take a whole lot to be a pretty obvious difference.
If that were true, then the water displacement method of measuring body fat percentage wouldn't work, because it is based on body fat having a lower mass per unit of volume than lean body mass does.
ahhhhhhh
::face desk::
a pound is a pound is a pound
weight, volume, and density are NOT synonyms... FFS0 -
wcr0
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Reading thread~0
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I'm not saying it's not true but this whole thing has confused me as well. I DEFINITELY have put on muscle and I've been eating at a deficit for about a year now. I am FAR from obese and I'm not a beginner...Soooo...what gives? Has my body just adjusted to the deficit or what? lol Although, honestly, I don't care what I read on the internet anymore. I just look at my body and see if what I'm doing is working for me personally.
You're not gaining muscle, you're losing fat. Thus, your muscles are beginning to show more so you appear to have gained size.
Okay, my arms have always been very skinny- my husband calls them spaghetti arms.
There was barely any fat for muscles to hide under.
I eat at a deficit but see definite muscle definition in my arms and shoulders that I didn't have before.
So, how does that fit into your explanation?0 -
These were posted on another similar thread and are helpful...
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html0 -
1.) Your muscles fill with water/glycogen as a result of strength training, making them look more "full". This is not true muscle tissue gain, even though the muscles do appear more prominent.Okay, my arms have always been very skinny- my husband calls them spaghetti arms.
There was barely any fat for muscles to hide under.
I eat at a deficit but see definite muscle definition in my arms and shoulders that I didn't have before.
So, how does that fit into your explanation?
2.) Even though you may not have had much fat covering the muscles, there was still fat there. As you lose it, muscle definition increases, revealing the fuller/more prominent muscles from 1) above.0
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