Calorie deficit = no muscle mass gain. so why am I stronger?

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  • grggmrtn
    grggmrtn Posts: 171 Member
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    Slightly worrying info for a n00b, considering the problems I'm having getting out of my calorie deficit (and I'm a dude, so DOH yeah I want muscles) - BUT, still want to tag this post for future reference :)
  • 3foldchord
    3foldchord Posts: 2,918 Member
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    Strength gain =/= muscle gain ...from my understanding.
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
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    The topic says it all. I have read on here for months that you cannot gain muscle in a calorie deficit. So here is my question. If I cannot gain muscle mass in a calorie deficit, how am I continually getting stronger? Can you gain strength without gaining muscle? I am able to lift more weights, do more pushes and am generally stronger but I have been in a calorie deficit for the past 6 months. Sorry if this question is completely ignorant but I just haven't seen an explanation for this on the site - just a constant influx of comments that you cant gain muscle in a calorie deficit. Thanks for any info!

    Short answer: yes, you can.

    Longer answer: neural adaptations allow for more muscle fiber recruitment and greater force of contraction in your muscles when you lift. Form improvements also aid in moving more weight.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,578 Member
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    Okay, my arms have always been very skinny- my husband calls them spaghetti arms.
    There was barely any fat for muscles to hide under.
    I eat at a deficit but see definite muscle definition in my arms and shoulders that I didn't have before.
    So, how does that fit into your explanation?
    Any muscle when stressed will "blow up" from water and glycogen retention in the cells. This is usually why people will gain weight when they first start lifting. Now if you had hardly any fat on your arms, then this is a place where it stores it least. The places least to store are usually the first to lose fat, so as you lose you've lowered that body fat even more. If you've ever seen someone lose just 2% bodyfat, it can mean the difference between having visible abs and not.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,578 Member
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    How long do your muscles stay "full" after strength training?
    Is this temporary only lasting a few hours etc. or permanent if you continue to lift on a regular basis?
    Permanent if you continue. It's what gives the muscle that "hard" feel when you touch it.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • Mustang_Susie
    Mustang_Susie Posts: 7,045 Member
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    How long do your muscles stay "full" after strength training?
    Is this temporary only lasting a few hours etc. or permanent if you continue to lift on a regular basis?
    Permanent if you continue. It's what gives the muscle that "hard" feel when you touch it.

    Ah, ninerbuff thank you for simple, straightforward, concise answers.
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
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    All that muscle weighs more than fat nonsense you see, in reality both weigh about what water weighs. A pound of muscle is about the size of a pint. It doesn't take a whole lot to be a pretty obvious difference.

    If that were true, then the water displacement method of measuring body fat percentage wouldn't work, because it is based on body fat having a lower mass per unit of volume than lean body mass does.


    ahhhhhhh

    ::face desk::

    a pound is a pound is a pound


    weight, volume, and density are NOT synonyms... FFS

    Human body fat has a lower specific gravity than muscle does, which means that it is less dense, which means that it weighs less per unit of volume, which means that pound of fat takes up more space than a pound of muscle.
  • Vini9
    Vini9 Posts: 343 Member
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    Bump lots of good info :)
  • rmhand
    rmhand Posts: 1,067 Member
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    Muscle mass and strength are 2 different things. Strength is actually a mental perception.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    Muscle mass and strength are 2 different things. Strength is actually a mental perception.
    How is it a "mental perception" if, for example, you increase your bench press 1RM from 80 lbs. to 135 lbs.? That's not perception, that's an actual, measurable increase in strength.
  • Alphastate
    Alphastate Posts: 295 Member
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    I am 1.5 weeks into a cutting phase (Granted I'm taking a fat burner and am supplementing with BCAAs for the first time ever). I am tracking everything.

    Beginning - 178 lbs, 13.1% BF.
    This morning - 177lbs, 12.4% BF.

    These numbers are from calipers, read by the same person, at the same time of day.
    Doing the math, that is 1.4 lbs of fat loss and .4 lb of lean mass gain. Even taking any kind of variance into account, there was some muscle gain.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    I am 1.5 weeks into a cutting phase (Granted I'm taking a fat burner and am supplementing with BCAAs for the first time ever). I am tracking everything.

    Beginning - 178 lbs, 13.1% BF.
    This morning - 177lbs, 12.4% BF.

    These numbers are from calipers, read by the same person, at the same time of day.
    Doing the math, that is 1.4 lbs of fat loss and .4 lb of lean mass gain. Even taking any kind of variance into account, there was some muscle gain.

    I'm not convinced that you truly understand what a "variance" (or "margin of error") actually means.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    I am 1.5 weeks into a cutting phase (Granted I'm taking a fat burner and am supplementing with BCAAs for the first time ever). I am tracking everything.

    Beginning - 178 lbs, 13.1% BF.
    This morning - 177lbs, 12.4% BF.

    These numbers are from calipers, read by the same person, at the same time of day.
    Doing the math, that is 1.4 lbs of fat loss and .4 lb of lean mass gain. Even taking any kind of variance into account, there was some muscle gain.
    As a personal trainer, I'd think you would know that the inherent error/variance in skinfold caliper measurements is generally accepted to be in the 5% - 15% range. Accurately measuring a 0.7% change in BF% is a pretty dubious reach.
  • MisterDerpington
    MisterDerpington Posts: 604 Member
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    My god why is this thread still going? The question was answered correctly in the first page.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    My god why is this thread still going?
    Because:

    hurr-durr-hurrdurr-graph.png
  • Alphastate
    Alphastate Posts: 295 Member
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    I am 1.5 weeks into a cutting phase (Granted I'm taking a fat burner and am supplementing with BCAAs for the first time ever). I am tracking everything.

    Beginning - 178 lbs, 13.1% BF.
    This morning - 177lbs, 12.4% BF.

    These numbers are from calipers, read by the same person, at the same time of day.
    Doing the math, that is 1.4 lbs of fat loss and .4 lb of lean mass gain. Even taking any kind of variance into account, there was some muscle gain.
    As a personal trainer, I'd think you would know that the inherent error/variance in skinfold caliper measurements is generally accepted to be in the 5% - 15% range. Accurately measuring a 0.7% change in BF% is a pretty dubious reach.
    I don't know where you heard a skin caliper margin of error being 15%, but I think my point of the "variance" comment has been misinterpreted. The variance you're referring to applies to actual BF% vs. calculated BF%. The variance I'm referring to is exactly what I listed. Who takes the measurements each time, what time of day you measure, etc. Those variances, like water weight variances, are much smaller.
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    The topic says it all. I have read on here for months that you cannot gain muscle in a calorie deficit. So here is my question. If I cannot gain muscle mass in a calorie deficit, how am I continually getting stronger? Can you gain strength without gaining muscle? I am able to lift more weights, do more pushes and am generally stronger but I have been in a calorie deficit for the past 6 months. Sorry if this question is completely ignorant but I just haven't seen an explanation for this on the site - just a constant influx of comments that you cant gain muscle in a calorie deficit. Thanks for any info!
    Muscles are made of sub-units, each of which is either totally relaxed or totally contracting. If they all fired in random sequences, or all at the same time, etc, they wouldn't be nearly as efficient as they are when fired in the optimal sequence that best takes advantage of the leverage at that point in the move, versus the amount of force a muscle unit provides. When someone is new to lifting and tries to lift more than their max, all of their muscle fibers do in fact contract, it's just that the ordering of it is so sloppy that it accomplishes little to nothing.

    So as I understand it, the strength gains without mass gains are basically a matter of coordination, much like learning to do maneuvers on a video game controller, or how to do a flip, throw a fastball, or whatever. IOW strength gains would result from increased 'coordination' of the firing of muscles as the motor units in charge of firing them learn the optimal sequence/timing.
  • CrankMeUp
    CrankMeUp Posts: 2,860 Member
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    IN for strength gains.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    I don't know where you heard a skin caliper margin of error being 15%, but I think my point of the "variance" comment has been misinterpreted. The variance you're referring to applies to actual BF% vs. calculated BF%. The variance I'm referring to is exactly what I listed. Who takes the measurements each time, what time of day you measure, etc. Those variances, like water weight variances, are much smaller.
    Here, amongst others: http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=250

    His creds and curriculum vitae are under the "Meet the Editor" tab on his site.
  • manique45
    manique45 Posts: 99 Member
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    bump for later.

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