The Clean Eating Myth
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Replies
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kshama2001 wrote: »Oh, here's the article I wanted:
Which Diet Works?
One of the challenges of arguing that hyperprocessed carbohydrates are largely responsible for the obesity pandemic (“epidemic” is no longer a strong enough word, say many experts) is the notion that “a calorie is a calorie.”
Accept that, and you buy into the contention that consuming 100 calories’ worth of sugar water (like Coke or Gatorade), white bread or French fries is the same as eating 100 calories of broccoli or beans. And Big Food — which has little interest in selling broccoli or beans — would have you believe that if you expend enough energy to work off those 100 calories, it simply doesn’t matter.
There’s an increasing body of evidence, however, that calories from highly processed carbohydrates like white flour (and of course sugar) provide calories that the body treats differently, spiking both blood sugar and insulin and causing us to retain fat instead of burning it off.
In other words, all calories are not alike.
Read more: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/which-diet-works/
well put. thank you. all calories are not alike.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Oh, here's the article I wanted:
Which Diet Works?
One of the challenges of arguing that hyperprocessed carbohydrates are largely responsible for the obesity pandemic (“epidemic” is no longer a strong enough word, say many experts) is the notion that “a calorie is a calorie.”
Accept that, and you buy into the contention that consuming 100 calories’ worth of sugar water (like Coke or Gatorade), white bread or French fries is the same as eating 100 calories of broccoli or beans. And Big Food — which has little interest in selling broccoli or beans — would have you believe that if you expend enough energy to work off those 100 calories, it simply doesn’t matter.
There’s an increasing body of evidence, however, that calories from highly processed carbohydrates like white flour (and of course sugar) provide calories that the body treats differently, spiking both blood sugar and insulin and causing us to retain fat instead of burning it off.
In other words, all calories are not alike.
Read more: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/which-diet-works/
well put. thank you. all calories are not alike.
OK sure. No need to start an argue about units of measurements =/= same units of measurements.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
If this is true, then everyone that is counting calories is off by the same error margin so it should not make a difference, because assuming that my calorie count is off by 25% that just means that if my maintenance level is 2000 and I think I am eating 2000 but really eating 2500 (25% error rate) than my real maintenance level is 2500...
Not correct – according to the report, a person's error margin would be influenced by how many high-GI and high-fibre foods they consume. So not the same for everyone.
No, you are missing the point.
If I figure my maintenance based on my current loss rate and decide it's 2200, but I eat mostly processed foods, I'm probably right, and it probably is about 2200. So when I eat 1700 to lose 1 lb/week I probably will.
Similarly, if I think it's 2200 but eat lots of meat and high fiber foods, chances are I'm wrong and it's really 2000. But when I eat my 1700, that also will be more like 1500 (or close enough), so I should lose 1 lb/week then too.
It doesn't matter unless you think your maintenance is defined by some calculator and aren't willing to adjust based on real world results.
That makes sense. Thanks.
So it would be a problem, then, if a person varied their diet a lot, and ate lots of processed foods one day and none the next. A problem if they were counting calories, I mean.
It could also help to explain why some people who go cold turkey from processed onto clean eating lose so rapidly – they're probably cutting their calories by more than they think.
Basically the way calories for certain foods have been calculated is incorrect.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Oh, here's the article I wanted:
Which Diet Works?
One of the challenges of arguing that hyperprocessed carbohydrates are largely responsible for the obesity pandemic (“epidemic” is no longer a strong enough word, say many experts) is the notion that “a calorie is a calorie.”
Accept that, and you buy into the contention that consuming 100 calories’ worth of sugar water (like Coke or Gatorade), white bread or French fries is the same as eating 100 calories of broccoli or beans. And Big Food — which has little interest in selling broccoli or beans — would have you believe that if you expend enough energy to work off those 100 calories, it simply doesn’t matter.
There’s an increasing body of evidence, however, that calories from highly processed carbohydrates like white flour (and of course sugar) provide calories that the body treats differently, spiking both blood sugar and insulin and causing us to retain fat instead of burning it off.
In other words, all calories are not alike.
Read more: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/which-diet-works/
well put. thank you. all calories are not alike.
How do you imagine this article is relevant to the OP?
I really am curious.0 -
Ok - run an experiment on yourself. Eat in a caloric surplus of 500 calories of the "right" calories. Do this for three months and report back with the results. I 100% guarantee you will gain weight.
When I lived in the wilds of Costa Rica for two months and had no access to processed or otherwise junk foods, I lost 20 pounds effortlessly. I didn't log calories, but had three meals and one or two snacks per day and was never hungry. Food cravings were not really an issue, as pizza, ice cream, etc. simply were not available. I did eat a lot of mango, bananas, and pineapple. Supermarket bananas are like a completely different food from these bananas, which were like ambrosia from the gods.
(When I say "wilds," I mean that literally. We were in the last town before the jungle separating Costa Rica from Panana. Farmers delivered rice and beans to us on horseback. A veggie truck was scheduled to come twice a week, but sometimes the road was washed out and it couldn't make it, in which case we had more green papaya salad and otherwise foraged.)
So, yeah, I'm in the clean food camp. My challenge is doing it amidst a plethora of unhealthy choices, and while cooking for people who don't want to be super-clean.
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But you lost weight due to lack of availability to many foods and probably you were more active. So it wasn't the fact that your foods were more natural, but rather more limited and unavailable, so you were forced to eat lower calorie foods.kshama2001 wrote: »Ok - run an experiment on yourself. Eat in a caloric surplus of 500 calories of the "right" calories. Do this for three months and report back with the results. I 100% guarantee you will gain weight.
When I lived in the wilds of Costa Rica for two months and had no access to processed or otherwise junk foods, I lost 20 pounds effortlessly. I didn't log calories, but had three meals and one or two snacks per day and was never hungry. Food cravings were not really an issue, as pizza, ice cream, etc. simply were not available. I did eat a lot of mango, bananas, and pineapple. Supermarket bananas are like a completely different food from these bananas, which were like ambrosia from the gods.
(When I say "wilds," I mean that literally. We were in the last town before the jungle separating Costa Rica from Panana. Farmers delivered rice and beans to us on horseback. A veggie truck was scheduled to come twice a week, but sometimes the road was washed out and it couldn't make it, in which case we had more green papaya salad and otherwise foraged.)
So, yeah, I'm in the clean food camp. My challenge is doing it amidst a plethora of unhealthy choices, and while cooking for people who don't want to be super-clean.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Oh, here's the article I wanted:
Which Diet Works?
One of the challenges of arguing that hyperprocessed carbohydrates are largely responsible for the obesity pandemic (“epidemic” is no longer a strong enough word, say many experts) is the notion that “a calorie is a calorie.”
Accept that, and you buy into the contention that consuming 100 calories’ worth of sugar water (like Coke or Gatorade), white bread or French fries is the same as eating 100 calories of broccoli or beans. And Big Food — which has little interest in selling broccoli or beans — would have you believe that if you expend enough energy to work off those 100 calories, it simply doesn’t matter.
There’s an increasing body of evidence, however, that calories from highly processed carbohydrates like white flour (and of course sugar) provide calories that the body treats differently, spiking both blood sugar and insulin and causing us to retain fat instead of burning it off.
In other words, all calories are not alike.
Read more: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/which-diet-works/
well put. thank you. all calories are not alike.
How do you imagine this article is relevant to the OP?
I really am curious.
OP here and I am curious about this too, as this is not about a calorie is a calorie ...0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Ok - run an experiment on yourself. Eat in a caloric surplus of 500 calories of the "right" calories. Do this for three months and report back with the results. I 100% guarantee you will gain weight.
When I lived in the wilds of Costa Rica for two months and had no access to processed or otherwise junk foods, I lost 20 pounds effortlessly. I didn't log calories, but had three meals and one or two snacks per day and was never hungry. Food cravings were not really an issue, as pizza, ice cream, etc. simply were not available. I did eat a lot of mango, bananas, and pineapple. Supermarket bananas are like a completely different food from these bananas, which were like ambrosia from the gods.
(When I say "wilds," I mean that literally. We were in the last town before the jungle separating Costa Rica from Panana. Farmers delivered rice and beans to us on horseback. A veggie truck was scheduled to come twice a week, but sometimes the road was washed out and it couldn't make it, in which case we had more green papaya salad and otherwise foraged.)
So, yeah, I'm in the clean food camp. My challenge is doing it amidst a plethora of unhealthy choices, and while cooking for people who don't want to be super-clean.
What does this have to do with the quoted text?0 -
But you lost weight due to lack of availability to many foods and probably you were more active. So it wasn't the fact that your foods were more natural, but rather more limited and unavailable, so you were forced to eat lower calorie foods.kshama2001 wrote: »Ok - run an experiment on yourself. Eat in a caloric surplus of 500 calories of the "right" calories. Do this for three months and report back with the results. I 100% guarantee you will gain weight.
When I lived in the wilds of Costa Rica for two months and had no access to processed or otherwise junk foods, I lost 20 pounds effortlessly. I didn't log calories, but had three meals and one or two snacks per day and was never hungry. Food cravings were not really an issue, as pizza, ice cream, etc. simply were not available. I did eat a lot of mango, bananas, and pineapple. Supermarket bananas are like a completely different food from these bananas, which were like ambrosia from the gods.
(When I say "wilds," I mean that literally. We were in the last town before the jungle separating Costa Rica from Panana. Farmers delivered rice and beans to us on horseback. A veggie truck was scheduled to come twice a week, but sometimes the road was washed out and it couldn't make it, in which case we had more green papaya salad and otherwise foraged.)
So, yeah, I'm in the clean food camp. My challenge is doing it amidst a plethora of unhealthy choices, and while cooking for people who don't want to be super-clean.
This... mind boggling.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Ok - run an experiment on yourself. Eat in a caloric surplus of 500 calories of the "right" calories. Do this for three months and report back with the results. I 100% guarantee you will gain weight.
When I lived in the wilds of Costa Rica for two months and had no access to processed or otherwise junk foods, I lost 20 pounds effortlessly. I didn't log calories, but had three meals and one or two snacks per day and was never hungry. Food cravings were not really an issue, as pizza, ice cream, etc. simply were not available. I did eat a lot of mango, bananas, and pineapple. Supermarket bananas are like a completely different food from these bananas, which were like ambrosia from the gods.
(When I say "wilds," I mean that literally. We were in the last town before the jungle separating Costa Rica from Panana. Farmers delivered rice and beans to us on horseback. A veggie truck was scheduled to come twice a week, but sometimes the road was washed out and it couldn't make it, in which case we had more green papaya salad and otherwise foraged.)
So, yeah, I'm in the clean food camp. My challenge is doing it amidst a plethora of unhealthy choices, and while cooking for people who don't want to be super-clean.
I fail to see what this has to do with the experiment I posed to you....0 -
How do you imagine this article is relevant to the OP?
I really am curious.
The thread is titled "The Clean Eating Myth." The article's point is that losing weight from clean eating is not a myth.
Here's more:
...Almost every diet, from the radical no-carb-at-all notions to the tame (and sane) “Healthy Eating Plate” from Harvard, agrees on at least this notion: reduce, or even come close to eliminating, the amount of hyper-processed carbohydrates in your diet, because, quite simply, they’re bad for you. And if you look at statistics, at least a quarter of our calories come from added sugars (seven percent from beverages alone), white flour, white rice, white pasta … are you seeing a pattern here? (Oh, and white potatoes. And beer.)
So what’s Ludwig’s overall advice? “It’s time to reacquaint ourselves with minimally processed carbs. If you take three servings of refined carbohydrates and substitute one of fruit, one of beans and one of nuts, you could eliminate 50 percent of diet-related disease in the United States. These relatively modest changes can provide great benefit.”
The message is pretty simple: unprocessed foods give you a better chance of idealizing your weight — and your health. Because all calories are not created equal.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/which-diet-works/
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kshama2001 wrote: »Ok - run an experiment on yourself. Eat in a caloric surplus of 500 calories of the "right" calories. Do this for three months and report back with the results. I 100% guarantee you will gain weight.
When I lived in the wilds of Costa Rica for two months and had no access to processed or otherwise junk foods, I lost 20 pounds effortlessly. I didn't log calories, but had three meals and one or two snacks per day and was never hungry. Food cravings were not really an issue, as pizza, ice cream, etc. simply were not available. I did eat a lot of mango, bananas, and pineapple. Supermarket bananas are like a completely different food from these bananas, which were like ambrosia from the gods.
(When I say "wilds," I mean that literally. We were in the last town before the jungle separating Costa Rica from Panana. Farmers delivered rice and beans to us on horseback. A veggie truck was scheduled to come twice a week, but sometimes the road was washed out and it couldn't make it, in which case we had more green papaya salad and otherwise foraged.)
So, yeah, I'm in the clean food camp. My challenge is doing it amidst a plethora of unhealthy choices, and while cooking for people who don't want to be super-clean.
So your evidence is that when you lived in a 3rd world country, in a remote area, you lost weight? I mean I guess you have to be correct because even though you didn't have processed foods you must have had an incredibly abundant range of foods to eat all day. Because we know in those areas people have so much excess food around to eat. There were buffets of clean food everywhere right?
that sounds like a good business idea "Mr M's Clean Eating Buffet" ...in?0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »How do you imagine this article is relevant to the OP?
I really am curious.
The thread is titled "The Clean Eating Myth." The article's point is that losing weight from clean eating is not a myth.
Here's more:
...Almost every diet, from the radical no-carb-at-all notions to the tame (and sane) “Healthy Eating Plate” from Harvard, agrees on at least this notion: reduce, or even come close to eliminating, the amount of hyper-processed carbohydrates in your diet, because, quite simply, they’re bad for you. And if you look at statistics, at least a quarter of our calories come from added sugars (seven percent from beverages alone), white flour, white rice, white pasta … are you seeing a pattern here? (Oh, and white potatoes. And beer.)
So what’s Ludwig’s overall advice? “It’s time to reacquaint ourselves with minimally processed carbs. If you take three servings of refined carbohydrates and substitute one of fruit, one of beans and one of nuts, you could eliminate 50 percent of diet-related disease in the United States. These relatively modest changes can provide great benefit.”
The message is pretty simple: unprocessed foods give you a better chance of idealizing your weight — and your health. Because all calories are not created equal.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/which-diet-works/
The point. You miss it.
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kshama2001 wrote: »Ok - run an experiment on yourself. Eat in a caloric surplus of 500 calories of the "right" calories. Do this for three months and report back with the results. I 100% guarantee you will gain weight.
When I lived in the wilds of Costa Rica for two months and had no access to processed or otherwise junk foods, I lost 20 pounds effortlessly. I didn't log calories, but had three meals and one or two snacks per day and was never hungry. Food cravings were not really an issue, as pizza, ice cream, etc. simply were not available. I did eat a lot of mango, bananas, and pineapple. Supermarket bananas are like a completely different food from these bananas, which were like ambrosia from the gods.
(When I say "wilds," I mean that literally. We were in the last town before the jungle separating Costa Rica from Panana. Farmers delivered rice and beans to us on horseback. A veggie truck was scheduled to come twice a week, but sometimes the road was washed out and it couldn't make it, in which case we had more green papaya salad and otherwise foraged.)
So, yeah, I'm in the clean food camp. My challenge is doing it amidst a plethora of unhealthy choices, and while cooking for people who don't want to be super-clean.
So your evidence is that when you lived in a 3rd world country, in a remote area, you lost weight? I mean I guess you have to be correct because even though you didn't have processed foods you must have had an incredibly abundant range of foods to eat all day. Because we know in those areas people have so much excess food around to eat. There were buffets of clean food everywhere right?
I went to the Dominican Republic and gained weight eating all the clean foods, fresh seafood, fruits and veggies. It might have been the unlimited drinks at the All Inclusive resort though...
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kshama2001 wrote: »How do you imagine this article is relevant to the OP?
I really am curious.
The thread is titled "The Clean Eating Myth." The article's point is that losing weight from clean eating is not a myth.
Here's more:
...Almost every diet, from the radical no-carb-at-all notions to the tame (and sane) “Healthy Eating Plate” from Harvard, agrees on at least this notion: reduce, or even come close to eliminating, the amount of hyper-processed carbohydrates in your diet, because, quite simply, they’re bad for you. And if you look at statistics, at least a quarter of our calories come from added sugars (seven percent from beverages alone), white flour, white rice, white pasta … are you seeing a pattern here? (Oh, and white potatoes. And beer.)
So what’s Ludwig’s overall advice? “It’s time to reacquaint ourselves with minimally processed carbs. If you take three servings of refined carbohydrates and substitute one of fruit, one of beans and one of nuts, you could eliminate 50 percent of diet-related disease in the United States. These relatively modest changes can provide great benefit.”
The message is pretty simple: unprocessed foods give you a better chance of idealizing your weight — and your health. Because all calories are not created equal.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/which-diet-works/
you obviously did not read my OP.
I said that the clean eating person would lose as much weight as the person eating in moderation. I never said a clean eater would not lose weight.
oh geez Ludwig, here with go with the pseudoscience...
how do I eat processed foods and lose weight then? Am I some physiological outlier????0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »How do you imagine this article is relevant to the OP?
I really am curious.
The thread is titled "The Clean Eating Myth." The article's point is that losing weight from clean eating is not a myth.
Here's more:
...Almost every diet, from the radical no-carb-at-all notions to the tame (and sane) “Healthy Eating Plate” from Harvard, agrees on at least this notion: reduce, or even come close to eliminating, the amount of hyper-processed carbohydrates in your diet, because, quite simply, they’re bad for you. And if you look at statistics, at least a quarter of our calories come from added sugars (seven percent from beverages alone), white flour, white rice, white pasta … are you seeing a pattern here? (Oh, and white potatoes. And beer.)
So what’s Ludwig’s overall advice? “It’s time to reacquaint ourselves with minimally processed carbs. If you take three servings of refined carbohydrates and substitute one of fruit, one of beans and one of nuts, you could eliminate 50 percent of diet-related disease in the United States. These relatively modest changes can provide great benefit.”
The message is pretty simple: unprocessed foods give you a better chance of idealizing your weight — and your health. Because all calories are not created equal.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/which-diet-works/
That has nothing to do with the original post. No one said that you can't lose weight eating clean food. The question is whether or not eating a nutritionally equivalent diet (same calories, macro and micro nutrients) - one with all clean foods and one that includes processed foods, would result in one person losing weight at a faster rate.
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