Are there any other thin girls who have an insanely high BF%?
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who said anything about energy as an umbrella term? i'm talking about muscle protein synthesis, which does actually prefer protein to any other macro.
and i wouldn't know, i can't say i know much about the efficiency of different types of strength training. but i'd agree that exercise is more important than protein consumption, so long as you're getting a half decent amount of protein.
all the food i've ever eaten turns into fat? what? i think you're confused0 -
Alligator423 wrote: »Gah people are rude. Don't worry about everyone arguing with you about whether or not you truly have a high bf% or distorted body image. My advice is simple: you're at a healthy weight but don't like your body composition. Obvious answer is strength training while eating at maintenance, if not above if you find that you need it. You can stay the same weight (or even gain a bit) but you'll be building muscle and losing fat, changing your body comp. That'll move you towards the leaner physique and flatter stomach you desire.
No, she's underweight. Rude is in the perception.
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every opinion is subject to perception and, as such, is subjective. that's a useless statement, it's like pointing out that the sky is blue. as for your comment RE my weight, yes I am underweight, but i'm healthy, I eat 3 or 4 decent meals a day, and my weight is natural. not all underweight people are unhealthy. much less, i'm less than two BMI points underweight.
that aside, weight really isn't as big a deal RE BF% as you'd like to think it is, (obviously, once you enter the realm of overweight and beyond, the BMI BF% correlation spikes, but that bears no relevance to this thread or me). so don't act like my weight nulls the discussion where my high BF% is concerned - it categorically does not.0 -
How do you know with 100% certainty what your friends eat all day every day?0
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i don't, but like most things people say, it's an educated guess (or as i like to call, a statement).
how do you know with 100% certainty that the ground isn't going to fall from under your feet the next time you step onto the pavement? you don't - you go just kind of use your brain and assess the likelihood given your past experiences.
i'm not saying that my friends never eat any healthy foods, i'm just saying that by my observations and their own admissions (and these are people i spend a lot of time with), they have poor diets. same goes for the exercise habits (or lack thereof).
i understand where you're coming from though, i don't have their measurements and i haven't installed cameras in their kitchens, but the anecdotal evidence is pretty strong.
for reference, by the way, i've got a friend who doesn't exercise (though, neither do i, not until last week or so), and who eats at least two takeaways a week. she binge drinks regularly. she's about a stone heavier than me, is the same height, and has borrowed my clothes a million times. they fit perfectly, she's the same clothes size as me. even jeans. that's because she has a much leaner body composition, a much lower body fat percentage.0 -
@MrM27 if you read the thread, i was refuting something someone else said using studies that i'd researched. big difference between that and offering non-existant expertise and assuming i know everything.
your comment is ridiculous. i suppose you make no comment on what politicians do, because you're not entitled to an opinion, right? you're not a politician? your logic is SERIOUSLY flawed. just because i'm not a bodybuilder doesn't mean i haven't researched nutrition :S do you really apply that principle to everything? or are you just cherrypicking your rules of dialogue? no-one can talk about anything unless they're completely omniscient? you must be a hoot to talk to. i'd understand your argument if i was arguing with a certified expert, then i'd be way out of my depth, but criticising people for chiming in on something, really? wow0 -
yeah, it's to do with muscle protein synthesis (the process that maintains your muscle mass). when you're not eating enough protein, the process is much less efficient and results in muscle wasting.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/462651-will-you-lose-muscle-if-you-dont-eat-enough-protein-lift-weights/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24477298
the former (or at least, the introductory part of the former) explains the effect of muscle protein synthesis on muscle mass, the latter explains the link between the consumption (or lack thereof) of protein on muscle protein synthesis.
P.S. sorry, i know livestrong isn't really a reputable source, but it does have some nice references.
The Livestrong reference talks about 0.8g protein/1 kg body weight, which I'm fairly certain is wrong and would put protein intake at less than 100g per day for most people, which is hardly a difficult number to hit. The second article talks about protein consumption in terms of timing, not amount.
The reason I referenced bulking was to state that increased carb consumption does not negatively impact muscle mass, and in fact is necessary for gaining muscle mass. I'm honestly not sure at this point what you are hoping to get out of this thread. If you were indeed well below your necessary protein intake, you would be experiencing a host of health issues beyond just feeling like you have a higher than normal body fat percentage, in which case you need to consult a physician, not a message board.0 -
Have you ever had a bone density test? Might want to look into that.0
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i don't, but like most things people say, it's an educated guess (or as i like to call, a statement).
how do you know with 100% certainty that the ground isn't going to fall from under your feet the next time you step onto the pavement? you don't - you go just kind of use your brain and assess the likelihood given your past experiences.
i'm not saying that my friends never eat any healthy foods, i'm just saying that by my observations and their own admissions (and these are people i spend a lot of time with), they have poor diets. same goes for the exercise habits (or lack thereof).
i understand where you're coming from though, i don't have their measurements and i haven't installed cameras in their kitchens, but the anecdotal evidence is pretty strong.
for reference, by the way, i've got a friend who doesn't exercise (though, neither do i, not until last week or so), and who eats at least two takeaways a week. she binge drinks regularly. she's about a stone heavier than me, is the same height, and has borrowed my clothes a million times. they fit perfectly, she's the same clothes size as me. even jeans. that's because she has a much leaner body composition, a much lower body fat percentage.
Maybe they have a higher BMR than you? Either way, it's all moot. I know it can seem frustrating, but there are a lot of people here who are trying to teach you about this subject. Take it or leave it.0 -
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@MrM27 if you read the thread, i was refuting something someone else said using studies that i'd researched. big difference between that and offering non-existant expertise and assuming i know everything.
your comment is ridiculous. i suppose you make no comment on what politicians do, because you're not entitled to an opinion, right? you're not a politician? your logic is SERIOUSLY flawed. just because i'm not a bodybuilder doesn't mean i haven't researched nutrition :S do you really apply that principle to everything? or are you just cherrypicking your rules of dialogue? no-one can talk about anything unless they're completely omniscient? you must be a hoot to talk to. i'd understand your argument if i was arguing with a certified expert, then i'd be way out of my depth, but criticising people for chiming in on something, really? wow
Don't worry, I am reading the 5 pages, I'm sure there are some interesting posts.
Researching is great but in this game there are a lot of things that you learn through application.
yeah, application and first hand experience is invaluable. i just don't like the idea that anything should be "untouchable" in terms of criticism - i like to think anything and everything can be analysed and criticised, though that's not to say the critic can't be wrong0 -
FoxyLifter wrote: »i don't, but like most things people say, it's an educated guess (or as i like to call, a statement).
how do you know with 100% certainty that the ground isn't going to fall from under your feet the next time you step onto the pavement? you don't - you go just kind of use your brain and assess the likelihood given your past experiences.
i'm not saying that my friends never eat any healthy foods, i'm just saying that by my observations and their own admissions (and these are people i spend a lot of time with), they have poor diets. same goes for the exercise habits (or lack thereof).
i understand where you're coming from though, i don't have their measurements and i haven't installed cameras in their kitchens, but the anecdotal evidence is pretty strong.
for reference, by the way, i've got a friend who doesn't exercise (though, neither do i, not until last week or so), and who eats at least two takeaways a week. she binge drinks regularly. she's about a stone heavier than me, is the same height, and has borrowed my clothes a million times. they fit perfectly, she's the same clothes size as me. even jeans. that's because she has a much leaner body composition, a much lower body fat percentage.
Maybe they have a higher BMR than you? Either way, it's all moot. I know it can seem frustrating, but there are a lot of people here who are trying to teach you about this subject. Take it or leave it.
maybe, but i'm not sure there's much correlation between BMR and BF%, besides the fact that a lower BMR might lead to a higher body weight, and past a certain BMI there is a spike in correlation between BMR and BF%
why can't i absorb information without criticising it? isn't that how you learn? if you find a hole in an argument you ask the person you're arguing with to elaborate. you musn't be very fun in a debate. that's how people learn, and i'm open to learning things. i'm no expert. why, though, am i exclusively the student? is it your firm belief that everything i've said thus far is wrong and that everyone who has commented knows more than me and is immune to learning, too? strange. you don't sound like you're trying to be informative, you sound defensive.0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »Have you ever had a bone density test? Might want to look into that.
no i haven't, i'm not sure what one is actually. i think i have a pretty small frame / bone structure, if that has anything to do with it, i have very small wrists and ankles0 -
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yeah, it's to do with muscle protein synthesis (the process that maintains your muscle mass). when you're not eating enough protein, the process is much less efficient and results in muscle wasting.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/462651-will-you-lose-muscle-if-you-dont-eat-enough-protein-lift-weights/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24477298
the former (or at least, the introductory part of the former) explains the effect of muscle protein synthesis on muscle mass, the latter explains the link between the consumption (or lack thereof) of protein on muscle protein synthesis.
P.S. sorry, i know livestrong isn't really a reputable source, but it does have some nice references.
The Livestrong reference talks about 0.8g protein/1 kg body weight, which I'm fairly certain is wrong and would put protein intake at less than 100g per day for most people, which is hardly a difficult number to hit. The second article talks about protein consumption in terms of timing, not amount.
The reason I referenced bulking was to state that increased carb consumption does not negatively impact muscle mass, and in fact is necessary for gaining muscle mass. I'm honestly not sure at this point what you are hoping to get out of this thread. If you were indeed well below your necessary protein intake, you would be experiencing a host of health issues beyond just feeling like you have a higher than normal body fat percentage, in which case you need to consult a physician, not a message board.
i agree that carb consumption is necessary for gaining muscle mass, what with it being the body's preferred source of energy and the like - without it i imagine the body would dip into muscle stores after it exhausted the fat. that being said, the innuit diet is almost exclusively protein and fat, if i'm not mistaken, and i'm sure there are innuit peoples who have amassed a decent amount of muscle (that last comment is purely speculation, but i'm sure they're not all skinny fat, or just fat). i didn't really say that increased carb consumption negative impacts muscle mass, i said that an excessive carb consumption would, while someone was maintaining, because an excessive carb intake while maintaining would be to the detriment of protein consumption, which would in turn deplete muscle stores. the second article was a poor example, don't know why i so hurriedly linked it when i was trying to demonstrate that the amount of protein impacts the efficiency of protein synthesis, nobody had actually refuted that in the first place and it's pretty common knowledge. sloppy linking.
at this point i'm just interested in what people have to say, though it's gone way beyond what i was originally talking about. i'm not below my necessary protein intake, but i should eat more of it for obvious reasons (really high BF% relative to my BMI) - my argument has never been that, it's been that i have a high BF because i have a poor diet and don't exercise enough, and because i'm naturally predisposed to have one. i'll reiterate because this is something people have (not directed at you) repeatedly picked up on - i'm not saying that by merely referencing that genes have a role to play here, that they're more important than diet and exercise. i'm just saying they have a role to play, as they do in pretty much everything, and i'm suggesting that mine are poor (though, as previously stated by someone else, i ought to be grateful that i'm naturally slim, so i'm not trying to be ungrateful)0 -
In my younger days....much, much younger in my 20s...I was similar, 5'4" and 110 lbs and had my body fat measured by some machine...24%, which was considered high because of my size. So yes, it is possible! I did Iive off donuts and junk food and had all my co-workers tell me "just you wait..."0
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lemonsnowdrop wrote: »OP, what you eat doesn't determine your BF% as long as you eat enough protein. Define "eat like ***."
Simple carbs/ starchy *kitten*/ sugary *kitten* will increase your BF%. You're wrong. There's a reason body builders drastically reduce their carbohydrate intake when they're cutting.
There's a reason why bodybuilders reduce their carbs, because there is no other macronutrient since protein and fat are constant and have minimums.stevencloser wrote: »lemonsnowdrop wrote: »OP, what you eat doesn't determine your BF% as long as you eat enough protein. Define "eat like ***."
Simple carbs/ starchy *kitten*/ sugary *kitten* will increase your BF%. You're wrong. There's a reason body builders drastically reduce their carbohydrate intake when they're cutting.
It won't if you're not eating at a surplus.
yeah, it will. if you're not eating the right amount of protein to sustain your muscle mass then you'll lose it. and if you're only eating within your maintenance and you're eating too many carbs, then you can't possibly get enough protein. that, and many other factors. isn't this like a universally accepted given? an excess of carbs is like exactly what you need to avoid to get lean
What defines excess?
what do you mean by constant and have minimums? not being pedantic, just genuinely can't wrap my head around the wording
excess is obviously not an objective measurement, but i'd probably put it at anything that's detrimental to the percentage of protein needed to maintain muscle mass, especially for reparative purposes after strength training - especially true of a body builder who has a greater amount of muscle to maintain than most people, both in terms of volume and relative to his weight.0 -
In my younger days....much, much younger in my 20s...I was similar, 5'4" and 110 lbs and had my body fat measured by some machine...24%, which was considered high because of my size. So yes, it is possible! I did Iive off donuts and junk food and had all my co-workers tell me "just you wait..."
yeah, i think i'm in the same boat as you were! trying to nip it in the bud now. i'll have to get a proper measurement at some point because i think it'd be interesting to know. people can't seem to grasp the idea that while 24% is healthy for a woman, the significance of the number is relative to the individuals weight - i.e. you'd expect a slim person to have a much lower body fat percentage. thanks for commenting, i feel less alone!0 -
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Wow, this thread has gone off the rails, hasn't it?
You're not alone, OP. I'm similar to you. Even when I was your age or younger and was at a very healthy weight according to BMI charts, I never had that toned body that I coveted. I was always kind of soft and jiggly and flabby.
I'm more comfortable with it at 35 than I was at 20. Maybe 'cause nobody really expects me to look like a 20-year-old anymore? I don't mind being soft, round and curvy as long as I'm also healthy and able to do the things I want to do.
One consideration: Do you by any chance have very pale skin, OP? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make any assumptions about your ethnic background or anything. It's just that I'm a pale freckled redhead (seriously, I'm so white I literally glow in the dark), and I've found that I always look bigger than my more tanned friends even for similar body types. Trick of the eye, perhaps -- lighter colours tend to look bigger. Spray or bottle tan might be your best friend on beach days.0 -
more_productive wrote: »Someone could be 60lbs and still have an abnormally high bfp if they were 40% fat
Wait, what?
I must be missing something, because that's not biologically possible unless they're about 3 foot tall.0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »Have you ever had a bone density test? Might want to look into that.
no i haven't, i'm not sure what one is actually. i think i have a pretty small frame / bone structure, if that has anything to do with it, i have very small wrists and ankles
It looks for low bone density (sign of impending osteoporosis). Low body weight, despite being "flabby" may not necessarily mean you lack muscle - it could be that you suffer from low bone density. You are female, you binge drink, and you don't get adequate protein (and possibly calcium - you said you eat "like *kitten*", but have left that unsdefined). All of that could mean your bones are lighter (less dense) than they ought to be for your age. Go to your GP. Ask for a bone density test. Also ask about a bf% estimate. Knowledge is power. Right now you are speculating. If you genuinely think that you are that much worse off than your peers with similar habits, it's worth trying to ferret out what's going on.
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0.7g per lb of body weight to 1g per lb of body weight equals between 77g and 110g of protein per day for a total of less than 440 Calories.
0.4g of fat per lb of body weight means 44g of fat, or 396 Calories.
The two together add up to 836 Calories a day.
Even assuming 20% metabolic adaptation, sedentary lifestyle, no exercise, and 1g of protein per lb of body weight (as opposed to lb of lean body mass), I still did not manage to raise your protein requirement above 36%, and that was on a measly 1200Cal budget.
Assuming no kidney issues, how exactly is this protein goal difficult to meet in the context of a TDEE level caloric budget?
OP: are you sure that hanging around weight loss boards is the best thing for you?0 -
Wow, this thread has gone off the rails, hasn't it?
You're not alone, OP. I'm similar to you. Even when I was your age or younger and was at a very healthy weight according to BMI charts, I never had that toned body that I coveted. I was always kind of soft and jiggly and flabby.
I'm more comfortable with it at 35 than I was at 20. Maybe 'cause nobody really expects me to look like a 20-year-old anymore? I don't mind being soft, round and curvy as long as I'm also healthy and able to do the things I want to do.
One consideration: Do you by any chance have very pale skin, OP? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make any assumptions about your ethnic background or anything. It's just that I'm a pale freckled redhead (seriously, I'm so white I literally glow in the dark), and I've found that I always look bigger than my more tanned friends even for similar body types. Trick of the eye, perhaps -- lighter colours tend to look bigger. Spray or bottle tan might be your best friend on beach days.
ah thanks for commenting, every time someone tells me they are (or were) in a similar situation i feel a bit less of a freak (and a lot more sane). thankfully i don't spend too much time thinking about it, but it couldn't do much harm for me to try and build some muscle mass and see if that helps. you're right though, health and capability are far more important. i don't have pale skin, but lucky you, pale redheads are beautiful :-)0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »Have you ever had a bone density test? Might want to look into that.
no i haven't, i'm not sure what one is actually. i think i have a pretty small frame / bone structure, if that has anything to do with it, i have very small wrists and ankles
It looks for low bone density (sign of impending osteoporosis). Low body weight, despite being "flabby" may not necessarily mean you lack muscle - it could be that you suffer from low bone density. You are female, you binge drink, and you don't get adequate protein (and possibly calcium - you said you eat "like *kitten*", but have left that unsdefined). All of that could mean your bones are lighter (less dense) than they ought to be for your age. Go to your GP. Ask for a bone density test. Also ask about a bf% estimate. Knowledge is power. Right now you are speculating. If you genuinely think that you are that much worse off than your peers with similar habits, it's worth trying to ferret out what's going on.
yeah that might be worth looking into, i've got an appointment in a fortnight actually so it couldn't hurt to mention it. i don't know if they do BF estimates for free though, but again, couldn't hurt to ask. i do drink a fair bit of milk, but it's semi-skimmed and probably not enough to offset my other dietary shortcomings0 -
0.7g per lb of body weight to 1g per lb of body weight equals between 77g and 110g of protein per day for a total of less than 440 Calories.
0.4g of fat per lb of body weight means 44g of fat, or 396 Calories.
The two together add up to 836 Calories a day.
Even assuming 20% metabolic adaptation, sedentary lifestyle, no exercise, and 1g of protein per lb of body weight (as opposed to lb of lean body mass), I still did not manage to raise your protein requirement above 36%, and that was on a measly 1200Cal budget.
Assuming no kidney issues, how exactly is this protein goal difficult to meet in the context of a TDEE level caloric budget?
OP: are you sure that hanging around weight loss boards is the best thing for you?
sorry, are you addressing me or someone else on the thread? confused. if you are, then i don't know whether i meet my protein requirements, i don't think i've commented on my protein consumption here? aside to say that for someone who wants to build muscle, i could probably use more. also i eat a lot more than 1200 haha
and why wouldn't they be? regardless, i'm not looking to lose weight and i've never said i am. i'm maintaining/ gaining, whichever proves necessary (ultimately, trying to lower my BF%)0 -
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