How I feel about some of these forums
Replies
-
baby05phat wrote: »I'm especially talking about the "clean eating" hate going on. People instantly get attacked for suggesting they are going to restrict certain foods, eat raw or just eat unprocessed/nutritious foods only. Some people have to do this or the other food triggers a massive binge from those with binge eating disorder, etc.
I'm just saying we are all different, can we be a little more open minded to different things. Obviously unhealthy diets and things that will harm you can be commented upon but then again even fasting for short periods of time is healthy for some people and some doctors even recommend intense diets for people who's situation is life/death.
This^^^^ I have to eat clean or I don't lose weight, but I have seen many people get bashed for the mere suggestion.
I doubt this, but I think it's quite possible that you will find it easy and more enjoyable to lose by focusing on eating a nutritious, balanced diet or by avoiding trigger foods.
What most of us take issue with is the term "clean" which means nothing consistent and just sounds like an insult or a way of saying that your diet is "purer" than ours. If you said you feel better mostly cooking from whole foods or cutting out grains or whatever it is you do mean, that would probably go over better.I wish I could eat cheeseburgers and fries everyday and have icecream for dessert as long as I'm in a deficit. But this does not work for me.
Not "clean eating" doesn't mean eating high calorie foods constantly, let alone only, as is so often claimed. That's actually what usually starts the arguing. It's kind of offensive and just not true to claim that because someone has different ideas about what makes for a good diet or a nutritious, balanced diet specifically than you do--and I have no idea what you even think, because "clean" means nothing--that means he or she cares nothing about nutrition or eats donuts or McD's or even homemade cheeseburgers and fries all day, everyday.
I may well eat a pretty similar diet to yours, who knows. I also like having some ice cream when I have the calories. Maybe you prefer to spend your extra calories in some other way or have fewer calories than I do, who knows. But it's simply not true that choosing to eat ice cream means you aren't interested in nutrition, etc. There's this weird all or nothing attitude some seem to have, as if "eating what you want in moderation" means eating mostly low nutrient "junk" foods.0 -
Just thinking that....posting for an agenda.
0 -
baby05phat wrote: »But even if it doesn't trigger a binge and I eat tims in combination and have a healthy day. I always wake up wanting tims the next day and the next and the next. Most likely why there are addictions to fast food, I suspect they put chemicals in there that bring us right back which was shown in lab rats as well. Lab rats picked the fast food everytime or stayed starving until they got itlemurcat12 wrote: »baby05phat wrote: »I have binge eating disorder and I managed to eat strictly organic/healthy foods and never binge for a year and then I went to tim hortons followed by mcdonalds on someones birthday and binged nonstop, anytime I eat those foods the binging is triggered.
Maybe moderation only works for some people and not for others at all
If you have BED that's a mental issue and you should be treated for it. You should figure out what works for you, but from what I've seen it's not uncommon for restrictiveness and ideas about certain foods being bad to be an aggravating factor. If you tell yourself you can't control yourself if you eat something or that you've spoiled everything if you do, of course there's a tendency to go nuts when you finally eat it.
Better to be able to moderate.
I'm not telling you to eat Tim Hortons or McD's, as I don't care. I never go to either place because I don't care for them, but I also don't tell myself that certain foods are "bad" or "unclean" or that they have control over me. I do try to eat a nutritious and delicious diet as that furthers my goals and makes me happy.
plenty of us can fit fast food (or any other food) into our diets as often as we like and still get the results we want. so if fast food causes you to stumble then you can only blame yourself.0 -
baby05phat wrote: »Exactly, therefore helping remove toxins = weight loss, but eating junk food can cause other types of toxic reactions. They are still studying cancer and its link to junk food/gmo, nothing is a fine line or easy straight answerTimothyFish wrote: »baby05phat wrote: »Is there seriously no way to get rid of toxins? Then why does bloodwork look so much better after the person has lost weight and become healthier? A toxin is anything that damages the body.
Plus are all of you doctors? Lol ...even science and doctors only know so much about the human body. We are unsure of so many things and still researching for example we are still unsure of gmo's and what they can do to us in the future, we have a growing obesity epidemic so I just thought this place would be friendlier
Your body naturally removes toxins. The reason bloodwork looks better after a person has lost weight is because they've reduced the size of the body that the internal organs have to remove toxins from. Same thing with blood pressure. If the is less places that have to have food an oxygen, the heart doesn't have to work as hard getting blood to those places.
There is nothing that helps you remove any toxins any faster than what your kidneys and liver do. All detoxes I know of only do one thing, make you *kitten* your guts out.
Also you switched cause and effect there.0 -
This content has been removed.
-
There is some actual rudeness that goes above and beyond what should be acceptable here. Report it (use the actual report function not the flags) and let the mods deal with it. There are also some people on the boards who are overly sensitive and are going to have a harder time hearing responses who may escalate posts quickly. In truth, most of the posters on this board fall somewhere in between. They try to be helpful but they may have a bad day here and there or post something that comes across as blunter or snarkier than they intended.
It's been my experience that every helpful poster on these forums, every single one, will be called rude, mean, negative, troll, bully, etc. at some point or another no matter how carefully they phrase their advice. The weekly, and now almost daily, threads denigrating and name-calling the posters on these boards because they aren't nice enough create a far more negative atmosphere, imo, than those posters who are using a tone that you may not like or agree with.0 -
baby05phat wrote: »But even if it doesn't trigger a binge and I eat tims in combination and have a healthy day. I always wake up wanting tims the next day and the next and the next. Most likely why there are addictions to fast food, I suspect they put chemicals in there that bring us right back which was shown in lab rats as well. Lab rats picked the fast food everytime or stayed starving until they got itlemurcat12 wrote: »baby05phat wrote: »I have binge eating disorder and I managed to eat strictly organic/healthy foods and never binge for a year and then I went to tim hortons followed by mcdonalds on someones birthday and binged nonstop, anytime I eat those foods the binging is triggered.
Maybe moderation only works for some people and not for others at all
If you have BED that's a mental issue and you should be treated for it. You should figure out what works for you, but from what I've seen it's not uncommon for restrictiveness and ideas about certain foods being bad to be an aggravating factor. If you tell yourself you can't control yourself if you eat something or that you've spoiled everything if you do, of course there's a tendency to go nuts when you finally eat it.
Better to be able to moderate.
I'm not telling you to eat Tim Hortons or McD's, as I don't care. I never go to either place because I don't care for them, but I also don't tell myself that certain foods are "bad" or "unclean" or that they have control over me. I do try to eat a nutritious and delicious diet as that furthers my goals and makes me happy.
Can you link us to that fast food rat study? I am very interested in reading it. I have never known an animal to behave in this manner (house cats aside).0 -
Too much of anything can be a toxin. Water can be a toxin if you drink too much. Also, your body's natural processes continually produce wastes and toxins so there really is no way to cleanse your body completely of toxins. Fortunately, your kidneys, liver and lymph nodes do a fine job filtering out the toxins in your body all on their own.baby05phat wrote: »Is there seriously no way to get rid of toxins? Then why does bloodwork look so much better after the person has lost weight and become healthier? A toxin is anything that damages the body.
Sure, we don't know everything but that's no reason to throw up our hands and ignore what we do know. In general, science isn't constantly replacing one set of beliefs with a new set every time a new study comes out. Scientific knowledge builds on previous knowledge. We don't throw out everything and start over. We refine the theories we already have.Plus are all of you doctors? Lol ...even science and doctors only know so much about the human body. We are unsure of so many things and still researching for example we are still unsure of gmo's and what they can do to us in the future, we have a growing obesity epidemic so I just thought this place would be friendlier
For example, current dietary theory states that consuming carbohydrates provides energy and tends to raise blood sugar levels. It is highly unlikely that this theory will be abandoned, however we may find that the specific amount of calories may be slightly changed based on some other factor, perhaps the other foods consumed at the same time, or the time of day, or the person's age or whatever. Similarly, new discovers may find that the magnitude of the rise in blood sugar levels is dependent on various other factors. The key point is that the original theory isn't simply discarded once new information is available.
So having said that, when someone posts an article here on, say, plant based saturated fat having a reduced role in coronary artery disease vs. animal based saturated fat, the topic will likely receive a good welcome and provoke a lot of lively discussion, especially if the data is from a peer reviewed journal. OTOH, if someone posts a link to a person's blog claiming GMO's cause cancer because this guy's uncle once ate an ear of GMO corn and then died four months later from liver cancer - well, that's not going to go over so well.0 -
strong_curves wrote: »I think the clean eating issue is "clean eaters" tend to claim that it's the only way to lose weight and it isn't. I know plenty of "dirty eaters" (myself included) who have never had a serious weight problem!
My problem with "clean eating" is that, somewhat, but it's even more the following:
(1) It's not a clear term and means nothing and most "clean" eaters pat themselves on the back for their special diets while eating basically like the rest of us. It's just quite often they've recently converted from really unhealthy diets and assume most everyone else eats like they used to--they imagine eating what you want in moderation means McD only or some such.
(2) In that it doesn't really mean anything, I think it's chosen specifically to be insulting--to call what others are eating "unclean." I think that's rude.0 -
I thought clean eating was just no take-out or junk food at all.If you want people to stop complaining about "clean eating," post a definition of "clean eating" that EVERYONE who claims to follow it agrees with and lives by. Until you can do that, you see exactly the reason people complain about the phrase being thrown around as a WOE instead of as a meaningless ephemeral idea.
0 -
peter56765 wrote: »OTOH, if someone posts a link to a person's blog claiming GMO's cause cancer because this guy's uncle once ate an ear of GMO corn and then died four months later from liver cancer - well, that's not going to go over so well.
lol UNCLE JOHNNY NOOOO GMOOOOO
0 -
baby05phat wrote: »I thought clean eating was just no take-out or junk food at all.If you want people to stop complaining about "clean eating," post a definition of "clean eating" that EVERYONE who claims to follow it agrees with and lives by. Until you can do that, you see exactly the reason people complain about the phrase being thrown around as a WOE instead of as a meaningless ephemeral idea.
But then you started talking about GMOs and Monsanto. Clean eating seems to be one of those terms that is quite specific to the individual.0 -
And because it's proven useful in the past, I'll throw up my list of clean eating definitions. These have all been off-the-cuff answers given to the question of what clean eating really is. I've cleaned a few of them up for punctuation/spelling, but may of them are directly copy/pasted from their original posts.
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Anything that doesn't cause your body bloat or inflammation.
And I'll note that by some of those definitions, Fritos are a clean food.0 -
baby05phat wrote: »Exactly, therefore helping remove toxins = weight loss, but eating junk food can cause other types of toxic reactions. They are still studying cancer and its link to junk food/gmo, nothing is a fine line or easy straight answerTimothyFish wrote: »baby05phat wrote: »Is there seriously no way to get rid of toxins? Then why does bloodwork look so much better after the person has lost weight and become healthier? A toxin is anything that damages the body.
Plus are all of you doctors? Lol ...even science and doctors only know so much about the human body. We are unsure of so many things and still researching for example we are still unsure of gmo's and what they can do to us in the future, we have a growing obesity epidemic so I just thought this place would be friendlier
Your body naturally removes toxins. The reason bloodwork looks better after a person has lost weight is because they've reduced the size of the body that the internal organs have to remove toxins from. Same thing with blood pressure. If the is less places that have to have food an oxygen, the heart doesn't have to work as hard getting blood to those places.
Might as well start. This is going to end in gifs before it's locked.
0 -
baby05phat wrote: »But even if it doesn't trigger a binge and I eat tims in combination and have a healthy day. I always wake up wanting tims the next day and the next and the next. Most likely why there are addictions to fast food, I suspect they put chemicals in there that bring us right back which was shown in lab rats as well. Lab rats picked the fast food everytime or stayed starving until they got itlemurcat12 wrote: »baby05phat wrote: »I have binge eating disorder and I managed to eat strictly organic/healthy foods and never binge for a year and then I went to tim hortons followed by mcdonalds on someones birthday and binged nonstop, anytime I eat those foods the binging is triggered.
Maybe moderation only works for some people and not for others at all
If you have BED that's a mental issue and you should be treated for it. You should figure out what works for you, but from what I've seen it's not uncommon for restrictiveness and ideas about certain foods being bad to be an aggravating factor. If you tell yourself you can't control yourself if you eat something or that you've spoiled everything if you do, of course there's a tendency to go nuts when you finally eat it.
Better to be able to moderate.
I'm not telling you to eat Tim Hortons or McD's, as I don't care. I never go to either place because I don't care for them, but I also don't tell myself that certain foods are "bad" or "unclean" or that they have control over me. I do try to eat a nutritious and delicious diet as that furthers my goals and makes me happy.
Can you please link the study that show that rats will starve themselves if they don't get fast food. I have read lots and lots of studies, but have never seen this study and am interested in it.0 -
OP, first you complain about meanies, then consistently pick fights with everyone here. If McDonald's and Tim Hortons set off binges, DON'T go there. As for "GMOs", good grief, if it weren't for a monk in Europe fiddling around with peas a few hundred years ago, we would probable have no vegetables worth a darn.0
-
baby05phat wrote: »But even if it doesn't trigger a binge and I eat tims in combination and have a healthy day. I always wake up wanting tims the next day and the next and the next.
If it doesn't work for you, don't eat it. Like I said, I don't care, I never eat it myself. I just think your desire for it is probably more related to restricting than the food.Most likely why there are addictions to fast food
Bunk.
For some people's palates it seems to be highly palatable, probably the combination of fat and salt (or sugar and fat for Tim Horton's). I doubt it's more so than really delicious and well-cooked food from other sources--I know I'm more likely to crave other types of food--but it's cheap and easily available by comparison. I bet it would be a lot less so if you didn't make it forbidden fruit that's always extra appealing, but like I said no one cares if you eat it or not. I don't eat it and no one has said a mean word to me about it, perhaps because I don't preach about how others should eat.lemurcat12 wrote: »baby05phat wrote: »I have binge eating disorder and I managed to eat strictly organic/healthy foods and never binge for a year and then I went to tim hortons followed by mcdonalds on someones birthday and binged nonstop, anytime I eat those foods the binging is triggered.
Maybe moderation only works for some people and not for others at all
If you have BED that's a mental issue and you should be treated for it. You should figure out what works for you, but from what I've seen it's not uncommon for restrictiveness and ideas about certain foods being bad to be an aggravating factor. If you tell yourself you can't control yourself if you eat something or that you've spoiled everything if you do, of course there's a tendency to go nuts when you finally eat it.
Better to be able to moderate.
I'm not telling you to eat Tim Hortons or McD's, as I don't care. I never go to either place because I don't care for them, but I also don't tell myself that certain foods are "bad" or "unclean" or that they have control over me. I do try to eat a nutritious and delicious diet as that furthers my goals and makes me happy.
[/quote]
0 -
I found this thread to be both helpful & nice from some people and I enjoyed reading their responses/learning more and from others I felt like they're saying I'm an idiot for any beliefs I have outside of their own. So it's hard and I'm torn but I'm going to stay here to keep learning from the awesome people0
-
baby05phat wrote: »That's great and I don't put you down for it and tell you to stop dirty eating. Thats what works for you, all I'm asking is some people respect what works for other people may be different than youstrong_curves wrote: »I think the clean eating issue is "clean eaters" tend to claim that it's the only way to lose weight and it isn't. I know plenty of "dirty eaters" (myself included) who have never had a serious weight problem!
What works is one thing. Bad science is another. Don't make a scientific claim that's not supported.
0 -
baby05phat wrote: »I thought clean eating was just no take-out or junk food at all.
I usually have a massive garden salad, 1/2 an avocado, and some kind of protein and some kind of fruit for my lunch...didn't have time to get stuff together for today's lunch so I tossed my avocado into my lunch bag along with some cherries for desert and went and bought a full Asian Cashew Chicken salad from Wendy's. Is my lunch dirty since I didn't make the salad at home?
0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »And because it's proven useful in the past, I'll throw up my list of clean eating definitions. These have all been off-the-cuff answers given to the question of what clean eating really is. I've cleaned a few of them up for punctuation/spelling, but may of them are directly copy/pasted from their original posts.
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Anything that doesn't cause your body bloat or inflammation.
And I'll note that by some of those definitions, Fritos are a clean food.
By some of those definitions eggs, potatoes, kale and oranges are unclean.0 -
Main problems with this forum:
1. People constantly demanding peer reviewed studies when someone posts a personal experience. We all know so-called scientific research can be biased, paid-for, factually incorrect or disproven by a better science next year. If all you want to do is read studies then why come to a board like this at all?
2. Endless squabbling about definitions: addiction and clean eating being two obvious contenders.
3. Close-minded, point-scoring debate as opposed to real productive dialogue. I'd like to listen to someone else's viewpoint and share mine and hopefully both of us would emerge with a greater understanding.
4. And yeah, unnecessary rudeness. If people are saying they're tired of answering the same questions over and over then... don't answer them! How often do you see a thread where the OP's question is answered correctly with the first reply, and it's then followed by twenty other replies in tones of increasing snarkiness, telling him/her the exact same information.0 -
I feel like I've been here before.0
-
It was a study brought to people's attention on the news
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rats-starve-rather-than-eat-healthy-food/0 -
strong_curves wrote: »I wouldn't say they're putting them down per se... I see it more as educating them on how weight loss works. It's good that there's rebuttals to things like the "military diet", letting people know you don't have to drastic extreme things in order to lose weight. You can lose weight in a healthy, sustainable way instead of starving yourself.
I agree that it isn't so much that people are being put down...but I do think a lot of times when people are "educating" others they do it in extremely rude and negative ways. It's not very motivating.
Obviously the majority of the forum is very helpful but with any popular post its only a matter of time before it turns sour.0 -
In the experiment, one group of rats was given healthy, nutritionally balanced food. A different group was given "unlimited access to the worst stuff Johnson could find at [the supermarket] Publix, including bacon, sausage, cheesecake, pound cake, Ding Dongs and frosting," reports the Sun-Sentinel.
The junk food group gained weight and became less active. "More surprisingly, the fat rats exhibited the sort of self-destructive behavior associated with human junkies. The rats would eat junk food even if they knew doing so would result in a mild but distinctly uncomfortable electrical shock to their feet," reports the Sun-Sentinel.
The scientists then replaced the unhealthy food with the healthy diet of the first gtoup of rats, and the fat rats refused to eat at all0 -
baby05phat wrote: »I found this thread to be both helpful & nice from some people and I enjoyed reading their responses/learning more and from others I felt like they're saying I'm an idiot for any beliefs I have outside of their own. So it's hard and I'm torn but I'm going to stay here to keep learning from the awesome people
Well, here's the thing. You seem to have a disconnect.
You state your beliefs as facts.
People debate facts that aren't true.
That's not attacking your beliefs. That's correcting misinformation.
0 -
the internet is a terrible place to go for motivation.
sacking up is better than being patted on the back, anyway.0 -
baby05phat wrote: »It was a study brought to people's attention on the news
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rats-starve-rather-than-eat-healthy-food/
Even going to the original source of the story there is no study linked. Those are both just news articles. We are wanting the actual study.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »And because it's proven useful in the past, I'll throw up my list of clean eating definitions. These have all been off-the-cuff answers given to the question of what clean eating really is. I've cleaned a few of them up for punctuation/spelling, but may of them are directly copy/pasted from their original posts.
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Anything that doesn't cause your body bloat or inflammation.
And I'll note that by some of those definitions, Fritos are a clean food.
And by others eggs (including the ones I get from a farm), Fage plain greek yogurt, frozen veggies, a meal prepared by Alice Waters, a homemade roasted potato, skinless, boneless chicken breast, smoked salmon, tinned sardines, frozen fish, any meat purchased from a store or even a farm (in my state, anyway), baby cut carrots and bagged spinach, etc. all are unclean.
Not to mention homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions