How I feel about some of these forums

lemurcat12

acollis1 wrote: »

baby05phat wrote: »

I'm especially talking about the "clean eating" hate going on. People instantly get attacked for suggesting they are going to restrict certain foods, eat raw or just eat unprocessed/nutritious foods only. Some people have to do this or the other food triggers a massive binge from those with binge eating disorder, etc.
I'm just saying we are all different, can we be a little more open minded to different things. Obviously unhealthy diets and things that will harm you can be commented upon but then again even fasting for short periods of time is healthy for some people and some doctors even recommend intense diets for people who's situation is life/death.

This^^^^ I have to eat clean or I don't lose weight, but I have seen many people get bashed for the mere suggestion.

I doubt this, but I think it's quite possible that you will find it easy and more enjoyable to lose by focusing on eating a nutritious, balanced diet or by avoiding trigger foods.

What most of us take issue with is the term "clean" which means nothing consistent and just sounds like an insult or a way of saying that your diet is "purer" than ours. If you said you feel better mostly cooking from whole foods or cutting out grains or whatever it is you do mean, that would probably go over better.

I wish I could eat cheeseburgers and fries everyday and have icecream for dessert as long as I'm in a deficit. But this does not work for me.

Not "clean eating" doesn't mean eating high calorie foods constantly, let alone only, as is so often claimed. That's actually what usually starts the arguing. It's kind of offensive and just not true to claim that because someone has different ideas about what makes for a good diet or a nutritious, balanced diet specifically than you do--and I have no idea what you even think, because "clean" means nothing--that means he or she cares nothing about nutrition or eats donuts or McD's or even homemade cheeseburgers and fries all day, everyday.

I may well eat a pretty similar diet to yours, who knows. I also like having some ice cream when I have the calories. Maybe you prefer to spend your extra calories in some other way or have fewer calories than I do, who knows. But it's simply not true that choosing to eat ice cream means you aren't interested in nutrition, etc. There's this weird all or nothing attitude some seem to have, as if "eating what you want in moderation" means eating mostly low nutrient "junk" foods.

BigLifter10

Just thinking that....posting for an agenda.

FitForL1fe

baby05phat wrote: »

But even if it doesn't trigger a binge and I eat tims in combination and have a healthy day. I always wake up wanting tims the next day and the next and the next. Most likely why there are addictions to fast food, I suspect they put chemicals in there that bring us right back which was shown in lab rats as well. Lab rats picked the fast food everytime or stayed starving until they got it

lemurcat12 wrote: »

baby05phat wrote: »

I have binge eating disorder and I managed to eat strictly organic/healthy foods and never binge for a year and then I went to tim hortons followed by mcdonalds on someones birthday and binged nonstop, anytime I eat those foods the binging is triggered.
Maybe moderation only works for some people and not for others at all

If you have BED that's a mental issue and you should be treated for it. You should figure out what works for you, but from what I've seen it's not uncommon for restrictiveness and ideas about certain foods being bad to be an aggravating factor. If you tell yourself you can't control yourself if you eat something or that you've spoiled everything if you do, of course there's a tendency to go nuts when you finally eat it.

Better to be able to moderate.

I'm not telling you to eat Tim Hortons or McD's, as I don't care. I never go to either place because I don't care for them, but I also don't tell myself that certain foods are "bad" or "unclean" or that they have control over me. I do try to eat a nutritious and delicious diet as that furthers my goals and makes me happy.

plenty of us can fit fast food (or any other food) into our diets as often as we like and still get the results we want. so if fast food causes you to stumble then you can only blame yourself.

stevencloser

baby05phat wrote: »

Exactly, therefore helping remove toxins = weight loss, but eating junk food can cause other types of toxic reactions. They are still studying cancer and its link to junk food/gmo, nothing is a fine line or easy straight answer

TimothyFish wrote: »

baby05phat wrote: »

Is there seriously no way to get rid of toxins? Then why does bloodwork look so much better after the person has lost weight and become healthier? A toxin is anything that damages the body.
Plus are all of you doctors? Lol ...even science and doctors only know so much about the human body. We are unsure of so many things and still researching for example we are still unsure of gmo's and what they can do to us in the future, we have a growing obesity epidemic so I just thought this place would be friendlier

Your body naturally removes toxins. The reason bloodwork looks better after a person has lost weight is because they've reduced the size of the body that the internal organs have to remove toxins from. Same thing with blood pressure. If the is less places that have to have food an oxygen, the heart doesn't have to work as hard getting blood to those places.

There is nothing that helps you remove any toxins any faster than what your kidneys and liver do. All detoxes I know of only do one thing, make you *kitten* your guts out.
Also you switched cause and effect there.

diannethegeek

There is some actual rudeness that goes above and beyond what should be acceptable here. Report it (use the actual report function not the flags) and let the mods deal with it. There are also some people on the boards who are overly sensitive and are going to have a harder time hearing responses who may escalate posts quickly. In truth, most of the posters on this board fall somewhere in between. They try to be helpful but they may have a bad day here and there or post something that comes across as blunter or snarkier than they intended.

It's been my experience that every helpful poster on these forums, every single one, will be called rude, mean, negative, troll, bully, etc. at some point or another no matter how carefully they phrase their advice. The weekly, and now almost daily, threads denigrating and name-calling the posters on these boards because they aren't nice enough create a far more negative atmosphere, imo, than those posters who are using a tone that you may not like or agree with.

barbecuesauce

baby05phat wrote: »

But even if it doesn't trigger a binge and I eat tims in combination and have a healthy day. I always wake up wanting tims the next day and the next and the next. Most likely why there are addictions to fast food, I suspect they put chemicals in there that bring us right back which was shown in lab rats as well. Lab rats picked the fast food everytime or stayed starving until they got it

lemurcat12 wrote: »

baby05phat wrote: »

I have binge eating disorder and I managed to eat strictly organic/healthy foods and never binge for a year and then I went to tim hortons followed by mcdonalds on someones birthday and binged nonstop, anytime I eat those foods the binging is triggered.
Maybe moderation only works for some people and not for others at all

If you have BED that's a mental issue and you should be treated for it. You should figure out what works for you, but from what I've seen it's not uncommon for restrictiveness and ideas about certain foods being bad to be an aggravating factor. If you tell yourself you can't control yourself if you eat something or that you've spoiled everything if you do, of course there's a tendency to go nuts when you finally eat it.

Better to be able to moderate.

I'm not telling you to eat Tim Hortons or McD's, as I don't care. I never go to either place because I don't care for them, but I also don't tell myself that certain foods are "bad" or "unclean" or that they have control over me. I do try to eat a nutritious and delicious diet as that furthers my goals and makes me happy.

Can you link us to that fast food rat study? I am very interested in reading it. I have never known an animal to behave in this manner (house cats aside).

peter56765

baby05phat wrote: »

Is there seriously no way to get rid of toxins? Then why does bloodwork look so much better after the person has lost weight and become healthier? A toxin is anything that damages the body.

Too much of anything can be a toxin. Water can be a toxin if you drink too much. Also, your body's natural processes continually produce wastes and toxins so there really is no way to cleanse your body completely of toxins. Fortunately, your kidneys, liver and lymph nodes do a fine job filtering out the toxins in your body all on their own.

Plus are all of you doctors? Lol ...even science and doctors only know so much about the human body. We are unsure of so many things and still researching for example we are still unsure of gmo's and what they can do to us in the future, we have a growing obesity epidemic so I just thought this place would be friendlier

Sure, we don't know everything but that's no reason to throw up our hands and ignore what we do know. In general, science isn't constantly replacing one set of beliefs with a new set every time a new study comes out. Scientific knowledge builds on previous knowledge. We don't throw out everything and start over. We refine the theories we already have.

For example, current dietary theory states that consuming carbohydrates provides energy and tends to raise blood sugar levels. It is highly unlikely that this theory will be abandoned, however we may find that the specific amount of calories may be slightly changed based on some other factor, perhaps the other foods consumed at the same time, or the time of day, or the person's age or whatever. Similarly, new discovers may find that the magnitude of the rise in blood sugar levels is dependent on various other factors. The key point is that the original theory isn't simply discarded once new information is available.

So having said that, when someone posts an article here on, say, plant based saturated fat having a reduced role in coronary artery disease vs. animal based saturated fat, the topic will likely receive a good welcome and provoke a lot of lively discussion, especially if the data is from a peer reviewed journal. OTOH, if someone posts a link to a person's blog claiming GMO's cause cancer because this guy's uncle once ate an ear of GMO corn and then died four months later from liver cancer - well, that's not going to go over so well.

lemurcat12

strong_curves wrote: »

I think the clean eating issue is "clean eaters" tend to claim that it's the only way to lose weight and it isn't. I know plenty of "dirty eaters" (myself included) who have never had a serious weight problem!

My problem with "clean eating" is that, somewhat, but it's even more the following:

(1) It's not a clear term and means nothing and most "clean" eaters pat themselves on the back for their special diets while eating basically like the rest of us. It's just quite often they've recently converted from really unhealthy diets and assume most everyone else eats like they used to--they imagine eating what you want in moderation means McD only or some such.

(2) In that it doesn't really mean anything, I think it's chosen specifically to be insulting--to call what others are eating "unclean." I think that's rude.

baby05phat

I thought clean eating was just no take-out or junk food at all.

JPW1990 wrote: »

If you want people to stop complaining about "clean eating," post a definition of "clean eating" that EVERYONE who claims to follow it agrees with and lives by. Until you can do that, you see exactly the reason people complain about the phrase being thrown around as a WOE instead of as a meaningless ephemeral idea.

FitForL1fe

peter56765 wrote: »

OTOH, if someone posts a link to a person's blog claiming GMO's cause cancer because this guy's uncle once ate an ear of GMO corn and then died four months later from liver cancer - well, that's not going to go over so well.

lol UNCLE JOHNNY NOOOO GMOOOOO

barbecuesauce

baby05phat wrote: »

I thought clean eating was just no take-out or junk food at all.

JPW1990 wrote: »

If you want people to stop complaining about "clean eating," post a definition of "clean eating" that EVERYONE who claims to follow it agrees with and lives by. Until you can do that, you see exactly the reason people complain about the phrase being thrown around as a WOE instead of as a meaningless ephemeral idea.

But then you started talking about GMOs and Monsanto. Clean eating seems to be one of those terms that is quite specific to the individual.

diannethegeek

And because it's proven useful in the past, I'll throw up my list of clean eating definitions. These have all been off-the-cuff answers given to the question of what clean eating really is. I've cleaned a few of them up for punctuation/spelling, but may of them are directly copy/pasted from their original posts.

Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Anything that doesn't cause your body bloat or inflammation.

And I'll note that by some of those definitions, Fritos are a clean food.

PeachyCarol

baby05phat wrote: »

Exactly, therefore helping remove toxins = weight loss, but eating junk food can cause other types of toxic reactions. They are still studying cancer and its link to junk food/gmo, nothing is a fine line or easy straight answer

TimothyFish wrote: »

baby05phat wrote: »

Is there seriously no way to get rid of toxins? Then why does bloodwork look so much better after the person has lost weight and become healthier? A toxin is anything that damages the body.
Plus are all of you doctors? Lol ...even science and doctors only know so much about the human body. We are unsure of so many things and still researching for example we are still unsure of gmo's and what they can do to us in the future, we have a growing obesity epidemic so I just thought this place would be friendlier

Your body naturally removes toxins. The reason bloodwork looks better after a person has lost weight is because they've reduced the size of the body that the internal organs have to remove toxins from. Same thing with blood pressure. If the is less places that have to have food an oxygen, the heart doesn't have to work as hard getting blood to those places.

Might as well start. This is going to end in gifs before it's locked.

usmcmp

baby05phat wrote: »

But even if it doesn't trigger a binge and I eat tims in combination and have a healthy day. I always wake up wanting tims the next day and the next and the next. Most likely why there are addictions to fast food, I suspect they put chemicals in there that bring us right back which was shown in lab rats as well. Lab rats picked the fast food everytime or stayed starving until they got it

lemurcat12 wrote: »

baby05phat wrote: »

I have binge eating disorder and I managed to eat strictly organic/healthy foods and never binge for a year and then I went to tim hortons followed by mcdonalds on someones birthday and binged nonstop, anytime I eat those foods the binging is triggered.
Maybe moderation only works for some people and not for others at all

If you have BED that's a mental issue and you should be treated for it. You should figure out what works for you, but from what I've seen it's not uncommon for restrictiveness and ideas about certain foods being bad to be an aggravating factor. If you tell yourself you can't control yourself if you eat something or that you've spoiled everything if you do, of course there's a tendency to go nuts when you finally eat it.

Better to be able to moderate.

I'm not telling you to eat Tim Hortons or McD's, as I don't care. I never go to either place because I don't care for them, but I also don't tell myself that certain foods are "bad" or "unclean" or that they have control over me. I do try to eat a nutritious and delicious diet as that furthers my goals and makes me happy.

Can you please link the study that show that rats will starve themselves if they don't get fast food. I have read lots and lots of studies, but have never seen this study and am interested in it.

mk2fit

OP, first you complain about meanies, then consistently pick fights with everyone here. If McDonald's and Tim Hortons set off binges, DON'T go there. As for "GMOs", good grief, if it weren't for a monk in Europe fiddling around with peas a few hundred years ago, we would probable have no vegetables worth a darn.

lemurcat12

baby05phat wrote: »

But even if it doesn't trigger a binge and I eat tims in combination and have a healthy day. I always wake up wanting tims the next day and the next and the next.

If it doesn't work for you, don't eat it. Like I said, I don't care, I never eat it myself. I just think your desire for it is probably more related to restricting than the food.

Most likely why there are addictions to fast food

Bunk.

For some people's palates it seems to be highly palatable, probably the combination of fat and salt (or sugar and fat for Tim Horton's). I doubt it's more so than really delicious and well-cooked food from other sources--I know I'm more likely to crave other types of food--but it's cheap and easily available by comparison. I bet it would be a lot less so if you didn't make it forbidden fruit that's always extra appealing, but like I said no one cares if you eat it or not. I don't eat it and no one has said a mean word to me about it, perhaps because I don't preach about how others should eat.

lemurcat12 wrote: »

baby05phat wrote: »

I have binge eating disorder and I managed to eat strictly organic/healthy foods and never binge for a year and then I went to tim hortons followed by mcdonalds on someones birthday and binged nonstop, anytime I eat those foods the binging is triggered.
Maybe moderation only works for some people and not for others at all

If you have BED that's a mental issue and you should be treated for it. You should figure out what works for you, but from what I've seen it's not uncommon for restrictiveness and ideas about certain foods being bad to be an aggravating factor. If you tell yourself you can't control yourself if you eat something or that you've spoiled everything if you do, of course there's a tendency to go nuts when you finally eat it.

Better to be able to moderate.

I'm not telling you to eat Tim Hortons or McD's, as I don't care. I never go to either place because I don't care for them, but I also don't tell myself that certain foods are "bad" or "unclean" or that they have control over me. I do try to eat a nutritious and delicious diet as that furthers my goals and makes me happy.

[/quote]

baby05phat

I found this thread to be both helpful & nice from some people and I enjoyed reading their responses/learning more and from others I felt like they're saying I'm an idiot for any beliefs I have outside of their own. So it's hard and I'm torn but I'm going to stay here to keep learning from the awesome people

PeachyCarol

baby05phat wrote: »

That's great and I don't put you down for it and tell you to stop dirty eating. Thats what works for you, all I'm asking is some people respect what works for other people may be different than you

strong_curves wrote: »

I think the clean eating issue is "clean eaters" tend to claim that it's the only way to lose weight and it isn't. I know plenty of "dirty eaters" (myself included) who have never had a serious weight problem!

What works is one thing. Bad science is another. Don't make a scientific claim that's not supported.

cwolfman13

baby05phat wrote: »

I thought clean eating was just no take-out or junk food at all.

I usually have a massive garden salad, 1/2 an avocado, and some kind of protein and some kind of fruit for my lunch...didn't have time to get stuff together for today's lunch so I tossed my avocado into my lunch bag along with some cherries for desert and went and bought a full Asian Cashew Chicken salad from Wendy's. Is my lunch dirty since I didn't make the salad at home?