Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
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I totally agree; a good one is hard to find (unless they cost a fortune).0
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good to do yoga and meditation http://learnunbound.com/articles/why-we-can-prefer-yoga-over-exercise0
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I can only imagine how long body recomp would take doing yoga & meditation.3
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Thanks everyone for weighing in on my cardio... I know, it's kind of confusing sometimes!
Basically my trainer says I don't *need* to be doing much cardio since I am happy with my weight and more interested now in gaining lean mass to replace fat mass. But he also said if I actually ENJOY it (which I do) that I should still keep doing it, but not to the extent that I don't get sufficient time to rest/recover. Personally, I enjoy my cardio activity and I also enjoy having at higher TDEE (because I like to EAT!) so I will keep it up but I've made some adjustments to fit in my strength workouts and allow for a bit more rest. Also, I've upped my protein intake significantly.
In other news, I had a Bod Pod test today. Has anyone else done this? It gave me a measurement of 20% body fat and it also gave my my personal RMR, and TDEE for different levels of activity. It pretty much confirmed the numbers I had already estimated, but it was nice to know that I am on the right track and not grossly over or underestimating.
To the bolded, you have yourself a good trainer!
Yup. I know that my cycling has a negative effect on me gaining mass, but it's not something I am willing to give up. I just eat a *kitten* ton to compensate.
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Hey all! Great thread here. Wanted to jump in and get some feedback. Just wondering when you all decided to finally make the jump to recomposition? I've lost from 240 to 165ish (bounce between 165 and 167), and still currently in a slight deficit.
It's hard for me to estimate my own body fat, as I think I have a skewed image of what I look like. I'll post my current pic here to help, but want to make sure I'm at a point where recomp is appropriate.
A bit about me:
M, 26 years old
5' 9.33", weight like I said above 165 pounds.
Waist measurement: 32", give or take a 1/2 cm
During my deficit, I really only ran and did cardio. I haven't touched a weight in years. Which is one of the reasons I'm wanting to start a recomp.
Hope you all can help and point me in the right direction, whether it's time to start the recomp or if I should cut a few more pounds first. And if you have a BF% estimate for me that would be great too!
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Hey all! Great thread here. Wanted to jump in and get some feedback. Just wondering when you all decided to finally make the jump to recomposition? I've lost from 240 to 165ish (bounce between 165 and 167), and still currently in a slight deficit.
It's hard for me to estimate my own body fat, as I think I have a skewed image of what I look like. I'll post my current pic here to help, but want to make sure I'm at a point where recomp is appropriate.
A bit about me:
M, 26 years old
5' 9.33", weight like I said above 165 pounds.
Waist measurement: 32", give or take a 1/2 cm
During my deficit, I really only ran and did cardio. I haven't touched a weight in years. Which is one of the reasons I'm wanting to start a recomp.
Hope you all can help and point me in the right direction, whether it's time to start the recomp or if I should cut a few more pounds first. And if you have a BF% estimate for me that would be great too!
18%? Start lifting weights now! How do you feel about your current weight? How long did it take you to lose the weight? Have you ever had a diet break? If you are unsure what to do you can always eat at maintenance while lifting weights and re-evaluate in a few months.0 -
ditto's to above - start now lifting no matter what.
Keep a minor 250 deficit perhaps - because you'll be in unique place to lose fat while making great progress - that won't happen as easy later with less BF.
And yes - MFP's database entry for Weight lifting seems like low calorie burn - and it is.
Just warning you if used to cardio level burns.
So the 250 deficit may help with fact you'll be burning less.
But still log and eat it back to keep the minor deficit.1 -
ditto's to above - start now lifting no matter what.
Keep a minor 250 deficit perhaps - because you'll be in unique place to lose fat while making great progress - that won't happen as easy later with less BF.
And yes - MFP's database entry for Weight lifting seems like low calorie burn - and it is.
Just warning you if used to cardio level burns.
So the 250 deficit may help with fact you'll be burning less.
But still log and eat it back to keep the minor deficit.
Thanks!
What are your opinions on the +20/-20 off TDEE for recomp? Looking at the LeanGains breakdown, I'm considering this one.
Calculating my needs with 3 days lifting and then sporadic cardio, I'd do 2880 cals on lifting days and 1920 on non-lifting days, for an average of 2331 calories per day. And protein I'd try to hit 150 grams per day.
I think this looks like a pretty good plan. I'm happy at 165 pounds. Could I be happy a little lower, sure, but I think 165 and lower fat will be good for me.0 -
ditto's to above - start now lifting no matter what.
Keep a minor 250 deficit perhaps - because you'll be in unique place to lose fat while making great progress - that won't happen as easy later with less BF.
And yes - MFP's database entry for Weight lifting seems like low calorie burn - and it is.
Just warning you if used to cardio level burns.
So the 250 deficit may help with fact you'll be burning less.
But still log and eat it back to keep the minor deficit.
Thanks!
What are your opinions on the +20/-20 off TDEE for recomp? Looking at the LeanGains breakdown, I'm considering this one.
Calculating my needs with 3 days lifting and then sporadic cardio, I'd do 2880 cals on lifting days and 1920 on non-lifting days, for an average of 2331 calories per day. And protein I'd try to hit 150 grams per day.
I think this looks like a pretty good plan. I'm happy at 165 pounds. Could I be happy a little lower, sure, but I think 165 and lower fat will be good for me.
That's really more MFP method when you think about it - you eat more when you do more, eat less when you do less. Set to maintenance instead of deficit. But you could take deficit and still do it.
Many people like the weekly average TDEE method because you eat the same amount daily despite the fact your actual calorie burn is different. Whereas MFP is floating goal when used as designed, with static deficit or none.
Method you describe is same way - might as well use MFP as designed.
Are your workouts in the morning, so that eating more that physical day helps with recovery? If evening workout, the next day for recovery would actually benefit from higher calories then.
Just be careful if your lifting recovery for the 24-48 hrs falls into time span of big cardio burn, that creates a bigger deficit that day when you least want it for recovery - if doing the method you mention.
You could still keep it simple and eat 100 extra calories during that recovery time, and take it from the day with none - just a trade.1 -
ditto's to above - start now lifting no matter what.
Keep a minor 250 deficit perhaps - because you'll be in unique place to lose fat while making great progress - that won't happen as easy later with less BF.
And yes - MFP's database entry for Weight lifting seems like low calorie burn - and it is.
Just warning you if used to cardio level burns.
So the 250 deficit may help with fact you'll be burning less.
But still log and eat it back to keep the minor deficit.
Thanks!
What are your opinions on the +20/-20 off TDEE for recomp? Looking at the LeanGains breakdown, I'm considering this one.
Calculating my needs with 3 days lifting and then sporadic cardio, I'd do 2880 cals on lifting days and 1920 on non-lifting days, for an average of 2331 calories per day. And protein I'd try to hit 150 grams per day.
I think this looks like a pretty good plan. I'm happy at 165 pounds. Could I be happy a little lower, sure, but I think 165 and lower fat will be good for me.
That's really more MFP method when you think about it - you eat more when you do more, eat less when you do less. Set to maintenance instead of deficit. But you could take deficit and still do it.
Many people like the weekly average TDEE method because you eat the same amount daily despite the fact your actual calorie burn is different. Whereas MFP is floating goal when used as designed, with static deficit or none.
Method you describe is same way - might as well use MFP as designed.
Are your workouts in the morning, so that eating more that physical day helps with recovery? If evening workout, the next day for recovery would actually benefit from higher calories then.
Just be careful if your lifting recovery for the 24-48 hrs falls into time span of big cardio burn, that creates a bigger deficit that day when you least want it for recovery - if doing the method you mention.
You could still keep it simple and eat 100 extra calories during that recovery time, and take it from the day with none - just a trade.
Thanks for the insight/reasoning. I've decided to go with 2500 per day, average. I started StrongLifts 5x5 today and plan on 2-3 days of cardio (mostly swimming right now, more running in a few months when I'm fully recovered from my tendinitis in my Achilles) but the consistent calories seemed easier and like your reasoning mentioned, I wouldn't fall into a recovery day with low cals if I have to lift at night.
Thanks for your help! I'll keep you all posted.0 -
Tagging to follow0
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Following since I'm moving into toning and cutting0
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I have read this thread with interest. I have a question. I think I understand these 2 different processes (bulk/cut and recomp). If you have a LOT of weight to lose, do you have any suggestions about optimizing body composition while losing the weight (hopefully mostly fat). I am thinking adequate protein, low carb and a commitment to strength training. Is this too simplistic/naive?0
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KarenHatch1 wrote: »I have read this thread with interest. I have a question. I think I understand these 2 different processes (bulk/cut and recomp). If you have a LOT of weight to lose, do you have any suggestions about optimizing body composition while losing the weight (hopefully mostly fat). I am thinking adequate protein, low carb and a commitment to strength training. Is this too simplistic/naive?
A calorie deficit, adequate protein, structured lifting program - for a cut. Going low carb is not necessary.3 -
KarenHatch1 wrote: »I have read this thread with interest. I have a question. I think I understand these 2 different processes (bulk/cut and recomp). If you have a LOT of weight to lose, do you have any suggestions about optimizing body composition while losing the weight (hopefully mostly fat). I am thinking adequate protein, low carb and a commitment to strength training. Is this too simplistic/naive?
Made it too complex rather than too simplistic!
Zero need to go low carb unless you want to create your deficit that way.
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Thank you!0
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KarenHatch1 wrote: »I have read this thread with interest. I have a question. I think I understand these 2 different processes (bulk/cut and recomp). If you have a LOT of weight to lose, do you have any suggestions about optimizing body composition while losing the weight (hopefully mostly fat). I am thinking adequate protein, low carb and a commitment to strength training. Is this too simplistic/naive?
A calorie deficit, adequate protein, structured lifting program - for a cut. Going low carb is not necessary.
Ok.. Gosh this seems simple.. why am I still confused!! LOL!
SO...I'm not necessarily in recomp (maintaining weight while losing BF% and gaining muscle) I would still like to lose about 10-12 lbs while weight training. I'm currently eating at a 25-30% cal deficit. I keep reading that in order to build muscle you have to be eating at maintenance, then I read this about eating at a deficit with adequate protein. I also read that if you're not eating enough calories your body will go into catabolic mode and start breaking down your muscles for amino acids and protein. CONFUSED!
Is it called a cut when you're lifting weights while eating at a deficit?
Can you BUILD muscle eating at a calorie deficit?
Is protein the primary component to building, can you still build muscle if you're meeting your protein macros?
Thank you everyone for your posts and all the info!0 -
Kerryatoon wrote: »KarenHatch1 wrote: »I have read this thread with interest. I have a question. I think I understand these 2 different processes (bulk/cut and recomp). If you have a LOT of weight to lose, do you have any suggestions about optimizing body composition while losing the weight (hopefully mostly fat). I am thinking adequate protein, low carb and a commitment to strength training. Is this too simplistic/naive?
A calorie deficit, adequate protein, structured lifting program - for a cut. Going low carb is not necessary.
Ok.. Gosh this seems simple.. why am I still confused!! LOL!
SO...I'm not necessarily in recomp (maintaining weight while losing BF% and gaining muscle) I would still like to lose about 10-12 lbs while weight training. I'm currently eating at a 25-30% cal deficit. I keep reading that in order to build muscle you have to be eating at maintenance, then I read this about eating at a deficit with adequate protein. I also read that if you're not eating enough calories your body will go into catabolic mode and start breaking down your muscles for amino acids and protein. CONFUSED!
Is it called a cut when you're lifting weights while eating at a deficit?
Can you BUILD muscle eating at a calorie deficit?
Is protein the primary component to building, can you still build muscle if you're meeting your protein macros?
Thank you everyone for your posts and all the info!
The bold is what i am confused about. Why at such a high deficit?
A cut is when you eat at a deficit. You are cutting body fat down.
I am not sure the science on question 2 outside of newbie gains I wouldn't think so.
Again not a science person so no idea.
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Kerryatoon wrote: »KarenHatch1 wrote: »I have read this thread with interest. I have a question. I think I understand these 2 different processes (bulk/cut and recomp). If you have a LOT of weight to lose, do you have any suggestions about optimizing body composition while losing the weight (hopefully mostly fat). I am thinking adequate protein, low carb and a commitment to strength training. Is this too simplistic/naive?
A calorie deficit, adequate protein, structured lifting program - for a cut. Going low carb is not necessary.
Ok.. Gosh this seems simple.. why am I still confused!! LOL!
SO...I'm not necessarily in recomp (maintaining weight while losing BF% and gaining muscle) I would still like to lose about 10-12 lbs while weight training. I'm currently eating at a 25-30% cal deficit. I keep reading that in order to build muscle you have to be eating at maintenance, then I read this about eating at a deficit with adequate protein. I also read that if you're not eating enough calories your body will go into catabolic mode and start breaking down your muscles for amino acids and protein. CONFUSED!
Is it called a cut when you're lifting weights while eating at a deficit?
Can you BUILD muscle eating at a calorie deficit?
Is protein the primary component to building, can you still build muscle if you're meeting your protein macros?
Thank you everyone for your posts and all the info!
The poster mentioned bulk/cut & recomp but mentioned needing to lose weight. A cut while getting adequate protein and lifting will help preserve muscle mass. The bulk portion (of a bulk & cut) would be gaining muscles. Recomp is maintaining your weight while lifting. In recomp you are hopefully slowly losing fat and slowly gaining mucsle.1 -
The bold is what i am confused about. Why at such a high deficit?
A cut is when you eat at a deficit. You are cutting body fat down.
I am not sure the science on question 2 outside of newbie gains I wouldn't think so.
Again not a science person so no idea.
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@sunflowerhippie3 I just switched from MFP 1200/day cals (-2lb/week goal) to using TDEE. I calculated my TDEE usng my actual data (weight loss and calories eaten) over a 10 week period and came up with at TDEE of 1842.
At a 25% deficit that would put me at 1382. MFP says that will give me 1lb/week loss. Quite honestly I'm struggling with the change in mindset of eating more.. I'm also still tweaking to reduce fats and increase protein so I meet my protein macros without going over my calories. I often will eat under my cal goals anyway because I'm scared to go up to the 1390.
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Kerryatoon wrote: »The bold is what i am confused about. Why at such a high deficit?
A cut is when you eat at a deficit. You are cutting body fat down.
I am not sure the science on question 2 outside of newbie gains I wouldn't think so.
Again not a science person so no idea.
@sunflowerhippi I just switched from MFP 1200/day cals (-2lb/week goal) to using TDEE. I calculated my TDEE usng my actual data (weight loss and calories eaten) over a 10 week period and came up with at TDEE of 1842.
At a 25% deficit that would put me at 1382. MFP says that will give me 1lb/week loss. Quite honestly I'm struggling with the change in mindset of eating more.. I'm also still tweaking to reduce fats and increase protein so I meet my protein macros without going over my calories. I often will eat under my cal goals anyway because I'm scared to go up to the 1390.
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Nah I get the mindset change. It takes a while to get used to the idea of eating more and that you will still lose weight and body fat while doing it. (This is my second time around due to pregnancy haha)
I would rather lose slower and keep firm skin then to drop to fast and end up with looser skin in the end. I am having that problem this time due to 30lbs in 1 month when my daughter was born. As much as it blows to see the scale go slower it is a better long term goal and more sustainable. Anytime I go up in calories as I get closer to maintenance I find that I go up a bit on the scales but then it settles back down and then drops lower. You just have to go with the flow on the scale and make sure that long term it is going down.
Also I know for me reducing fats made it harder to reach protein because I like red meats and cheese both of which are higher in fat but high protein also. This obviously depends on your style of foods and what you like to eat but I find lowering carbs just happens when I aim to meat my protein.1 -
@sunflowerhippi Thanks! I'll keep that in mind as I watch the trend over the next few weeks. I'm having the same problem with finding LEAN proteins. I love red meat, nuts and cheese.. do you use protein powder at all? I'm considering it since I have yet to meet my protein goals since calculating @1g/lb LBM.0
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LOL! @sunflowerhippi "when I aim to meat my protein." Well said!2
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Hey all! Great thread here. Wanted to jump in and get some feedback. Just wondering when you all decided to finally make the jump to recomposition? I've lost from 240 to 165ish (bounce between 165 and 167), and still currently in a slight deficit.
It's hard for me to estimate my own body fat, as I think I have a skewed image of what I look like. I'll post my current pic here to help, but want to make sure I'm at a point where recomp is appropriate.
A bit about me:
M, 26 years old
5' 9.33", weight like I said above 165 pounds.
Waist measurement: 32", give or take a 1/2 cm
During my deficit, I really only ran and did cardio. I haven't touched a weight in years. Which is one of the reasons I'm wanting to start a recomp.
Hope you all can help and point me in the right direction, whether it's time to start the recomp or if I should cut a few more pounds first. And if you have a BF% estimate for me that would be great too!
Wow! Can't wait to see your gains when you start lifting. It should be awesome!
Congrats on your loss and progress so far! 0 -
Kerryatoon wrote: »@sunflowerhippi Thanks! I'll keep that in mind as I watch the trend over the next few weeks. I'm having the same problem with finding LEAN proteins. I love red meat, nuts and cheese.. do you use protein powder at all? I'm considering it since I have yet to meet my protein goals since calculating @1g/lb LBM.
I do. Normally as a mid day sweet snack to tide me over till dinner. I work till 6:30pm so I eat a very late dinner by the time I get home and get the baby to sleep for the night. I added you to my friends list if you want to accept. I have an open diary to friends.1 -
KarenHatch1 wrote: »LOL! @sunflowerhippi "when I aim to meat my protein." Well said!
That was so not me, haha talk to text did good for that pun. 1 -
@Kerryatoon - wow - you were eating what is considered bare minimum for just nutrients for average sedentary woman just for safety.
You should really think about trying to get more than minimum results from all your hard work by keeping the deficit reasonable. And a level appropriate for a man.
I'd throw out your math for estimating your TDEE based on weight loss when eating that little - you likely lost LBM and muscle mass doing no lifting - and that means the 3500 cal/lb is invalid - as muscle not rebuilt only supplies about 600 cal/lb from the amino acids. Ya - easier to lose a lb of muscle than a lb of fat as far as calories is concerned.
And with only 10 lbs left - you'd really benefit from only a 250 cal deficit if using MFP style, or 15% if using TDEE style.
And whatever tables you use for TDEE - be aware they only talk about exercise in their rough 5 ranges, if you are more active than 45 hr weekly deskjob commute, like you have kids - then you bump up to Lightly Active just for that. Exercise is even more than.0 -
@heybales Thank you for all the information. I do want to benefit from my hard work! Definitely!! I went to your page and used your excel spreadsheets to calculate my TDEE & TDEG. The results were very close for my TDEG: 1635 & 1616 (@10% deficit). I am concerned that I lost LBM during my 1200 loss period as I wasn't lifting and my loss was fairly rapid. So I suspect you are right about my TDEE Calculations.. My calculation was 1390 vs. your sheets 1795. That's a 400/cal difference! Since it is such a large difference I think I will try the low end @ 1616 TDEG. I am willing to try this and will be looking at the details on how to set up my MFP but I'm freaking out a bit about it..
It seems crazy!!! I am already struggling to reach 1390 daily. I can't imagine eating enough to reach 1616!!! I feel like I'm eating when I'm not hungry and struggling to finish my meals that I'm calculating. I have noticed I'm more hungry on lifting days but not starving. I've already started to eat more frequent "small" meals throughout the day in an attempt to get in more calories.. but I just can't wrap my brain around the amount of VOLUME I need to consume to reach my cal goals. Am I that off that I've been starving myself? Can this be right?! Sorry I don't mean to be critical, I'm just baffled.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!!!!0 -
Your body can adjust hunger levels when undereating, and not be hungry.
You feeling full, and your body being fully fed for level of activity - are 2 different things.
That's why the advice to listen to your body rarely works - unless you truly understand all the reasons why the signals could be wrong.
Shoot - most people are trying to lose weight exactly because they did listen to hunger signals.
I'd suggest give your body a stress break from the diet - slowly work your way up to what potential TDEE could be.
So for a week, eat 100 cal daily extra. Next week, 100 more daily. until you reach no diet for a week or two.
That will also help you figure out where to put the calories.
Remember fat is good for you. Excess of anything is not. So don't buy only non/low fat stuff. More fat will take care of the volume problem. Ya, eating 100 more calories of cauliflower would be very difficult. A half serving of peanut butter weight - not so much.
You'll be shocked as you eat more, likely are more active daily whether you notice it or not, workouts improve - and you actually get more hungry eating more and more.
Any diet is really just extended starving from body's viewpoint. How much before it tries to adapt to prevent it is the question.
And I'd wager your body was adapting depending on how long in diet to that extreme.
Shoot, while moving up in calories, you just may discover that the transformation of the body to good workouts is causing a better effect than losing 10 more lbs would be - and then you'll be doing exactly what this topic is talking about.
Or you could do that minor deficit and finish it off at the same time.1 -
@heybales Your reasoning is sound.. I can't argue with that. I'm sure my body has adapted to it.. I remember 1200 cals being a major challenge in the beginning. I appreciate you speaking up on this as well as @sunflowerhippi, I know it wasn't necessarily the original topic of this thread. The more I look at other people's diaries, specifically people that are achieving what I want to in weightlifting, I see that their cals are all much closer to the higher TDEG I calculated. I'll work on it slowly and see how my workouts come along. I'm definitely less attached to my "goal weight" and may possibly be closer to my ideal weight than I think, what I really want is more muscle and lower BF% = RECOMP! Thank you so much!0
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