Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
Replies
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@nettiklive
Visually no I don't think you are high body fat at all. I don't think losing weight would be good for you either so I do think it's time to maintain. I also don't think you are "wide"!
To make progress you will need to work on your "inconsistent" lifting though - it's hard with children. If your training volume is too low can you perhaps top up with some home bodyweight exercises when the children are asleep? Also remember an efficient routine doesn't take a lot of time - optimise the time you have available with a good program.
Your difficulty in getting enough protein may be easier at maintenance calories just from the extra volume of food. But maybe protein supplementation would be a good idea?
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Is even a slight deficit going to make recomp crazy hard or impossible? I am being conservative about adding calories back; maybe a little too conservative. I got a new low on the scale this morning. Only a half pound and it could be a swing, but it hasn't swung that low before. The previous low was from 10 days ago and was lower than any swing I had before that by about a pound. So I think I have lost over a pound in about 4 weeks. I will edge up the calories a little; maybe 100. Still new to maintenance (about a month) and scared to up calories much, but I want to start working on recomp.0
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CarvedTones wrote: »Is even a slight deficit going to make recomp crazy hard or impossible?
Gaining muscle and losing fat at or around maintenance calories is really the meaning of recomp, not just precisely at maintenance.
Personal circumstances such as gender, age, training history, training status, genetics plus of course training and diet are wildly different between and produce different results.
Remember your body doesn't completely change physiology whether you are just under, just over or at perfect maintenance - even if it somehow had a sense of your calorie balance.
Bigger the deficit less likely to get muscle growth of course but I get the sense you are talking small adjustments?
Even at age 53 and with a lot of training under my belt I could still recomp in a deficit but had to bring that deficit right down to tiny levels, 1lb a month was my goal.
Over a period of months between scans I showed a weight loss of 4.2lbs but a fat loss of 7.7lbs along with visible improvements in leanness and measurable growth (slimmer/leaner waist, bigger and more defined arms and legs).
What does this mean?
"but I want to start working on recomp"
Hope you aren't putting off starting training?
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CarvedTones wrote: »Is even a slight deficit going to make recomp crazy hard or impossible? I am being conservative about adding calories back; maybe a little too conservative. I got a new low on the scale this morning. Only a half pound and it could be a swing, but it hasn't swung that low before. The previous low was from 10 days ago and was lower than any swing I had before that by about a pound. So I think I have lost over a pound in about 4 weeks. I will edge up the calories a little; maybe 100. Still new to maintenance (about a month) and scared to up calories much, but I want to start working on recomp.
Are you strength training now? Or will this be something entirely new for you?
Your maintenance should be a weight range +/- 5 lbs for example.
Reversing from calorie deficit can take a little time, so keep up your regime till you get there. Consistency with calorie intake and strength training over longer periods of time when it comes to recomp.
If you indeed trend down, your current loss averages to be about 875 calories/week, add this back to stop weight loss, trend it again over 4 weeks. If you are still losing adjust again, so on and so on.
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I am barely, and probably poorly (dumbbell routines I Googled), doing strength training now. Mostly I walk, in the 5 mile a day range lately. I want to get a tiny jiggle just above to waist to disappear and I want chest and shoulders a little more defined. I am not looking for massive changes.0
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@CarvedTones - also be aware if you take too long to try to find TDEE the seasons have changed and likely TDEE too.
Is your spring with longer days been in last few weeks?
For many that means more active by a bit, and enough, to mean a difference.
It's why it's useful to track to seasons.
Well, if the workouts stay generally the same.0 -
CarvedTones wrote: »I am barely, and probably poorly (dumbbell routines I Googled), doing strength training now. Mostly I walk, in the 5 mile a day range lately. I want to get a tiny jiggle just above to waist to disappear and I want chest and shoulders a little more defined. I am not looking for massive changes.
@heybales mentions something important. TDEE is subject to change, I like to call TDEE a moving target based on changes in NEAT or EAT. That's why having a weight range is important. If you you become a little less active of course your calorie needs will change, etc..
If you have more body fat to lose, you can recomp with a small deficit. Start giving strength training a little more emphasis. And since massive changes are not the goal, I see no reason to not take your time and tread waters slowly. I think after you have had a longer period of time working on your maintenance goals the easier this will becomes. I know and understand doing the slower approach.2 -
Well, the idea is to do the most damage to cause body to try to do hypertrophy the best it can - that process will use up the food you eat the most, requiring more fat to be used for daily life.
So best method to grow, is best method to use the fat up. At maintenance.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-low-versus-high-load-resistance-training-research-review.html/
Long but useful perhaps.
Nice read! Thanks0 -
mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »Question to the group. Based on your experiences/experiments do you think its better to do high volume lifting with recomp or do you feel you get better results with mass gain lifting programs? Obviously it depends on how you balance your calories to make sure you aren't gaining or losing. But I just wonder f you guys/gals have experience with high volume lifting programs, where you tend to burn a lot more calories and are pretty great for cutting. On the other hand it seems the power lifting strength programs, like strong lifts, canditos, etc. are more to suited to bulking given the low calorie burn/ coupled with high intensity you can gain weight easier. Do you feel if there is any advantage to either style for fat burning when in recomp maintenance calorie mode? Or what is your philosophy here?
High volume programs are not really great for cutting. You can burn out. You would have better luck keeping the intensity on the bar for as long as you can and cutting volume first. Heavy compound lifts are going to help maintain muscle mass and help you get a bang for your buck.
When I'm in maintenance or bulking I do not like running strictly strength based programs. It makes more sense to isolate muscle groups when you have a better chance at muscle growth. I like a hybrid.
I do a kinda hybrid myself, I just happen to be on calorie deficit at the moment. I don't find that I lose my willpower and intensity. Also heavy compounds are a feature part of my routine, but I just add a lot volume lifts and isolation moves with little rest to burn out. FTR according to my tracker I burn more cals lifting than I do cardio. so. Not that I trust those all that much.. And like you mentioned I do 5 day splits focusing on specific muscle groups.
I was just wondering if doing 3 days of straight power lifting strength with with energy and rest going balls to the wall, and then allowing my muscles to grow and recover would add any benefit during a maintenance phase or is that best reserved for bulking? But it seems you like a 5 day split for bulking as well? Perhaps a 5 day upper/Lower split would make a good compromise. Just wondering what people's philosophies are for recomping. I've alway's either been on deficit or a surplus, I've never tried the maintenance recomp, before so I'm not sure what kind of strategies make sense.
BTW Your routine is a whole lotta! Are you doing two a days? or something.
BTW, HRMs are NOT accurate for weightlifting. Google it for the proper answer as to why.
Ditto - if you want to give your tracker a chance at overall accuracy, and if syncing to MFP might as well use it well - you'll want to manually log your lifting workouts.
Small calorie burn compared to cardio, or the HR-based estimates - but that's true. But still meaningful too.
It seems that for HRM estimates, only steady state cardio appears accurate. I don't do boring workouts, so that's a non factor for me. higher intensity circuits/intervals, plyo metrics, strength / cardio combos, seem to be just as off as strength training would be. I look at the numbers from the HRM tracker just for comparison day to day. For me, it seems back day, dead lifts, pull ups, rows are what give me the higher cal numbers from a tracker, I'll get like 602 for 50mins. And yes I know they're inflated numbers. I'm sure there are plenty of tools out there that estimate cals from lifting using calculations only, but I wonder how accurate those would be for dynamic / non steady state cardio. It seems for maintenance that understanding your true calorie expenditure would be pretty important. Its kinda frustrating, when I feel I can't trust any of the information I get when it comes to work calories.0 -
mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »Question to the group. Based on your experiences/experiments do you think its better to do high volume lifting with recomp or do you feel you get better results with mass gain lifting programs? Obviously it depends on how you balance your calories to make sure you aren't gaining or losing. But I just wonder f you guys/gals have experience with high volume lifting programs, where you tend to burn a lot more calories and are pretty great for cutting. On the other hand it seems the power lifting strength programs, like strong lifts, canditos, etc. are more to suited to bulking given the low calorie burn/ coupled with high intensity you can gain weight easier. Do you feel if there is any advantage to either style for fat burning when in recomp maintenance calorie mode? Or what is your philosophy here?
High volume programs are not really great for cutting. You can burn out. You would have better luck keeping the intensity on the bar for as long as you can and cutting volume first. Heavy compound lifts are going to help maintain muscle mass and help you get a bang for your buck.
When I'm in maintenance or bulking I do not like running strictly strength based programs. It makes more sense to isolate muscle groups when you have a better chance at muscle growth. I like a hybrid.
I do a kinda hybrid myself, I just happen to be on calorie deficit at the moment. I don't find that I lose my willpower and intensity. Also heavy compounds are a feature part of my routine, but I just add a lot volume lifts and isolation moves with little rest to burn out. FTR according to my tracker I burn more cals lifting than I do cardio. so. Not that I trust those all that much.. And like you mentioned I do 5 day splits focusing on specific muscle groups.
I was just wondering if doing 3 days of straight power lifting strength with with energy and rest going balls to the wall, and then allowing my muscles to grow and recover would add any benefit during a maintenance phase or is that best reserved for bulking? But it seems you like a 5 day split for bulking as well? Perhaps a 5 day upper/Lower split would make a good compromise. Just wondering what people's philosophies are for recomping. I've alway's either been on deficit or a surplus, I've never tried the maintenance recomp, before so I'm not sure what kind of strategies make sense.
BTW Your routine is a whole lotta! Are you doing two a days? or something.
BTW, HRMs are NOT accurate for weightlifting. Google it for the proper answer as to why.
Ditto - if you want to give your tracker a chance at overall accuracy, and if syncing to MFP might as well use it well - you'll want to manually log your lifting workouts.
Small calorie burn compared to cardio, or the HR-based estimates - but that's true. But still meaningful too.
It seems that for HRM estimates, only steady state cardio appears accurate. I don't do boring workouts, so that's a non factor for me. higher intensity circuits/intervals, plyo metrics, strength / cardio combos, seem to be just as off as strength training would be. I look at the numbers from the HRM tracker just for comparison day to day. For me, it seems back day, dead lifts, pull ups, rows are what give me the higher cal numbers from a tracker, I'll get like 602 for 50mins. And yes I know they're inflated numbers. I'm sure there are plenty of tools out there that estimate cals from lifting using calculations only, but I wonder how accurate those would be for dynamic / non steady state cardio. It seems for maintenance that understanding your true calorie expenditure would be pretty important. Its kinda frustrating, when I feel I can't trust any of the information I get when it comes to work calories.
Very true that results trump estimates eventually.
But with other life changes moving the estimates, I always like to get decent on what can be done.
Like the MET's database that MFP, Fitbit, and many others use have info based on studies. You can review those studies and see what they were measuring, what type of workout, ect - and does it match what you are doing.
So some of the lifting studies was specific for lower body, and got one number, some whole body, some upper, some low reps, some higher, ect.
The average MET they pick is based on all those.
From looking at it few years back indepth, I saw the following from the studies.
Weight lifting is for sets and reps 5-15, rests 2-4 min.
Circuit training is for reps over 15, rests up to 1 min.
Calisthenics is for reps over 20, rests under 1 min.
Now, some overlap there of course, or need to understand what they measured, like if new to fitness and doing calisthenics type stuff, but can only pull off 15 reps in the 1 min timed session say instead of desired 30, well, it still wasn't weight lifting.
But generally, people have an idea of what they were attempting - like the so-called mis-named "HIIT" workouts are usually calisthenics that is only going to be done intense. So intervals wouldn't be correct category nor to be found.5 -
mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »Question to the group. Based on your experiences/experiments do you think its better to do high volume lifting with recomp or do you feel you get better results with mass gain lifting programs? Obviously it depends on how you balance your calories to make sure you aren't gaining or losing. But I just wonder f you guys/gals have experience with high volume lifting programs, where you tend to burn a lot more calories and are pretty great for cutting. On the other hand it seems the power lifting strength programs, like strong lifts, canditos, etc. are more to suited to bulking given the low calorie burn/ coupled with high intensity you can gain weight easier. Do you feel if there is any advantage to either style for fat burning when in recomp maintenance calorie mode? Or what is your philosophy here?
High volume programs are not really great for cutting. You can burn out. You would have better luck keeping the intensity on the bar for as long as you can and cutting volume first. Heavy compound lifts are going to help maintain muscle mass and help you get a bang for your buck.
When I'm in maintenance or bulking I do not like running strictly strength based programs. It makes more sense to isolate muscle groups when you have a better chance at muscle growth. I like a hybrid.
I do a kinda hybrid myself, I just happen to be on calorie deficit at the moment. I don't find that I lose my willpower and intensity. Also heavy compounds are a feature part of my routine, but I just add a lot volume lifts and isolation moves with little rest to burn out. FTR according to my tracker I burn more cals lifting than I do cardio. so. Not that I trust those all that much.. And like you mentioned I do 5 day splits focusing on specific muscle groups.
I was just wondering if doing 3 days of straight power lifting strength with with energy and rest going balls to the wall, and then allowing my muscles to grow and recover would add any benefit during a maintenance phase or is that best reserved for bulking? But it seems you like a 5 day split for bulking as well? Perhaps a 5 day upper/Lower split would make a good compromise. Just wondering what people's philosophies are for recomping. I've alway's either been on deficit or a surplus, I've never tried the maintenance recomp, before so I'm not sure what kind of strategies make sense.
BTW Your routine is a whole lotta! Are you doing two a days? or something.
BTW, HRMs are NOT accurate for weightlifting. Google it for the proper answer as to why.
Ditto - if you want to give your tracker a chance at overall accuracy, and if syncing to MFP might as well use it well - you'll want to manually log your lifting workouts.
Small calorie burn compared to cardio, or the HR-based estimates - but that's true. But still meaningful too.
It seems that for HRM estimates, only steady state cardio appears accurate. I don't do boring workouts, so that's a non factor for me. higher intensity circuits/intervals, plyo metrics, strength / cardio combos, seem to be just as off as strength training would be. I look at the numbers from the HRM tracker just for comparison day to day. For me, it seems back day, dead lifts, pull ups, rows are what give me the higher cal numbers from a tracker, I'll get like 602 for 50mins. And yes I know they're inflated numbers. I'm sure there are plenty of tools out there that estimate cals from lifting using calculations only, but I wonder how accurate those would be for dynamic / non steady state cardio. It seems for maintenance that understanding your true calorie expenditure would be pretty important. Its kinda frustrating, when I feel I can't trust any of the information I get when it comes to work calories.
Very true that results trump estimates eventually.
But with other life changes moving the estimates, I always like to get decent on what can be done.
Like the MET's database that MFP, Fitbit, and many others use have info based on studies. You can review those studies and see what they were measuring, what type of workout, ect - and does it match what you are doing.
So some of the lifting studies was specific for lower body, and got one number, some whole body, some upper, some low reps, some higher, ect.
The average MET they pick is based on all those.
From looking at it few years back indepth, I saw the following from the studies.
Weight lifting is for sets and reps 5-15, rests 2-4 min.
Circuit training is for reps over 15, rests up to 1 min.
Calisthenics is for reps over 20, rests under 1 min.
Now, some overlap there of course, or need to understand what they measured, like if new to fitness and doing calisthenics type stuff, but can only pull off 15 reps in the 1 min timed session say instead of desired 30, well, it still wasn't weight lifting.
But generally, people have an idea of what they were attempting - like the so-called mis-named "HIIT" workouts are usually calisthenics that is only going to be done intense. So intervals wouldn't be correct category nor to be found.
Interesting info, especially the classification based on reps. Thanks!0 -
CarvedTones wrote: »I am barely, and probably poorly (dumbbell routines I Googled), doing strength training now. Mostly I walk, in the 5 mile a day range lately. I want to get a tiny jiggle just above to waist to disappear and I want chest and shoulders a little more defined. I am not looking for massive changes.
@heybales mentions something important. TDEE is subject to change, I like to call TDEE a moving target based on changes in NEAT or EAT. That's why having a weight range is important. If you you become a little less active of course your calorie needs will change, etc..
If you have more body fat to lose, you can recomp with a small deficit. Start giving strength training a little more emphasis. And since massive changes are not the goal, I see no reason to not take your time and tread waters slowly. I think after you have had a longer period of time working on your maintenance goals the easier this will becomes. I know and understand doing the slower approach.
I think the little bit of fat I have left could be taken care of by recomp. I am actually still in deficit for a reason that is more psychological than anything else, but that doesn't make it less real. My goal is to stay below a BMI of 25. At my height of 5'8", that means 164 or less. Since I have been in maintenance, I have been bouncing around in the low 160s. Only once did I bounce over 164 and even then it was less than a pound, but that didn't keep me from going apechit, walking more and eating less for a few days. This morning I was 160.4, my lowest weight so far. I want to see high 150s on the low swings to make the likelihood of ever seeing a bounce above 164 again as low as possible.3 -
CarvedTones wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »I am barely, and probably poorly (dumbbell routines I Googled), doing strength training now. Mostly I walk, in the 5 mile a day range lately. I want to get a tiny jiggle just above to waist to disappear and I want chest and shoulders a little more defined. I am not looking for massive changes.
@heybales mentions something important. TDEE is subject to change, I like to call TDEE a moving target based on changes in NEAT or EAT. That's why having a weight range is important. If you you become a little less active of course your calorie needs will change, etc..
If you have more body fat to lose, you can recomp with a small deficit. Start giving strength training a little more emphasis. And since massive changes are not the goal, I see no reason to not take your time and tread waters slowly. I think after you have had a longer period of time working on your maintenance goals the easier this will becomes. I know and understand doing the slower approach.
I think the little bit of fat I have left could be taken care of by recomp. I am actually still in deficit for a reason that is more psychological than anything else, but that doesn't make it less real. My goal is to stay below a BMI of 25. At my height of 5'8", that means 164 or less. Since I have been in maintenance, I have been bouncing around in the low 160s. Only once did I bounce over 164 and even then it was less than a pound, but that didn't keep me from going apechit, walking more and eating less for a few days. This morning I was 160.4, my lowest weight so far. I want to see high 150s on the low swings to make the likelihood of ever seeing a bounce above 164 again as low as possible.
I know all of this can be frightful, letting things affect you from the aspect of walking exercising more/eating less on a day you fluctuate up is certainly added stress that influences these fluctuations as well.
I will say in my first couple of years of weight loss I reacted too, I tried to dial in every last calorie. But even then exercise calories for example are estimations. But what we can do is take our weight trend and calorie intake over 4 weeks and come up with our maintenance. Reversing from a deficit usually results in me losing a little more as my body responds positively to increase intake and balancing hormones again. I tried to overthink it, MFP taught me patience and trusting the process. I am now eating higher maintenance now than ever through building muscle and doing recomp for several years.
Give it some time, remember the scale is not an dictator of how you should respond to normal fluctuations especially when you know you are on point with everything your are doing.7 -
CarvedTones wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »I am barely, and probably poorly (dumbbell routines I Googled), doing strength training now. Mostly I walk, in the 5 mile a day range lately. I want to get a tiny jiggle just above to waist to disappear and I want chest and shoulders a little more defined. I am not looking for massive changes.
@heybales mentions something important. TDEE is subject to change, I like to call TDEE a moving target based on changes in NEAT or EAT. That's why having a weight range is important. If you you become a little less active of course your calorie needs will change, etc..
If you have more body fat to lose, you can recomp with a small deficit. Start giving strength training a little more emphasis. And since massive changes are not the goal, I see no reason to not take your time and tread waters slowly. I think after you have had a longer period of time working on your maintenance goals the easier this will becomes. I know and understand doing the slower approach.
I think the little bit of fat I have left could be taken care of by recomp. I am actually still in deficit for a reason that is more psychological than anything else, but that doesn't make it less real. My goal is to stay below a BMI of 25. At my height of 5'8", that means 164 or less. Since I have been in maintenance, I have been bouncing around in the low 160s. Only once did I bounce over 164 and even then it was less than a pound, but that didn't keep me from going apechit, walking more and eating less for a few days. This morning I was 160.4, my lowest weight so far. I want to see high 150s on the low swings to make the likelihood of ever seeing a bounce above 164 again as low as possible.
I know all of this can be frightful, letting things affect you from the aspect of walking exercising more/eating less on a day you fluctuate up is certainly added stress that influences these fluctuations as well.
I will say in my first couple of years of weight loss I reacted too, I tried to dial in every last calorie. But even then exercise calories for example are estimations. But what we can do is take our weight trend and calorie intake over 4 weeks and come up with our maintenance. Reversing from a deficit usually results in me losing a little more as my body responds positively to increase intake and balancing hormones again. I tried to overthink it, MFP taught me patience and trusting the process. I am now eating higher maintenance now than ever through building muscle and doing recomp for several years.
Give it some time, remember the scale is not an dictator of how you should respond to normal fluctuations especially when you know you are on point with everything your are doing.
I have maintained about a month, but bounced around on calories and exercise enough so that it is hard to get a clear picture. I could figure out total number of calories and steps tracked, ignoring the small amount of calories burned in my little bit of strength training, but even that isn't accurate. One day I discovered that fishing in a boat that was slow trolling through light chop had enough rhythmic motion to give me a couple of thousand steps.
I have had a number of yoyo failures in the past and I decided the way to safeguard against it was to be inflexible about the upper limit. If I want/need a bigger range to keep from hitting it, then I have to lose more instead of giving myself permission to gain more. In the past, every time I decided it was okay to have a bigger range I immediately went to the top of it. So if 164 is my hard limit, maybe I need 162 or even 160 as my soft limit.
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CarvedTones wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »I am barely, and probably poorly (dumbbell routines I Googled), doing strength training now. Mostly I walk, in the 5 mile a day range lately. I want to get a tiny jiggle just above to waist to disappear and I want chest and shoulders a little more defined. I am not looking for massive changes.
@heybales mentions something important. TDEE is subject to change, I like to call TDEE a moving target based on changes in NEAT or EAT. That's why having a weight range is important. If you you become a little less active of course your calorie needs will change, etc..
If you have more body fat to lose, you can recomp with a small deficit. Start giving strength training a little more emphasis. And since massive changes are not the goal, I see no reason to not take your time and tread waters slowly. I think after you have had a longer period of time working on your maintenance goals the easier this will becomes. I know and understand doing the slower approach.
I think the little bit of fat I have left could be taken care of by recomp. I am actually still in deficit for a reason that is more psychological than anything else, but that doesn't make it less real. My goal is to stay below a BMI of 25. At my height of 5'8", that means 164 or less. Since I have been in maintenance, I have been bouncing around in the low 160s. Only once did I bounce over 164 and even then it was less than a pound, but that didn't keep me from going apechit, walking more and eating less for a few days. This morning I was 160.4, my lowest weight so far. I want to see high 150s on the low swings to make the likelihood of ever seeing a bounce above 164 again as low as possible.
I know all of this can be frightful, letting things affect you from the aspect of walking exercising more/eating less on a day you fluctuate up is certainly added stress that influences these fluctuations as well.
I will say in my first couple of years of weight loss I reacted too, I tried to dial in every last calorie. But even then exercise calories for example are estimations. But what we can do is take our weight trend and calorie intake over 4 weeks and come up with our maintenance. Reversing from a deficit usually results in me losing a little more as my body responds positively to increase intake and balancing hormones again. I tried to overthink it, MFP taught me patience and trusting the process. I am now eating higher maintenance now than ever through building muscle and doing recomp for several years.
Give it some time, remember the scale is not an dictator of how you should respond to normal fluctuations especially when you know you are on point with everything your are doing.
I have maintained about a month, but bounced around on calories and exercise enough so that it is hard to get a clear picture. I could figure out total number of calories and steps tracked, ignoring the small amount of calories burned in my little bit of strength training, but even that isn't accurate. One day I discovered that fishing in a boat that was slow trolling through light chop had enough rhythmic motion to give me a couple of thousand steps.
I have had a number of yoyo failures in the past and I decided the way to safeguard against it was to be inflexible about the upper limit. If I want/need a bigger range to keep from hitting it, then I have to lose more instead of giving myself permission to gain more. In the past, every time I decided it was okay to have a bigger range I immediately went to the top of it. So if 164 is my hard limit, maybe I need 162 or even 160 as my soft limit.
But you do have the clear picture, you stated maintaining for about a month. That's pretty concrete and if the average weight during this month is too high then do need to cut further to give you a new range to work within that you are comfortable with.
Do you by change use a weight trending app by chance
And lol on the fishing rhythmic motion. Nice job on that arm work that day.0 -
I don't use a weight trending app. As I was losing, I was positive I was in deficit, so i just ignored anything but a new low. In the last month, I have been above 164 only once and that was by 0.6 pounds. Today's weight of 160.4 is the lowest I have seen. I am pretty steady at 162 and change most days. Today's bounce low was not all that unexpected as I have tried to put in more walking and faster/harder the last few days, only logging some of it for extra calories, trying to push the needle a little lower. I weigh every other day.3
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mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »Question to the group. Based on your experiences/experiments do you think its better to do high volume lifting with recomp or do you feel you get better results with mass gain lifting programs? Obviously it depends on how you balance your calories to make sure you aren't gaining or losing. But I just wonder f you guys/gals have experience with high volume lifting programs, where you tend to burn a lot more calories and are pretty great for cutting. On the other hand it seems the power lifting strength programs, like strong lifts, canditos, etc. are more to suited to bulking given the low calorie burn/ coupled with high intensity you can gain weight easier. Do you feel if there is any advantage to either style for fat burning when in recomp maintenance calorie mode? Or what is your philosophy here?
High volume programs are not really great for cutting. You can burn out. You would have better luck keeping the intensity on the bar for as long as you can and cutting volume first. Heavy compound lifts are going to help maintain muscle mass and help you get a bang for your buck.
When I'm in maintenance or bulking I do not like running strictly strength based programs. It makes more sense to isolate muscle groups when you have a better chance at muscle growth. I like a hybrid.
I do a kinda hybrid myself, I just happen to be on calorie deficit at the moment. I don't find that I lose my willpower and intensity. Also heavy compounds are a feature part of my routine, but I just add a lot volume lifts and isolation moves with little rest to burn out. FTR according to my tracker I burn more cals lifting than I do cardio. so. Not that I trust those all that much.. And like you mentioned I do 5 day splits focusing on specific muscle groups.
I was just wondering if doing 3 days of straight power lifting strength with with energy and rest going balls to the wall, and then allowing my muscles to grow and recover would add any benefit during a maintenance phase or is that best reserved for bulking? But it seems you like a 5 day split for bulking as well? Perhaps a 5 day upper/Lower split would make a good compromise. Just wondering what people's philosophies are for recomping. I've alway's either been on deficit or a surplus, I've never tried the maintenance recomp, before so I'm not sure what kind of strategies make sense.
BTW Your routine is a whole lotta! Are you doing two a days? or something.
You're hurting my brain.
BTW, HRMs are NOT accurate for weightlifting. Google it for the proper answer as to why.
I don't know what "energy and rest going balls to the wall" means.
The best program for recomp his one you will do, that has a progressive overload, that hits each muscle group twice per week. How you get your progressive overload is up to you.
No, I don't do two-a days.
Lol. Sorry for making your brain hurt. I missed a couple words when I typed that line, hopefully it makes more sense now. I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on low volume near max type strength training vs high volume dynamic sets when maintaining body weight, and you seem to be in favor of high volume with few rest days.
It's up to your training preference. You can maintain your body weight doing any style. You can gain muscle with strength training and obviously with high volume hypertrophy training. Do what you like best.2 -
mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »Question to the group. Based on your experiences/experiments do you think its better to do high volume lifting with recomp or do you feel you get better results with mass gain lifting programs? Obviously it depends on how you balance your calories to make sure you aren't gaining or losing. But I just wonder f you guys/gals have experience with high volume lifting programs, where you tend to burn a lot more calories and are pretty great for cutting. On the other hand it seems the power lifting strength programs, like strong lifts, canditos, etc. are more to suited to bulking given the low calorie burn/ coupled with high intensity you can gain weight easier. Do you feel if there is any advantage to either style for fat burning when in recomp maintenance calorie mode? Or what is your philosophy here?
High volume programs are not really great for cutting. You can burn out. You would have better luck keeping the intensity on the bar for as long as you can and cutting volume first. Heavy compound lifts are going to help maintain muscle mass and help you get a bang for your buck.
When I'm in maintenance or bulking I do not like running strictly strength based programs. It makes more sense to isolate muscle groups when you have a better chance at muscle growth. I like a hybrid.
I do a kinda hybrid myself, I just happen to be on calorie deficit at the moment. I don't find that I lose my willpower and intensity. Also heavy compounds are a feature part of my routine, but I just add a lot volume lifts and isolation moves with little rest to burn out. FTR according to my tracker I burn more cals lifting than I do cardio. so. Not that I trust those all that much.. And like you mentioned I do 5 day splits focusing on specific muscle groups.
I was just wondering if doing 3 days of straight power lifting strength with with energy and rest going balls to the wall, and then allowing my muscles to grow and recover would add any benefit during a maintenance phase or is that best reserved for bulking? But it seems you like a 5 day split for bulking as well? Perhaps a 5 day upper/Lower split would make a good compromise. Just wondering what people's philosophies are for recomping. I've alway's either been on deficit or a surplus, I've never tried the maintenance recomp, before so I'm not sure what kind of strategies make sense.
BTW Your routine is a whole lotta! Are you doing two a days? or something.
You're hurting my brain.
BTW, HRMs are NOT accurate for weightlifting. Google it for the proper answer as to why.
I don't know what "energy and rest going balls to the wall" means.
The best program for recomp his one you will do, that has a progressive overload, that hits each muscle group twice per week. How you get your progressive overload is up to you.
No, I don't do two-a days.
Lol. Sorry for making your brain hurt. I missed a couple words when I typed that line, hopefully it makes more sense now. I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on low volume near max type strength training vs high volume dynamic sets when maintaining body weight, and you seem to be in favor of high volume with few rest days.
It's up to your training preference. You can maintain your body weight doing any style. You can gain muscle with strength training and obviously with high volume hypertrophy training. Do what you like best.
I like to mix it up to challenge my body by changing routines every other month or so. I've been doing a lot high volume hypertrophy the last 2 month with some total body circuits and cardio routines thrown in. Just looking to change it up. Honestly, I kinda fear the low volume high intensity training because of all the rest days, I'm afraid of the not burning the extra calories every day, that said building some strength right now sounds appealing.0 -
Something interesting I noticed last night. I was trying to figure a good way to objectively measure the little bit of fat I have around the abdomen. I am pretty sure there is less than when I started maintenance a month ago. For the last month, exercise has been walking, but I mean walking a lot - like 4+ (about 9 on my biggest day) miles at a brisk 3+ mph pace. So I think I have recomped a little of the fat to my legs.0
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CarvedTones wrote: »Something interesting I noticed last night. I was trying to figure a good way to objectively measure the little bit of fat I have around the abdomen. I am pretty sure there is less than when I started maintenance a month ago. For the last month, exercise has been walking, but I mean walking a lot - like 4+ (about 9 on my biggest day) miles at a brisk 3+ mph pace. So I think I have recomped a little of the fat to my legs.
One suggestion - buy a set of calipers such as Accu-Measure, Slim Guide, etc. and take skinfold measurements. Even though it's not an optimal method of measuring actual body fat percentage in terms of accuracy, it can objectively measure the skinfold thickness (if you're consistent with the measuring site). If it's 10mm when you measure it this month, 8mm when you measure it next month and 6mm when you measure it the third month, you have a reasonably objective method of saying you've made progress.4 -
@heybales mentions something important. TDEE is subject to change, I like to call TDEE a moving target based on changes in NEAT or EAT. That's why having a weight range is important. If you you become a little less active of course your calorie needs will change, etc..
Wanted to provide some personal observations on this; I've used a TDEE spreadsheet I found linked the r/fitness wiki since mid July of last year. It calculates TDEE on a weekly average basis of weight fluctuations and calorie counting. I'm meticulous about my logging/weighing food and weighing myself every morning. Over the 38 consecutive weeks I've been using this sheet my TDEE has ranged 2240-2550 calories. However, a five-data-point, centered, moving average stays very consistent at 2400, +/- 45 cal.
0 -
@heybales mentions something important. TDEE is subject to change, I like to call TDEE a moving target based on changes in NEAT or EAT. That's why having a weight range is important. If you you become a little less active of course your calorie needs will change, etc..
Wanted to provide some personal observations on this; I've used a TDEE spreadsheet I found linked the r/fitness wiki since mid July of last year. It calculates TDEE on a weekly average basis of weight fluctuations and calorie counting. I'm meticulous about my logging/weighing food and weighing myself every morning. Over the 38 consecutive weeks I've been using this sheet my TDEE has ranged 2240-2550 calories. However, a five-data-point, centered, moving average stays very consistent at 2400, +/- 45 cal.
Are you a moderate and/or very consistent exerciser?
My exercise is enormously varied so my daily TDEE range is c. 2200 - 6500 (that's exceptional for me by the way!).
My weekly average TDEE also varies a lot by the season, to allow for that I probably have a wider weight range over the course of a year then most people too.0 -
I was wondering if im at a good place to start recomping? Ive lost 19 kg and am currently at 66kg at 173 cm. 3 people in real life have said i shouldnt lose more weight so that is what made me think about going into recomp instead. What do you think?
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andreascjonsson wrote: »I was wondering if im at a good place to start recomping? Ive lost 19 kg and am currently at 66kg at 173 cm. 3 people in real life have said i shouldnt lose more weight so that is what made me think about going into recomp instead. What do you think?
Now is good. You look great. Eat and train!3 -
andreascjonsson wrote: »I was wondering if im at a good place to start recomping? Ive lost 19 kg and am currently at 66kg at 173 cm. 3 people in real life have said i shouldnt lose more weight so that is what made me think about going into recomp instead. What do you think?
Congrats on the 19kg loss! A second vote for recomp!
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andreascjonsson wrote: »I was wondering if im at a good place to start recomping? Ive lost 19 kg and am currently at 66kg at 173 cm. 3 people in real life have said i shouldnt lose more weight so that is what made me think about going into recomp instead. What do you think?
Congrats on the 19kg loss! A second vote for recomp!
Ye ive made up my mind to recomp, going to do a week of losing 0.25 first and then go up to maintenance calories, becouse ive been eathing at 0.5 for a long time so i just kinda want to ease into it. Thanks for the feedback!5 -
andreascjonsson wrote: »I was wondering if im at a good place to start recomping? Ive lost 19 kg and am currently at 66kg at 173 cm. 3 people in real life have said i shouldnt lose more weight so that is what made me think about going into recomp instead. What do you think?
Yes! You look good, congrats!0 -
I think I’ve made the decision to start eating at maintenance. I do have a bit of fat that I want to go away but I’m at a healthy weight and look pretty ok how I am now in my opinion, plus I’ve been having a hard time staying within my calorie goal lately for whatever reason. I will just get over the fact that my belly fat will probably stick around for a while longer lol.4
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I think I’ve made the decision to start eating at maintenance. I do have a bit of fat that I want to go away but I’m at a healthy weight and look pretty ok how I am now in my opinion, plus I’ve been having a hard time staying within my calorie goal lately for whatever reason. I will just get over the fact that my belly fat will probably stick around for a while longer lol.
I've been doing the same. I just can't cut. My body has changed drastically at maintenance though.4 -
I'm sorry I did not read EVERY reply cos it's a lot, I have been re-comp since January, in that time I've lost 6 lbs, it may feel slow to some people but the deficit is super easy for me to maintain, since it's only 300 - calories from maintenance, I work out from Monday to Friday, sometimes on Saturday, weight lifting, steady cardio and some HIIT plus walking around, so I love, love recomp and I recommend it to anyone who wants to try it and has not a mad hurry.
Plus, the weight comes off "slow" but what is left is looking good, I think I'll be at my goal in 2 more months3
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