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City of Davis to institute new ordinance on soda "ban" with kid's meals
Replies
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Packerjohn wrote: »
Talk to someone who works in the auto industry about what happens to sales of pick ups and large SUVs vs small cars when the price of gas is over $4 a gallon vs $2.50.
Best selling vehicle in the US in 2007 - when oil was moonshooting to $140/barrel - was the F-150 pickup truck.
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Packerjohn wrote: »
Do you pay taxes? If you don't know, government pays over 50% of the health care costs in the US.
Did you know that increasing tobacco taxes has had the net effect of increasing overall lifetime gov't expenditures?
If fiscal realities are top of mind for you, you should be asking for the opposite - subsidize the worst food choices, because the cost of the subsidy in the early stages of life will be more than paid for the declines in the amount of social security and medicare paid out at the end of life.
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A better question would be is "what makes certain drugs illegal, and who's fault is it?" that should answer the question. Of course there is personal responsibility in all this, but there is also people who have some serious problems. MOST Americans are over weight, so most people have a problem.
that's actually irrelevant to this conversation. We aren't talking about drug laws.
You agreed with me that it's the individual who makes the choice what to eat and whether or not to continue eating in excess. But then you say things that blame others for their choices.
It can't be both. The only person that controls what you consume is you, regardless of how good something tastes. Unless you have proof that something proven to be addicting is being added to certain foods.
Simply stating that most Americans are over weight and therefore have a problem doesn't prove that the food industry is causing it, it shows that most people either lack the willpower to control what they eat or don't have the proper education to know they shouldn't eat in excess.0 -
Please link a legitimate source that confirms this. I for one would love to see verification.angelexperiment wrote: »It is a fact that most west virginians drink mt. Dew.
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Jaxxie1181 wrote: »
Corporations know how to market. Do they directly control the consumer's actions? Of course not, but they have a heavy influence on consumers and know how to get to them - through the kids. Corporations have a lot more power than you are giving them credit for. They invest millions in lobbyists to lobby before congress for their own ends. They grease the palms of politicians. They have the best attorneys money can buy to insure the consumer has absolutely no legal recourse.
Exactly. Marketers and psychologists are paid to specifically target ads to hit kids right in the sweet spot, using their knowledge of child development.
http://mediasmarts.ca/marketing-consumerism/how-marketers-target-kids
It's not a level playing field by any means.0 -
Did you know that increasing tobacco taxes has had the net effect of increasing overall lifetime gov't expenditures?
If fiscal realities are top of mind for you, you should be asking for the opposite - subsidize the worst food choices, because the cost of the subsidy in the early stages of life will be more than paid for the declines in the amount of social security and medicare paid out at the end of life.
Oh yeah, I've heard stuff along those lines. Actuaries like smokers, for example, because they tend to die off before they can suck up too many resources.0 -
don't have any legitimate source but must say that my god they do consume a lot of mt. Dew there, but hey that is just my personal observation.
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Lol, one of "thinnest" times of anyone's lives is when they were a kid. Part of the reason why is because HAVE to be told to eat. They usually won't eat on a timed basis (unless it's a school setting where there's say snack and lunch time), they eat when they are hungry. A hungry kid will usually whine about ANYTHING they eat that's good for them. Now maybe some may consider me a bad parent, but if my daughter doesn't eat the breakfast/dinner that I make for her, she'll probably go hungry. I'm NOT going to break down and go by her a snack pack because it's a commercial she's seen on TV and then begs for it at meal time. Do I deprive her of fun snacks? No. But she doesn't get to have it over a nutritious meal.
Exactly. Marketers and psychologists are paid to specifically target ads to hit kids right in the sweet spot, using their knowledge of child development.
http://mediasmarts.ca/marketing-consumerism/how-marketers-target-kids
It's not a level playing field by any means.
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IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Lol, one of "thinnest" times of anyone's lives is when they were a kid. Part of the reason why is because HAVE to be told to eat. They usually won't eat on a timed basis (unless it's a school setting where there's say snack and lunch time), they eat when they are hungry. A hungry kid will usually whine about ANYTHING they eat that's good for them. Now maybe some may consider me a bad parent, but if my daughter doesn't eat the breakfast/dinner that I make for her, she'll probably go hungry. I'm NOT going to break down and go by her a snack pack because it's a commercial she's seen on TV and then begs for it at meal time. Do I deprive her of fun snacks? No. But she doesn't get to have it over a nutritious meal.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I guess i'd like your opinion then on what you'd do to solve the obesity crisis.
I think it's safe to say right now that while the responsibility SHOULD lie on the parent, most aren't doing a very good job. Even with their own bodies. They are just breeding more and more obese, raising obese, who are raising obese, and the cycle goes on and on and on.
And now there's even "fat activists" purporting things like "Healthy At Every Size" and claiming "hate crimes" for being told their children are overweight.
Does the government step in? Whose responsibility is it when we have more and more obese (even morbidly so) that are causing drain on society? Do we just let them all die from the beetus?
I am genuinely curious on what you think needs to be done since you seem opposed to their current proposed method and the current methods we're using as a society seem to not be working.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »
I guess i'd like your opinion then on what you'd do to solve the obesity crisis.
I think it's safe to say right now that while the responsibility SHOULD lie on the parent, most aren't doing a very good job. Even with their own bodies. They are just breeding more and more obese, raising obese, who are raising obese, and the cycle goes on and on and on.
And now there's even "fat activists" purporting things like "Healthy At Every Size" and claiming "hate crimes" for being told their children are overweight.
Does the government step in? Whose responsibility is it when we have more and more obese (even morbidly so) that are causing drain on society? Do we just let them all die from the beetus?
I am genuinely curious on what you think needs to be done since you seem opposed to their current proposed method and the current methods we're using as a society seem to not be working.
Based on the vast majority of posts here, people either choose not to, or are incapable of learning and adapting. Remove one evil (soda), and it will just be replaced by another (Starbucks), until people can learn what, truly, the problem is. Weight based medical copays? Hit em in the bank account? Reduction in child tax credits to parents of overweight kids? Maybe nothing need be done, and let natural selection run its course?0 -
Lol, one of "thinnest" times of anyone's lives is when they were a kid.
Maybe for your generation and mine. Do you have stats for the current crop of kids?
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Packerjohn wrote: »
Do you pay taxes? If you don't know, government pays over 50% of the health care costs in the US. Chances are pretty good that when little Johnny or Janie develops becomes diabetic, with a bunch of pop being a significantly contributing factor you're going to be paying for the health care costs.
You good with that?
so you are justifying this bad law by pointing to an even more horrible law that takes money from one group of people and then uses it - unconstitutionally IMO - to subsidize health care for another group?
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A better question would be is "what makes certain drugs illegal, and who's fault is it?" that should answer the question. Of course there is personal responsibility in all this, but there is also people who have some serious problems. MOST Americans are over weight, so most people have a problem.
yea, with overeating.
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Education. The reason people who are financially independent or rich is because they educated themselves on how to use finances and money correctly. That's about 1% of the US population. They don't teach financial education (economics) anymore in schools. If you want to become smart with money, you end up going out and learning it yourself.rainbowbow wrote: »
I guess i'd like your opinion then on what you'd do to solve the obesity crisis.
I think it's safe to say right now that while the responsibility SHOULD lie on the parent, most aren't doing a very good job. Even with their own bodies. They are just breeding more and more obese, raising obese, who are raising obese, and the cycle goes on and on and on.
And now there's even "fat activists" purporting things like "Healthy At Every Size" and claiming "hate crimes" for being told their children are overweight.
Does the government step in? Whose responsibility is it when we have more and more obese (even morbidly so) that are causing drain on society? Do we just let them all die from the beetus?
I am genuinely curious on what you think needs to be done since you seem opposed to their current proposed method and the current methods we're using as a society seem to not be working.
Same with nutritional classes. I had them in school growing up in the 70's along with mandatory PE classes. Kids today have NO IDEA what's good for them or why. And parents who are in their 20's don't either because those same education classes were more than likely disbanded when they were in school. Unless we as people going out independently to educate ourselves on health/nutrition, then we as a society are just stuck with unknowledgable people just eating whatever is the most convenience to us.
Will it reach everyone? No, but today's people know that being overweight/obese is a bad thing. If they KNOW that, then why aren't they able to avoid it? Because like most of my clients, they weren't taught like I was growing up that a surplus of calories well over what you need (which for many is just one calorie dense meal), would only take a short time to translate to a good amount of weight gain. We were tested on nutritional value of foods and yes CANDY, SODA and SUGAR were all discussed. Today the conversation in a classroom is "don't eat too much sugar because it's bad for your teeth" and that's about it. You have to tell kids to brush their teeth as a parent, so why do you think that saying something like that would automatically be enough to dissuade a kid to stop eating sugar?
What if learning about how to eat correctly was a class curriculum? Don't you think that'd have a bigger impact? And it would cost much less doing that, then just HOPING that banning sugar will deter people from wanting to consume it?
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That's the thing. They are overeating. Obviously not just too many calories from soda but total calories. I don't agree with this law, but i'll ask you the same i asked niner above.
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rainbowbow wrote: »
That's the thing. They are overeating. Obviously not just too many calories from soda but total calories. I don't agree with this law, but i'll ask you the same i asked niner above.
what is the question?
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what is the question?
I guess i'd like your opinion then on what you'd do to solve the obesity crisis.
I think it's safe to say right now that while the responsibility SHOULD lie on the parent, most aren't doing a very good job. Even with their own bodies. They are just breeding more and more obese, raising obese, who are raising obese, and the cycle goes on and on and on.
And now there's even "fat activists" purporting things like "Healthy At Every Size" and claiming "hate crimes" for being told their children are overweight.
Does the government step in? Whose responsibility is it when we have more and more obese (even morbidly so) that are causing drain on society? Do we just let them all die from the beetus?
I am genuinely curious on what you think needs to be done since you seem opposed to their current proposed method and the current methods we're using as a society seem to not be working.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »
I guess i'd like your opinion then on what you'd do to solve the obesity crisis.
Nothing. It will solve itself over time.
The vast majority of obese people didn't get that way by eating an extra 1000 calories a day, they got that way by eating an extra half a snickers bar a day, for 5+ years. So the notion that a big chunk of the population is eating stupid amounts of stupid food all the time isn't based in reality.
Until people have a meaningful and immediate reason to not carry extra weight, there's nothing to be done.
If the gov't should mandate anything, it's daily physical exercise in the work place. Good luck with that in "'Murica!".
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what is the question?
I see it now..
how to stop the obesity epidemic. Good question.
I don't believe in top down, one size fits all government solutions. I really think that it is going to have to come from local communities educating people about what causes obesity, what the risk factors are, etc. I think also educating people about physical activity and that you don't have to run ten miles to be "healthy" but if you just eat a little better and walk a little bit that you can be at a healthy weight. I mean no everyone has a goal of being shredded or having minimal body fat.
If you ban or restrict soda, then people will just move on and make up the soda calorie with fried chicken calories; ban the fried chicken, they will move onto cookies, and so on and so on.
However, in a free society you can't really force people to eat a certain way or be active. If someone wants to do zero exercise and overeat on X amount of food all day then you really can't tell that person "no, you have to eat 2000 calories a day and that is it." I think where we get into a problem is that this bad behavior is subsidized because if you are obese and end up sick then you can go and apply for government assistance to through medicare/medicaid, etc, and yes you can get medical care, but that does not address the non active, overeating problem that is leading to the sickness.
So my answer to your question, is that there really is no easy answer. Now if this was communist china we could just put everyone in labor camps and they would be active and thin, but they would have zero freedom …LOL
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I see it now..
how to stop the obesity epidemic. Good question.
I don't believe in top down, one size fits all government solutions. I really think that it is going to have to come from local communities educating people about what causes obesity, what the risk factors are, etc. I think also educating people about physical activity and that you don't have to run ten miles to be "healthy" but if you just eat a little better and walk a little bit that you can be at a healthy weight. I mean no everyone has a goal of being shredded or having minimal body fat.
If you ban or restrict soda, then people will just move on and make up the soda calorie with fried chicken calories; ban the fried chicken, they will move onto cookies, and so on and so on.
However, in a free society you can't really force people to eat a certain way or be active. If someone wants to do zero exercise and overeat on X amount of food all day then you really can't tell that person "no, you have to eat 2000 calories a day and that is it." I think where we get into a problem is that this bad behavior is subsidized because if you are obese and end up sick then you can go and apply for government assistance to through medicare/medicaid, etc, and yes you can get medical care, but that does not address the non active, overeating problem that is leading to the sickness.
So my answer to your question, is that there really is no easy answer. Now if this was communist china we could just put everyone in labor camps and they would be active and thin, but they would have zero freedom …LOL
^^^If only the rest of the world thought this way...0 -
This law isn't telling parents how to parent - if you want to provide your kid soda at a fast food place, you're still free to do so. This is a law telling businesses what products they can offer in meals marketed to kids.0
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No, but today's people know that being overweight/obese is a bad thing. If they KNOW that, then why aren't they able to avoid it?
What if learning about how to eat correctly was a class curriculum?
Here's my views on your first assumption. I'd like to point out that sometime in the past 20 years overweight stopped being synonymous with "unhealthy". Despite the overwhelming evidence that being overweight and even obese has ill effects on health, as the population grows even larger (and seemingly more sensitive to weight) the media presence overall tends to float towards the "body acceptance" movement. Each and every day I see more and more "curvy" "effyourbeautystandards" nonsense.
I'd implore you to explore the following:
http://www.haescommunity.org/
http://www.reddit.com/r/BodyAcceptance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_acceptance_movement
http://redefiningbodyimage.tumblr.com/post/17770763679/big-fat-list-of-myth-defying-health-resources
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/articles-evidence/
http://bigliberty.net/
etc.
People are now being encouraged to "embrace their curves", and that somehow weight doesn't have any correlation with health. You can be "healthy" at any size!
As far as education is concerned, i agree wholeheartedly, however, I have to wonder how that would even begin to be implemented. It seems as if schools who DO try and offer nutritional information (based on fact) are being bombarded with lawsuits by said people above for being a "nanny" or by companies/figures with an interest in business which have some sort of "all carbs are evil" "sugar is the problem" "no you're eating too much fat" "The type of fat you're eating is the real problem" and so forth.
http://healthyenough.net/calorie-counting/
http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/
Even for suggesting material on calories in/calories out is being debated by these people.
At some point I have to ask, do these people just not CARE about their size? Do they just not CARE about their health? Why do they CHOOSE to do this even when presented with the truth?
I dont know. I think something better needs to be addressed here. How many people think feeding their children a lunch of cheetos, oreos, and a big gulp soda is perfectly fine? I'd say far too many. And it's them (and us) who pay the price.
If education is implemented, will that solve the obesity crisis? I don't know. I still think many would choose to follow the path of the glutton...0 -
I believe education on nutrition is the only thing that could address the issue. I do feel many people really don't understand how their body works. They only know they are overweight but likely everyone they know is as well. Ive seen organizations trying to implement community education programs for health and fitness. I do feel there is difficulty in reaching large groups of people in dense urban populations as it would take a large amount of time and resources.
The best way would be childhood education, as we know there are whole marketing schemes targeted towards children, so we know there is a good place to start. It would however take generations likely to really have an impact.
Also some don't really care that they are obese and have resigned themselves to the fact they may not live long. That is there choice.
I also believe that not everything on this planet is something that needs to be "solved" and large government bodies need to stop worrying about the details of our day to day lives.0 -
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Well I would think people think that way because it's all they know. I mean take a phone away from the average teen today and what do you think would happen? IMO, they'd probably freak out so bad because they don't know HOW to live without their phone. Social media today takes up a lot of their time.rainbowbow wrote: »
Here's my views on your first assumption. I'd like to point out that sometime in the past 20 years overweight stopped being synonymous with "unhealthy". Despite the overwhelming evidence that being overweight and even obese has ill effects on health, as the population grows even larger (and seemingly more sensitive to weight) the media presence overall tends to float towards the "body acceptance" movement. Each and every day I see more and more "curvy" "effyourbeautystandards" nonsense.
I'd implore you to explore the following:
http://www.haescommunity.org/
http://www.reddit.com/r/BodyAcceptance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_acceptance_movement
http://redefiningbodyimage.tumblr.com/post/17770763679/big-fat-list-of-myth-defying-health-resources
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/articles-evidence/
http://bigliberty.net/
etc.
People are now being encouraged to "embrace their curves", and that somehow weight doesn't have any correlation with health. You can be "healthy" at any size!
As far as education is concerned, i agree wholeheartedly, however, I have to wonder how that would even begin to be implemented. It seems as if schools who DO try and offer nutritional information (based on fact) are being bombarded with lawsuits by said people above for being a "nanny" or by companies/figures with an interest in business which have some sort of "all carbs are evil" "sugar is the problem" "no you're eating too much fat" "The type of fat you're eating is the real problem" and so forth.
http://healthyenough.net/calorie-counting/
http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/
Even for suggesting material on calories in/calories out is being debated by these people.
At some point I have to ask, do these people just not CARE about their size? Do they just not CARE about their health? Why do they CHOOSE to do this even when presented with the truth?
I dont know. I think something better needs to be addressed here. How many people think feeding their children a lunch of cheetos, oreos, and a big gulp soda is perfectly fine? I'd say far too many. And it's them (and us) who pay the price.
If education is implemented, will that solve the obesity crisis? I don't know. I still think many would choose to follow the path of the glutton...
Take those same teens and teach them a program on how to interact with others at social gatherings, clubs, cheerleading, football, science club, going to the library, etc. BEFORE getting them a phone, and these kids probably would be fine finding a way to do without a phone.
I have a TV. I have a computer. They DON'T dominate my life because I've learned things to do outside of what they offer. I love the gym, I like walking, I spend time outside with my daughter.
There are lots and lots of adults who can't say the same because they either don't know, or weren't exposed positively to the benefits.
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IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Well I would think people think that way because it's all they know. I mean take a phone away from the average teen today and what do you think would happen? IMO, they'd probably freak out so bad because they don't know HOW to live without their phone. Social media today takes up a lot of their time.
Take those same teens and teach them a program on how to interact with others at social gatherings, clubs, cheerleading, football, science club, going to the library, etc. BEFORE getting them a phone, and these kids probably would be fine finding a way to do without a phone.
I have a TV. I have a computer. They DON'T dominate my life because I've learned things to do outside of what they offer. I love the gym, I like walking, I spend time outside with my daughter.
There are lots and lots of adults who can't say the same because they either don't know, or weren't exposed positively to the benefits.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Agreed. But i guess my point would be that there needs to be an overall shift in society's views regarding obesity, weight, and health. And with all of the social media campaigns, multimillion dollar "diet industry", and so on I don't see that happening any time soon.
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Hopefully the water shortage doesn't muck with Davis' plans; otherwise milk will the the stand alone default.
ETA, I lived in that goofy state for years. Land of 'believe as I do or else'.0 -
They don't bring water with your drink. You sit down, water is either already on the table, or is brought immediately. Later, you're asked if you want to order a drink.
So, yes, the only difference is that in the US you're asked if you want to order something other than water. Unless the Japanese are ignorant of other available drink choices, I don't think that's the relevant issue. More likely, the Japanese are accustomed to drinking water regularly, or the other drinks are much more expensive than they are in the US. Or, maybe their water generally tastes better. Plenty of areas in the US have water that tastes awful.
I literally said they don't bring water with your drink.
Many places (except fast food) don't ask for drinks. They expect you to drink water. They have sodas everywhere in vending machines there but you don't generally drink it with meals.
People have the unhealthy habit of chugging down beverages at meals without realizing how much they are taking in.0 -
People usually won't address a problem until it becomes of importance to them regardless. They don't save money until they lose their job, they don't stop speeding until they get a notice that if they get caught again they lose their privileges, they don't change their eating habits or try to lose weight until their life is actually in danger.rainbowbow wrote: »
Agreed. But i guess my point would be that there needs to be an overall shift in society's views regarding obesity, weight, and health. And with all of the social media campaigns, multimillion dollar "diet industry", and so on I don't see that happening any time soon.
Unfortunately that's how it usually is in today's world. Until it totally affects them, people turn a blind eye.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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