Weight loss flow chart... 2.0!
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It is awesome! My only complaint is you spelled "medication" wrong in the lowest blue box - it says "metication".
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@Pu_239Here is a more complete version. It also addresses the issue where people's TDEE is lower than estimated and they're doing everything right, in this case they wouldn't be losing weight either. Also addresses the issue of having realistic expectations for weight loss and a reasonable calorie deficit.
The OP started a thread. He/She already stated that he/she will edit the chart during the weekend due to lack of time. If you want to make a chart of your own to link on forums you should make a blog post or another thread while mentioning the OP. Otherwise give ideas to the OP and he/she will judge if the additions that you want are essential.if you or anyone else has suggestions on wording/typos message me.
While you are trying to be helpful most likely it seems like you are trying to prove that your chart is better and somewhat take "credits" for it which ends up being rude towards the OP.
I felt the chart was lacking something, she posted hers, I gave her feed back. She didn't agree, so I made my own. Look at what's happening. Mr_knight posted his before I posted mine. Why am I the only one being singled out? Mr_knight got feed back on his chart, he had a minor discussion about it. I got feed back on mine. I replied to it. Just as Mr_knight replied to his feed back. Yet I am the one who is being singled out? I am being flame-baited/trolled at the moment. The only reason I am really replying to you(you're doing the same thing) so people can get the message of what they're doing. That's why i am ignoring some of the posts. I will not take the bait. I ignored a few people but they keep on replying. Maybe they will get the hint.
Last night a lean girl was in a supposed deficit of 300-500 cals a day. She wanted to lose 4lbs. She logged accurately, and wasn't losing weight. Her issue wouldn't have been address on the OP's flow chart. Why? Because she was eating too much. That small deficit, is highly error prone, her activity tracker isn't 100% accurate, food labels can be off by 5-10%, plus no one is going to be 100% perfect with logging, there is error in that too. Showed her my flow chart, she realized she was eating too much. Once again it's not about "who's is better" it's about helping people achieve their goals. The flow chart should be complete. (who's ever flow chart is being used)
The flow chart is a good idea, as I told the OP. I have nothing against her, or anything. You're right she does deserve credit. I will update it with the error corrections and put something along the lines of "Original idea by _____"(forgot her user name) on the flow chart.
no, because you started arguing with OP about calorie intakes and then you got smacked down you proceeded to create your own flow chart to one up the OP and hijack her thread.
mr knight just took her chart and reformatted it into an easier view..
you took the idea and created your own to one up the OP = hijacking, which is against forum rules.
just stop trying to make every thread about you and you wont get into these arguments.
Pleas start your own thread with your own flow chart.
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Well if that's why you think i replied to you then you got it all wrong. I was trying to point out in a polite way, that it was rude towards the OP. And maybe change the way that the topic is going.. Seems i didn't do much since you are replying in a defensive way.I am being flame-baited/trolled at the moment. The only reason I am really replying to you(you're doing the same thing) so people can get the message of what they're doing.
I am off.. Feel free to continue arguing with each other.. Pretty sure that's what the OP wanted when she made the thread...0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »It's like going on a trip. Do you identify first where are we going and how are we getting there?
Mostly not, usually.Or do you wander about in the desert for a while?
Yes. For me vacations are about discovery, and that means minimal planning. Many do the same - many do differently.
If you prefer an alternate flow - I'm totally cool with you making your own version and putting diamonds wherever you like. :drinker:
Uh huh. So you leave home without even knowing where the airport, coffee shop or even the road is. Otay. Good luck with that. :huh:
Mostly, yes. Why I would look up and store that stuff ahead of time when I know Google will tell me what I need to know, when I need to know it?But thanks for the permission.
You're welcome! :drinker:
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Mostly, yes. Why I would look up and store that stuff ahead of time when I know Google will tell me what I need to know, when I need to know it?
I use paper maps when I need them, and I like to get lost on purpose. Most of the time, Google isn't all that useful when I travel internationally, 'cause I usually don't have a data plan and up until last year I never owned a smartphone.
When you look up from your screen and see what's in front of you, that's when you truly have a good time during travel.0 -
Me too. Best way to experience the unexpected. And its so easy now, because you know that pretty much anywhere you are where there are people, you'll always be able to find your way back.
:drinker:
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I knew there was going to be a lot of typos. You know how when you type and spell check makes a squiggly red line under the misspelled word? Notice how all those boxes are in red? I couldn't see the typos.
What I mean by a reasonable calorie deficit is compared to a TDEE calculator. For example. I just checked mine according to IIFYM.com. Mine is 2,640. If I am out there burning 1000 calories a day doing cardio, with a 900 cal deficit from diet and I am not getting results. Then follow the chart. Total theoretical deficit is 1.900, which is unreasonable for most people. Maybe it should say, "Is your diet and/or exercise combined producing a reasonable calorie deficit according to estimated TDEE?" if you or anyone else has suggestions on wording/typos message me.
That makes sense. Perhaps include the IIFYM url too if there's space.0 -
@Pu_239Here is a more complete version. It also addresses the issue where people's TDEE is lower than estimated and they're doing everything right, in this case they wouldn't be losing weight either. Also addresses the issue of having realistic expectations for weight loss and a reasonable calorie deficit.
The OP started a thread. He/She already stated that he/she will edit the chart during the weekend due to lack of time. If you want to make a chart of your own to link on forums you should make a blog post or another thread while mentioning the OP. Otherwise give ideas to the OP and he/she will judge if the additions that you want are essential.if you or anyone else has suggestions on wording/typos message me.
While you are trying to be helpful most likely it seems like you are trying to prove that your chart is better and somewhat take "credits" for it which ends up being rude towards the OP.
Actually if you read all the posts you'll see that OP invited anyone with better design software/skills to make their own version of the chart. She also stated that she had tried to think of a way to "include people who maybe lost a few pounds at first and then stalled" without overcomplicating things... which the alternative version covers. I think the goal is that everyone puts their heads together and collaborates to get the best possible chart, is it not...?
[edit] Everybody's name who contributed could go on it, if people feel it's that important (?)... personally I think that's a bit like being back in grade school, but whatever...
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The chart is almost excellent ( to me) I really think that it must have. Do you weigh ALL your food on a food scale and dont go by serving sizes or cups and spoons.
People all answer YES when you ask them do you weigh everything on a food scale. And when you ask further...they dont.....
They all think i use cups and spoons and serving sizes so i weigh accuratly0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »@Pu_239Here is a more complete version. It also addresses the issue where people's TDEE is lower than estimated and they're doing everything right, in this case they wouldn't be losing weight either. Also addresses the issue of having realistic expectations for weight loss and a reasonable calorie deficit.
The OP started a thread. He/She already stated that he/she will edit the chart during the weekend due to lack of time. If you want to make a chart of your own to link on forums you should make a blog post or another thread while mentioning the OP. Otherwise give ideas to the OP and he/she will judge if the additions that you want are essential.if you or anyone else has suggestions on wording/typos message me.
While you are trying to be helpful most likely it seems like you are trying to prove that your chart is better and somewhat take "credits" for it which ends up being rude towards the OP.
Actually if you read all the posts you'll see that OP invited anyone with better design software/skills to make their own version of the chart. She also stated that she had tried to think of a way to "include people who maybe lost a few pounds at first and then stalled" without overcomplicating things... which the alternative version covers. I think the goal is that everyone puts their heads together and collaborates to get the best possible chart, is it not...?
[edit] Everybody's name who contributed could go on it, if people feel it's that important (?)... personally I think that's a bit like being back in grade school, but whatever...
this thread has been de railed enough....OP asked for suggestions to make it better not for a particular poster to create their own and insert it into this thread.
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »@Pu_239Here is a more complete version. It also addresses the issue where people's TDEE is lower than estimated and they're doing everything right, in this case they wouldn't be losing weight either. Also addresses the issue of having realistic expectations for weight loss and a reasonable calorie deficit.
The OP started a thread. He/She already stated that he/she will edit the chart during the weekend due to lack of time. If you want to make a chart of your own to link on forums you should make a blog post or another thread while mentioning the OP. Otherwise give ideas to the OP and he/she will judge if the additions that you want are essential.if you or anyone else has suggestions on wording/typos message me.
While you are trying to be helpful most likely it seems like you are trying to prove that your chart is better and somewhat take "credits" for it which ends up being rude towards the OP.
Actually if you read all the posts you'll see that OP invited anyone with better design software/skills to make their own version of the chart. She also stated that she had tried to think of a way to "include people who maybe lost a few pounds at first and then stalled" without overcomplicating things... which the alternative version covers. I think the goal is that everyone puts their heads together and collaborates to get the best possible chart, is it not...?
[edit] Everybody's name who contributed could go on it, if people feel it's that important (?)... personally I think that's a bit like being back in grade school, but whatever...
She changed her mind on people who had already lost some weight, because that would, indeed, be a different chart progression and, as she said, overcomplicate things.
Here's what she said:I think you're right. I was trying to also include people who maybe lost a few pounds at first and then stalled, but maybe that over-complicates things.0 -
Great chart, OP. Looks really good.
I like Mr. Knight's tl, dr version also.0 -
Came back and found new avatars.
I like the flow chart for it's simplicity.0 -
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Bumping to the top of the forum.0
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This is such a great flowchart. It deserves to be bumped twice today.0
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It's obvious a lot of time and effort was devoted to the creation of this Visio masterpiece. With that said, a picture is worth 1000 words . . . kudos to the abbreviated version. Social media has conditioned us to shun thoughts more than 140 characters long. Thanks to all of those who read the blogs, posts and offer support. MFP offers something for everyone and there is something magical knowing across the nations we are not alone in our triumphs and struggles.
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Can we post this image (not this thread but the image itself) at the top of the forum? This would cut down on 50% of the new threads each day of people having the same issues and not using the search function.0
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Can we post this image (not this thread but the image itself) at the top of the forum? This would cut down on 50% of the new threads each day of people having the same issues and not using the search function.
Sadly, I think it would just end up as part of the "must reads" stickied at the top of each section, and no one seems to read those anyway. Still, there's a sticky suggestions thread on the feedback board if you want the mods to see your suggestion.0 -
I notice that one of the questions takes a user to advice to perhaps do exactly what they are doing today or increase calorie consumption. This would be the "Are you eating back some or all of your exercise calories?" question.
If the answer is "Yes, I'm eating back some (25%) of them", the result will direct a user to keep doing the same thing.
If the answer is "Yes, I'm eating back some (10%) of them", the result will direct a user to increase calorie consumption.0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »I notice that one of the questions takes a user to advice to perhaps do exactly what they are doing today or increase calorie consumption. This would be the "Are you eating back some or all of your exercise calories?" question.
If the answer is "Yes, I'm eating back some (25%) of them", the result will direct a user to keep doing the same thing.
If the answer is "Yes, I'm eating back some (10%) of them", the result will direct a user to increase calorie consumption.
I'm not the one who made the chart, but my opinion on this is that if someone is only eating back 10% of their exercise calories and they are not losing, then the exercise is not the issue...it's the logging or the activity level (or medical issues). Even with the over estimations in the database, 25% should work. If it's not, then the issue is likely elsewhere.
I do understand your take on it, but I think it's moot, since at that point it's probably an issue not related to the exercise.
That would cause a user to follow the flowchart away from medical issues or the answer that MFP forums can't help. These 2 answers at the bottom appear to be created in order to include the unusual situations that are encountered by a minority of users. If the goal is to be inclusive of even those users, then the presented flow chart fails. The fix to that failure is to either present the last possibility first as a disclaimer or to split the path to 3 decision points (I'm eating back ALL / SOME / NONE of my exercise calories). Then if 25% is the magical number (magical unless there is objective criteria to support this - and if not, then there is another failure in the chart), that is another branch (either a 4th branch for those eating 25% or less vs. greater than 25% OR a separate decision point).
My opinion is it makes the most sense to include a disclaimer at the beginning unless the percentages have demonstrated scientific validity. If the objective information presented can be shown to be scientifically sound (beyond anectdotal 'evidence'), additional branches must be included to prevent encouragement to increase caloric intake for users who fall into the categories of eating back <25% of their exercise calories currently.0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »HappyCampr1 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »I notice that one of the questions takes a user to advice to perhaps do exactly what they are doing today or increase calorie consumption. This would be the "Are you eating back some or all of your exercise calories?" question.
If the answer is "Yes, I'm eating back some (25%) of them", the result will direct a user to keep doing the same thing.
If the answer is "Yes, I'm eating back some (10%) of them", the result will direct a user to increase calorie consumption.
I'm not the one who made the chart, but my opinion on this is that if someone is only eating back 10% of their exercise calories and they are not losing, then the exercise is not the issue...it's the logging or the activity level (or medical issues). Even with the over estimations in the database, 25% should work. If it's not, then the issue is likely elsewhere.
I do understand your take on it, but I think it's moot, since at that point it's probably an issue not related to the exercise.
That would cause a user to follow the flowchart away from medical issues or the answer that MFP forums can't help. These 2 answers at the bottom appear to be created in order to include the unusual situations that are encountered by a minority of users. If the goal is to be inclusive of even those users, then the presented flow chart fails. The fix to that failure is to either present the last possibility first as a disclaimer or to split the path to 3 decision points (I'm eating back ALL / SOME / NONE of my exercise calories). Then if 25% is the magical number (magical unless there is objective criteria to support this - and if not, then there is another failure in the chart), that is another branch (either a 4th branch for those eating 25% or less vs. greater than 25% OR a separate decision point).
My opinion is it makes the most sense to include a disclaimer at the beginning unless the percentages have demonstrated scientific validity. If the objective information presented can be shown to be scientifically sound (beyond anectdotal 'evidence'), additional branches must be included to prevent encouragement to increase caloric intake for users who fall into the categories of eating back <25% of their exercise calories currently.
Again...just me, but I think the users should be eating back minimum 25% of their exercise. I have no problem encouraging users to eat back at least 25%. I lost my weight eating back about 90% of my exercise. MFP is designed for people to eat back their exercise. As I stated earlier, if someone is not losing and they are eating back less than ten percent of their calories (as in your earlier point), then the issue isn't with their exercise calories. If they fix the real issue, then increasing their exercise calories upwards from that ten percent will not be a problem for them.
There is nothing "magical" about eating 25% or 50% of exercise calories. Asking for scientific evidence to that effect is silly. The point here is to establish that the database generally (but not always) overestimates exercise calories. To offset that, it is usually recommended that you cut back on logging the estimated burn.
If you are a user who does not wish to eat back exercise calories, you should be following the TDEE method of calculating calories instead of MFP's method. MFP creates a deficit before exercise and presumes people will be eating those calories back.
The matter of whether increasing caloric intake will resolve a weight loss stall sounds like an area where users will legitimately disagree. In such cases where there is no clear "right" answer, it really should be either disclaimed or omitted.
The other piece missing from this flowchart altogether is the user-stated MFP activity level, especially as it relates to tracking exercise.0 -
I think, to just about everyone, since the chart is being used for people who aren't losing weight, that the implication was that people were eating back all of their exercise calories and the recommendation was to eat only 25%-50%.
You are misinterpreting and over-complicating a simple thing here by removing the overall original context.
If you don't find this chart useful, don't use it.0 -
Wasn't the first version of this flowchart also hijacked by a user with a medical condition trying to ascribe his way of eating to everyone else? It was so long ago, I don't remember. I'm just not sure why these issues are being suggested 6 MONTHS after the chart was created and given to the community to use. Countless users have stated that it was very useful to them in that time.0
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To be honest, I think there's really only one flowchart that makes sense:
The rest is just details.
(Note: Before I get a whole lot of hate comments, please don't take this too seriously. It's meant to be a joke.)
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diannethegeek wrote: »Wasn't the first version of this flowchart also hijacked by a user with a medical condition trying to ascribe his way of eating to everyone else? It was so long ago, I don't remember. I'm just not sure why these issues are being suggested 6 MONTHS after the chart was created and given to the community to use. Countless users have stated that it was very useful to them in that time.
Well, it was hijacked by another user. I don't know about him having a medical condition, but he had... let's say an agenda. For want of a better term.
I agree, countless users find it quite helpful.0 -
To be honest, I think there's really only one flowchart that makes sense:
The rest is just details.
(Note: Before I get a whole lot of hate comments, please don't take this too seriously. It's meant to be a joke.)
lol! funny. Maybe include a picture with a plate of food crossed out next to the treadmill runner0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Wasn't the first version of this flowchart also hijacked by a user with a medical condition trying to ascribe his way of eating to everyone else? It was so long ago, I don't remember. I'm just not sure why these issues are being suggested 6 MONTHS after the chart was created and given to the community to use. Countless users have stated that it was very useful to them in that time.
I don't know... that was not a thread I saw.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »I think, to just about everyone, since the chart is being used for people who aren't losing weight, that the implication was that people were eating back all of their exercise calories and the recommendation was to eat only 25%-50%.
You are misinterpreting and over-complicating a simple thing here by removing the overall original context.
If you don't find this chart useful, don't use it.
It isn't misinterpreting or over-complicating to believe that "some" could mean any percentage >0% and <100%. If the real intent of that result of the flowchart is for users eating back "all", then it should be labeled as such. Those eating "some" exercise calories back would follow a different path that leads to a response appropriate for those users.
You are acknowledging this flowchart is wrong and arguing that it is fine to be wrong. I agree with you about the former, but disagree about the latter.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »I think, to just about everyone, since the chart is being used for people who aren't losing weight, that the implication was that people were eating back all of their exercise calories and the recommendation was to eat only 25%-50%.
You are misinterpreting and over-complicating a simple thing here by removing the overall original context.
If you don't find this chart useful, don't use it.
It isn't misinterpreting or over-complicating to believe that "some" could mean any percentage >0% and <100%. If the real intent of that result of the flowchart is for users eating back "all", then it should be labeled as such. Those eating "some" exercise calories back would follow a different path that leads to a response appropriate for those users.
You are acknowledging this flowchart is wrong and arguing that it is fine to be wrong. I agree with you about the former, but disagree about the latter.
What's your agenda here? Would you like us to stop using it? Would you like the OP (who hasn't been around the forums in weeks) to come back and change it? Do you want the thread deleted or no longer bumped? Or are you just here to pick another fight?
I'd really like to know.0
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