What is your take on a Fully Raw Vegan Lifestyle?
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I've been a vegan-leaning vegetarian (not raw) for almost 25 years now, during which time I gave birth to 2 children, who have always been and are still healthy vegetarians, ages 19 and 22. No issues at all during pregnancy, and I've eaten both healthy and not so healthy (my reason for being on MFP now!) during that time. Vegan diets are not automatically healthy, though eating vegan does keep me conscious of food, nutrition, and especially vegetables. I really don't understand the whole raw thing, personally. As for the diet being boring--Not for me-It's encouraged me to try recipes from all over the world, using ingredients most of my omnivorous friends have never heard of. As for the diet being socially limiting--Sometimes. I tend to eat dairy and eggs when we are visiting people because even cooking ovo-lacto can be a stretch for some folks, let alone vegan. But it's nothing that can't be worked around. I'd examine your reasons for wanting to make the change. Try eating vegan for awhile without making a declaration about it and take a multivitamin. Raw, I don't know...0
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Danielle721007 wrote: »Well thank you all for your opinions ! I personally love to eat raw veggies and of course yummy fruits and nuts so it doesn't bother me as far as eating goes. In terms of the "healthier" mention, what I should have clarified was referring to it is healthier in terms of most people don't eat as much or even half veggies and fruits as a person should based on the nutritional daily amount. Of course grains and meats are consumed more (by those who do not adapt an evenly nutritional lifestyle) that is. My reason for excluding meat is merely because my body feels better and I don't feel so lethargic after meals.
While I am on a weight loss journey, this is not a diet or ploy to lose my weight. I am simply eating this way because I enjoy the way my body feels eating these delicious fruits and vegetables.
So why not just focus on upping your veggie and fruit intake, instead of making drastic cuts from your diet? It would be much easier, and more sustainable long term, to add things instead of arbitrarily cutting things out.
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No meat, no eggs, no dairy, no fun.
I could not live without butter, ice cream and other sweets made with butter and eggs, beef, and pork.0 -
Does it really have zero impact on animal suffering? Sure, any one person making a decision won't stop the meat industry, but eventually reduced demand will filter into less animals being killed - at the very least, the person has disassociated themselves from the system of suffering to the extent they can. That it would take everyone else doing it is where preachy vegans (looking at you PETA) come out and give most vegans a bad name.
are you sure that's moral nihilism?
the real crux of my argument is that abstaining from meat has absolutely zero impact on suffering. I make no claim that cruelty to animals is amoral.
I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian, but I look at it morally the same as giving charity to the poor. I don't consider it a moral requirement to do so, but I'll say anyone that can make the sacrifice is being more moral than me.0 -
isulo_kura wrote: »allbarrett wrote: »Make sure you tell your health care provider about your dietary changes. There are vitamins and such that are easier to get through eating meat or other non-vegetarian/non-vegan products and you'll want to make sure that you aren't developing any deficiencies (usually entails slightly more detailed blood work when you have your normal check ups).
Sorry this is just a myth as a Vegan (not a Raw one) for 20 years plus the only thing that is difficult to get through a Vegan diet is Vitamin B12 which is easily available via fortified foods or a supplement.
As for talking to a health care provider most are pretty clueless about any Non meat eating diet and will be pretty useless
As for the Raw Vegan lifestyle I have no issues if it works for people but my opinion on it is the same as a normal Vegan diet it is not some panacea to health. You can have bad Vegan diets the same way you can have good ones containing animal products. I am a Vegan for ethical reasons and would live this way no matter what.
I would caution about starting a diet that you do not plan living that way for the rest of your life.
Why not just eat a varied vegan/vegetarian diet based mainly around wholefoods but without depriving yourself of things. That to me is a much more sustainable long term way of thinking about food
Good luck
The only thing I will caution is as a woman who may want to have children there are issues when you become pregnant.
I have vegetarian friends and in order to ensure the health of their children they had to start eating some form of meat/animal products while pregnant as it can cause health issues with the babies...
One women (not a friend) developed an inability to process certain nutrients (can't remember which one) late in her pregnancy (it reversed itself after the child was born)but her child was born with it and can't at all and will never be able too...
along with other issues.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15918275
You can get all those nutrients noted in the study while being a vegetarian - you just need to be mindful of the fact that they are often lower in 'typical vegetarian foods'. You need to be even more mindful when a vegan as it is even more restrictive. A meat eater who eats very little fruits and veggies also runs the risk of being deficient.
agreed, just more about education than anything...I am not a vegetarian but read that article and was shocked by it..I had no idea and to be honest neither did a lot of my friends who are vegetarian and female...most just eat that way because they don't like meat and didn't think it would affect them during pregnancy....
As long as women are aware of this and supplement all is good.0 -
...is being more moral than me.
I don't see a question of more vs less moral.
One might choose for ethical reasons to minimise ones adverse effects on animals, how that manifests is up to the individual. That may mean opting for a vegan lifestyle, a vegetarian diet, organically sourced animals or indeed rearing and slaughtering oneself.
Similarly one might consider ones impact in other ways.
Viewing ones morality or ethics as superior drives both the preachiness alluded to upthread, and the defensiveness demonstrated by others in the thread. It also depends on having a shared framework of morals or ethics.
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I like the occasional raw vegan coconut cookie (by occasional I mean eating the whole bag at one sitting) but overall I could never give up meat or cooking and it seems kinda silly to try. There is zero evidence that it is in any way beneficial. I hear some people say "oh I feel so much better" but when you look at the before and after pictures of them they look like they have contracted some disease that is slowly wasting them away. Instead of looking healthy but trim they look sunk in and their skin seems dull and lifeless.
Unfortunately I have to agree with this. Those of my friends who eat this way look like they are on chemo. Usually after several years I have noticed they switch to "regular" vegetarianism or even pescatarianism. One guy went back completely to meats, poultry and fish along with the veg and dairy and he is doing so much better both physically and mentally.
Humans have evolved to be omnivores. You *can* survive doing otherwise, and it is of course your right to eat as you wish, but on a health level, I have to consider it suboptimal. Absent medical conditions that demand you do otherwise, I am a proponent of the old fashioned 4 food groups, portioned out in the modern "my plate" method.
I have seen the very same thing also.0 -
Been there done that got fat again-The whole raw vegan thing, growing wheat grass the enemas, the colonics, blah blah blah. From what I experienced of the diet itself and the community involved in it, it's another way to turn eating into a religion, be fashionable or use it for one-up-man ship.
However, on the plus side, there are some very nice recipes from Julian Brotman and Ani Phyo that are just good food. If you abide by the Anne Wigmore approach, the food is so bad, you won't want to eat. I'll stick with a mix of easily sustained whole foods including a variety of animals, a mix of cooked and raw, skipping most industrial processed foods.
There were a few good things I learned as a raw vegan, and one was that when I use a whole food, using soaked ground dates as a sweetener instead of pure sugar for example, I didn't have the urge to overeat. That's a good thing because a lot of raw vegan recipes have extremely high calorie counts due to the dried fruits and nuts.
After being raw vegan I lost some weight but not as much as I hoped,and it seems to have ruined my metabolism. I gained back at least double the weight I lost. My metabolism still hasn't recovered.
Common problems with vega ism in general- vegans are known for having many dental problems due to the diet. Even taking B12 supplements, According to my doc, I wasn't getting enough of this nutrient. I was exhausted all the time.
Some people like this way of eating and if it works for them fine. I do know of someone who turned his heart disease around with this but went on to a normal healthy diet once heart ok. So it may be good as a temporary measure to address some health issues,but whether or not it will work is a gamble. It has failed for many. I wish I had not eaten that way and I'm hoping I can get my metabolism back on track. I would not recommend this or any other extremist form of eating to anyone.0 -
Docbanana2002 wrote: »I'm a vegan for ethical reasons and plan my vegan diet with lots of fresh whole foods and careful attention to nutrition for health reasons (but I also have treats like chocolate and wine now and then for psychological reasons!).
I am not convinced that doing vegan plus raw, gluten free, sugar free, oil free, or any of the other fads out there are really important for good health unless you have a specific medical condition (like Celiac disease) that you are trying to treat with those approaches. It seems like too much strictness and limitation for no good reason to me.
the ethical argument always confuses me
people spend money all the time, and eventually that money will work its way up to a government or business that exploits, injures, oppresses, and/or slaughters other human beings. and people rarely blink an eye
but eating animals is unethical
Just because your ethical about animals does not mean you not ethical around humans. I try to live as ethically as I can through all streams of my life. I do not believe in the needless slaughter and exploitation of people the same way I do not believe in the needless exploitation or slaughter of animals.
Your argument that not eating meat or animal products will not save animals because they will be replaced by others is just a silly argument. It's an argument never to do anything that could have a positive effect. It's like saying there's no point teaching people to swim because if they don't drown they'll be replaced by another child. Rather than thinking well if we teach one person to swim and others realise that this is good thing more people swim so eventually lives will be saved. Luckily a lot of people do not think like you and believe it worthless to do something because it does not have a major change. All large changes in society and big political/ethical movements started with small steps and people doing things that may not have an immediate effect but there opinions actions spred
This thread is a prime example of as soon as someone mentions as they are a Vegan (normally because someone asked them) they suddenly get accused of preaching. The title of this thread is about Vegans if you don't want to hear about it dont read it otherwise they'll be Vegan content
As for shoving veganism in people's faces as Vegan's get accused off. Have you seen all the advertising and television. Watch your favourite TV program if you can come back and tell me that 20% of the adverts have a Pro Vegan Agenda then you may have a point but you'll be lucking to see less than 1% mentioning a plant milk. There is far more preaching about and using animal products than there is of Vegan ones
I always find it rather sad that as soon as someone mentions that they are Vegan, Numerous comments come out about Bacon and how many animals you eat in comparison to a Vegan. Why would anyone think this is funny? Personally that response is rather sad and I think it's more of a sub conscious self defense because just by using the Word Vegan your ethics are being challenged
I'm not on MFP to preach my Personal ethics I very rarely even go into Vegan threads because of the small minded approach some people seem to take. I probably wont go into one again for a long time. Those who know me know I don't preach my ethics at others I engage if people ask me other than that your ethical choices are your decision. Those of you in this thread who immediately attack vegans or feel the need to reply with childish comments about bacon or the amount of animals you can eat I would ask you to take a step back and think about why you respond like that? Yes there are some pushy vegans who will preach at people but compare that to other people who preach at you and it's a small minority. Most vegans are like me just normal people who have mad a choice and just get on with their lives.
Luckily on my friends list I have many people who eat both Omnivorous and Vegan/vegetarian lifestyles who do not feel the need to try and put peoples ethical opinions down. I do not believe a Vegan diet is better than anyone else's you can nutritionally have good and bad Vegan diets the same way you can have good and bad involving animal products.
Also to those of you who say you could not be a Vegan because you could not live without Cheese or Bacon. I'd like to tell you you can. You just stop eating it *simples*
I will no revert to my quiet avoiding Vegan threads state. Make your own ethical choices but don't think that because someone's else's are different to yours you immediately should attack because that says more about you than them. Have a Good Day0 -
I can't even think myself as a vegitarian . I love meat.0
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I tried to go pescetarian for a year, couldn't even do that. Love meat too much.0
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My take? Eat however you want but remember that veganism is about more than food. You will be eliminating all leather, wool, and silk from your clothing. You will not be eating honey. You cannot use beeswax candles or any personal care products that use beeswax or honey. Sorry, but I like my leather shoes and lip balms, etc made with beeswax. I like my silk blouses. I like my wool sweaters and long underwear in winter. I also like my honey.
On the other hand, if you are morally opposed to using animal products in your life, by all means go vegan. Each person has to walk their own walk.0 -
isulo_kura wrote: »Docbanana2002 wrote: »I'm a vegan for ethical reasons and plan my vegan diet with lots of fresh whole foods and careful attention to nutrition for health reasons (but I also have treats like chocolate and wine now and then for psychological reasons!).
I am not convinced that doing vegan plus raw, gluten free, sugar free, oil free, or any of the other fads out there are really important for good health unless you have a specific medical condition (like Celiac disease) that you are trying to treat with those approaches. It seems like too much strictness and limitation for no good reason to me.
the ethical argument always confuses me
people spend money all the time, and eventually that money will work its way up to a government or business that exploits, injures, oppresses, and/or slaughters other human beings. and people rarely blink an eye
but eating animals is unethical
Your argument that not eating meat or animal products will not save animals because they will be replaced by others is just a silly argument. It's an argument never to do anything that could have a positive effect. It's like saying there's no point teaching people to swim because if they don't drown they'll be replaced by another child. Rather than thinking well if we teach one person to swim and others realise that this is good thing more people swim so eventually lives will be saved. Luckily a lot of people do not think like you and believe it worthless to do something because it does not have a major change. All large changes in society and big political/ethical movements started with small steps and people doing things that may not have an immediate effect but there opinions actions spred
actually my argument was to go out and do something that actually has a positive effect, instead of just sitting at home and acting like a diet does. Have a Good Day
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I don't trust anyone who doesn't eat meat , its just a fashion statement you can't wear.0
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I've NEVER ate a vegetable that tastes like meat, so I personally would never pursue it.
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Most vegans and vegetarians eventually go back to fish then eggs then meat because their diets eventually take a huge toll on their bodies. Vegans can eat crap food and not enough veggies too, so I don't really see that as a valid argument. I personally eat a ton of veggies, but also eat grass fed beef and pasture raised chicken and eggs. It's up to you though. I'd say in the long term - unsustainable and dangerous. For a short cleanse, totally fine!0
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Most vegans and vegetarians eventually go back to fish then eggs then meat because their diets eventually take a huge toll on their bodies. Vegans can eat crap food and not enough veggies too, so I don't really see that as a valid argument. I personally eat a ton of veggies, but also eat grass fed beef and pasture raised chicken and eggs. It's up to you though. I'd say in the long term - unsustainable and dangerous. For a short cleanse, totally fine!
Where are you getting this information from? Particularly for vegetarians? Some support to this rather extreme claim would be appreciated. It is pretty much contradicting studies I have seen.
Also...for a short cleanse..pointless - you will not be cleansing anything.0 -
Most vegans and vegetarians eventually go back to fish then eggs then meat because their diets eventually take a huge toll on their bodies.
Most?
I'd suggest that's a pretty gross generalisation that you're unable to support.
I'd agree that many walk back for various reasons, for many it's practicality, for others it's about whether their diet is appropriate, regardless of whether it's lacto-ovo vegetarian, omniverous or vegan. All variants of vegetarian diet do need some thought to assure an appropriate range of nutrients, but the same thing could apply to omnivores as well. I know of a fair few for whom their standard fare of meat, boiled potatoes and boiled veg probably isn't giving them a decent range either.
For a lacto-ovo vegetarian it's very easy to get a decent range of nutrients. It's not just a question of removing meat, it's about replacing it.
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There are some of us that just really don't like meat (me), so I've been predominantly vegan for the majority of my life just because I don't have a taste for meat. For me, that's great. I also play around with raw veganism, but I know that it's just a short term thing for me because when winter comes I need some warm foods (soups and what not), but during the summer I just feel much better with fruits, which is what I naturally gravitate towards, so...yeah, I'm kind of a natural born vegan (I do have meat occasionally, but when it's not around I don't miss it at all, so it's like a rare occasion kinda thing).0
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