Clean Eating Question
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My non-cheat day today included: baked apple, granola, yogurt, steamed broccoli, pork tenderloin, baked potato, pot roast, a green salad with vinaigrette, a nectarine, an a fudgsicle. Right at my maintenance calories.0
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I am far from a clean eater and am interested in why eating "processed" foods, in a balanced diet, is inherently bad?
My two sample days:
Yesterday
Breakfast: Special K Breakfast sandwich, coffee with liquid creamer
Lunch: leftovers which included jambalaya from a box, sautéed veggies, chicken and andouille sausage
Dinner: (total change of plans and last minute dinner at home) frozen fish fillets, noodles from a package, sautéed asparagus
Extras: bakery cookie, wine
Today:
Breakfast: Greek yogurt, Kashi bar, coffee with liquid creamer
Lunch: grilled chicken sandwich with cheese on wheat bun from work cafeteria
Dinner: Whole wheat Rigatoni with homemade tomato sauce and store bought garlic bread.
Extras: macarons from a bakery and wine
Both days under my calorie goal. I'm sure I could eat more veggies. Not a big fruit eater. But what is inherently unhealthy about my meals?
Everyone always assumes if you say you don't eat clean you are sitting around eating nothing but donuts and Doritos. I definitely don't do that. I have a busy life and convenience foods are just that, convenient. I lost my weight and am maintenance and my health markers are great. So why is it that because I dare to enter the middle aisles of the grocery store, is my food "junk"?
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When I first started on MFP and saw all this "Clean eating" talk, I quickly figured out they weren't talking kosher v not, so I googled, but came up with no real definition. Then, I started a thread to ask what, specifically, it meant.
Holy God, did I ask the wrong question. I didn't realize what would ensue, lol.
"Clean" means a variety of things to different people. So does "in moderation." Both terms are used a LOT, but neither one actually means anything. If you want to know what someone means, you have to ask...but best to not. The fur will fly. Best to just think of "clean" as "my definition of healthy" and "in moderation" as "my definition of a healthy amount."
I'm so sorry you're getting baited and attacked.
That shouldn't happen. It's technically against the MFP rules.
Stick with what the dietitian gave you. The world will not end and you aren't doomed to being fat if you eliminate chips. People have successfully lost weight without them. 0 -
Post deleted.
It's just not worth it.0 -
For me, saying I'll eat "clean" or I'll "cut out processed foods" means getting rid of the things in my diet that have chemicals listed in the ingredients. I don't care what studies someone might throw at me to show that such-and-such additive in that boxed meal isn't bad for us... I want to cut them out. It makes me feel good to know that I'm cooking food for my family that doesn't have all those additives. Many boxed foods or mixes are also full of sodium and I'd rather cook from scratch, add a bit of salt, then have the eaters add their own salt or seasonings. This is how my family can even eat chili for example, with one who likes his chili SPICY(!) omg... and another who likes is "pretty spicy", and one who wants no spice, and one who would like a teeny bit. ugh. lol So I make my own, with all ingredients that I can pronounce.
For the person up-thread who was arguing that beef is "processed" -- why do some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food". Of course a steak in the store has been "processed" in some way -- the cow has been killed, then butchered, then packaged, and brought to the store. That's "processing". But obviously that's not the same thing as a frozen dinner or canned soup that has unpronounceable ingredients. lol
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Monklady123 wrote: »For me, saying I'll eat "clean" or I'll "cut out processed foods" means getting rid of the things in my diet that have chemicals listed in the ingredients. I don't care what studies someone might throw at me to show that such-and-such additive in that boxed meal isn't bad for us... I want to cut them out. It makes me feel good to know that I'm cooking food for my family that doesn't have all those additives. Many boxed foods or mixes are also full of sodium and I'd rather cook from scratch, add a bit of salt, then have the eaters add their own salt or seasonings. This is how my family can even eat chili for example, with one who likes his chili SPICY(!) omg... and another who likes is "pretty spicy", and one who wants no spice, and one who would like a teeny bit. ugh. lol So I make my own, with all ingredients that I can pronounce.
For the person up-thread who was arguing that beef is "processed" -- why do some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food". Of course a steak in the store has been "processed" in some way -- the cow has been killed, then butchered, then packaged, and brought to the store. That's "processing". But obviously that's not the same thing as a frozen dinner or canned soup that has unpronounceable ingredients. lol
I hate the "stuff I can pronounce" argument. Do you even know what fruits are composed of?-1 -
Monklady123 wrote: »For me, saying I'll eat "clean" or I'll "cut out processed foods" means getting rid of the things in my diet that have chemicals listed in the ingredients. I don't care what studies someone might throw at me to show that such-and-such additive in that boxed meal isn't bad for us... I want to cut them out. It makes me feel good to know that I'm cooking food for my family that doesn't have all those additives. Many boxed foods or mixes are also full of sodium and I'd rather cook from scratch, add a bit of salt, then have the eaters add their own salt or seasonings. This is how my family can even eat chili for example, with one who likes his chili SPICY(!) omg... and another who likes is "pretty spicy", and one who wants no spice, and one who would like a teeny bit. ugh. lol So I make my own, with all ingredients that I can pronounce.
For the person up-thread who was arguing that beef is "processed" -- why do some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food". Of course a steak in the store has been "processed" in some way -- the cow has been killed, then butchered, then packaged, and brought to the store. That's "processing". But obviously that's not the same thing as a frozen dinner or canned soup that has unpronounceable ingredients. lol
This fascinates me. I have a few frozen meals in the freezer for a quick lunch at work if I don't have any leftovers to bring. I don't find them filling so I usually supplement with a salad, or extra veggies or protein from my work cafeteria, but they work in a pinch.
Here's a Healthy choice dinner and its ingredients. What exactly is so evil on this list, that wouldn't be also in the common ingredients one would use at home if you made baked ziti from scratch? Because I made rigatoni and meat sauce at home last night and I used pretty much the exact same ingredients: canned tomato sauces, rigatoni noodles, Italian sausage and ground beef, dried and fresh spices, fresh grated Parmesan cheese.
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lemonsnowdrop wrote: »Monklady123 wrote: »For me, saying I'll eat "clean" or I'll "cut out processed foods" means getting rid of the things in my diet that have chemicals listed in the ingredients. I don't care what studies someone might throw at me to show that such-and-such additive in that boxed meal isn't bad for us... I want to cut them out. It makes me feel good to know that I'm cooking food for my family that doesn't have all those additives. Many boxed foods or mixes are also full of sodium and I'd rather cook from scratch, add a bit of salt, then have the eaters add their own salt or seasonings. This is how my family can even eat chili for example, with one who likes his chili SPICY(!) omg... and another who likes is "pretty spicy", and one who wants no spice, and one who would like a teeny bit. ugh. lol So I make my own, with all ingredients that I can pronounce.
For the person up-thread who was arguing that beef is "processed" -- why do some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food". Of course a steak in the store has been "processed" in some way -- the cow has been killed, then butchered, then packaged, and brought to the store. That's "processing". But obviously that's not the same thing as a frozen dinner or canned soup that has unpronounceable ingredients. lol
I hate the "stuff I can pronounce" argument. Do you even know what fruits are composed of?
Let's just skip straight to cutting out nasty dhmo. Inhaling it can kill you, it's used in industrial solvent, and its full name is scary sounding.0 -
Monklady123 wrote: »For me, saying I'll eat "clean" or I'll "cut out processed foods" means getting rid of the things in my diet that have chemicals listed in the ingredients. I don't care what studies someone might throw at me to show that such-and-such additive in that boxed meal isn't bad for us... I want to cut them out. It makes me feel good to know that I'm cooking food for my family that doesn't have all those additives. Many boxed foods or mixes are also full of sodium and I'd rather cook from scratch, add a bit of salt, then have the eaters add their own salt or seasonings. This is how my family can even eat chili for example, with one who likes his chili SPICY(!) omg... and another who likes is "pretty spicy", and one who wants no spice, and one who would like a teeny bit. ugh. lol So I make my own, with all ingredients that I can pronounce.
For the person up-thread who was arguing that beef is "processed" -- why do some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food". Of course a steak in the store has been "processed" in some way -- the cow has been killed, then butchered, then packaged, and brought to the store. That's "processing". But obviously that's not the same thing as a frozen dinner or canned soup that has unpronounceable ingredients. lol
This fascinates me. I have a few frozen meals in the freezer for a quick lunch at work if I don't have any leftovers to bring. I don't find them filling so I usually supplement with a salad, or extra veggies or protein from my work cafeteria, but they work in a pinch.
Here's a Healthy choice dinner and its ingredients. What exactly is so evil on this list, that wouldn't be also in the common ingredients one would use at home if you made baked ziti from scratch? Because I made rigatoni and meat sauce at home last night and I used pretty much the exact same ingredients: canned tomato sauces, rigatoni noodles, Italian sausage and ground beef, dried and fresh spices, fresh grated Parmesan cheese.
Yes, that's one reason it's called "healthy choice". lol. You'll notice that I began my comment with the words "for me". So I'm happy that you are choosing pre-made meals that have good things in them. I wasn't. So FOR ME clean eating means cutting out processed food which lots of chemical-sounding ingredients. So instead of buying a box of Hamburger Helper which includes things like MSG, "disodium guanylate" (no I didn't have that memorized, I looked it up), a large amount of salt, and several dyes, I can make it at home with meat, fresh or canned tomatoes depending on the season, tomato paste (ingredients: tomatoes), spices and the pasta of my choice.
And for whoever said they hate the "ingredients I can pronounce" argument, I'm wondering why? FOR ME I like to understand what I'm eating. Why does that bother you? You are free to buy boxed meals, and packaged cookies if you wish. Why are you so defensive about what *I* choose to do?0 -
Monklady123 wrote: »Monklady123 wrote: »For me, saying I'll eat "clean" or I'll "cut out processed foods" means getting rid of the things in my diet that have chemicals listed in the ingredients. I don't care what studies someone might throw at me to show that such-and-such additive in that boxed meal isn't bad for us... I want to cut them out. It makes me feel good to know that I'm cooking food for my family that doesn't have all those additives. Many boxed foods or mixes are also full of sodium and I'd rather cook from scratch, add a bit of salt, then have the eaters add their own salt or seasonings. This is how my family can even eat chili for example, with one who likes his chili SPICY(!) omg... and another who likes is "pretty spicy", and one who wants no spice, and one who would like a teeny bit. ugh. lol So I make my own, with all ingredients that I can pronounce.
For the person up-thread who was arguing that beef is "processed" -- why do some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food". Of course a steak in the store has been "processed" in some way -- the cow has been killed, then butchered, then packaged, and brought to the store. That's "processing". But obviously that's not the same thing as a frozen dinner or canned soup that has unpronounceable ingredients. lol
This fascinates me. I have a few frozen meals in the freezer for a quick lunch at work if I don't have any leftovers to bring. I don't find them filling so I usually supplement with a salad, or extra veggies or protein from my work cafeteria, but they work in a pinch.
Here's a Healthy choice dinner and its ingredients. What exactly is so evil on this list, that wouldn't be also in the common ingredients one would use at home if you made baked ziti from scratch? Because I made rigatoni and meat sauce at home last night and I used pretty much the exact same ingredients: canned tomato sauces, rigatoni noodles, Italian sausage and ground beef, dried and fresh spices, fresh grated Parmesan cheese.
Yes, that's one reason it's called "healthy choice". lol. You'll notice that I began my comment with the words "for me". So I'm happy that you are choosing pre-made meals that have good things in them. I wasn't. So FOR ME clean eating means cutting out processed food which lots of chemical-sounding ingredients. So instead of buying a box of Hamburger Helper which includes things like MSG, "disodium guanylate" (no I didn't have that memorized, I looked it up), a large amount of salt, and several dyes, I can make it at home with meat, fresh or canned tomatoes depending on the season, tomato paste (ingredients: tomatoes), spices and the pasta of my choice.
And for whoever said they hate the "ingredients I can pronounce" argument, I'm wondering why? FOR ME I like to understand what I'm eating. Why does that bother you? You are free to buy boxed meals, and packaged cookies if you wish. Why are you so defensive about what *I* choose to do?
You could start learning what things mean that you don't know yet instead of rejecting them outright.
Do you know what riboflavin is? Or Ascorbic acid?0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Monklady123 wrote: »Monklady123 wrote: »For me, saying I'll eat "clean" or I'll "cut out processed foods" means getting rid of the things in my diet that have chemicals listed in the ingredients. I don't care what studies someone might throw at me to show that such-and-such additive in that boxed meal isn't bad for us... I want to cut them out. It makes me feel good to know that I'm cooking food for my family that doesn't have all those additives. Many boxed foods or mixes are also full of sodium and I'd rather cook from scratch, add a bit of salt, then have the eaters add their own salt or seasonings. This is how my family can even eat chili for example, with one who likes his chili SPICY(!) omg... and another who likes is "pretty spicy", and one who wants no spice, and one who would like a teeny bit. ugh. lol So I make my own, with all ingredients that I can pronounce.
For the person up-thread who was arguing that beef is "processed" -- why do some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food". Of course a steak in the store has been "processed" in some way -- the cow has been killed, then butchered, then packaged, and brought to the store. That's "processing". But obviously that's not the same thing as a frozen dinner or canned soup that has unpronounceable ingredients. lol
This fascinates me. I have a few frozen meals in the freezer for a quick lunch at work if I don't have any leftovers to bring. I don't find them filling so I usually supplement with a salad, or extra veggies or protein from my work cafeteria, but they work in a pinch.
Here's a Healthy choice dinner and its ingredients. What exactly is so evil on this list, that wouldn't be also in the common ingredients one would use at home if you made baked ziti from scratch? Because I made rigatoni and meat sauce at home last night and I used pretty much the exact same ingredients: canned tomato sauces, rigatoni noodles, Italian sausage and ground beef, dried and fresh spices, fresh grated Parmesan cheese.
Yes, that's one reason it's called "healthy choice". lol. You'll notice that I began my comment with the words "for me". So I'm happy that you are choosing pre-made meals that have good things in them. I wasn't. So FOR ME clean eating means cutting out processed food which lots of chemical-sounding ingredients. So instead of buying a box of Hamburger Helper which includes things like MSG, "disodium guanylate" (no I didn't have that memorized, I looked it up), a large amount of salt, and several dyes, I can make it at home with meat, fresh or canned tomatoes depending on the season, tomato paste (ingredients: tomatoes), spices and the pasta of my choice.
And for whoever said they hate the "ingredients I can pronounce" argument, I'm wondering why? FOR ME I like to understand what I'm eating. Why does that bother you? You are free to buy boxed meals, and packaged cookies if you wish. Why are you so defensive about what *I* choose to do?
You could start learning what things mean that you don't know yet instead of rejecting them outright.
Do you know what riboflavin is? Or Ascorbic acid?
Lol, yes of course I do. But I didn't mention either of those, did I? I said "MSG" and "disodium guanylate" and lots of sodium, and several dyes.
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newfutures wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »newfutures wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »BabyPhat90713 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »BabyPhat90713 wrote: »
I basically would define it as getting rid of all bad carbs and processed foods. Just stick with veggies, fruits, beans, and meat! Basically most of the food in the middle Section of grocery store is a no. It's pretty strict but I was looking up clean eating meals on pinterest and it doesn't look to bad. I think I could do it. I just no that I would occasionally want a cookie or potatoes lolIsaackGMOON wrote: »So, how do you guys define clean?
What is a bad carb?
Basically junk like potato chips, crackers and so on. You get your good carbs from fruits and so forth
But wait... all of the foods you just listed come from 'good carb' sources right?
Potato chips evidently come from potatoes, good carb, right?
Crackers can have multiple ingredients; barley, rye and wheat. Good carbs, right?
A carb, is a carb. They all have the same molecular formula. They're the same on a molecular level. Nothing differentiates a carb from a carb, no?
No there are fast carbs and slow carbs. the names refer to how fast the body breaks them down. molecularly they are different. potatoes are actually considered a slow carb (bad) because they break down very quickly and cause your blood sugar to spike. the crackers are also black listed because they are from refined grains and your body break them down fast as well. Some fruits are slow carbs and most veggies. Beans are great carbs because they are slow in the breaking down process and the variety of beans is awesome. not to mention the ways to prepare them are endless. Oatmeal is also a great carb. hope that helps
Don't you see that there are no good carbs or bad carbs? It really comes down to which carb you want; slow release, or fast release.
Say, I want to get some heavy lifting done at the gym. I'll be wanting my monosaccharides; i.e. glucose. It doesn't need to be hydrolysed down into anything else - it can't. Before that, I'll have my slow release carbohydrates etc.
And insulin spiking... I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on here that it was good @ndj1979 . I think it might've been you who mentioned something about insulin spiking and something moving into the muscles? I can't remember.
Yet another thing I need to teach myself I guess.
The carb itself is not bad. its just labled bad because its counterproductive to most diet and health goals and definitely bad for diabetics. Blood sugar spikes are unhealthy because it causes fluctuations in your insulin production. when your blood sugar spikes so does your insulin. that is not healthy and overtime causes diabetes. from what i understand (not saying im right) there are no positive if any affects to muscle tissues. The majority of the carbs and starches consumed should be "complex" carbs simply because they are the healthiest for the body. They are broken down and used slower causing your insulin to stay steady. It wont spike and then crash. Now i love monster pops and noodles. I don't deprive myself of those but i use caution and moderation. For being a bad carb doughnuts sure do taste good.
Blood sugar and insulin spikes DO NOT cause diabetes. They are the main SYMPTOM of diabetes. Diabetes is caused when the body cannot regulate the amount of sugar in the bloodstream. There are several reasons for this (and can vary depending on if you are talking about T1Dm or T2Dm) but the actual cause is unknown. Scientists do not know what actually triggers it in people, but the known risk factors are:- Genetics
- Obesity
- Age
- Long term use of certain medications (especially antidepressants and statins)
- Possible environmental factors like arsenic and other pesticides and herbicides. There seems to be a correlation but there is NOT a proven causation to these
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Monklady123 wrote: »So instead of buying a box of Hamburger Helper which includes things like MSG, "disodium guanylate" (no I didn't have that memorized, I looked it up), a large amount of salt, and several dyes
So what is wrong with MSG? It is a naturally occurring amino acid extracted from seaweed. You eat it all the time if you eat much turkey (including organic free range turkeys or even wild ones since it is created in their bodies and is in the meat).
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Try to fit all the food you love into your daily allowance. Just eat smaller portions of them. Good luck!0
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mantium999 wrote: »Hate to tell you, but calorie deficit, not eating "clean" is how your neighbor lost weight. Now, eating clean might have accidentally caused a deficit, but in the end, that's all that really happened
^This.
There's no real definition of the word "clean" when it comes to eating, which means it's a completely useless buzzword that should die a fiery death. Foods are not "good" and "bad" - food is food. Eating "processed" (another meaningless word) foods doesn't make you fat...eating too many calories makes you fat.
There's nothing wrong with getting in plenty of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, beans, etc. in your diet. That's great. But if I want a donut and it fits into my macro goals, you bet your booty I'm going to eat it. And guess what? I'm not going to get fat from it, nor am I going to get cancer and die from eating foods I enjoy eating just because they're "processed."
In short, eating clean means nothing, and it's unnecessary. Being "super strict" in your diet is essentially setting yourself up for failure. You're human and you need to give yourself some slack. Food isn't the enemy.0 -
Monklady123 wrote: »For me, saying I'll eat "clean" or I'll "cut out processed foods" means getting rid of the things in my diet that have chemicals listed in the ingredients. I don't care what studies someone might throw at me to show that such-and-such additive in that boxed meal isn't bad for us... I want to cut them out. It makes me feel good to know that I'm cooking food for my family that doesn't have all those additives. Many boxed foods or mixes are also full of sodium and I'd rather cook from scratch, add a bit of salt, then have the eaters add their own salt or seasonings. This is how my family can even eat chili for example, with one who likes his chili SPICY(!) omg... and another who likes is "pretty spicy", and one who wants no spice, and one who would like a teeny bit. ugh. lol So I make my own, with all ingredients that I can pronounce.
For the person up-thread who was arguing that beef is "processed" -- why do some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food". Of course a steak in the store has been "processed" in some way -- the cow has been killed, then butchered, then packaged, and brought to the store. That's "processing". But obviously that's not the same thing as a frozen dinner or canned soup that has unpronounceable ingredients. lol
lol...0 -
Seems like some people have their minds made up and just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Just eat whatever you want. If you want to subsist on potato chips and ice cream, go for it. It does not make a difference for others here.
Hmm, I read the thread and didn't see any posts suggesting that people subsist on potato chips and ice cream. Care to point me to the post?But if you claim that potato chips are the same as a baked potato or that Ben and Jerry's Cherries Garcia count as a fruit, sorry, but you are being willfully ignorant.
No one said the latter, and OP is the one who called all potatoes "bad carbs."
(I don't believe in "bad carbs," but it's particularly funny also because the difference between a baked potato and chips has exactly zero to do with the carbs involved. Chips are more caloric, usually, because of the oil involved, and may--but do not always--include oils/fats that you would want to keep to a minimum.)
For the record, my preexisting belief that "clean eating" is a fad buzz word and not a real thing with a consistent meaning that anyone actually applies in a serious fashion has been augmented by the current and hilarious Panera "clean eating" campaign. Apparently "clean eating" means avoiding the center of the supermarket with those scary foods like frozen veggies and instead eating at Panera.0 -
I'll bet you didn't mean to start a big huge debate.
I like eating clean. Clean to me, ( and it varies depending on who you ask), is as close to foods in their natural state as POSSIBLE, and little to no processed food. Now....let me say this: for MOST people, it's hard to do 100% of the time. I do the best I can, but it isn't always possible or even feasible, to do all the time. I like Hellman's mayo. I don't overdo, but I love having a little now and then. I love homemade also, but that isn't something I'm going to make regularly. Same thing with ketchup. I usually buy one with good ingredients, if I can. I don't eat a lot of it on a regular basis, so I don't sweat it. That applies to other things also. Diehards won't buy canned beans because of the sodium and cook dried. Some people bake their own breads and make sourdough starter, their own yogurt, etc etc. As with everything else, there are different degrees to anything.
I have also never eaten clean to lose weight, but because IMHO (did you see that? IN MY HUMBLE OPINION) I think it's a healthier way to eat. It does NOT mean that I don't LOVE pizza, or chips, or a good ol' Corona Light (or 2 or 3) on a warm summer day. In fact, I DO. And I TREAT myself and indulge. BUT if I do, I take a longer walk that day and the next and am strict with calories the next day.
The whole "good carb/bad carb" debate is laughable (IHMO) I'm pretty sure that a tomato (unless you have a sensitivity) is better for you than a bag of Lay's Potato Chips. Does that mean you never eat a potato chip ever again? HELL NO. But most days I don't eat them. It's a trigger food for ME. "NO ONE CAN EAT JUST ONE"...So if I'm going to a picnic, guess what? I'm going to have what I want. But then I may not eat a chip for 3 weeks.
When push comes to shove, you need to eat less than you burn. Bottom line. Make sure you are eating your nutrients. Get them from good quality lean protein sources, vegetables, fruits, and whole grains. If you're over 40, you'll need to be careful with your grains. Portion DOES matter, even with healthy foods. Measure in the beginning until you get familiar with portion sizes. Yes, a scale helps. If you don't want to invest in a scale, use your hand as a guide (protein is the size of a deck of cards; a cupped hand for carbs/dairy; etc. There are lots of sources online.
Do what works for YOU. You may need to experiment until you find what works. I agree though, that no matter what you do you need to indulge sometimes. If you don't, you'll binge. Better to give in once in a while than be white-knuckled ALL THE TIME. Discipline is important if you are trying to lose. I know myself, at almost 48 with 10-15 lbs. to lose, realistically it'll take time, patience, and consistency. I'm not going to let myself lose sleep over it though.
Good luck!0 -
BabyPhat90713 wrote: »ashleypetrie4 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »BabyPhat90713 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »BabyPhat90713 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »BabyPhat90713 wrote: »
I basically would define it as getting rid of all bad carbs and processed foods. Just stick with veggies, fruits, beans, and meat! Basically most of the food in the middle Section of grocery store is a no. It's pretty strict but I was looking up clean eating meals on pinterest and it doesn't look to bad. I think I could do it. I just no that I would occasionally want a cookie or potatoes lolIsaackGMOON wrote: »So, how do you guys define clean?
What is a bad carb?
Basically junk like potato chips, crackers and so on. You get your good carbs from fruits and so forth
But wait... all of the foods you just listed come from 'good carb' sources right?
Potato chips evidently come from potatoes, good carb, right?
Crackers can have multiple ingredients; barley, rye and wheat. Good carbs, right?
A carb, is a carb. They all have the same molecular formula. They're the same on a molecular level. Nothing differentiates a carb from a carb, no?
I don't know. I just No That potato chips and icecream and crackers are harder for you to digest and they are not good for you. Potatoes are only good in increments. It's a starch and starchs are not good for you either
Any studies supporting that claim?
Why are you antagonizing her? She's simply trying to begin her weight loss journey and trying to learn what she can about food and nutrition.
Thank you. I feel like I'm being attacked. I never claimed to be an expert. I just want advice. I just don't think stuffing my face with chips and icecream is what they should be telling me
In which post were you told to stuff your face with chips and ice cream.
Personally, I think "clean eating" is nonsensical, but I do think you should try to eat healthy and in accordance with sensible nutrition, which means getting adequate protein (at least some from leaner sources), trying to choose less processed/higher fiber versions of grains if you like them, and especially getting a good amount of fruits and veggies and including in your diet fats like olives/olive oil, avocado, those in fatty fish, etc. You know, basic boring stuff like any 8 year old knows. The problem is people think this is too mundane so want some trendy thing like "clean eating" (when normal cooking is mostly from whole foods anyway) or anti carb or sugar or raw or some such. No point unless you actually have preferences those line up with. If you eat way too much of what's normally considered "junk" food, the obvious response seems to be to eat less and eat more nutrient-dense stuff, not to find some special diet that cuts stuff out.0 -
I try not to eat anything that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper
Who sells you eggs without a carton or unwrapped meat? In my state (and I think most states), any meat sold commercially--including direct by a farm or through a farm-based CSA--also must be "processed" by a processor. But even if that weren't so I imagine they'd wrap it.
If you raise your own meat I guess that's an exception. I live in a city, so zoning laws (among other things, like our condo regulations and space issues and perhaps past calumnies against cows) preclude that.0 -
booksandchocolate12 wrote: »its called the socratic method. you ask someone questions to draw out the answers from them and hopefully in the process educate them as to why their thinking is not correct.
I'm a paralegal and one of the attorneys I work for always uses the Socratic method when he's trying to explain something. It can be annoying as hell, but I have to admit, I learn a lot.
It's probably best to keep in mind what happened to Socrates.
(I quite like the Socratic method, though. I once taught a law school prep class for students who wanted to be prepared for law school--typically kids from either foreign or less advantaged backgrounds--and it was really fun to be under orders to go nuts with the Socratic stuff.)0 -
Monklady123 wrote: »Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food".
I honestly have no idea, and find the way these terms are used quite strange and mystifying.
I guess one reason is that I tend to go overboard on things, so I once upon a time did refuse to eat any meat not purchased from a farm I had familiarity with, tried to be as close to a locavore as possible, etc. (Even then I didn't manage to cut out processed things and didn't use the term "clean eater," which I think is obnoxious, or preach to others about how my eating was better.)
Now I've relaxed, although I do still try to get most of my meat in such a way (ethical reasons), although I will buy frozen fish and eat at restaurants. I also try to eat as much produce as possible that's local and in season, but have accepted that being too hardcore about this would mean that I don't eat nearly enough produce in much of the year (I'm in Chicago, so not much is locally in-season in, say, January or even April).
I also intentionally include some foods that are processed (in a carton, sold in a store, often manufactured far away) in my diet because I think they are healthy. Among these (in addition to those mentioned above) are smoked fish, tinned herring/sardines, and greek yogurt (which I could make myself, but I see no reason why I shouldn't enjoy the convenience and excellent taste of Fage et al.). I also do purchase dried pasta and oatmeal and dried beans and sometimes even (gasp!) canned beans and canned tomatoes, olive oil and vinegars, olives and cheeses (I like fancy cheeses, so am not willing to limit it to what I could make myself even if I wished to be bothered), so on.
More controversially, perhaps, I see no reason why a high-quality commercially available ice cream or gelato would be worse than one I happened to make at home (as back in the day I would have done, and might still if I ever get out my ice cream maker, since it's fun). I also think it's irrational to consider food I make myself "clean" and that from the same ingredients at a restaurant or from a caterer or even packaged in a store (whether that means by WF that day or from a packaged maker that I approve of) unclean. I enjoy cooking (and wasting money at my favorite lunch places) so tend not to buy packaged meals, but I think getting snobby about all of them in general as if the ingredients were all the same and different from what you might make is foolish.
So not only is "processed" not a term that people tend to use in a consistent or rational way, but it involves a huge and varied bunch of stuff that cannot be generalized about. Thus, I wish people would be more specific as to what they mean when they say it's bad. If not, again, I'm not sure why Fage plain greek yogurt or my carton of eggs from a local farm or Maytag blue cheese is so terrible.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »In which post were you told to stuff your face with chips and ice cream.
She wasn't. And, according to her, she didn't interpret people's comments that way.
Even though people said "you can eat chips and ice cream" and she said "stuff my face with chips and ice cream".
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I try not to eat anything that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper
Who sells you eggs without a carton or unwrapped meat? In my state (and I think most states), any meat sold commercially--including direct by a farm or through a farm-based CSA--also must be "processed" by a processor. But even if that weren't so I imagine they'd wrap it.
If you raise your own meat I guess that's an exception. I live in a city, so zoning laws (among other things, like our condo regulations and space issues and perhaps past calumnies against cows) preclude that.
I have read many of your posts in the past. I know that you are intelligent to understand what that poster meant. Hopefully you just weren't trying to humiliate her.
In my lifetime I have tried to lose weight and most of that time I did it in an unhealthy manner. As a result I have given up and gained the weight back.
For the past couple of years however I have changed that mentality. I have researched and through trial and error I have finally found a way to lose weight and improve health.
I think everyone needs that chance to figure out how to make this work long term without people making them feel like fools. If the poster is serious about "changing" they will eventually figure it out.
It is one thing to give advice and try to help...it is quite another trying to give that help through humiliation.
If I have misunderstood your point then I am sorry but when I read it my thoughts were that it was humiliating question.
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Monklady123 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Monklady123 wrote: »Monklady123 wrote: »For me, saying I'll eat "clean" or I'll "cut out processed foods" means getting rid of the things in my diet that have chemicals listed in the ingredients. I don't care what studies someone might throw at me to show that such-and-such additive in that boxed meal isn't bad for us... I want to cut them out. It makes me feel good to know that I'm cooking food for my family that doesn't have all those additives. Many boxed foods or mixes are also full of sodium and I'd rather cook from scratch, add a bit of salt, then have the eaters add their own salt or seasonings. This is how my family can even eat chili for example, with one who likes his chili SPICY(!) omg... and another who likes is "pretty spicy", and one who wants no spice, and one who would like a teeny bit. ugh. lol So I make my own, with all ingredients that I can pronounce.
For the person up-thread who was arguing that beef is "processed" -- why do some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? Seems silly when you know very well what we're talking about when we say "processed food". Of course a steak in the store has been "processed" in some way -- the cow has been killed, then butchered, then packaged, and brought to the store. That's "processing". But obviously that's not the same thing as a frozen dinner or canned soup that has unpronounceable ingredients. lol
This fascinates me. I have a few frozen meals in the freezer for a quick lunch at work if I don't have any leftovers to bring. I don't find them filling so I usually supplement with a salad, or extra veggies or protein from my work cafeteria, but they work in a pinch.
Here's a Healthy choice dinner and its ingredients. What exactly is so evil on this list, that wouldn't be also in the common ingredients one would use at home if you made baked ziti from scratch? Because I made rigatoni and meat sauce at home last night and I used pretty much the exact same ingredients: canned tomato sauces, rigatoni noodles, Italian sausage and ground beef, dried and fresh spices, fresh grated Parmesan cheese.
Yes, that's one reason it's called "healthy choice". lol. You'll notice that I began my comment with the words "for me". So I'm happy that you are choosing pre-made meals that have good things in them. I wasn't. So FOR ME clean eating means cutting out processed food which lots of chemical-sounding ingredients. So instead of buying a box of Hamburger Helper which includes things like MSG, "disodium guanylate" (no I didn't have that memorized, I looked it up), a large amount of salt, and several dyes, I can make it at home with meat, fresh or canned tomatoes depending on the season, tomato paste (ingredients: tomatoes), spices and the pasta of my choice.
And for whoever said they hate the "ingredients I can pronounce" argument, I'm wondering why? FOR ME I like to understand what I'm eating. Why does that bother you? You are free to buy boxed meals, and packaged cookies if you wish. Why are you so defensive about what *I* choose to do?
You could start learning what things mean that you don't know yet instead of rejecting them outright.
Do you know what riboflavin is? Or Ascorbic acid?
Lol, yes of course I do. But I didn't mention either of those, did I? I said "MSG" and "disodium guanylate" and lots of sodium, and several dyes.
Disodium guanylate is extracted from dried fish and dried seaweed. So, you know, "natural". Just like these natural blueberries, which as @lemonsnowdrop was pointing out, contain a lot of molecules that perhaps the average person would not be able to pronounce or discern whether they are good or bad from just a list.
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Why is everyone obsessed with what Mr. Clean eats? His diet isn't making him stay the same age, it's the chemicals in the cleaners. So much ignorance.0
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booksandchocolate12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »In which post were you told to stuff your face with chips and ice cream.
She wasn't. And, according to her, she didn't interpret people's comments that way.
Even though people said "you can eat chips and ice cream" and she said "stuff my face with chips and ice cream".
I think your last sentence is such a key point. I think what people should be focusing on is the habits of how an individual person consumes "processed" or "unclean" foods, rather than the individual components of those foods. You know, that pesky context and dosage...
For me, I work them into my overall diet, I don't binge eat them, I don't even really eat them to excess. I have never had issues with stopping eating a certain food, my issue was eating a little too much of all the foods I liked, and not moving as much. But if a person does tend to over eat a certain food, then restrictions may be helpful, until that person learns to moderate the food. That doesn't, however, make the food "bad" or even unadvisable for all people. It's just something the individual needs to learn to moderate.
I just don't understand why that is so hard for people to understand and why "it's ok to eat chips and ice cream" turns into "you eat nothing but chips and ice cream".
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When I first started on MFP and saw all this "Clean eating" talk, I quickly figured out they weren't talking kosher v not, so I googled, but came up with no real definition. Then, I started a thread to ask what, specifically, it meant.
Holy God, did I ask the wrong question. I didn't realize what would ensue, lol.
"Clean" means a variety of things to different people. So does "in moderation." Both terms are used a LOT, but neither one actually means anything. If you want to know what someone means, you have to ask...but best to not. The fur will fly. Best to just think of "clean" as "my definition of healthy" and "in moderation" as "my definition of a healthy amount."
I'm so sorry you're getting baited and attacked.
That shouldn't happen. It's technically against the MFP rules.
Stick with what the dietitian gave you. The world will not end and you aren't doomed to being fat if you eliminate chips. People have successfully lost weight without them.
Lol. Yeah. Wishing I never asked anything. Everyone can do what they want. Eating is always going have different opinions from person to person. But what makes a person believe that their way is set in stone. Yeah maybe it works but another person may do it differently and still lose weight. Their another re tons of ways to lose weight as long another res your calorie consumption is within your goal range. I only asked for opinions based off what society thinks another rest clean eating and that if I st weight by cutting out certain carbs and sugars would I gain back if I later added them back in...then the attacking began. I have already had numerous different people private messaging me telling me beware lol. Man I never expected this. But to each their own. They act like I'm a amateur When I have lost the weight before in different ways. I know how to lose it. I was just asking about a certain diet0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I try not to eat anything that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper
Who sells you eggs without a carton or unwrapped meat? In my state (and I think most states), any meat sold commercially--including direct by a farm or through a farm-based CSA--also must be "processed" by a processor. But even if that weren't so I imagine they'd wrap it.
If you raise your own meat I guess that's an exception. I live in a city, so zoning laws (among other things, like our condo regulations and space issues and perhaps past calumnies against cows) preclude that.
I have read many of your posts in the past. I know that you are intelligent to understand what that poster meant. Hopefully you just weren't trying to humiliate her.
In my lifetime I have tried to lose weight and most of that time I did it in an unhealthy manner. As a result I have given up and gained the weight back.
For the past couple of years however I have changed that mentality. I have researched and through trial and error I have finally found a way to lose weight and improve health.
I think everyone needs that chance to figure out how to make this work long term without people making them feel like fools. If the poster is serious about "changing" they will eventually figure it out.
It is one thing to give advice and try to help...it is quite another trying to give that help through humiliation.
If I have misunderstood your point then I am sorry but when I read it my thoughts were that it was humiliating question.
@lemurcat12 is perfectly capable of responding to this post, and will do so far more eloquently than I am about to, but if you read back through the entire thread, she wasn't posting that in response to the OP, it was to this comment:When I hear clean eating, I think of eating things that are considered whole and organic, raw veggies, meat without all the hormones (grass-fed beef for example), etc. I try not to eat anything that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper, or has any ingredient that sounds scientific.
That said, the above is where this has taken me. When I started, it was eat WTF ever I want, just it macros and stay at calorie deficit goal. This works. But it made me think more about what kinds of foods I was putting into my body, not just how much of it.
And I'm sure specifically this sentence I try not to eat anything that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper, or has any ingredient that sounds scientific.
The point I think lemurcat was trying to make was that these sort of arbitrary rules really are silly, because everything comes in a package or is processed in some way. It's easy for everyone to say, "oh you know what I meant" but if you look through the vast number of threads on this topic, you will find that no, there is not one clear definition of what "clean" or "processed" is. Here are some examples I personally have seen, many of them in this thread:
Nothing in a package
Nothing besides in its natural state (seriously, that's a joke, right?).
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing that has chemicals.
Nothing I can't pronounce.
And bringing this back to the OP - yes, I think this thread got a little hostile early. It is one thing to ask the repeat posters who advocate for clean eating for their scientific sources, it's another to ask someone who has good intentions who is trying to follow the advice she got from her friends, or Pinterest, or Dr. Oz, or whomever - and she doesn't have a clear understanding of what that means. However, pointing out that the term "clean eating" is so vague and nebulous, and that you don't HAVE to eat clean in order to lose weight, is not trying to humiliate her or attack her.
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