CI/CO vs Clean Eating
Options
Replies
-
kshama2001 wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »I'm personally a proponent of "clean eating" -- but that's because I feel a ton better when I eat whole foods and hit my targets more easily (in fact, MUCH more easily).
Also just want to say there's a huge difference between weight and overall health. A slightly overweight person who eats a balanced, nutritious diet is going to be healthier/happier than a skinny dude who only eats hot pockets. That's just science.
Have you read this thread at all?
Who in here has said to just eat hot pockets?
Round and round we go...
I... I.... used to eat a primarily hot pocket-based diet and I'm not terribly proud of it
. Needless to say radical change was needed.
But would you say that someone who eats a varied and balanced diet which meets nutritional needs, leads an active lifestyle, and occasionally a Hot Pocket, would be less healthy or feel worse than you, who never eats Hot Pockets?
Oh no, of course not. I'm not crazy.
I had one of these a month ago and I'm still happy and healthy:
[yummy doughnut chicken sandwich]
Okay, that is all anyone here on these boards is arguing when we argue moderation. We are saying that you can have a diet that consists mainly of nutrient-dense foods (hate the word clean) and have some "junk" food in moderation and still be perfectly healthy.
That looks delicious, btw.
What I object to is the posts that say "All you need is CICO" and stop there, without making all the good points about moderation and balanced diet that have been made on this thread. I started taking screenshots of these posts because lemurcat and others weren't familiar with them but am in forum jail for posting a screenshot on another thread, so won't be posting screenshots again, but you'll see them if you look.
Oh, how horrible that you can't control what other people say.
The truth is that all you NEED is CICO to lose weight.
Weight management and NUTRITION management are two different issues.
Do I personally believe they should be separated? NO.
Here's the thing YOU don't get. Some newbs? They're overwhelmed. They need baby steps. Getting a handle on simply using a food scale and logging everything is a big step for them. Making one change at a time is all they can handle.
There are plenty of other posts on here emphasizing the importance of nutrition. They'll get the information. They don't need to be hit over the head with a sledgehammer right away. Sometimes? Sure. Someone is ready for everything. Sometimes? Just telling someone to create a deficit so they START SOMEWHERE by taking the first step is just what's needed.
0 -
Is a cheeto ever healthy? ... ... If I eat one I eat 20 and want more; vanishing caloric density; it makes me thirsty / hungrier, leading to terrible decisions. The item itself may be fine as part of some CI/CO calculation if I eat two of them and move to a carrot, but it was designed for me really want another making that carrot seem as bland as ever.
That has to factor into any equation about whether or not to eat something, right?
I think this side of things gets waaaaaay overlooked. There are people being paid a schwack of money to make these foods / hijack taste buds in order to make owners of those companies even more money.
I can't believe a snack company would try to make their product taste good....0 -
Fyi though I think I'm out too. Things were going along more or less nicely earlier and meh not so much anymore0
-
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Is a cheeto ever healthy? ... ... If I eat one I eat 20 and want more; vanishing caloric density; it makes me thirsty / hungrier, leading to terrible decisions. The item itself may be fine as part of some CI/CO calculation if I eat two of them and move to a carrot, but it was designed for me really want another making that carrot seem as bland as ever.
That has to factor into any equation about whether or not to eat something, right?
For some, perhaps. But that has to do with the moderation aspect, and not the fact the Cheetos are "unhealthy" in the context of a balanced diet.
Also, who the eff only eats 2 Cheetos? If I eat Cheetos, I'm going to make them worth my while, and you bet your butt that they'll fit into my day.
A lot of people will do that and end up hungry because that food tends not to fill a lot of people up. Then some of them might go over cal targets and think something's wrong with them. But nothing's wrong with them that making different choices won't help with.
But see, if I've met my protein/fat goals for the day, or if I combine the Cheetos with a food with protein (such as a tuna salad sandwich on whole grain bread), the Cheetos don't make me hungrier. If I tried to make a meal out of Cheetos themselves, well, I'd have a bad time. Because who wants to eat pure carbs for lunch.
If you sit down in front of the TV with a bag of Cheetos (or popcorn, or container of ice cream, or a huge bowl of cajun roasted chickpeas - whatever), and eat mindlessly until the bag/container is gone, then your issue is with moderation.0 -
-
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Is a cheeto ever healthy? ... ... If I eat one I eat 20 and want more; vanishing caloric density; it makes me thirsty / hungrier, leading to terrible decisions. The item itself may be fine as part of some CI/CO calculation if I eat two of them and move to a carrot, but it was designed for me really want another making that carrot seem as bland as ever.
That has to factor into any equation about whether or not to eat something, right?
I think this side of things gets waaaaaay overlooked. There are people being paid a schwack of money to make these foods / hijack taste buds in order to make owners of those companies even more money.
I can't believe a snack company would try to make their product taste good....
See my later reply to you. Anyway yeah outie0 -
I have eaten a healthful diet consisting of whole foods all my life. It's a cultural thing and not nutritional wisdom.
When I started to overeat for about half a dozen of different reasons and started to gain a lot of weight for the first time in my life, I looked just as frumpy and lumpy as the people who got overweight from eating mostly processed foods.
So far I lost 65 pounds and the frumpy and lumpy is disappearing. I would think that the same would happen to a person who lost 65 pounds eating mostly whatever made them fat, just in moderate portions.
In my experience exercise with or after weight loss is what makes us look fit and lean ( of course a healthy diet might help a bit, bit not significantly ) while a healthy diet directly influences our state of health and that in return affects all aspects of life, maybe even the way we look.0 -
Is a cheeto ever healthy? ... ... If I eat one I eat 20 and want more; vanishing caloric density; it makes me thirsty / hungrier, leading to terrible decisions. The item itself may be fine as part of some CI/CO calculation if I eat two of them and move to a carrot, but it was designed for me really want another making that carrot seem as bland as ever.
That has to factor into any equation about whether or not to eat something, right?
I think this side of things gets waaaaaay overlooked. There are people being paid a schwack of money to make these foods / hijack taste buds in order to make owners of those companies even more money.
would you eat Cheetos that tasted like crap??? If I told you I had a super nutritious food that would deliver 25% of your micros in one sitting, but it tasted like the inside of a garbage can, would you eat it, because nutrition?0 -
Is a cheeto ever healthy? ... ... If I eat one I eat 20 and want more; vanishing caloric density; it makes me thirsty / hungrier, leading to terrible decisions. The item itself may be fine as part of some CI/CO calculation if I eat two of them and move to a carrot, but it was designed for me really want another making that carrot seem as bland as ever.
That has to factor into any equation about whether or not to eat something, right?
Meh. I love Cheetos (well, we get the Trader Joe's version). I dunno. Have I become a special snowflake? I've eaten a single one to taste it and gone on my merry way. I did the same thing with their insanely delicious Baconesque popcorn (which is a white cheddar popcorn with a smoky flavor -- it's seriously yummy).
I'm sure both of these things were designed to be delicious.
However, I am a rational being. I don't particularly ever think of my willpower, but I do think of... I don't know... my sense of ... I don't know how to put this... I know... I mean GROK... how many calories my body needs to achieve a goal I've set out to achieve. Having more of either of those things at that point in time would not have been conducive to achieving my goal, so it wasn't a notion I entertained at all. They're an option to be fit into another day, for sure.
I spent a lot of my life not understanding, on a fundamental level, that my body worked on an energy system. Oh, I knew about calories, but I didn't really GET it. I didn't get how I could manage it like I manage a checkbook. It just never clicked for me.
A lot of us think we are at the mercy of certain hormones and things like that, but after recently reading some research that showed just how easily some of those things are manipulated through even psychological means, I'm more convinced than ever that this is really all a head, habit, planning, and discipline game.
0 -
isulo_kura wrote: »Why do these boards always have to always do extremes? Why can't I follow CICO while mainly eating clean (even though that's a stupid classification)
Maybe you are reading the wrong threads ?
I have been here for over 2 years and no one has ever told me I cannot do both. Eating a healthy diet is great, but for weight loss it also has to be combined with CICO.
There are many people here in MFP whole do exactly that, but they kind of stay in the shadows because many of us are getting tired of being told what to eat and what not.
For example I have not had a chain restaurant hamburger in over 25 years ( personal preference ) yet, I was told often that I should enjoy a decent burger and fries , because they are " oh so, nom, nom, nom " and because it was the only way to eat " sustainably " and was shot down, because frankly I don't want a burger and don't find them · nom " and eat sustainably..
So , don't get upset and save your energy for doing what works for you and if that is CICO and " clean " ( I also dislike that word ) eating then that is what you should do to be successful and to hell with the others.......no disrespect intended.
0 -
Is a cheeto ever healthy? ... ... If I eat one I eat 20 and want more; vanishing caloric density; it makes me thirsty / hungrier, leading to terrible decisions. The item itself may be fine as part of some CI/CO calculation if I eat two of them and move to a carrot, but it was designed for me really want another making that carrot seem as bland as ever.
That has to factor into any equation about whether or not to eat something, right?
Extremely good point. You might find this book interesting. It was available in my library system:
Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us
Q. How did you land on salt, sugar, and fat as your way to write about the industry? Why these three ingredients?
A. I’d been investigating a surge in deadly outbreaks of E. coli in meat when an industry source, a microbiologist, suggested that if I wanted to see an even bigger public health hazard, I should look at what food companies were intentionally adding to their products, starting with salt. And sure enough, when I looked at this--by gaining access to high level industry officials and a trove of sensitive, internal records--a window opened on how aggressive the industry was wielding not only salt, but sugar and fat, too. These are the pillars of processed foods, the three ingredients without which there would be no processed foods. Salt, sugar and fat drive consumption by adding flavor and allure. But surprisingly, they also mask bitter flavors that develop in the manufacturing process. They enable these foods to sit in warehouses or on the grocery shelf for months. And, most critically to the industry's financial success, they are very inexpensive.
Q. So, how big is the processed food industry, exactly? What kind of scale are we talking about here?
A. Huge. Grocery sales now top $1 trillion a year in the U.S., with more than 300 manufacturers employing 1.4 million workers, or 12 percent of all American manufacturing jobs. Global sales exceed $3 trillion. But the figure I find most revealing is 60,000: That’s the number of different products found on the shelves of our largest supermarkets.
Q. How did this get so big?
A. The food processing industry is more than a century old--if you count the invention of breakfast cereals--so it’s been steady growth. But things really took off in the 1950s with the promotion of convenience foods whose design and marketing was aimed at the increasing numbers of families with both parents working outside the home. The industry's expansion, since then, has been entirely unrestrained. While food safety is heavily regulated, the government has been industry's best friend and partner in encouraging Americans to become more dependent on processed foods.
Q. What three things should a health-conscious supermarket shopper keep in mind?
A. The most alluring products--those with the highest amounts of salt, sugar and fat--are strategically placed at eye-level on the grocery shelf. You typically have to stoop down to find, say, plain oatmeal. (Healthier products are generally up high or down low.) Companies also play the better-nutrition card by plastering their packaging with terms like "all natural," "contains whole grains," “contains real fruit juice,” and "lean," which belie the true contents of the products. Reading labels is not easy. Only since the 1990s have the manufacturers even been required to reveal the true salt, sugar, fat and caloric loads of their products, which are itemized in a box called the "nutrient facts." But one game that many companies still play is to divide these numbers in half, or even thirds, by reporting this critical information per serving--which are typically tiny portions. In particular, they do this for cookies and chips, knowing that most people can't resist eating the entire three-serving bag. Check it out sometime. See how many “servings” that little bag of chips contains.
0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Is a cheeto ever healthy? ... ... If I eat one I eat 20 and want more; vanishing caloric density; it makes me thirsty / hungrier, leading to terrible decisions. The item itself may be fine as part of some CI/CO calculation if I eat two of them and move to a carrot, but it was designed for me really want another making that carrot seem as bland as ever.
That has to factor into any equation about whether or not to eat something, right?
Extremely good point. You might find this book interesting. It was available in my library system:
Salt Sugar Fat: How the Food Giants Hooked Us
Q. How did you land on salt, sugar, and fat as your way to write about the industry? Why these three ingredients?
A. I’d been investigating a surge in deadly outbreaks of E. coli in meat when an industry source, a microbiologist, suggested that if I wanted to see an even bigger public health hazard, I should look at what food companies were intentionally adding to their products, starting with salt. And sure enough, when I looked at this--by gaining access to high level industry officials and a trove of sensitive, internal records--a window opened on how aggressive the industry was wielding not only salt, but sugar and fat, too. These are the pillars of processed foods, the three ingredients without which there would be no processed foods. Salt, sugar and fat drive consumption by adding flavor and allure. But surprisingly, they also mask bitter flavors that develop in the manufacturing process. They enable these foods to sit in warehouses or on the grocery shelf for months. And, most critically to the industry's financial success, they are very inexpensive.
Q. So, how big is the processed food industry, exactly? What kind of scale are we talking about here?
A. Huge. Grocery sales now top $1 trillion a year in the U.S., with more than 300 manufacturers employing 1.4 million workers, or 12 percent of all American manufacturing jobs. Global sales exceed $3 trillion. But the figure I find most revealing is 60,000: That’s the number of different products found on the shelves of our largest supermarkets.
Q. How did this get so big?
A. The food processing industry is more than a century old--if you count the invention of breakfast cereals--so it’s been steady growth. But things really took off in the 1950s with the promotion of convenience foods whose design and marketing was aimed at the increasing numbers of families with both parents working outside the home. The industry's expansion, since then, has been entirely unrestrained. While food safety is heavily regulated, the government has been industry's best friend and partner in encouraging Americans to become more dependent on processed foods.
Q. What three things should a health-conscious supermarket shopper keep in mind?
A. The most alluring products--those with the highest amounts of salt, sugar and fat--are strategically placed at eye-level on the grocery shelf. You typically have to stoop down to find, say, plain oatmeal. (Healthier products are generally up high or down low.) Companies also play the better-nutrition card by plastering their packaging with terms like "all natural," "contains whole grains," “contains real fruit juice,” and "lean," which belie the true contents of the products. Reading labels is not easy. Only since the 1990s have the manufacturers even been required to reveal the true salt, sugar, fat and caloric loads of their products, which are itemized in a box called the "nutrient facts." But one game that many companies still play is to divide these numbers in half, or even thirds, by reporting this critical information per serving--which are typically tiny portions. In particular, they do this for cookies and chips, knowing that most people can't resist eating the entire three-serving bag. Check it out sometime. See how many “servings” that little bag of chips contains.
0 -
0 -
Oddly, as I've recently learned, it is pretty important to understand, sugar does not, in fact light up the dopamine receptors, but it looks like it does.
Don't think the science of happiness has done much hot pocket intake effects on depression studies.I'm personally a proponent of "clean eating" -- but that's because I feel a ton better when I eat whole foods and hit my targets more easily (in fact, MUCH more easily).
Also just want to say there's a huge difference between weight and overall health. A slightly overweight person who eats a balanced, nutritious diet is going to be healthier/happier than a skinny dude who only eats hot pockets. That's just science.
The fact that CI/CO ultimately affects weight is kind of irrelevant to overall health, until you're dealing in being overweight or underweight in a way that negatively affects your well-being.
Disclaimer: Well-read on the topic but no background nutrition or science. Grain of salt with things I say (or a lot of salt).
Plus I thought un-clean food activated all those dopamine receptors in the brain, so they must be happy.
no, that is just sugar...because sugar = cocaine...try to keep it all straight man...
0 -
You need that new thermographic microwave that shows hot and cold spots in the food cooking inside it.WinoGelato wrote: »
Don't think the science of happiness has done much hot pocket intake effects on depression studies.I'm personally a proponent of "clean eating" -- but that's because I feel a ton better when I eat whole foods and hit my targets more easily (in fact, MUCH more easily).
Also just want to say there's a huge difference between weight and overall health. A slightly overweight person who eats a balanced, nutritious diet is going to be healthier/happier than a skinny dude who only eats hot pockets. That's just science.
The fact that CI/CO ultimately affects weight is kind of irrelevant to overall health, until you're dealing in being overweight or underweight in a way that negatively affects your well-being.
Disclaimer: Well-read on the topic but no background nutrition or science. Grain of salt with things I say (or a lot of salt).
Plus I thought un-clean food activated all those dopamine receptors in the brain, so they must be happy.
Hot Pockets make me decidedly unhappy if I fail to let them cool before biting into them...
http://www.cnet.com/news/heat-map-microwave-gives-thermal-view-while-nuking-your-food/
0 -
Is a cheeto ever healthy? ... ... If I eat one I eat 20 and want more; vanishing caloric density; it makes me thirsty / hungrier, leading to terrible decisions. The item itself may be fine as part of some CI/CO calculation if I eat two of them and move to a carrot, but it was designed for me really want another making that carrot seem as bland as ever.
That has to factor into any equation about whether or not to eat something, right?
Yes. If you're starving to death, eating a cheeto is pretty darn healthy to eat, just as an extreme example.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 393 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.3K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 934 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions