CI/CO vs Clean Eating
half_moon
Posts: 807 Member
The ideal diet is to watch your intake of calories and limit the sugar, carbs, etc. that those calories comprise.
I see very often on these boards, however, that so long as people are going by the Calories In/Calories Out rule, you can really eat whatever you want.
If you are exercising and following a CI/CO with deficit, how does *what* you eat change your results?
So, if I was netting 1,300 calories a day, but everything I ate did not fall under a "Clean" diet, would my weight suffer? My body composition? Inviting anyone with experience, insight, or science to help explain.
I see very often on these boards, however, that so long as people are going by the Calories In/Calories Out rule, you can really eat whatever you want.
If you are exercising and following a CI/CO with deficit, how does *what* you eat change your results?
So, if I was netting 1,300 calories a day, but everything I ate did not fall under a "Clean" diet, would my weight suffer? My body composition? Inviting anyone with experience, insight, or science to help explain.
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There are people on this board who can explain it much better than I can, but in terms of mere calories, they are all equal. They are not equal however, in nutrient composition. So If you're eating at a caloric deficit, strictly from a calorie standpoint, you will lose weight. However, eating lean means, vegetables, and other nutrient-dense foods will obviously help fuel your body nutritiously than eating the same amount of calories in McDonald's hamburgers & fries. I try to follow the 80/20 rule, meaning that I eat 80 percent nutrient-dense foods and 20 percent treats/sweets, etc. That way I do not feel deprived of the sweets I love but I can still stick to a caloric deficit. I just plan for the treats within my daily calorie allotment. Hope that helps.0
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Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...
No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.- If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
- If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight
There are people on this board who can explain it much better than I can, but in terms of mere calories, they are all equal. They are not equal however, in nutrient composition.
What @Equus5374 saying here is correct (in bold). Different foods will have varying amounts of nutrients, for example, a donut doesn't have as much nutritional value compared to a potato.
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...
No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.- If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
- If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight
I suppose to extend that answer -- what about body composition? Scale aside, would a clean CI/CO eater look fit and active while a non clean CI/CO eater look frumpy and heavier?
I know that every person is different, etc. ( eg, I am lactose intolerant and any dairy would make me appear frumpy!) but generally, are the affects of a cleaner eater obvious externally?0 -
You do not need to eat "clean" to lose weight. You need to get adequate protein and calories for good body composition. In the long term, what you eat matters for the calories out part of the equation. If there are any foods you are intolerant to, but you continue eating them, over time, your hormones (body's messengers) will not work as effectively as they should and the foods you are intolerant to will not be metabolized efficiently and are more likely to cause: low energy, poor sleep, bad skin, gut problems, menstrual problems, and fat storage.0
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Calories in/calories out for weight loss. Nutrient dense food for health. Pay attention to both. Ditch the word "clean."0
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...
No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.- If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
- If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight
I suppose to extend that answer -- what about body composition? Scale aside, would a clean CI/CO eater look fit and active while a non clean CI/CO eater look frumpy and heavier?
I know that every person is different, etc. ( eg, I am lactose intolerant and any dairy would make me appear frumpy!) but generally, are the affects of a cleaner eater obvious externally?
Well, that's something I can't really answer because I've never 'ate clean'.
With CI/CO, the idea is to eat food with relatively high micronutrient density and then have the foods you enjoy, so that's going to be treats, chocolate etc. I think this is so we don't get bored easily, as a lot of people get bored eating 'clean' quite fast.
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You could eat "clean "and still gain weight. In fact, i know a vegan that was severely over weight. Its about overall calories. Not what you eat. You could eat 1300 calories of lettuce or 1300 calories of cookies and as far as weight loss goes, it would be the same.
I lost all my weight enjoying the foods i love, in moderation. Portion control. Calories in ~calories out. Eat at a deficit and youll lose weight. Eat at a surplus and you gain weight.
The foods you choose are up to you. It makes no difference as far as weight loss goes.0 -
Cos we haven't had this topic for at least 3 seconds...-3
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...
No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.- If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
- If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight
I suppose to extend that answer -- what about body composition? Scale aside, would a clean CI/CO eater look fit and active while a non clean CI/CO eater look frumpy and heavier?
I know that every person is different, etc. ( eg, I am lactose intolerant and any dairy would make me appear frumpy!) but generally, are the affects of a cleaner eater obvious externally?
No.0 -
You will generally find that eating clean will allow you to hit your macros easier and feel fuller (eat more food) than filling your daily allowance up with processed foods, takeaways, sweets etc. It gets to the point that those treats are almost not worth it, but can still easily be built into IIFYM so can be enjoyed in moderation. I eat "clean" about 80% of the time but still eat Microwave meals, Takeaways, chocolate etc and build them into my calorie/macro requirements. No harm done.0
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Without any form of exercise to stimulate maintaining muscle, both someone in a calorie restricted diet (CICO is science truth, not a diet) and a clean eater are likely to have little difference in body composition, other than genetic factors.
If both are doing some exercise to maintain the muscle, the if one is eating around .8 g / lb lean body mass or more and the other is eating less that amount, the one eating less will probably have less muscle mass composition at the end.0 -
Forgot to add to my above post. If I ate 3000 cals worth of Pizza all day I would be happy, feel full and still loose weight (because it's below my TDEE). However, eating Pizza all day will probably not get me close to my protein requirements (but way over my Fats and carbs). So, I can enjoy Pizza etc, but I need to balance it out with other macros.0
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Clean eating is essential to keep our rainbow sparkled souls free of flame-baiters
-Happy Rainbows and Unicorn Sparkles MFP Welcome Crew
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...
No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.- If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
- If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight
I suppose to extend that answer -- what about body composition? Scale aside, would a clean CI/CO eater look fit and active while a non clean CI/CO eater look frumpy and heavier?
I know that every person is different, etc. ( eg, I am lactose intolerant and any dairy would make me appear frumpy!) but generally, are the affects of a cleaner eater obvious externally?
Nope. Though setting a reasonable protein goal and trying to meet that during weight loss will help you retain muscle mass (even better if you lift weights while losing), which can make your body look nicer when you reach your goal weight.
Whether you meet your macros with "clean" or "dirty" foods has no bearing on your end result.
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It all depends on how good you want to feel. I've eaten super clean foods (by my definition) and I feel awesome. Endless energy, no caffeine needed, feeling amazing, etc. People don't realize how good they can feel when they get rid of the foods that affect their body, mind, and attitude.
If you want, just experiment. For dinner, have a few slices of pizza and a big bowl of ice cream for dinner and see how you feel in the morning. Wait a few days and have the same foods you ate during the day when you had pizza and ice cream but instead of pizza and ice cream, eat a massive salad with your choice of protein (lean meat, beans, quinoa, etc) along with some tea and see how you feel the following morning.
Some people can get away with the whole "everything in moderation" when it comes to "junk food". Other people can't. Just like a former alcoholic can't just have a sip or a former cocaine addict can't just have one line.
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It isn't a mutually exclusive thing to consider both.
I eat moderate carb higher protein for my nutrient mix. I like fibrous veggies for my carbs instead of pasta or rice.
It is all still subject to eating less than you burn off.
I would read up on what foods you like and what is best for you, then find a good mix you can eat and enjoy!
Some say to eat 500 calories less than you need a day, and burn off 500 calories a day... And there goes about 2 pounds a week that easily.
Good luck!0 -
TrailBlazinMN wrote: »It all depends on how good you want to feel. I've eaten super clean foods (by my definition) and I feel awesome. Endless energy, no caffeine needed, feeling amazing, etc. People don't realize how good they can feel when they get rid of the foods that affect their body, mind, and attitude.
If you want, just experiment. For dinner, have a few slices of pizza and a big bowl of ice cream for dinner and see how you feel in the morning. Wait a few days and have the same foods you ate during the day when you had pizza and ice cream but instead of pizza and ice cream, eat a massive salad with your choice of protein (lean meat, beans, quinoa, etc) along with some tea and see how you feel the following morning.
Some people can get away with the whole "everything in moderation" when it comes to "junk food". Other people can't. Just like a former alcoholic can't just have a sip or a former cocaine addict can't just have one line.
So if someone eats mostly "clean" foods with some "dirty" treats thrown in here and there, then they will feel worse than someone who never has the treats?
Or are you thinking the ever-popular strawman theory that MFPers who lobby for IIFYM/flexible dieting eat nothing but doughnuts and Pop Tarts all day long with no regards to nutrition?0 -
SherryTeach wrote: »Calories in/calories out for weight loss. Nutrient dense food for health. Pay attention to both. Ditch the word "clean."
Succinct and true. End of thread.
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Welp, glad to see this thread is going the usual route.
Anyone got an extra bingo marker?-1 -
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Just here for the comments.
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Why do these boards always have to always do extremes? Why can't I follow CICO while mainly eating clean (even though that's a stupid classification)0
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My understanding: Calories are calories, no matter the source. If you eat more calories than you burn, then you'll gain weight. However, if you get all your calories over a long period of time from an unbalanced diet (say, 1300 calories from chocolate cake and nothing else), you will probably not get all the nutrients you need to stay healthy/build muscle. Think of sailors during the 15th-17th centuries who'd get scurvy from not having enough diversity in their diets while at sea.
I had been eating reasonably well in terms of calories and in a reasonably diverse diet, but this winter I kept getting sick. The doctor did blood work, and found I was low on vitamin D and protein. Turns out, eating as low protein as my husband prefers is not healthy for my particular body. Even though my weight was steady (as I wanted), I wasn't eating right *for me*.
I suppose the idea of "clean eating" can be helpful on a person by person basis, but since everyone decides what is "good" "clean" food for themselves, there really isn't a clear and solid definition of what it is.0 -
isulo_kura wrote: »Why do these boards always have to always do extremes? Why can't I follow CICO while mainly eating clean (even though that's a stupid classification)
That's not stupid. That's exactly what I do to fit my calorie/macro and micronutrient requirements. It's up to other people how they wish to do it.0 -
In order to lose weight, a calorie deficit is the only requirement. People tend to confuse different goals when it comes to all of this. Here's a simple list to get the basic ideas/goals organized:
~For weight loss: calories in < calories out.
~For body composition: get enough protein and do some sort of progressive resistance training routine.
~For overall health: get enough fat, micronutrients (especially fiber), water, sleep, rest/recovery, maybe some cardio.
~For your sanity: don't eliminate a whole group of foods for no medical reason.
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Sorry, I just realised you meant "eating clean" was a stupid "classification". Which I sort of agree with (But we all know what each other means
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »TrailBlazinMN wrote: »It all depends on how good you want to feel. I've eaten super clean foods (by my definition) and I feel awesome. Endless energy, no caffeine needed, feeling amazing, etc. People don't realize how good they can feel when they get rid of the foods that affect their body, mind, and attitude.
If you want, just experiment. For dinner, have a few slices of pizza and a big bowl of ice cream for dinner and see how you feel in the morning. Wait a few days and have the same foods you ate during the day when you had pizza and ice cream but instead of pizza and ice cream, eat a massive salad with your choice of protein (lean meat, beans, quinoa, etc) along with some tea and see how you feel the following morning.
Some people can get away with the whole "everything in moderation" when it comes to "junk food". Other people can't. Just like a former alcoholic can't just have a sip or a former cocaine addict can't just have one line.
So if someone eats mostly "clean" foods with some "dirty" treats thrown in here and there, then they will feel worse than someone who never has the treats?
Or are you thinking the ever-popular strawman theory that MFPers who lobby for IIFYM/flexible dieting eat nothing but doughnuts and Pop Tarts all day long with no regards to nutrition?
It's all about goals. Some people don't care too much about being and feeling the best they possibly can. They just want to lose weight. Will "dirty" treats really affect someone's performance and overall well-being? Who knows. They would have to experiment and find out.
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This discussion has been closed.
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