CI/CO vs Clean Eating

half_moon

The ideal diet is to watch your intake of calories and limit the sugar, carbs, etc. that those calories comprise.

I see very often on these boards, however, that so long as people are going by the Calories In/Calories Out rule, you can really eat whatever you want.

If you are exercising and following a CI/CO with deficit, how does *what* you eat change your results?

So, if I was netting 1,300 calories a day, but everything I ate did not fall under a "Clean" diet, would my weight suffer? My body composition? Inviting anyone with experience, insight, or science to help explain.

Equus5374

There are people on this board who can explain it much better than I can, but in terms of mere calories, they are all equal. They are not equal however, in nutrient composition. So If you're eating at a caloric deficit, strictly from a calorie standpoint, you will lose weight. However, eating lean means, vegetables, and other nutrient-dense foods will obviously help fuel your body nutritiously than eating the same amount of calories in McDonald's hamburgers & fries. I try to follow the 80/20 rule, meaning that I eat 80 percent nutrient-dense foods and 20 percent treats/sweets, etc. That way I do not feel deprived of the sweets I love but I can still stick to a caloric deficit. I just plan for the treats within my daily calorie allotment. Hope that helps.

IsaackGMOON

Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...

No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.

• If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
• If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight

Equus5374 wrote: »

There are people on this board who can explain it much better than I can, but in terms of mere calories, they are all equal. They are not equal however, in nutrient composition.

What @Equus5374 saying here is correct (in bold). Different foods will have varying amounts of nutrients, for example, a donut doesn't have as much nutritional value compared to a potato.

half_moon

IsaackGMOON wrote: »

Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...

No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.

• If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
• If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight

I suppose to extend that answer -- what about body composition? Scale aside, would a clean CI/CO eater look fit and active while a non clean CI/CO eater look frumpy and heavier?

I know that every person is different, etc. ( eg, I am lactose intolerant and any dairy would make me appear frumpy!) but generally, are the affects of a cleaner eater obvious externally?

miriamtob

You do not need to eat "clean" to lose weight. You need to get adequate protein and calories for good body composition. In the long term, what you eat matters for the calories out part of the equation. If there are any foods you are intolerant to, but you continue eating them, over time, your hormones (body's messengers) will not work as effectively as they should and the foods you are intolerant to will not be metabolized efficiently and are more likely to cause: low energy, poor sleep, bad skin, gut problems, menstrual problems, and fat storage.

SherryTeach

Calories in/calories out for weight loss. Nutrient dense food for health. Pay attention to both. Ditch the word "clean."

IsaackGMOON

half_moon wrote: »

IsaackGMOON wrote: »

Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...

No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.

• If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
• If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight

I suppose to extend that answer -- what about body composition? Scale aside, would a clean CI/CO eater look fit and active while a non clean CI/CO eater look frumpy and heavier?

I know that every person is different, etc. ( eg, I am lactose intolerant and any dairy would make me appear frumpy!) but generally, are the affects of a cleaner eater obvious externally?

Well, that's something I can't really answer because I've never 'ate clean'.

With CI/CO, the idea is to eat food with relatively high micronutrient density and then have the foods you enjoy, so that's going to be treats, chocolate etc. I think this is so we don't get bored easily, as a lot of people get bored eating 'clean' quite fast.

zoeysasha37

You could eat "clean "and still gain weight. In fact, i know a vegan that was severely over weight. Its about overall calories. Not what you eat. You could eat 1300 calories of lettuce or 1300 calories of cookies and as far as weight loss goes, it would be the same.
I lost all my weight enjoying the foods i love, in moderation. Portion control. Calories in ~calories out. Eat at a deficit and youll lose weight. Eat at a surplus and you gain weight.
The foods you choose are up to you. It makes no difference as far as weight loss goes.

TavistockToad

Cos we haven't had this topic for at least 3 seconds...

TheVirgoddess

half_moon wrote: »

IsaackGMOON wrote: »

Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...

No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.

• If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
• If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight

I suppose to extend that answer -- what about body composition? Scale aside, would a clean CI/CO eater look fit and active while a non clean CI/CO eater look frumpy and heavier?

I know that every person is different, etc. ( eg, I am lactose intolerant and any dairy would make me appear frumpy!) but generally, are the affects of a cleaner eater obvious externally?

No.

slideaway1

You will generally find that eating clean will allow you to hit your macros easier and feel fuller (eat more food) than filling your daily allowance up with processed foods, takeaways, sweets etc. It gets to the point that those treats are almost not worth it, but can still easily be built into IIFYM so can be enjoyed in moderation. I eat "clean" about 80% of the time but still eat Microwave meals, Takeaways, chocolate etc and build them into my calorie/macro requirements. No harm done.

senecarr

Without any form of exercise to stimulate maintaining muscle, both someone in a calorie restricted diet (CICO is science truth, not a diet) and a clean eater are likely to have little difference in body composition, other than genetic factors.
If both are doing some exercise to maintain the muscle, the if one is eating around .8 g / lb lean body mass or more and the other is eating less that amount, the one eating less will probably have less muscle mass composition at the end.

slideaway1

Forgot to add to my above post. If I ate 3000 cals worth of Pizza all day I would be happy, feel full and still loose weight (because it's below my TDEE). However, eating Pizza all day will probably not get me close to my protein requirements (but way over my Fats and carbs). So, I can enjoy Pizza etc, but I need to balance it out with other macros.

eric_sg61

Clean eating is essential to keep our rainbow sparkled souls free of flame-baiters
-Happy Rainbows and Unicorn Sparkles MFP Welcome Crew

Alyssa_Is_LosingIt

half_moon wrote: »

IsaackGMOON wrote: »

Thread is gonna go off in 3... 2... 1...

No, your weight would not suffer. Because losing weight and gaining boils down to calories in vs calories out. It doesn't come down to whether you eat 'clean'.

• If you eat in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight
• If you eat in a caloric surplus, you will gain weight

I suppose to extend that answer -- what about body composition? Scale aside, would a clean CI/CO eater look fit and active while a non clean CI/CO eater look frumpy and heavier?

I know that every person is different, etc. ( eg, I am lactose intolerant and any dairy would make me appear frumpy!) but generally, are the affects of a cleaner eater obvious externally?

Nope. Though setting a reasonable protein goal and trying to meet that during weight loss will help you retain muscle mass (even better if you lift weights while losing), which can make your body look nicer when you reach your goal weight.

Whether you meet your macros with "clean" or "dirty" foods has no bearing on your end result.

Alyssa_Is_LosingIt

eric_sg61 wrote: »

Clean eating is essential to keep our rainbow sparkled souls free of flame-baiters
-Happy Rainbows and Unicorn Sparkles MFP Welcome Crew

You are my favorite. You get a gold star.

TrailBlazinMN

It all depends on how good you want to feel. I've eaten super clean foods (by my definition) and I feel awesome. Endless energy, no caffeine needed, feeling amazing, etc. People don't realize how good they can feel when they get rid of the foods that affect their body, mind, and attitude.

If you want, just experiment. For dinner, have a few slices of pizza and a big bowl of ice cream for dinner and see how you feel in the morning. Wait a few days and have the same foods you ate during the day when you had pizza and ice cream but instead of pizza and ice cream, eat a massive salad with your choice of protein (lean meat, beans, quinoa, etc) along with some tea and see how you feel the following morning.

Some people can get away with the whole "everything in moderation" when it comes to "junk food". Other people can't. Just like a former alcoholic can't just have a sip or a former cocaine addict can't just have one line.

professionalHobbyist

It isn't a mutually exclusive thing to consider both.

I eat moderate carb higher protein for my nutrient mix. I like fibrous veggies for my carbs instead of pasta or rice.

It is all still subject to eating less than you burn off.

I would read up on what foods you like and what is best for you, then find a good mix you can eat and enjoy!

Some say to eat 500 calories less than you need a day, and burn off 500 calories a day... And there goes about 2 pounds a week that easily.

Good luck!

Alyssa_Is_LosingIt

TrailBlazinMN wrote: »

It all depends on how good you want to feel. I've eaten super clean foods (by my definition) and I feel awesome. Endless energy, no caffeine needed, feeling amazing, etc. People don't realize how good they can feel when they get rid of the foods that affect their body, mind, and attitude.

If you want, just experiment. For dinner, have a few slices of pizza and a big bowl of ice cream for dinner and see how you feel in the morning. Wait a few days and have the same foods you ate during the day when you had pizza and ice cream but instead of pizza and ice cream, eat a massive salad with your choice of protein (lean meat, beans, quinoa, etc) along with some tea and see how you feel the following morning.

Some people can get away with the whole "everything in moderation" when it comes to "junk food". Other people can't. Just like a former alcoholic can't just have a sip or a former cocaine addict can't just have one line.

So if someone eats mostly "clean" foods with some "dirty" treats thrown in here and there, then they will feel worse than someone who never has the treats?

Or are you thinking the ever-popular strawman theory that MFPers who lobby for IIFYM/flexible dieting eat nothing but doughnuts and Pop Tarts all day long with no regards to nutrition?

earlnabby

SherryTeach wrote: »

Calories in/calories out for weight loss. Nutrient dense food for health. Pay attention to both. Ditch the word "clean."

Succinct and true. End of thread.

Alluminati

Welp, glad to see this thread is going the usual route.

Anyone got an extra bingo marker?