Study says restaurant meals are just as unhealthy as fast food
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accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »In other breaking news water is discovered to be wet...
Illogical post is illogical. Restaurants use the same ingredients as people use at home to make meals. Food. How much of that food you choose to eat, and how often you choose to indulge in that type of food, is up to you as the consumer. Blaming being unhealthy on restaurant food is ridiculous.
I never knew that restaurants use the same ingredients that people use at home. That's me set straight then.
It could be of course that restaurants, like most businesses, seek to maximise profits by driving consumption and do so by making food highly palatable and high in portion size which helps exceed maintenance calories...
They may place a large portion in front of you, but you don't have to eat it. Many people choose to order together, and split an entree, or eat half, and get a take home box for the left overs.
choices.
But even a small portion can be loaded with oil and butter. Your point isn't really valid, honestly. Plus I guess I'm a special snowflakes because 90% of the time, if I boxed half of my restaurant meals for later, I'd be hungry 2 hours later, if that...
Heck I've ordered some 'light' options for 550 calories that I could have made at home for 350.
But anyway, it's not really a surprise. Just look at nutrition info online. It's scary. I just don't understand the point of making a study out of it when it's obvious in the first place. Of course it doesn't help that in most places, the 'vegetable' of choice with meals is French fries.
Why is her point invalid? I think what mccindy is saying, and I agree with her, is that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about a restaurant meal, it may or may not be unhealthy for an individual consumer based on how they fit it into their overall lifestyle. If they have hypertension, then yes the sodium could be an issue. If they are regularly exceeding calorie goals, then yes, restaurant meals may make it difficult to stay within a calorie budget. But ultimately it isn't the food itself or the restaurant that should be labeled unhealthy. It is the person who is making those choices to exceed sodium, or calories, or fat, that is making unhealthy choices. That same person could do the same things when cooking at home though.
Ok I get the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' in moderation thing. But I don't feel like arguing semantics. My point is that 99% of restaurant meals will be more than half the calories of what the average 'non overweight' American should eat in a day.
And that's the problem, considering that people typically eat 3 meals a day. I will *never* buy the whole 'it's people's fault' argument. It's not entirely. When 99% of options in restaurants come with 400 calories of French fries or 300 calorie dressings, that's a problem too.
You'll never convince me otherwise, so might as well agree to disagree at this point.
Really? You're not saying that the restaurants are responsible for the food that we, as consumers, choose to eat....are you?
Why would anyone give their power over to a business who sells them meals, meals that you (you used in the general sense) ordered?
Everybody knows that restaurant meals generally contain more sodium and fat than if you made the same thing at home, and their nutrition information is generally around 20% more calories than reported, so why not just adjust and enjoy a meal out?
Eat the whole thing or put some in a takeout box, but either way enjoy the heck out of it.
As sad as it is, this assumption is not correct. Plenty of people have no idea that the portions and nutrient profiles are out of whack.
Happens on prepackaged food at the grocery store, too. Lots of them have serving sizes that are less than the size of the package, even though the package is fairly small. (20 oz. bottle of soda, 2-3 oz bags of chips) But if the consumer takes the time to read the nutrition panel, the information is right there.
That doesn't in any way compare to restaurant portions and content. I can't recall a single instance of being provided nutritional information along with my meal, misleading or otherwise.
Really? I had Jason's Deli on Monday, and they have a nutrition calculator online that allowed me to pick my meal and then sub in or out various side items. La Madeleine has the same options available. Buffalo Wild Wings doesn't have theirs online, but they will email it to you if you request it. Seasons 52 has a PDF of their nutrition information as does PF Changs.
Any other cherries you'd like to pick?0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »In other breaking news water is discovered to be wet...
Illogical post is illogical. Restaurants use the same ingredients as people use at home to make meals. Food. How much of that food you choose to eat, and how often you choose to indulge in that type of food, is up to you as the consumer. Blaming being unhealthy on restaurant food is ridiculous.
I never knew that restaurants use the same ingredients that people use at home. That's me set straight then.
It could be of course that restaurants, like most businesses, seek to maximise profits by driving consumption and do so by making food highly palatable and high in portion size which helps exceed maintenance calories...
They may place a large portion in front of you, but you don't have to eat it. Many people choose to order together, and split an entree, or eat half, and get a take home box for the left overs.
choices.
But even a small portion can be loaded with oil and butter. Your point isn't really valid, honestly. Plus I guess I'm a special snowflakes because 90% of the time, if I boxed half of my restaurant meals for later, I'd be hungry 2 hours later, if that...
Heck I've ordered some 'light' options for 550 calories that I could have made at home for 350.
But anyway, it's not really a surprise. Just look at nutrition info online. It's scary. I just don't understand the point of making a study out of it when it's obvious in the first place. Of course it doesn't help that in most places, the 'vegetable' of choice with meals is French fries.
Why is her point invalid? I think what mccindy is saying, and I agree with her, is that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about a restaurant meal, it may or may not be unhealthy for an individual consumer based on how they fit it into their overall lifestyle. If they have hypertension, then yes the sodium could be an issue. If they are regularly exceeding calorie goals, then yes, restaurant meals may make it difficult to stay within a calorie budget. But ultimately it isn't the food itself or the restaurant that should be labeled unhealthy. It is the person who is making those choices to exceed sodium, or calories, or fat, that is making unhealthy choices. That same person could do the same things when cooking at home though.
Ok I get the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' in moderation thing. But I don't feel like arguing semantics. My point is that 99% of restaurant meals will be more than half the calories of what the average 'non overweight' American should eat in a day.
And that's the problem, considering that people typically eat 3 meals a day. I will *never* buy the whole 'it's people's fault' argument. It's not entirely. When 99% of options in restaurants come with 400 calories of French fries or 300 calorie dressings, that's a problem too.
You'll never convince me otherwise, so might as well agree to disagree at this point.
Really? You're not saying that the restaurants are responsible for the food that we, as consumers, choose to eat....are you?
Why would anyone give their power over to a business who sells them meals, meals that you (you used in the general sense) ordered?
Everybody knows that restaurant meals generally contain more sodium and fat than if you made the same thing at home, and their nutrition information is generally around 20% more calories than reported, so why not just adjust and enjoy a meal out?
Eat the whole thing or put some in a takeout box, but either way enjoy the heck out of it.
As sad as it is, this assumption is not correct. Plenty of people have no idea that the portions and nutrient profiles are out of whack.
Happens on prepackaged food at the grocery store, too. Lots of them have serving sizes that are less than the size of the package, even though the package is fairly small. (20 oz. bottle of soda, 2-3 oz bags of chips) But if the consumer takes the time to read the nutrition panel, the information is right there.
That doesn't in any way compare to restaurant portions and content. I can't recall a single instance of being provided nutritional information along with my meal, misleading or otherwise.
Really? I had Jason's Deli on Monday, and they have a nutrition calculator online that allowed me to pick my meal and then sub in or out various side items. La Madeleine has the same options available. Buffalo Wild Wings doesn't have theirs online, but they will email it to you if you request it. Seasons 52 has a PDF of their nutrition information as does PF Changs.
Any other cherries you'd like to pick?
So, you couldn't recall 'a single instance' and this poster gives you five, and that's cherry picking? you've been called out, methinks.0 -
The minutiae that gets argued here is really ridiculous. I'm not in any way arguing that restaurants are responsible for people overeating or not caring about the content.
However, it is not nearly as easy as it should be to track down basic nutritional info for most restaurants, and it's ignorant to say that everybody knows or is interested in the details. Facts.0 -
Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm only there once a year or so - but isn't IL trying to make it law that restaurants have to provide nutrition information on their menus?
I went to a BBQ place in IL that did it and it was awesome. I sat there and planned out a meal that was almost 1/2 what I was expecting to eat before I got there.
Also, Waffle Houses in MO are starting to add calorie counts to their menus.
Perhaps this will set a good presidence. And hey, even if they're not 100% accurate, this at least gives me a ballpark figure to work with, which is so much better than trying to guess.0 -
ManiacalLaugh wrote: »Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm only there once a year or so - but isn't IL trying to make it law that restaurants have to provide nutrition information on their menus?
I went to a BBQ place in IL that did it and it was awesome. I sat there and planned out a meal that was almost 1/2 what I was expecting to eat before I got there.
Also, Waffle Houses in MO are starting to add calorie counts to their menus.
Perhaps this will set a good presidence. And hey, even if they're not 100% accurate, this at least gives me a ballpark figure to work with, which is so much better than trying to guess.
There is a federal law for restaurants with 20 or more locations (so, large chains), and they must start complying by December 2016. I believe there are some states making it more strict for some smaller chains as well.
http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/LabelingNutrition/ucm248732.htm
ETA: I'm super excited about the requirement being extended to movie theater popcorn...0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »In other breaking news water is discovered to be wet...
Illogical post is illogical. Restaurants use the same ingredients as people use at home to make meals. Food. How much of that food you choose to eat, and how often you choose to indulge in that type of food, is up to you as the consumer. Blaming being unhealthy on restaurant food is ridiculous.
I never knew that restaurants use the same ingredients that people use at home. That's me set straight then.
It could be of course that restaurants, like most businesses, seek to maximise profits by driving consumption and do so by making food highly palatable and high in portion size which helps exceed maintenance calories...
They may place a large portion in front of you, but you don't have to eat it. Many people choose to order together, and split an entree, or eat half, and get a take home box for the left overs.
choices.
But even a small portion can be loaded with oil and butter. Your point isn't really valid, honestly. Plus I guess I'm a special snowflakes because 90% of the time, if I boxed half of my restaurant meals for later, I'd be hungry 2 hours later, if that...
Heck I've ordered some 'light' options for 550 calories that I could have made at home for 350.
But anyway, it's not really a surprise. Just look at nutrition info online. It's scary. I just don't understand the point of making a study out of it when it's obvious in the first place. Of course it doesn't help that in most places, the 'vegetable' of choice with meals is French fries.
Why is her point invalid? I think what mccindy is saying, and I agree with her, is that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about a restaurant meal, it may or may not be unhealthy for an individual consumer based on how they fit it into their overall lifestyle. If they have hypertension, then yes the sodium could be an issue. If they are regularly exceeding calorie goals, then yes, restaurant meals may make it difficult to stay within a calorie budget. But ultimately it isn't the food itself or the restaurant that should be labeled unhealthy. It is the person who is making those choices to exceed sodium, or calories, or fat, that is making unhealthy choices. That same person could do the same things when cooking at home though.
Ok I get the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' in moderation thing. But I don't feel like arguing semantics. My point is that 99% of restaurant meals will be more than half the calories of what the average 'non overweight' American should eat in a day.
And that's the problem, considering that people typically eat 3 meals a day. I will *never* buy the whole 'it's people's fault' argument. It's not entirely. When 99% of options in restaurants come with 400 calories of French fries or 300 calorie dressings, that's a problem too.
You'll never convince me otherwise, so might as well agree to disagree at this point.
Really? You're not saying that the restaurants are responsible for the food that we, as consumers, choose to eat....are you?
Why would anyone give their power over to a business who sells them meals, meals that you (you used in the general sense) ordered?
Everybody knows that restaurant meals generally contain more sodium and fat than if you made the same thing at home, and their nutrition information is generally around 20% more calories than reported, so why not just adjust and enjoy a meal out?
Eat the whole thing or put some in a takeout box, but either way enjoy the heck out of it.
As sad as it is, this assumption is not correct. Plenty of people have no idea that the portions and nutrient profiles are out of whack.
Happens on prepackaged food at the grocery store, too. Lots of them have serving sizes that are less than the size of the package, even though the package is fairly small. (20 oz. bottle of soda, 2-3 oz bags of chips) But if the consumer takes the time to read the nutrition panel, the information is right there.
That doesn't in any way compare to restaurant portions and content. I can't recall a single instance of being provided nutritional information along with my meal, misleading or otherwise.
Really? I had Jason's Deli on Monday, and they have a nutrition calculator online that allowed me to pick my meal and then sub in or out various side items. La Madeleine has the same options available. Buffalo Wild Wings doesn't have theirs online, but they will email it to you if you request it. Seasons 52 has a PDF of their nutrition information as does PF Changs.
Any other cherries you'd like to pick?
So, you couldn't recall 'a single instance' and this poster gives you five, and that's cherry picking? you've been called out, methinks.
None of those are instances of walking into a casual dining restaurant, which is the main focus of this entire conversation, and being offered the nutritional information about the meal you ordered.
I also never said that the information isn't available online or elsewhere for SOME restaurants. However, the vast majority of restaurants still don't have the information readily available, and that still doesn't take into account that you have to be specifically motivated to get that information.
The statement made that I am arguing against is that EVERYONE knows the nutritional content and portion appropriateness. That is patently false, and somewhat insulting to large portions of the population who were never taught to view food critically.0 -
Why aren't guesses and comparable dishes sufficient to put the restaurant-goer of average intelligence on notice as to potential issues? Does such a person really need a gram-by-gram breakdown of every dish for such an "obvious" concern?accidentalpancake wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
However, the information is almost always available for people who care to learn it. Yes?accidentalpancake wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »In other breaking news water is discovered to be wet...
Illogical post is illogical. Restaurants use the same ingredients as people use at home to make meals. Food. How much of that food you choose to eat, and how often you choose to indulge in that type of food, is up to you as the consumer. Blaming being unhealthy on restaurant food is ridiculous.
I never knew that restaurants use the same ingredients that people use at home. That's me set straight then.
It could be of course that restaurants, like most businesses, seek to maximise profits by driving consumption and do so by making food highly palatable and high in portion size which helps exceed maintenance calories...
They may place a large portion in front of you, but you don't have to eat it. Many people choose to order together, and split an entree, or eat half, and get a take home box for the left overs.
choices.
But even a small portion can be loaded with oil and butter. Your point isn't really valid, honestly. Plus I guess I'm a special snowflakes because 90% of the time, if I boxed half of my restaurant meals for later, I'd be hungry 2 hours later, if that...
Heck I've ordered some 'light' options for 550 calories that I could have made at home for 350.
But anyway, it's not really a surprise. Just look at nutrition info online. It's scary. I just don't understand the point of making a study out of it when it's obvious in the first place. Of course it doesn't help that in most places, the 'vegetable' of choice with meals is French fries.
Why is her point invalid? I think what mccindy is saying, and I agree with her, is that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about a restaurant meal, it may or may not be unhealthy for an individual consumer based on how they fit it into their overall lifestyle. If they have hypertension, then yes the sodium could be an issue. If they are regularly exceeding calorie goals, then yes, restaurant meals may make it difficult to stay within a calorie budget. But ultimately it isn't the food itself or the restaurant that should be labeled unhealthy. It is the person who is making those choices to exceed sodium, or calories, or fat, that is making unhealthy choices. That same person could do the same things when cooking at home though.
Ok I get the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' in moderation thing. But I don't feel like arguing semantics. My point is that 99% of restaurant meals will be more than half the calories of what the average 'non overweight' American should eat in a day.
And that's the problem, considering that people typically eat 3 meals a day. I will *never* buy the whole 'it's people's fault' argument. It's not entirely. When 99% of options in restaurants come with 400 calories of French fries or 300 calorie dressings, that's a problem too.
You'll never convince me otherwise, so might as well agree to disagree at this point.
Really? You're not saying that the restaurants are responsible for the food that we, as consumers, choose to eat....are you?
Why would anyone give their power over to a business who sells them meals, meals that you (you used in the general sense) ordered?
Everybody knows that restaurant meals generally contain more sodium and fat than if you made the same thing at home, and their nutrition information is generally around 20% more calories than reported, so why not just adjust and enjoy a meal out?
Eat the whole thing or put some in a takeout box, but either way enjoy the heck out of it.
As sad as it is, this assumption is not correct. Plenty of people have no idea that the portions and nutrient profiles are out of whack.
I'd argue no. It is frequently difficult to find nutritional information regarding restaurant dishes. Guesses, maybe, and some official numbers on the establishment website, but it's far from universal.
How much do you think steak or shrimp or Ranch dressing or whatever varies from restaurant to restaurant that even a guess can't be used to realize that the 15-layer lasagna is carb and calorie packed?
0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »In other breaking news water is discovered to be wet...
Illogical post is illogical. Restaurants use the same ingredients as people use at home to make meals. Food. How much of that food you choose to eat, and how often you choose to indulge in that type of food, is up to you as the consumer. Blaming being unhealthy on restaurant food is ridiculous.
I never knew that restaurants use the same ingredients that people use at home. That's me set straight then.
It could be of course that restaurants, like most businesses, seek to maximise profits by driving consumption and do so by making food highly palatable and high in portion size which helps exceed maintenance calories...
They may place a large portion in front of you, but you don't have to eat it. Many people choose to order together, and split an entree, or eat half, and get a take home box for the left overs.
choices.
But even a small portion can be loaded with oil and butter. Your point isn't really valid, honestly. Plus I guess I'm a special snowflakes because 90% of the time, if I boxed half of my restaurant meals for later, I'd be hungry 2 hours later, if that...
Heck I've ordered some 'light' options for 550 calories that I could have made at home for 350.
But anyway, it's not really a surprise. Just look at nutrition info online. It's scary. I just don't understand the point of making a study out of it when it's obvious in the first place. Of course it doesn't help that in most places, the 'vegetable' of choice with meals is French fries.
Why is her point invalid? I think what mccindy is saying, and I agree with her, is that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about a restaurant meal, it may or may not be unhealthy for an individual consumer based on how they fit it into their overall lifestyle. If they have hypertension, then yes the sodium could be an issue. If they are regularly exceeding calorie goals, then yes, restaurant meals may make it difficult to stay within a calorie budget. But ultimately it isn't the food itself or the restaurant that should be labeled unhealthy. It is the person who is making those choices to exceed sodium, or calories, or fat, that is making unhealthy choices. That same person could do the same things when cooking at home though.
Ok I get the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' in moderation thing. But I don't feel like arguing semantics. My point is that 99% of restaurant meals will be more than half the calories of what the average 'non overweight' American should eat in a day.
And that's the problem, considering that people typically eat 3 meals a day. I will *never* buy the whole 'it's people's fault' argument. It's not entirely. When 99% of options in restaurants come with 400 calories of French fries or 300 calorie dressings, that's a problem too.
You'll never convince me otherwise, so might as well agree to disagree at this point.
Really? You're not saying that the restaurants are responsible for the food that we, as consumers, choose to eat....are you?
Why would anyone give their power over to a business who sells them meals, meals that you (you used in the general sense) ordered?
Everybody knows that restaurant meals generally contain more sodium and fat than if you made the same thing at home, and their nutrition information is generally around 20% more calories than reported, so why not just adjust and enjoy a meal out?
Eat the whole thing or put some in a takeout box, but either way enjoy the heck out of it.
As sad as it is, this assumption is not correct. Plenty of people have no idea that the portions and nutrient profiles are out of whack.
Happens on prepackaged food at the grocery store, too. Lots of them have serving sizes that are less than the size of the package, even though the package is fairly small. (20 oz. bottle of soda, 2-3 oz bags of chips) But if the consumer takes the time to read the nutrition panel, the information is right there.
That doesn't in any way compare to restaurant portions and content. I can't recall a single instance of being provided nutritional information along with my meal, misleading or otherwise.
Really? I had Jason's Deli on Monday, and they have a nutrition calculator online that allowed me to pick my meal and then sub in or out various side items. La Madeleine has the same options available. Buffalo Wild Wings doesn't have theirs online, but they will email it to you if you request it. Seasons 52 has a PDF of their nutrition information as does PF Changs.
Any other cherries you'd like to pick?
So, you couldn't recall 'a single instance' and this poster gives you five, and that's cherry picking? you've been called out, methinks.
None of those are instances of walking into a casual dining restaurant, which is the main focus of this entire conversation, and being offered the nutritional information about the meal you ordered.
I also never said that the information isn't available online or elsewhere for SOME restaurants. However, the vast majority of restaurants still don't have the information readily available, and that still doesn't take into account that you have to be specifically motivated to get that information.
The statement made that I am arguing against is that EVERYONE knows the nutritional content and portion appropriateness. That is patently false, and somewhat insulting to large portions of the population who were never taught to view food critically.
Au Bon Pain has it on their menu (and the signs for the bakery items have calorie counts) as does La Madeleine. It's definitely not common, but many places are starting to get signage to comply with the above referenced law. Many places haven't started yet because they still have over a year to get into compliance, but it's about to become very commonplace.0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »In other breaking news water is discovered to be wet...
Illogical post is illogical. Restaurants use the same ingredients as people use at home to make meals. Food. How much of that food you choose to eat, and how often you choose to indulge in that type of food, is up to you as the consumer. Blaming being unhealthy on restaurant food is ridiculous.
I never knew that restaurants use the same ingredients that people use at home. That's me set straight then.
It could be of course that restaurants, like most businesses, seek to maximise profits by driving consumption and do so by making food highly palatable and high in portion size which helps exceed maintenance calories...
They may place a large portion in front of you, but you don't have to eat it. Many people choose to order together, and split an entree, or eat half, and get a take home box for the left overs.
choices.
But even a small portion can be loaded with oil and butter. Your point isn't really valid, honestly. Plus I guess I'm a special snowflakes because 90% of the time, if I boxed half of my restaurant meals for later, I'd be hungry 2 hours later, if that...
Heck I've ordered some 'light' options for 550 calories that I could have made at home for 350.
But anyway, it's not really a surprise. Just look at nutrition info online. It's scary. I just don't understand the point of making a study out of it when it's obvious in the first place. Of course it doesn't help that in most places, the 'vegetable' of choice with meals is French fries.
Why is her point invalid? I think what mccindy is saying, and I agree with her, is that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about a restaurant meal, it may or may not be unhealthy for an individual consumer based on how they fit it into their overall lifestyle. If they have hypertension, then yes the sodium could be an issue. If they are regularly exceeding calorie goals, then yes, restaurant meals may make it difficult to stay within a calorie budget. But ultimately it isn't the food itself or the restaurant that should be labeled unhealthy. It is the person who is making those choices to exceed sodium, or calories, or fat, that is making unhealthy choices. That same person could do the same things when cooking at home though.
Ok I get the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' in moderation thing. But I don't feel like arguing semantics. My point is that 99% of restaurant meals will be more than half the calories of what the average 'non overweight' American should eat in a day.
And that's the problem, considering that people typically eat 3 meals a day. I will *never* buy the whole 'it's people's fault' argument. It's not entirely. When 99% of options in restaurants come with 400 calories of French fries or 300 calorie dressings, that's a problem too.
You'll never convince me otherwise, so might as well agree to disagree at this point.
Really? You're not saying that the restaurants are responsible for the food that we, as consumers, choose to eat....are you?
Why would anyone give their power over to a business who sells them meals, meals that you (you used in the general sense) ordered?
Everybody knows that restaurant meals generally contain more sodium and fat than if you made the same thing at home, and their nutrition information is generally around 20% more calories than reported, so why not just adjust and enjoy a meal out?
Eat the whole thing or put some in a takeout box, but either way enjoy the heck out of it.
As sad as it is, this assumption is not correct. Plenty of people have no idea that the portions and nutrient profiles are out of whack.
Happens on prepackaged food at the grocery store, too. Lots of them have serving sizes that are less than the size of the package, even though the package is fairly small. (20 oz. bottle of soda, 2-3 oz bags of chips) But if the consumer takes the time to read the nutrition panel, the information is right there.
That doesn't in any way compare to restaurant portions and content. I can't recall a single instance of being provided nutritional information along with my meal, misleading or otherwise.
Really? I had Jason's Deli on Monday, and they have a nutrition calculator online that allowed me to pick my meal and then sub in or out various side items. La Madeleine has the same options available. Buffalo Wild Wings doesn't have theirs online, but they will email it to you if you request it. Seasons 52 has a PDF of their nutrition information as does PF Changs.
Any other cherries you'd like to pick?
So, you couldn't recall 'a single instance' and this poster gives you five, and that's cherry picking? you've been called out, methinks.
None of those are instances of walking into a casual dining restaurant, which is the main focus of this entire conversation, and being offered the nutritional information about the meal you ordered.
I also never said that the information isn't available online or elsewhere for SOME restaurants. However, the vast majority of restaurants still don't have the information readily available, and that still doesn't take into account that you have to be specifically motivated to get that information.
The statement made that I am arguing against is that EVERYONE knows the nutritional content and portion appropriateness. That is patently false, and somewhat insulting to large portions of the population who were never taught to view food critically.
Au Bon Pain has it on their menu (and the signs for the bakery items have calorie counts) as does La Madeleine. It's definitely not common, but many places are starting to get signage to comply with the above referenced law. Many places haven't started yet because they still have over a year to get into compliance, but it's about to become very commonplace.
And once it becomes more universal, this issue with change completely. The current reality isn't so transparent.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Why aren't guesses and comparable dishes sufficient to put the restaurant-goer of average intelligence on notice as to potential issues? Does such a person really need a gram-by-gram breakdown of every dish for such an "obvious" concern?accidentalpancake wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
However, the information is almost always available for people who care to learn it. Yes?accidentalpancake wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »In other breaking news water is discovered to be wet...
Illogical post is illogical. Restaurants use the same ingredients as people use at home to make meals. Food. How much of that food you choose to eat, and how often you choose to indulge in that type of food, is up to you as the consumer. Blaming being unhealthy on restaurant food is ridiculous.
I never knew that restaurants use the same ingredients that people use at home. That's me set straight then.
It could be of course that restaurants, like most businesses, seek to maximise profits by driving consumption and do so by making food highly palatable and high in portion size which helps exceed maintenance calories...
They may place a large portion in front of you, but you don't have to eat it. Many people choose to order together, and split an entree, or eat half, and get a take home box for the left overs.
choices.
But even a small portion can be loaded with oil and butter. Your point isn't really valid, honestly. Plus I guess I'm a special snowflakes because 90% of the time, if I boxed half of my restaurant meals for later, I'd be hungry 2 hours later, if that...
Heck I've ordered some 'light' options for 550 calories that I could have made at home for 350.
But anyway, it's not really a surprise. Just look at nutrition info online. It's scary. I just don't understand the point of making a study out of it when it's obvious in the first place. Of course it doesn't help that in most places, the 'vegetable' of choice with meals is French fries.
Why is her point invalid? I think what mccindy is saying, and I agree with her, is that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about a restaurant meal, it may or may not be unhealthy for an individual consumer based on how they fit it into their overall lifestyle. If they have hypertension, then yes the sodium could be an issue. If they are regularly exceeding calorie goals, then yes, restaurant meals may make it difficult to stay within a calorie budget. But ultimately it isn't the food itself or the restaurant that should be labeled unhealthy. It is the person who is making those choices to exceed sodium, or calories, or fat, that is making unhealthy choices. That same person could do the same things when cooking at home though.
Ok I get the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' in moderation thing. But I don't feel like arguing semantics. My point is that 99% of restaurant meals will be more than half the calories of what the average 'non overweight' American should eat in a day.
And that's the problem, considering that people typically eat 3 meals a day. I will *never* buy the whole 'it's people's fault' argument. It's not entirely. When 99% of options in restaurants come with 400 calories of French fries or 300 calorie dressings, that's a problem too.
You'll never convince me otherwise, so might as well agree to disagree at this point.
Really? You're not saying that the restaurants are responsible for the food that we, as consumers, choose to eat....are you?
Why would anyone give their power over to a business who sells them meals, meals that you (you used in the general sense) ordered?
Everybody knows that restaurant meals generally contain more sodium and fat than if you made the same thing at home, and their nutrition information is generally around 20% more calories than reported, so why not just adjust and enjoy a meal out?
Eat the whole thing or put some in a takeout box, but either way enjoy the heck out of it.
As sad as it is, this assumption is not correct. Plenty of people have no idea that the portions and nutrient profiles are out of whack.
I'd argue no. It is frequently difficult to find nutritional information regarding restaurant dishes. Guesses, maybe, and some official numbers on the establishment website, but it's far from universal.
How much do you think steak or shrimp or Ranch dressing or whatever varies from restaurant to restaurant that even a guess can't be used to realize that the 15-layer lasagna is carb and calorie packed?
Ask random people what they think the caloric content (don't confuse them with macros) of various restaurant dishes are. The vast majority will greatly underestimate.
Those who care to find comparable dishes to track their intake aren't the issue. It's the larger majority who are completely blind to the issue altogether. If the information were more readily available, it's likely that more people would care and pay attention.0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Why aren't guesses and comparable dishes sufficient to put the restaurant-goer of average intelligence on notice as to potential issues? Does such a person really need a gram-by-gram breakdown of every dish for such an "obvious" concern?accidentalpancake wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
However, the information is almost always available for people who care to learn it. Yes?accidentalpancake wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »In other breaking news water is discovered to be wet...
Illogical post is illogical. Restaurants use the same ingredients as people use at home to make meals. Food. How much of that food you choose to eat, and how often you choose to indulge in that type of food, is up to you as the consumer. Blaming being unhealthy on restaurant food is ridiculous.
I never knew that restaurants use the same ingredients that people use at home. That's me set straight then.
It could be of course that restaurants, like most businesses, seek to maximise profits by driving consumption and do so by making food highly palatable and high in portion size which helps exceed maintenance calories...
They may place a large portion in front of you, but you don't have to eat it. Many people choose to order together, and split an entree, or eat half, and get a take home box for the left overs.
choices.
But even a small portion can be loaded with oil and butter. Your point isn't really valid, honestly. Plus I guess I'm a special snowflakes because 90% of the time, if I boxed half of my restaurant meals for later, I'd be hungry 2 hours later, if that...
Heck I've ordered some 'light' options for 550 calories that I could have made at home for 350.
But anyway, it's not really a surprise. Just look at nutrition info online. It's scary. I just don't understand the point of making a study out of it when it's obvious in the first place. Of course it doesn't help that in most places, the 'vegetable' of choice with meals is French fries.
Why is her point invalid? I think what mccindy is saying, and I agree with her, is that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about a restaurant meal, it may or may not be unhealthy for an individual consumer based on how they fit it into their overall lifestyle. If they have hypertension, then yes the sodium could be an issue. If they are regularly exceeding calorie goals, then yes, restaurant meals may make it difficult to stay within a calorie budget. But ultimately it isn't the food itself or the restaurant that should be labeled unhealthy. It is the person who is making those choices to exceed sodium, or calories, or fat, that is making unhealthy choices. That same person could do the same things when cooking at home though.
Ok I get the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' in moderation thing. But I don't feel like arguing semantics. My point is that 99% of restaurant meals will be more than half the calories of what the average 'non overweight' American should eat in a day.
And that's the problem, considering that people typically eat 3 meals a day. I will *never* buy the whole 'it's people's fault' argument. It's not entirely. When 99% of options in restaurants come with 400 calories of French fries or 300 calorie dressings, that's a problem too.
You'll never convince me otherwise, so might as well agree to disagree at this point.
Really? You're not saying that the restaurants are responsible for the food that we, as consumers, choose to eat....are you?
Why would anyone give their power over to a business who sells them meals, meals that you (you used in the general sense) ordered?
Everybody knows that restaurant meals generally contain more sodium and fat than if you made the same thing at home, and their nutrition information is generally around 20% more calories than reported, so why not just adjust and enjoy a meal out?
Eat the whole thing or put some in a takeout box, but either way enjoy the heck out of it.
As sad as it is, this assumption is not correct. Plenty of people have no idea that the portions and nutrient profiles are out of whack.
I'd argue no. It is frequently difficult to find nutritional information regarding restaurant dishes. Guesses, maybe, and some official numbers on the establishment website, but it's far from universal.
How much do you think steak or shrimp or Ranch dressing or whatever varies from restaurant to restaurant that even a guess can't be used to realize that the 15-layer lasagna is carb and calorie packed?
Ask random people what they think the caloric content (don't confuse them with macros) of various restaurant dishes are. The vast majority will greatly underestimate.
Those who care to find comparable dishes to track their intake aren't the issue. It's the larger majority who are completely blind to the issue altogether. If the information were more readily available, it's likely that more people would care and pay attention.
So let's just pat everyone on the hand and tell them it's not their fault they're ignorant. It's the restaurants' fault. There, there, there.......0 -
accidentalpancake wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Why aren't guesses and comparable dishes sufficient to put the restaurant-goer of average intelligence on notice as to potential issues? Does such a person really need a gram-by-gram breakdown of every dish for such an "obvious" concern?accidentalpancake wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
However, the information is almost always available for people who care to learn it. Yes?accidentalpancake wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »In other breaking news water is discovered to be wet...
Illogical post is illogical. Restaurants use the same ingredients as people use at home to make meals. Food. How much of that food you choose to eat, and how often you choose to indulge in that type of food, is up to you as the consumer. Blaming being unhealthy on restaurant food is ridiculous.
I never knew that restaurants use the same ingredients that people use at home. That's me set straight then.
It could be of course that restaurants, like most businesses, seek to maximise profits by driving consumption and do so by making food highly palatable and high in portion size which helps exceed maintenance calories...
They may place a large portion in front of you, but you don't have to eat it. Many people choose to order together, and split an entree, or eat half, and get a take home box for the left overs.
choices.
But even a small portion can be loaded with oil and butter. Your point isn't really valid, honestly. Plus I guess I'm a special snowflakes because 90% of the time, if I boxed half of my restaurant meals for later, I'd be hungry 2 hours later, if that...
Heck I've ordered some 'light' options for 550 calories that I could have made at home for 350.
But anyway, it's not really a surprise. Just look at nutrition info online. It's scary. I just don't understand the point of making a study out of it when it's obvious in the first place. Of course it doesn't help that in most places, the 'vegetable' of choice with meals is French fries.
Why is her point invalid? I think what mccindy is saying, and I agree with her, is that there is nothing inherently unhealthy about a restaurant meal, it may or may not be unhealthy for an individual consumer based on how they fit it into their overall lifestyle. If they have hypertension, then yes the sodium could be an issue. If they are regularly exceeding calorie goals, then yes, restaurant meals may make it difficult to stay within a calorie budget. But ultimately it isn't the food itself or the restaurant that should be labeled unhealthy. It is the person who is making those choices to exceed sodium, or calories, or fat, that is making unhealthy choices. That same person could do the same things when cooking at home though.
Ok I get the whole 'nothing is unhealthy' in moderation thing. But I don't feel like arguing semantics. My point is that 99% of restaurant meals will be more than half the calories of what the average 'non overweight' American should eat in a day.
And that's the problem, considering that people typically eat 3 meals a day. I will *never* buy the whole 'it's people's fault' argument. It's not entirely. When 99% of options in restaurants come with 400 calories of French fries or 300 calorie dressings, that's a problem too.
You'll never convince me otherwise, so might as well agree to disagree at this point.
Really? You're not saying that the restaurants are responsible for the food that we, as consumers, choose to eat....are you?
Why would anyone give their power over to a business who sells them meals, meals that you (you used in the general sense) ordered?
Everybody knows that restaurant meals generally contain more sodium and fat than if you made the same thing at home, and their nutrition information is generally around 20% more calories than reported, so why not just adjust and enjoy a meal out?
Eat the whole thing or put some in a takeout box, but either way enjoy the heck out of it.
As sad as it is, this assumption is not correct. Plenty of people have no idea that the portions and nutrient profiles are out of whack.
I'd argue no. It is frequently difficult to find nutritional information regarding restaurant dishes. Guesses, maybe, and some official numbers on the establishment website, but it's far from universal.
How much do you think steak or shrimp or Ranch dressing or whatever varies from restaurant to restaurant that even a guess can't be used to realize that the 15-layer lasagna is carb and calorie packed?
Ask random people what they think the caloric content (don't confuse them with macros) of various restaurant dishes are. The vast majority will greatly underestimate.
Those who care to find comparable dishes to track their intake aren't the issue. It's the larger majority who are completely blind to the issue altogether. If the information were more readily available, it's likely that more people would care and pay attention.
So let's just pat everyone on the hand and tell them it's not their fault they're ignorant. It's the restaurants' fault. There, there, there.......
Way to miss the point. In no way does what I wrote directly say or even vaguely imply that.0 -
ManiacalLaugh wrote: »Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm only there once a year or so - but isn't IL trying to make it law that restaurants have to provide nutrition information on their menus?
For chains--I think it's basically mooted by the federal regs.
And here in Chicago, at least, like I said, almost all chains have it anyway, likely due to consumer demand. It's nice, but I don't think it's realistic or necessary or desirable to try to impose that on small local places or high end restaurants (where the customers have a lot of power to demand it if they care anyway).0 -
And then of course, there's this: Calorie Postings Don’t Change Habits, Study Finds0
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I watch enough cooking shows to be completely unsurprised by this. Have you seen how much salt and fat is used--and if candidates dont, they tend to get chewed out for the food being 'bland'? Messed up taste buds. i've never enjoyed the taste of food more than when I stopped adding salt to everything.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »ManiacalLaugh wrote: »Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm only there once a year or so - but isn't IL trying to make it law that restaurants have to provide nutrition information on their menus?
For chains--I think it's basically mooted by the federal regs.
And here in Chicago, at least, like I said, almost all chains have it anyway, likely due to consumer demand. It's nice, but I don't think it's realistic or necessary or desirable to try to impose that on small local places or high end restaurants (where the customers have a lot of power to demand it if they care anyway).
Why is it not realistic? This is the information age and it's no longer all that difficult to find out nutritional contents of ingredients. We already have this information on pretty much everything at the grocery store (fruits and vegetables being the notable exception), even for food coming from small local bakeries. So far, this hasn't brought the food industry to its knees.
As to it being necessary: You don't think it's necessary for people to know what they're eating? A lot of people who travel for work end up eating out as part of their job. How could they reasonably track their food unless they stick to bigger chains? And as someone upthread noted, most people already way underestimate their calorie intakes when left to guess. Combine that with restaurants doubling down on calorie dense ingredients and it's no wonder we have an obesity epidemic. And no, I'm not saying this is the only cause but it certainly is a contributing factor.0 -
Here's the thing with regards to mandating restaurants provide calorie counts and other nutritional information. That's great, for people who are tracking their calories, people like MFP users, and others who have a basic understanding of their maintenance calorie level and the concepts of CICO. But if the average person doesn't know that their TDEE is 2200 for example, then providing them calorie counts of individual food items doesn't necessarily help them make informed decisions.
For my entire adult life, I understood the basic principles that started this debate, that restaurant meals would likely be higher in sodium, fat, and calorie content than what a home cooked meal would provide. It wasn't until I became overweight, found MFP, and figured out my TDEE and an appropriate calorie deficit for losing weight, that the publicly available nutritional info for a restaurant became actually helpful for me.
So really, if we are going to mandate that restaurants publish nutritional info to help people be healthy, maybe we should mandate that all humans figure out their BMR and TDEE because otherwise they've only got part of the equation....0 -
peter56765 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »And here in Chicago, at least, like I said, almost all chains have it anyway, likely due to consumer demand. It's nice, but I don't think it's realistic or necessary or desirable to try to impose that on small local places or high end restaurants (where the customers have a lot of power to demand it if they care anyway).
Why is it not realistic? This is the information age and it's no longer all that difficult to find out nutritional contents of ingredients.
It's burdensome in an already tough market, especially for restaurants that change their menus a lot and focus on the best ingredients available. It also adds a cost to have it checked and all that, which is why the regs have focused on chains where the burden is less overall.We already have this information on pretty much everything at the grocery store (fruits and vegetables being the notable exception), even for food coming from small local bakeries. So far, this hasn't brought the food industry to its knees.
Not analogous.As to it being necessary: You don't think it's necessary for people to know what they're eating?
I don't think it's necessary for every restaurant to provide this information, no. I think restaurants need to answer customer questions about ingredients when asked. Beyond that, I think customers can decide how much they care by where they choose to go.
Personally, even while using MFP and actively losing (I'm mostly in maintenance now), I would have always chosen as a dinner option an interesting local place with creative cooking or foods that I couldn't recreate at home over some chain with nutrition information, AND I think a lot of the places I chose were probably overall healthier (at least in how easy they were to fit in my day) than your average chain.
On the other hand, when I do lunch I choose a place with calorie information almost always, because there I'm in the mood for convenience, not an exciting restaurant experience.A lot of people who travel for work end up eating out as part of their job. How could they reasonably track their food unless they stick to bigger chains?
Stick to chains or places that have nutrition information on-line--the chains that have that information here aren't necessarily big and are some of the better lunch options. I suspect you could encompass hotel restaurants in this too, if there was some demand to do so, although there doesn't seem to be.I'm not saying this is the only cause but it certainly is a contributing factor.
Seems highly unlikely as most Americans tend to go to chain restaurants, and I doubt those who go to the higher end places or the creative local places or ethnic places are particularly more likely to be overweight. Also, at least with the higher end places, as I said above, the customers have a great deal of power to demand that the restaurant provide that information if they wanted it--they don't, as it would probably interfere with the experience for many. And no one has to go to a restaurant like that anyway.0 -
Every restaurant everywhere should tell us exactly what is in the food, and what the nutrition information is. Every American should have to use a tracker app like MFP to count calories and fitness activity. Oh, and should be required to exercise a set amount every day (I'm sure the disabled will be granted an exclusion). Everyone will have a set amount of calories, individually, for them, to take in, each day. Maybe an implanted microchip to send feedback to the government so it knows everyone is following?
Imagine the healthcare savings in the long run when everyone is all ideal weight and stuff.
but what would the penalty for failure be? Hmmmm..... Big Brother is watching you.0 -
Every restaurant everywhere should tell us exactly what is in the food, and what the nutrition information is. Every American should have to use a tracker app like MFP to count calories and fitness activity. Oh, and should be required to exercise a set amount every day (I'm sure the disabled will be granted an exclusion). Everyone will have a set amount of calories, individually, for them, to take in, each day. Maybe an implanted microchip to send feedback to the government so it knows everyone is following?
Imagine the healthcare savings in the long run when everyone is all ideal weight and stuff.
but what would the penalty for failure be? Hmmmm..... Big Brother is watching you.
Exactly. People have to be accountable for themselves. Mandating that restaurants provide nutritional info, or worse, that restaurants change the food they serve to be "healthier" based on some arbitrary definition or FoodBabe type fearmongering is still not going to solve the obesity epidemic. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that people have to take responsibility for their obesity and be willing to do something about it.
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