Carbohydrate Addiction
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nvsmomketo wrote: »Medically speaking, no. Carb addiction has not be verified as real.
That being said, carbs affect people in ways that fats and proteins don't, and can be linked to cravings and over eating in some people. No kid ever cries for another steak or an extra pat of butter on their veggies. They do cry over lollipops and pop. Carbs, high sugar carbs especially, are different.
Carbs DO do something to some people. Those with insulin resitsance (T2 diabetes) may well feel greater hunger due to their different hormone levels. I think they may be affected the most by carbs.
IMO, carbs are not technically an addiction (for some people) but it appears to not be benign for everyone either.
I have a difficult time moderating carbs. I am also prediabetic and have other health issues, so I chose to go very low carb. For me there was a period of around 10 days or so of adjustment (keto flu as lemurcat said). Once I got through that my distracting carb cravings were virtually gone, and I know I didn't just break a habit as it takes longer for that.
Talking about carbs as an addiction is stirring the hornets' nest around here... Good luck.
Clearly, you've never met my kid. She would, and has cried over not getting enough butter! Give her a choice between a good steak and a lollipop, steak will win every time.
This was me as a kid (okay, not the crying bit). But when I was maybe 10 I recall going to a steak place and getting a steak from the regular menu and my dad saying don't worry, she'll eat it, when the waitress tried to steer me to something else.
I liked the potato and the mushrooms too, but the steak was the thing for me, always. I also ADORED salmon.
It's a wonder I wasn't fat until much later given how much steak I could put down.0 -
Adult Mixed grill at the Turkish restaurant for my boy since he was 8
She likes dairy
Both choose rice over fries0 -
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I thought there was a fiber, question there. I'm sorry. I never would've brought it up if I hadn't thought that.lemurcat12 wrote: »
Did you edit the fiber question out or did I misread? Was there a question about fiber?lemurcat12 wrote: »
It would depend on what you eat. You can eat high-carb and low-fiber.lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »mantium999 wrote: »For those who find carbs to be a particular issue, do you still try to hit suggested fiber targets, while minimizing your carb intake?
Yes, I was 2 grams away from hitting fiber yesterday.
(It's not all carbs that are an issue, more high glycemic load foods.)
But I thought we established that you didn't minimize carbs.
Oh, I agree, but I thought the question was directed to low carb types.
For the record, I don't have an issue meeting fiber targets, but I'm not low carb. ;-)
I now meet fiber goals without even trying. I have a couple micros I need work on and probably should eat more protein, but I'm getting very close to the healthy, well-balanced diet I strive for.
Now I'm confused, but no worries. ;-)
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »mantium999 wrote: »For those who find carbs to be a particular issue, do you still try to hit suggested fiber targets, while minimizing your carb intake?
No, I don't find the evidence for the ever increasing recommendations for fiber or even fruits and vegetables to be particularly compelling so it's not a concern. I do think fruits and vegetables are healthful though so using fiber as a proxy for that I'm pretty satisfied with getting around 10g a day.
Say what?!0 -
I've done lowered carbs, lowered fat, etc..
For me, keeping the caloric deficit the same, and generally eating the same daily caloric intake, I saw not difference in weight loss - though i lost weight in each case. The constant in each case was the caloric deficit, and that allowed me to lose weight. Nothing worked faster or better for me. Also, I gained back exactly the same when I stop trying the different eating plans. Now, I personally felt like I had less energy at times on low carbs. I also hated cutting out fats and while I like protein rich food a lot, I love me breads and grains.
I dunno. Go with what you think works I guess.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »mantium999 wrote: »For those who find carbs to be a particular issue, do you still try to hit suggested fiber targets, while minimizing your carb intake?
No, I don't find the evidence for the ever increasing recommendations for fiber or even fruits and vegetables to be particularly compelling so it's not a concern. I do think fruits and vegetables are healthful though so using fiber as a proxy for that I'm pretty satisfied with getting around 10g a day.
Say what?!
They based their dietary guidelines on inconsistent and weak studies at best, in my non-expert opinion. So I choose to rely on my own good judgement as to what constitutes a healthful diet instead.0 -
...I don't believe carbs or any food are "addictive", but I think a lot of people have confused strong cravings with actual addiction. And for reasons I can't understand, some folks seem really dedicated to calling themselves "addicts" when in reality they're in the category of what I'd consider to be "problem eaters" or "problem drinkers". Because of that, I feel the term "addiction" has been pretty well co-opted and even trivialized by over-use and inappropriate use. And that's a shame because it muddies the water when trying to discuss interventions, behavior change strategies, and treatments. But I think we're stuck with the way people use the word now.mantium999 wrote: »For those who find carbs to be a particular issue, do you still try to hit suggested fiber targets, while minimizing your carb intake?
How would you differentiate a problem drinker from an addict?
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".0 -
I lost weight because I "learned moderation." I didn't "learn moderation" because I lost weight. That completely switches cause and effect. Maybe that works differently for other people.AlabasterVerve wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".
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mantium999 wrote: »For those who find carbs to be a particular issue, do you still try to hit suggested fiber targets, while minimizing your carb intake?
I don't believe carbs or any food are "addictive", but I think a lot of people have confused strong cravings with actual addiction. And for reasons I can't understand, some folks seem really dedicated to calling themselves "addicts" when in reality they're in the category of what I'd consider to be "problem eaters" or "problem drinkers". Because of that, I feel the term "addiction" has been pretty well co-opted and even trivialized by over-use and inappropriate use. And that's a shame because it muddies the water when trying to discuss interventions, behavior change strategies, and treatments. But I think we're stuck with the way people use the word now.
I absolutely agree with this.
Yes, so do I.
I think the issue is as much compulsive behaviour which people confuse with addiction (but actually isn't). When I see someone say they are "addicted" to certain food items I assume this is what they are describing.
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IR is likely related to how some people experience it, I think. Not for me, but that's my theory for why low carb makes a difference for many too.
What Psulemon says is consistent with what I've read as well. NOT that I think it's truly an addiction--supposedly the food that scored highest as an issue on the Yale Addiction thing is pizza, and there's nothing about the components of pizza that makes it unique, and of course it's a combination of fat, carbs, and salty stuff generally. (It's also not inherently super "processed"--the pizza I mostly eat and crave is from an Italian restaurant and similar to homemade but with a really good pizza oven.)
I did find that changing how I ate helped me feel more in control, but I think I had enough awareness that I was eating stupidly (for me) when I was doing it that the physical aspects weren't perceived by me as something wrong with me, specifically--I knew I was eating carby stuff for the quick energy and then crashing, and similarly I knew I was eating stuff for self comfort and that was inducing a habit that caused me to want what I was used to having at certain times. (I'm not IR and wasn't then, based on all relevant tests, so I imagine the effect on actual hunger would be more significant if one was. I don't see hunger as similar to addiction at all, though.)
The habit stuff was more significant for me than the physical stuff (and is much harder to deal with), and I really think that is what makes it feel more out of control for most people. (This is related to the comfort food cravings too, of course.)0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
I lost weight because I "learned moderation." I didn't "learn moderation" because I lost weight. That completely switches cause and effect. Maybe that works differently for other people.AlabasterVerve wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".
I think you're misunderstanding what AlabasterVerve is suggesting. The theory is that IR impacts cravings, and by reducing carbs, the cravings are reduced, allowing the person to be successful with their weight loss. As we know, weight loss improves IR, meaning that once someone is a healthy weight and no longer dealing with the IR, they find themselves able to moderate foods that previously they found themselves overeating.
I don't know how much scientific support there is for this, but it's an interesting idea, and could help explain why moderation is more difficult for some people. @AlabasterVerve, did you read this somewhere, or is this just you positing this idea?0 -
I don't misunderstand it. I said I was able to moderate, which lead to the weight loss, rather than the weight loss leading to my ability to moderate. And I said it may work differently for other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »
I lost weight because I "learned moderation." I didn't "learn moderation" because I lost weight. That completely switches cause and effect. Maybe that works differently for other people.AlabasterVerve wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".
I think you're misunderstanding what AlabasterVerve is suggesting. The theory is that IR impacts cravings, and by reducing carbs, the cravings are reduced, allowing the person to be successful with their weight loss. As we know, weight loss improves IR, meaning that once someone is a healthy weight and no longer dealing with the IR, they find themselves able to moderate foods that previously they found themselves overeating.
I don't know how much scientific support there is for this, but it's an interesting idea, and could help explain why moderation is more difficult for some people. @AlabasterVerve, did you read this somewhere, or is this just you positing this idea?
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
I lost weight because I "learned moderation." I didn't "learn moderation" because I lost weight. That completely switches cause and effect. Maybe that works differently for other people.AlabasterVerve wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".
I think you're misunderstanding what AlabasterVerve is suggesting. The theory is that IR impacts cravings, and by reducing carbs, the cravings are reduced, allowing the person to be successful with their weight loss. As we know, weight loss improves IR, meaning that once someone is a healthy weight and no longer dealing with the IR, they find themselves able to moderate foods that previously they found themselves overeating.
I don't know how much scientific support there is for this, but it's an interesting idea, and could help explain why moderation is more difficult for some people. @AlabasterVerve, did you read this somewhere, or is this just you positing this idea?
No, it's not new. The earliest reference to it I've found so far is from 1993 (I posted this earlier):
"It is proposed that chronic hyperinsulinemia is largely responsible for hunger, cravings and weight gain observed in many obese. This form of obesity can be treated by decreasing frequency of daily intake of carbohydrates to one well-balance meal each day and allowing for additional meals that are low in fat, low carbohydrates and high fiber. Animal experimentation and epidemiological evidence support the role of chronic hyperinsulinemia as a major factor in obesity and accounts for the frequent failures of diet and behavioral modification programs. Chronic hyperinsulinemia upsets metabolic balances and favors anabolic metabolism; fosters carbohydrate cravings; promotes insulin resistance which further promotes anabolic metabolism; and insulin resistance in turn exacerbates chronic hyperinsulinemia. This vicious cycle maintains excess weight and defeats diet and behavioral modification attempts to treat obesity. An eating program focused on reduction of chronic hyperinsulinemia coupled with appropriate exercise and behavior modification can successfully and permanently bring down cravings, hunger and body weight." --Hyperinsulinemic obesity and carbohydrate addiction: the missing link is the carbohydrate frequency factor
ETA: I really have no idea how mainstream any of these theories are since most everything I read on the subject comes through those who favor low carb.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".
This seems to be true for me. I had some IR, and it is simpler for me when I am away from carbs.
Dr Bernstein, a diabetes specialist, seems to support this theory.0 -
Insulin Resistance is not a new idea, the problem is that everyone who is overweight and has food cravings is grabbing onto it as a reason for why they overeat. Problem being that IR is a comorbidity, and doesn't simply exist in every obese/overweight person, and it takes a lot of other conditions in the body to cause IR to happen: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/122501-overview#a3. While diabetes Type II is becoming more common in the first world population in general, it is still not a high percentage of the obese population. Again, multiple conditions in the body required to make that happen.0
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »It is true for some people, not you maybe. Definitely true for me. When I have a craving it is never for something high protein, it is ALWAYS for carbs. Sometimes I crave cheese, but more often it's bread, cakes, crackers or cookies.
I don't understand why these things always get thrown into the carbs category when they are mostly fat?
For instance, a chocolate chip cookie is about 3% of the RDA of carbs and 6% of the RDA of fat. Cake is 17% carbs and 25% fat.
It just drives me a little batty because then whole food carbs like potatoes and rice get thrown in with these other types of carbs (fats) and people avoid them even though they are good for you.
So fat is the problem for you. Not me. People differ.
That's not what she's saying at all. She's saying that the foods people often cite being "addicted" to are full of fat, too - so why are we assuming that carbs are the issue?
If you crave carbs, wouldn't you crave all carbs? Like potatoes, vegetables, dried fruits? It seems there's a clearer correlation between "cravings" and fat vs "cravings" and carbs. IMO, anyway. And perhaps when people go low carb, they generally up their fat, and their "cravings" are reduced because their fat intake is up.
It's an interesting point but there is some indication that sugar is unique in it's ability to induce cravings -- the milkshake study from a year or two comes to mind. That, and I just tend to believe people when they say carbs and sugar are the issue. I imagine that by the time they get to MFP seeking help they've been dealing with their issue long enough to know.
And I think they are latching onto the current craze.
I mean, if you google "how to lose weight" the very first thing listed is "eat low carb". Carbs and sugar are the current "bad" food, like fat was in the 80's.
I think humans are, more often than not, looking for things to blame when we make bad choices. It's much easier to say "I'm addicted to carbs" than "I didn't control myself very well". One places blame on something external, the other internal.
Again, all of this is my opinion.
I think it was a long time coming and it was inevitable because it's a real concern (not a low carb craze) but that could just be my own bias. Time will tell. I did just come across an article from 1993 (22 years ago when fat was bad and carbs were good) that proposes excessive carbs are a real concern... beyond being tasty and people would rather eat them than lose weight.
"It is proposed that chronic hyperinsulinemia is largely responsible for hunger, cravings and weight gain observed in many obese. This form of obesity can be treated by decreasing frequency of daily intake of carbohydrates to one well-balance meal each day and allowing for additional meals that are low in fat, low carbohydrates and high fiber. Animal experimentation and epidemiological evidence support the role of chronic hyperinsulinemia as a major factor in obesity and accounts for the frequent failures of diet and behavioral modification programs. Chronic hyperinsulinemia upsets metabolic balances and favors anabolic metabolism; fosters carbohydrate cravings; promotes insulin resistance which further promotes anabolic metabolism; and insulin resistance in turn exacerbates chronic hyperinsulinemia. This vicious cycle maintains excess weight and defeats diet and behavioral modification attempts to treat obesity. An eating program focused on reduction of chronic hyperinsulinemia coupled with appropriate exercise and behavior modification can successfully and permanently bring down cravings, hunger and body weight." --Hyperinsulinemic obesity and carbohydrate addiction: the missing link is the carbohydrate frequency factor
I think there's much more to be learned yet.
The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »It is true for some people, not you maybe. Definitely true for me. When I have a craving it is never for something high protein, it is ALWAYS for carbs. Sometimes I crave cheese, but more often it's bread, cakes, crackers or cookies.
I don't understand why these things always get thrown into the carbs category when they are mostly fat?
For instance, a chocolate chip cookie is about 3% of the RDA of carbs and 6% of the RDA of fat. Cake is 17% carbs and 25% fat.
It just drives me a little batty because then whole food carbs like potatoes and rice get thrown in with these other types of carbs (fats) and people avoid them even though they are good for you.
So fat is the problem for you. Not me. People differ.
That's not what she's saying at all. She's saying that the foods people often cite being "addicted" to are full of fat, too - so why are we assuming that carbs are the issue?
If you crave carbs, wouldn't you crave all carbs? Like potatoes, vegetables, dried fruits? It seems there's a clearer correlation between "cravings" and fat vs "cravings" and carbs. IMO, anyway. And perhaps when people go low carb, they generally up their fat, and their "cravings" are reduced because their fat intake is up.
It's an interesting point but there is some indication that sugar is unique in it's ability to induce cravings -- the milkshake study from a year or two comes to mind. That, and I just tend to believe people when they say carbs and sugar are the issue. I imagine that by the time they get to MFP seeking help they've been dealing with their issue long enough to know.
And I think they are latching onto the current craze.
I mean, if you google "how to lose weight" the very first thing listed is "eat low carb". Carbs and sugar are the current "bad" food, like fat was in the 80's.
I think humans are, more often than not, looking for things to blame when we make bad choices. It's much easier to say "I'm addicted to carbs" than "I didn't control myself very well". One places blame on something external, the other internal.
Again, all of this is my opinion.
I think it was a long time coming and it was inevitable because it's a real concern (not a low carb craze) but that could just be my own bias. Time will tell. I did just come across an article from 1993 (22 years ago when fat was bad and carbs were good) that proposes excessive carbs are a real concern... beyond being tasty and people would rather eat them than lose weight.
"It is proposed that chronic hyperinsulinemia is largely responsible for hunger, cravings and weight gain observed in many obese. This form of obesity can be treated by decreasing frequency of daily intake of carbohydrates to one well-balance meal each day and allowing for additional meals that are low in fat, low carbohydrates and high fiber. Animal experimentation and epidemiological evidence support the role of chronic hyperinsulinemia as a major factor in obesity and accounts for the frequent failures of diet and behavioral modification programs. Chronic hyperinsulinemia upsets metabolic balances and favors anabolic metabolism; fosters carbohydrate cravings; promotes insulin resistance which further promotes anabolic metabolism; and insulin resistance in turn exacerbates chronic hyperinsulinemia. This vicious cycle maintains excess weight and defeats diet and behavioral modification attempts to treat obesity. An eating program focused on reduction of chronic hyperinsulinemia coupled with appropriate exercise and behavior modification can successfully and permanently bring down cravings, hunger and body weight." --Hyperinsulinemic obesity and carbohydrate addiction: the missing link is the carbohydrate frequency factor
I think there's much more to be learned yet.
The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Imagine that. 0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".
I had IR when I first started this weight loss thing. I never had cravings, at all. I didn't moderate my food, because I was too depressed to care about my health or weight. Moderation definitely came first for me, which allowed me to lose 85 pounds and successfully reverse my IR.
Anecdotal, I know - just food for thought
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »The science on carb addiction is inconclusive at this point. It hasn't been 100% proven and it is a controversial subject. However, many academics who have spent their entire careers looking at these types of issues believe it may be real. That is why the research continues...more information is needed. In the meantime, experiment and find what works best for you. For some people, including me, avoiding certain carbs is the best and most sustainable way to go. But it's not for everyone.
My research reading and experience backs up your thoughts on the subject.
Some of the more recent research i have seen would suggest that it isnt carbs that are addictive but rather hyperpalatble foods. I believe their is assertion is that many of the foods people claim to be addicited to isnt a sugar food but rather a food that is both fat and sugar. And in many cases those are foods (cookies, cake, etc) which are actually higher in fat than sugar itself.
If we objectively looked at this, if it was just a sugar issue, they why arent people addicted to fruits and veggies?
IMO, most of these so called "addiction foods" are more than likely peoples comfort foods that they have developed a habit of turning to when sad. This is why i have always said its more emotional than physical. And this is why i believe its different than alcohol and drugs because your body can form physical dependencies on those.
I think it's insulin resistance that's driving the cravings and loss of control in a lot of these instances for a lot of people. My cravings, insatiable appetite and out of control eating get switched off like a light switch eating low carb -- that's not emotional or an addiction (even though it feels like it). It could also explain why when some people lose weight and exercise (both improve IR) they "learn moderation".
I had IR when I first started this weight loss thing. I never had cravings, at all. I didn't moderate my food, because I was too depressed to care about my health or weight. Moderation definitely came first for me, which allowed me to lose 85 pounds and successfully reverse my IR.
Anecdotal, I know - just food for thought
I don't know about anyone else but I always appreciate reading about people's personal experiences. I think there's more value in the anecdotal for anyone who's struggling than the link-a-study nonsense that goes on. So thanks for sharing.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
Did you read my post and the source listed? unbiased, independent source? biased sources skew results to find what they want to see.
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I don't mean this to be rude but I do consider the source of everything I read which is why I generally don't reply to many of the posts here. If there was an ignore function I'd utilize it.AlabasterVerve wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »The source? Author of The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet.
Do you think the hypothesis is without merit or supporting research then?
Did you read my post and the source listed? unbiased, independent source? biased sources skew results to find what they want to see.
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kshama2001 wrote: »
...I don't believe carbs or any food are "addictive", but I think a lot of people have confused strong cravings with actual addiction. And for reasons I can't understand, some folks seem really dedicated to calling themselves "addicts" when in reality they're in the category of what I'd consider to be "problem eaters" or "problem drinkers". Because of that, I feel the term "addiction" has been pretty well co-opted and even trivialized by over-use and inappropriate use. And that's a shame because it muddies the water when trying to discuss interventions, behavior change strategies, and treatments. But I think we're stuck with the way people use the word now.mantium999 wrote: »For those who find carbs to be a particular issue, do you still try to hit suggested fiber targets, while minimizing your carb intake?
How would you differentiate a problem drinker from an addict?
I'm the perfect example of a problem drinker. I've had alcohol cause me so many issues in my life that about 8 months ago I decided to quit completely. Longest I've ever not drank in my life. I say I'm a problem drinker because when I do drink I don't stop. I don't classify myself as an addict since I don't crave alcohol or have to have it.
ETA: Also I'm not an addict because I knew perfectly well when I would start off with one or two drinks where the day/night would lead. I was capable of stopping and cutting myself off after a few drinks- problem is deep down, I didn't want to.0 -
mantium999 wrote: »For those who find carbs to be a particular issue, do you still try to hit suggested fiber targets, while minimizing your carb intake?
I don't know if I am in the right category to respond to your question. I don't find carbs to be an issue. But I am participating in a study, and one of the things they've requested of participants is that we set our carbs to 30-35%. From what I've read about low-carb diets, I am thinking that 30-35% is on the very high end of carb reduction and may not even be considered to be low-carb (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
So with that in mind: I usually hit suggested fiber targets and stay within the carb limits, but not always. I'm usually close even on "off" days unless I decide I really want some Talenti gelato.
Once I'm done with the study I will probably up the carb level to a more normal range of 40-50% because I really like grains.
I don't believe carbs or any food are "addictive", but I think a lot of people have confused strong cravings with actual addiction. And for reasons I can't understand, some folks seem really dedicated to calling themselves "addicts" when in reality they're in the category of what I'd consider to be "problem eaters" or "problem drinkers". Because of that, I feel the term "addiction" has been pretty well co-opted and even trivialized by over-use and inappropriate use. And that's a shame because it muddies the water when trying to discuss interventions, behavior change strategies, and treatments. But I think we're stuck with the way people use the word now.
My carbs are the same percentage as yours. So wherever that falls on the spectrum of carb counting? I don't consider it low, though. I usually call it moderate. I do it to keep my energy levels in check, since I have fatigue associated with a few medical conditions. If I have too many carbs, they make me sleepy. Too few, and I have no energy.
I have a high fiber goal for myself--40grams--and usually come close or go over. A good chunk of that comes from a daily Quest bar, but I do eat plenty of veg and fruit and often eat beans and some grains since I'm a vegetarian.
I also cosign your last paragraph.
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