Building muscle while losing fat??

vlovell24

Hello everyone,
Here is my question. I have lost 30lb in the last 2 months, and I have at least 65 more to go. I eat a 1200 calorie diet, do hiit for 20 minutes a day, 5 days a week. I try and get over 100 grams of protein a day to avoid lbm loss. Anyway, can I lift heavy and gain muscle mass while on a deficit? My thinking is that the body will pull the extra calories that it needs from existing fat stores, and as long as I am getting adequate protein then I should be able to build muscle. I am trying to avoid being thin with no muscle mass. But, even Lyle Mcdonald says you can't gain muscle while on a deficit. Thoughts?

malibu927

Lyle is correct. You'll maintain your muscle mass with lifting heavy and protein intake, but you won't build on 1200 calories.

loulamb7

You may have some noob gains but they will be limited. However the lifting will help you minimize muscle loss and make you stronger. You may not be able to gain much muscle but you can gain strength.

Giolis

If you're new to weight lifting you will get newbie gains even on a deficit.

rhoda1990

I think you can build muscle and burn, while on a cutting diet. Llye is probably referring to an advance bodybuilder who needs to focus on one goal.

Right now I am building muscle and burning at the same time. And yes you should be strength training, regarless! It feels good to be strong, and muscular. You can try one of these routines http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=135564721
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843

rhoda1990

And 1200 is crazy low!

Giolis

Not as much as if you were in a surplus but still gain.

vlovell24

Dangit, I was really hoping. So strength, but not mass. I started lifting heavy this week, so I guess I will just keep on trucking. Thanks.

stephxo1

It's highly unlikely that you will gain muscle mass on 1200cals. You may cut away fat which will show more muscle underneath but they won't be growing unless you're totally new to weight training. Those muscles need a calorie surplus to grow.

vlovell24

I know that 1200 is pretty eww, but I did a protein sparing modified fast for awhile, so 1200 calories is actually a lot compared to that. I do well on it, plus I am female so it's not too bad.

jeffpettis

Muscle can't be built from nothing. Yes you will get very limited "noob" gains, though probably not on 1200 calories, but they will be very short lived. As a female you might be able to turn your noob gains into maybe a pound of new muscle.

On the other hand you can absolutely gain strength while in a deficit.

The reason people believe they have gained muscle while losing fat is because the muscle you have is obviously going to be more visible once there is less fat covering it. That is where the "toned' look comes from. Of course there has to be a reasonable amount of muscle there to begin with.

Either way, keep lifting.

stephxo1

If you are in fact lifting heavy then you must be fatigued during a workout on 1200cals a day. I'm currently cutting on between 1800-2000cals a day and bulked on 3000cals to add some pretty good muscle mass. And this is with minimal cardio to keep my gains in tact. Although I'm 5'9" so that might play a part in the higher cals. But seriously, feed those muscles in order to grow and for adequate recover too.

Liftng4Lis

You can ride the "Newbie" gains train, but 1200 will almost ensure that ride will be short.

arditarose

I'm a believer in noob gains given the proper training and nutrition. Not on 1200 calories though.

mccindy72

vlovell24 wrote: »

I know that 1200 is pretty eww, but I did a protein sparing modified fast for awhile, so 1200 calories is actually a lot compared to that. I do well on it, plus I am female so it's not too bad.

Are you sure 1200 calories is even enough for you? Did you enter your stats into MFP to get a recommended calorie deficit to follow? Even with a high level of protein, if you aren't getting enough calories, you will lose lean muscle. and it's not a good idea to lose weight too fast.
but yes, definitely keep lifting, you'll be happier with your appearance and muscle strength, even though you aren't building it. Once you hit your goal weight and body fat % you want, you can always eat at a calorie surplus and heavy lift to do a bulk.

loulamb7

mccindy72 wrote: »

if you aren't getting enough calories, you will lose lean muscle. and it's not a good idea to lose weight too fast.

I had the same thought. Looks like you lost 30 lbs in 2 months. You should probably adjust for a slower rate of loss to minimize muscle loss.

vlovell24

Mfp has me at 1200 calories a day, which is what I have been doing. I did psmf for about 2 weeks, then I transitioned into 1200 calorie. It was better for me to be strict and drastic for a short period. It helped me get over sugar cravings and smaller portions easier. I am fine at 1200, and I get through my workouts with no problems.

XavierNusum

vlovell24 wrote: »

Hello everyone,
Here is my question. I have lost 30lb in the last 2 months, and I have at least 65 more to go. I eat a 1200 calorie diet, do hiit for 20 minutes a day, 5 days a week. I try and get over 100 grams of protein a day to avoid lbm loss. Anyway, can I lift heavy and gain muscle mass while on a deficit? My thinking is that the body will pull the extra calories that it needs from existing fat stores, and as long as I am getting adequate protein then I should be able to build muscle. I am trying to avoid being thin with no muscle mass. But, even Lyle Mcdonald says you can't gain muscle while on a deficit. Thoughts?

At 1200 calories and doing HIIT, your probably not going to gain or even preserve lean muscle. That's too little for any normal sized human being.

arditarose

vlovell24 wrote: »

Mfp has me at 1200 calories a day, which is what I have been doing. I did psmf for about 2 weeks, then I transitioned into 1200 calorie. It was better for me to be strict and drastic for a short period. It helped me get over sugar cravings and smaller portions easier. I am fine at 1200, and I get through my workouts with no problems.

Just because an electronic device, a tool, that doesn't even know anything about you tells you to eat 1200 calories doesn't mean it's going to help you meet your goals. You'll lose fat yes, and plenty of muscle.

colors_fade

Giolis wrote: »

Not as much as if you were in a surplus but still gain.

This.

It is possible. Muscle Protein Synthesis is slowed down during a calorie deficit, but it's not halted. You can still elevate MPS levels by lifting heavy. If you follow a full-body, compound-lift program 3x per week, then you can keep your MPS elevated and you can build muscle, albeit much slower than someone who is eating at a surplus.

But there is a caveat to this: you will have to fuel your body, probably more than you are now with 1200 calories.

You can still eat at a deficit, but you're going to have to fuel your body correctly, meaning adequate protein consumption for MPS, and adequate carbohydrate consumption for energy. You're already doing HIIT... So you're going to want to maintain a modest deficit, not a large one.

If you shoot for too large of a deficit, you're simply not going to be able to fuel your workouts. You'll be hungry, possibly resulting in binge eating and other bad decisions, etc.

I think you definitely want to lift heavy to maintain lean body mass. But don't create unrealistic expectations about gaining a lot of muscle. It can be done, but it's probably not the primary focus while you're trying to cut 65 more pounds.

vlovell24

Thank you for the replies. I do struggle with protein, so I am going to add in some shakes to help. I have a friend that did high protein, 1500 calorie, and very heavy (and dedicated) lifting. He has lost 45lbs, but his muscle is outstanding. I figured that if he can build muscle on a deficit, then I should be able to as well. And, no, he wasn't a lifter before. He started as a sedentary dude, and 4 months later...holy cow.

vlovell24

Wait, he's been doing it for 6 months.

senecarr

Lyle also mentions that an obese individual (not sure what your BMI is to say how much it applies to you) is a bit of an exception to the idea.
As others have said, you can have some noob gains, and depending on how much you have to lose, you might have some gains before your body's insulin sensitivity goes up (at least that's the mechanism Lyle attributes it to) such that you'd need more of a calorie surplus for gains.

XavierNusum

vlovell24 wrote: »

Thank you for the replies. I do struggle with protein, so I am going to add in some shakes to help. I have a friend that did high protein, 1500 calorie, and very heavy (and dedicated) lifting. He has lost 45lbs, but his muscle is outstanding. I figured that if he can build muscle on a deficit, then I should be able to as well. And, no, he wasn't a lifter before. He started as a sedentary dude, and 4 months later...holy cow.

It can be done, but the it lacks serious longevity. You can't sustain this type of routine. It will work for a lump sum of weight but then you will plateau. If you're lucky you might make it to "goal weight" before it happens, but you'll find it's near impossible to sustain. Not to mention all of the ill effects of severe, sustained calorie deficits: cold extremities, irritability, mood swings, hormonal chaos and even hair loss.
https://chriskresser.com/are-you-an-under-eater-8-signs-youre-not-eating-enough/

Please come by the EM2WL group and find sustainable, healthy way to reach your goals.
community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/3817-eat-more-2-weigh-less

LynGrahamKemp

This has been a helpful thread. I am on week 6 of weight training and I always have a problem with deciding on my caloric intake. I was at 1900 calories previously and gained 10lbs, but lost 16 inches all over. I'm still not sure where I need to be with my caloric intake, especially since I've incorporated HIIT after my weight sessions, but the comments here are beneficial.

XavierNusum

LynGrahamKemp wrote: »

This has been a helpful thread. I am on week 6 of weight training and I always have a problem with deciding on my caloric intake. I was at 1900 calories previously and gained 10lbs, but lost 16 inches all over. I'm still not sure where I need to be with my caloric intake, especially since I've incorporated HIIT after my weight sessions, but the comments here are beneficial.

You can take your stats (ht , wt, age, active hours) and plug them into the Scooby Calculator and it will give you approximations of deficit, maintenance and surplus calorie levels!

yopeeps025

OP if this was possible how do you think the average man would look?

blissalexandra

Calorific intake way too low. Especially if u train hard. Dont forget carbs too u need to have a decent ratio of food. So if u increase one decrease another.. Especially for your sprints u need yummy carbs. I do the same I do interval sprinting & weight lifting il have over 2000 calories a day
The type of training you need to do to build muscle(hypertrophy) whilst building muscle you lose fat anyway so I would increase your calories and train hard !!

loulamb7

vlovell24 wrote: »

Mfp has me at 1200 calories a day, which is what I have been doing. .... I am fine at 1200, and I get through my workouts with no problems.

MFP's calculation is just an estimate, you need to adjust based on your experience. Are you at least eating some of your exercise calories back? Otherwise this will not be sustainable with your plans to lift and maintain muscle.

CSARdiver

You need to check out this thread - one of MFP's finest:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat/p1

LynGrahamKemp

XavierNusum wrote: »

LynGrahamKemp wrote: »

This has been a helpful thread. I am on week 6 of weight training and I always have a problem with deciding on my caloric intake. I was at 1900 calories previously and gained 10lbs, but lost 16 inches all over. I'm still not sure where I need to be with my caloric intake, especially since I've incorporated HIIT after my weight sessions, but the comments here are beneficial.

You can take your stats (ht , wt, age, active hours) and plug them into the Scooby Calculator and it will give you approximations of deficit, maintenance and surplus


Thanks for this information! After using the calculator, I realized I need more food since adding the HIIT