"Toning" is a deception
Replies
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Somewhere after 1993 it must have been added to the dictionary because my Merriam Webster from 1993 doesn't have that listed.
What they do have is tonus - Greek for tension, act of stretching.
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daniwilford wrote: »No_Finish_Line wrote: »
although there are some instances where you can actually build mass while in a deficit, like if you are brand new to weight training...
I think what's mostly going on is the fact that you can condition a muscle (more endurance and even strength) without actually adding muscle mass.
you see that you are lifting more but there is not a 1 to 1 relationship between mass building and strength
I need the weight training for dummies version, please explain the difference between building and strengthening a muscle?
You can strengthen a muscle without it actually getting bigger- it just gets more efficient at moving the load.
Making it bigger actually makes a large mass.1 -
Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
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One can add strength without adding size. This happens quite often with people in deficit/maintenance. Building muscle would require a surplus of calories because it's improbable to build new tissue from nothing.daniwilford wrote: »No_Finish_Line wrote: »
although there are some instances where you can actually build mass while in a deficit, like if you are brand new to weight training...
I think what's mostly going on is the fact that you can condition a muscle (more endurance and even strength) without actually adding muscle mass.
you see that you are lifting more but there is not a 1 to 1 relationship between mass building and strength
I need the weight training for dummies version, please explain the difference between building and strengthening a muscle?
Reps and sets will play into this too depending on what you're trying to achieve.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Cambridgepiperdown44 wrote: »Somewhere after 1993 it must have been added to the dictionary because my Merriam Webster from 1993 doesn't have that listed.
What they do have is tonus - Greek for tension, act of stretching.
tone noun (TIGHTNESS)
› the healthy tightness of the body, especially the muscles:
Merriam Webster
Definition of TONUS
: tone 9a; especially : a state of partial contraction characteristic of normal muscle0 -
Very well thought out post. I always lift heavy 3 days a week at the gym. If I don't I leave there feeling like I haven't accomplished anything.0
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Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
wow. what a pile of hogwash
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In the eighties, we were led to believe that doing a kazillion reps with the tiniest little weights was good for us. That seems fairly useless to me. I tried it back in the day. You never get stronger doing it. I would rather lift a heavier weight that I can do 8-10 reps of and get my whole upper body routine done fairly quickly than flap my arms up and down and back and forth for an hour or more with teensy tiny ridiculous pink weights. I still have friends with those 1, 2, and 3 lb candy colored weights, too... after all these years. I still see women in the gym afraid to put more than 20 lb on the machines. One day women will stop worrying that they're going to look like men by lifting, and not be afraid to get under the hood of their own car, and, and, and.0
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In the eighties, we were led to believe that doing a kazillion reps with the tiniest little weights was good for us. That seems fairly useless to me. I tried it back in the day. You never get stronger doing it. I would rather lift a heavier weight that I can do 8-10 reps of and get my whole upper body routine done fairly quickly than flap my arms up and down and back and forth for an hour or more with teensy tiny ridiculous pink weights. I still have friends with those 1, 2, and 3 lb candy colored weights, too... after all these years. I still see women in the gym afraid to put more than 20 lb on the machines. One day women will stop worrying that they're going to look like men by lifting, and not be afraid to get under the hood of their own car, and, and, and.
carry on
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Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
Wow. Haven't seen someone claim yoga overrides genetics in awhile :huh:0 -
Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
Weight lifters who have "muscle bunching up" have more muscle than those without "bunching up" muscles. It seems to make sense that increased muscle mass is going to give the appearance of larger muscles, correct?
As for long and lean muscles and yoga, I'll defer to Bret Contreras in Long, Lean Muscles: Oh, the Irony.0 -
Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
That doesn't make sense.0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
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Incorrect. Length of muscles are determined when you're conceived. You can't lengthen them or "bunch" them up any more than one can increase one's height by hopefully drinking more milk (remember that commercial). It's information like this from yoga instructors that need to be refuted because physiology doesn't actually work that way. If a weight lifter looks "bunched" up, it's because they have more muscle in their arms than one who does yoga. That's all.Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
If you don't think nutrition has anything to do with gene expression, then you feel asleep in high school biology0 -
daniwilford wrote: »No_Finish_Line wrote: »
although there are some instances where you can actually build mass while in a deficit, like if you are brand new to weight training...
I think what's mostly going on is the fact that you can condition a muscle (more endurance and even strength) without actually adding muscle mass.
you see that you are lifting more but there is not a 1 to 1 relationship between mass building and strength
I need the weight training for dummies version, please explain the difference between building and strengthening a muscle?
I guess its going to have to take someone more knowledgeable then I to truly give you a scientific explanation.
This is pretty much the extent of my knowledge:
as you train with a muscle, you establish a better neurological pathway. Your brain gets better at recruiting existing muscle fibers. more muscle fibers actively working means you can lift more weight. so while you're not adding muscle mass, you're using more of what you have and therefore you can do more work.
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i guess my point was, sticky it or don't sticky it, its not going to stop the endless SPAM. i guess maybe i should have said 'nice try'?0
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This content has been removed.
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No_Finish_Line wrote: »i guess my point was, sticky it or don't sticky it, its not going to stop the endless SPAM. i guess maybe i should have said 'nice try'?
it should be a sticky to atleast reduce the amount of the same posts re toning we have each day.0 -
Wow.........just wow. Sound like something that Tracey Anderson would say.Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
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I'm just thinking that if I did a headstand the wrong way, yes, my neck muscles would probably bunch up in an "ow, that hurt" kind of way but not in an "oh wow, look at her traps" kind of way.0
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Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
Umm... are you talking about traps???
Because.... weight lifters develop those intentionally... not from... incorrect handstands...
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Therealobi1 wrote: »No_Finish_Line wrote: »i guess my point was, sticky it or don't sticky it, its not going to stop the endless SPAM. i guess maybe i should have said 'nice try'?
it should be a sticky to atleast reduce the amount of the same posts re toning we have each day.
Make it a sticky! So next time a poster asks,"what can I do to tone?", the thread won't be a barrage of "there's no such thing" or "you can't".0 -
I've been saying this for 20+ years. It's amazing how people will follow anything that is marketed without questioning it's validity.0
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Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
Lol0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
not big into the sciences are you???
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Therealobi1 wrote: »No_Finish_Line wrote: »i guess my point was, sticky it or don't sticky it, its not going to stop the endless SPAM. i guess maybe i should have said 'nice try'?
it should be a sticky to atleast reduce the amount of the same posts re toning we have each day.
Make it a sticky! So next time a poster asks,"what can I do to tone?", the thread won't be a barrage of "there's no such thing" or "you can't".
although i do think that this is the general 'tone' of the thread, if you read more careful i think its basically pointed out that the real misnomer is when you apply the term to exercise itself.
doing higher reps, lower weight to 'tone' muscle is a myth
saying one wants to 'tone up' or look more tone is really more a matter of semantics. If it offends you in this case, fine, but they are really two different things.0 -
Patttience wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »"Lean muscle" and make the muscles "longer" are a couple more that hurt the ears.
I think longer muscles actually mean something. Weight lifters tend not to have longer muscles that's why they get all that muscle bunching up in an ugly way above their shoulders. I learnt about this in yoga. When you do a headstand there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. If you do it the wrong way you would get those bunched up muscles but if you do it the right way you won't. Its been a while since i've done a headstand but i think the right way is to push into your elbows rather than clamping up around your neck to help you keep balanced.
Uh.... do you mean the trapezius muscle which everyone has?
They just tend to be more developed in individuals that actually lift weights...
Please don't talk about things that you don't understand.0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
not big into the sciences are you???
Not big into guessing right are you? Don't assume.0 -
Not disparaging on whether or not people use the word "tone" to encourage themselves to exercise. Just disparaging on the actual meaning. Whether people use it or not, I don't believe it's incorrect to inform others that the word is a deception in fitness.No don't sticky it. I use the words toning, building, strengthen, muscular... all of them and they all mean the same thing to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who understand the ideas behind words.
If someone wants to use the word 'tone' to get fitter and healthier then there is nothing wrong with that.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/home-toning-workout.aspx
If I wrote an article and labeled one "muscle conditioning" and the other "toning workout", I would bet dollars to donuts that the "toning" one would be viewed much more by many more females than the "muscle conditioning" one.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Mmm you could well be right about the female one and the two articles.
My comments were a general poke of my dislike about what is considered linguistically correct or incorrect. I'm a great believer in not telling people what's wrong and what's correct about language and terminology. Different words mean different things to different people and that's what niggles me.
Language is also fluid as you know and there maybe a new word next week....by the average joe's, the scientists or professionals.
so....you're saying that words don't have meaning?0 -
Thanks so much for your help. I think I understand now.No_Finish_Line wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »No_Finish_Line wrote: »
although there are some instances where you can actually build mass while in a deficit, like if you are brand new to weight training...
I think what's mostly going on is the fact that you can condition a muscle (more endurance and even strength) without actually adding muscle mass.
you see that you are lifting more but there is not a 1 to 1 relationship between mass building and strength
I need the weight training for dummies version, please explain the difference between building and strengthening a muscle?
I guess its going to have to take someone more knowledgeable then I to truly give you a scientific explanation.
This is pretty much the extent of my knowledge:
as you train with a muscle, you establish a better neurological pathway. Your brain gets better at recruiting existing muscle fibers. more muscle fibers actively working means you can lift more weight. so while you're not adding muscle mass, you're using more of what you have and therefore you can do more work.
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