Now That I Can Eat...Always Hungry

heybales

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

Hi OP: you mentioned a few times that you do only a little bit of cardio (though it could well be extremely intense cardio; I am saying a little bit in terms of total amount of time per week) and you are concerned about eating back the exercise calories.

A basic fitbit zip costs $59. For most people fitbit's TDEE calculation is not overstated.

If it is overstated it tends to be an overstatement of well under 10% and is often evidence of thermogenic adaptation which you may want to try to counteract anyway.

If you use a fitbit and enable negative adjustments (as per the MFP Fitbit group's FAQ written by @heybales ), you can then eat as per the fitbit suggestions with less concern about your exercise burns...

@PAV8888 Really? Hmmm.... I just have always heard that calorie trackers aren't accurate...
And I generally average about 30mins on the elliptical 3-4xs a week. 30mins for me on the elliptical = approximately 300cals. But since I don't have the option to plug in my data: age and weight... I don't trust it.
The treadmill at my gym, which I can plug my data into, has me burning only about 100 calories for the same amount of time going about the same speed! Does the elliptical burn more?

I was just looking at the zip on Amazon...sounds good! Do you actually have one?

They are pretty good accuracy for the other 23 hours of the day.

Your maybe 1 hr of exercise could vary. But what % of time is that in your week, and what % of weekly calorie burn is that anyway?
And if it's 50% off for that 1 hr - what total difference does that make now to the week?

Probably not much. Probably got more inaccuracies somewhere else.

But it is best to manually log some exercise, depending on what type of device you got.

Strength training should be manual on either step-based or HR-based devices, it's better accuracy.

The devices actually usually underestimate daily calorie burn by some amount.
The assign sleeping level BMR calorie burn to all non-moving time.
But when awake you actually burn slightly more - RMR.
When standing not moving you burn even more.
When digesting processing food you burn more - about 10% of calories eaten.

All that is unaccounted for.
Moving time is based on pace and mass - derived from steps and stride length seen - so accuracy there could be effected.

For the treadmill - only the weight is used for calorie burn calc, age is used for setting the HR zones in case you use the HRM. Pace and weight is all you need for really good calc. It's what Fitbit uses too.

Elliptical only needs weight too - but, there are no good elliptical formula's like there are walking/running - which is the vast majority of testing in lab research so very good formulas there.

So some of the ellipticals look at watts expended and assume a certain % of efficiency and base calorie burn on that - which isn't bad. Biking does the same thing with watt meters.
But elliptical has so many variables and very different ways of actually using your body to do it, can be thrown off easily.

So you can't relate speed between those machines.
Easiest would be get calorie burn from Treadmill doing a pace that causes the same HR you get on the elliptical.
That's exactly what a HRM would do for you anyway.

The step-based counters aren't accurate on ellipticals either for that exact same reason. If it even sees all the steps (impact could be low enough it doesn't), the distance it derives from softer impact will be all off, and calories based on that completely wrong.
In theory you could find the elliptical settings that caused the exact same distance and burn as treadmill - but that's a lot of work. Besides, the softer nature usually lets you do it harder than treadmill for better workout without the hard impacts.

heybales

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

Just for fun I calculated my TDEE w/ the following stats:
Female
39
5'1"
107lbs
Sedentary (because I have an office job)
Workouts per week: 4 x 30mins

Guess what it told me? 1350 are my maintenance calories.
TDEE gives me LESS than MFP! MFP doesn't even include exercise and it still says I can eat more! WTH?!

But you aren't sedentary if working out 2 hrs weekly.

That is clearly Lightly Active.

Be honest with yourself.

And that site has been found by many that know their TDEE's based on weight loss amounts - to be underestimated, by decent amount sometimes.

Might try this for better estimate, which includes questions about daily life, and what the workouts actually are.
2 hrs walking doesn't match 2 hrs running and 2 hrs lifting.

Just TDEE please, better than 5 level TDEE charts.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing

DoreenaV1975

heybales wrote: »

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

Just for fun I calculated my TDEE w/ the following stats:
Female
39
5'1"
107lbs
Sedentary (because I have an office job)
Workouts per week: 4 x 30mins

Guess what it told me? 1350 are my maintenance calories.
TDEE gives me LESS than MFP! MFP doesn't even include exercise and it still says I can eat more! WTH?!

But you aren't sedentary if working out 2 hrs weekly.

That is clearly Lightly Active.

Be honest with yourself.

And that site has been found by many that know their TDEE's based on weight loss amounts - to be underestimated, by decent amount sometimes.

Might try this for better estimate, which includes questions about daily life, and what the workouts actually are.
2 hrs walking doesn't match 2 hrs running and 2 hrs lifting.

Just TDEE please, better than 5 level TDEE charts.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing

@heybales ...
I did sedentary because of my office job.
Thinking that my exercise data wouldn't count until I got to the part about exercise; where you enter those stats.
So I wasn't being dishonest just going by how I thought I was supposed to enter it.

bmchenry02

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

I was fine on 1200...some days I didn't even eat that much because I simply wasn't hungry... just ate at least the 1,000 required by MFP not to get yelled at.
It's amazing what you get used to (which is why I said I'm sure I'll get used to it)!
I eventually made it up somewhere along the way...
BTW - for my height, age, and weight, many online calorie calculators suggested I eat less than 1200 when I was losing weight...
They even have sites that give you meal plans for 1,000 calorie days.
So it's not unheard of
only MFP said I had to eat at least 1200.
So again it is possible although not ideal...

Besides I I don't even mind not eating that much... Food isn't that important to me.
I just want to go back to way it used to be when I would not be hungry.

And again I DO EXERCISE... what you're not understanding is it doesn't make a difference as far as calorie intake goes because I don't trust exercise calories so I will not eat them back...

Since I'm little I don't burn that many calories when I exercise... so for me... if I exercise and burn let's say 150 calories... cutting that in half I only get 75 calories extra... seriously not that much of a difference.

I've been in maintenance for 6 weeks now. I find if I hit my protein and snack between each meal and before bed I stayed fueled all day. I'm 5'8" at 128-130 with 1880 calories. I DO eat back some of my exercise calories (didn't until I got a Fitbit) and I find my body really needs them most days. However yesterday I had a lot leftover and was fine.

Are you watching your macros? I can't remember if you mentioned that or not. I eat carbs but also lots of protein...at every meal/snack. Some days I feel ravenous and I figure it's just hormones so I let loose a little...meaning I listen to my body! I pre log most of my days in advance so if I'm still legitimately hungry after a snack and it's not meal time yet then I grab a few almonds, or small Apple, more Greek yogurt etc etc...

ETA: as you get more fit your maintenance calories might slightly increase as well.

christineja

Wait, not to hijack, but this: But you aren't sedentary if working out 2 hrs weekly.

That is clearly Lightly Active.

Be honest with yourself. from heybales--I thought exercise level was based on your entire day, not on your exercise. No? I'm sedentary except when I'm exercising, but that's only 1 hr of my day, the rest of which is pretty lazy. But heybales, I should change to 'lightly active' ?

But on the subject, I was hangry on what MFP gave me too so I do a lot of cardio to get extra calories, which I do eat.

DoreenaV1975

bmchenry02 wrote: »

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

I was fine on 1200...some days I didn't even eat that much because I simply wasn't hungry... just ate at least the 1,000 required by MFP not to get yelled at.
It's amazing what you get used to (which is why I said I'm sure I'll get used to it)!
I eventually made it up somewhere along the way...
BTW - for my height, age, and weight, many online calorie calculators suggested I eat less than 1200 when I was losing weight...
They even have sites that give you meal plans for 1,000 calorie days.
So it's not unheard of
only MFP said I had to eat at least 1200.
So again it is possible although not ideal...

Besides I I don't even mind not eating that much... Food isn't that important to me.
I just want to go back to way it used to be when I would not be hungry.

And again I DO EXERCISE... what you're not understanding is it doesn't make a difference as far as calorie intake goes because I don't trust exercise calories so I will not eat them back...

Since I'm little I don't burn that many calories when I exercise... so for me... if I exercise and burn let's say 150 calories... cutting that in half I only get 75 calories extra... seriously not that much of a difference.

I've been in maintenance for 6 weeks now. I find if I hit my protein and snack between each meal and before bed I stayed fueled all day. I'm 5'8" at 128-130 with 1880 calories. I DO eat back some of my exercise calories (didn't until I got a Fitbit) and I find my body really needs them most days. However yesterday I had a lot leftover and was fine.

Are you watching your macros? I can't remember if you mentioned that or not. I eat carbs but also lots of protein...at every meal/snack. Some days I feel ravenous and I figure it's just hormones so I let loose a little...meaning I listen to my body! I pre log most of my days in advance so if I'm still legitimately hungry after a snack and it's not meal time yet then I grab a few almonds, or small Apple, more Greek yogurt etc etc...

ETA: as you get more fit your maintenance calories might slightly increase as well.

@bmchenry02
Yes. Because I met my goal weight my new challenge, to keep myself motivated since I won't see the scale going down, is meeting my macros.
And I also pre-log all my food...
And when I'm not hungry I also don't always eat everything I logged. That's partly why I was so successful in losing weight...
Maintanence is a new challenge...

heybales

christineja wrote: »

Wait, not to hijack, but this: But you aren't sedentary if working out 2 hrs weekly.

That is clearly Lightly Active.

Be honest with yourself. from heybales--I thought exercise level was based on your entire day, not on your exercise. No? I'm sedentary except when I'm exercising, but that's only 1 hr of my day, the rest of which is pretty lazy. But heybales, I should change to 'lightly active' ?

But on the subject, I was hangry on what MFP gave me too so I do a lot of cardio to get extra calories, which I do eat.

That's the problem with the majority of those 5 level TDEE charts - they only talk about exercise - not even increased daily life.

A mailman that gets in 3 x 45 min lifting session would be Lightly Active going by just exercise description.
Obviously not.

And sedentary desk job isn't even the whole story.
If you got that with 45 hrs week including commute, no kids or pets that has you more active in evenings/weekends - then ya, sedentary.

Folks with activity trackers always seem to discover they are more active than they thought just from more movement at home in evenings. Lightly Active usually using MFP levels.
Tack on exercise time - and level just went up again to Moderate using those other TDEE charts.
If a already 3-5 hrs of exercise - then higher yet!

That's why I put link for that spreadsheet above, incorporates MFP's levels for the non-exercise part of your day which is all they talk about.
With exercise burn based on your metabolism for that part of your day.

Both based on weekly average. None of those sites I've seen try to look at each day, except MFP because you log exercise when actually done. They average the weekly activity back out to daily level.

You may have selected too extreme a weight loss goal too.

And be aware that you are talking about MFP levels - which have NO exercise included, just daily life, until you do the exercise as you commented.

The above was talking about the weekly average TDEE charts - which is concept of including planned exercise and then averaging back out to a single daily eating goal.

Your MFP way is motivating to do more so you can eat more - still have the same deficit daily.
The TDEE way is motivating to do your planned workout - or you won't really be getting deficit that day.

heybales

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

heybales wrote: »

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

Just for fun I calculated my TDEE w/ the following stats:
Female
39
5'1"
107lbs
Sedentary (because I have an office job)
Workouts per week: 4 x 30mins

Guess what it told me? 1350 are my maintenance calories.
TDEE gives me LESS than MFP! MFP doesn't even include exercise and it still says I can eat more! WTH?!

But you aren't sedentary if working out 2 hrs weekly.

That is clearly Lightly Active.

Be honest with yourself.

And that site has been found by many that know their TDEE's based on weight loss amounts - to be underestimated, by decent amount sometimes.

Might try this for better estimate, which includes questions about daily life, and what the workouts actually are.
2 hrs walking doesn't match 2 hrs running and 2 hrs lifting.

Just TDEE please, better than 5 level TDEE charts.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing

@heybales ...
I did sedentary because of my office job.
Thinking that my exercise data wouldn't count until I got to the part about exercise; where you enter those stats.
So I wasn't being dishonest just going by how I thought I was supposed to enter it.

Ok, sounded like you skipped that at first, which your post while I was doing mine confirmed you did miss it.

You got kids at home though? Daily life isn't just the 8 hrs at work. There's another 8 in there besides sleep too. 1 may be exercise, is the other 7 bump on a log or active doing stuff?

cwolfman13

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

Basically what my title says....
I'm at maintenance, new to it...just started a few days ago, and now that I can eat more I'm always hungry!
The sad thing is my maintenance calories aren't much more than my deficit calories since I'm only 5'1" 107ish pounds.
(deficit = 1200 maintenance= 1370 per MFP)

Anyway...anyone else experiencing this?
If you aren't now but have before, how long did it take for it to go away?

I'm still staying w/in my calories/slightly below so weight gain is not really a concern (I worked way too hard to go back!) but the hunger is driving me crazy! Ugh!

TIA for your responses!

it's hormones...your hunger ques are derived from hormonal responses...when you diet, your hormones actually regulate your appetite down...this is why anorexics can easily and correctly state that they're only eating 500 calories but aren't hungry...they're probably not.

when you start upping your calorie intake again, these same hormones adjust your appetite up.

it's a primitive feast or famine hormonal response.

DoreenaV1975

@christineja oops I think I should have actually quoted/tagged you in my above responses. If you wish to add more advice based on my answers than I'd love to hear it. But if not, no worries.

Francl27

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

Francl27 wrote: »

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

arditarose wrote: »

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

Just for fun I calculated my TDEE w/ the following stats:
Female
39
5'1"
107lbs
Sedentary (because I have an office job)
Workouts per week: 4 x 30mins

Guess what it told me? 1350 are my maintenance calories.
TDEE gives me LESS than MFP! MFP doesn't even include exercise and it still says I can eat more! WTH?!

which calculator did you use? And are you really sedentary? I mean you may have an office job but do you walk a lot/have active hobbies?

http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/

Yes, I'm sedentary.
Unless I actively pursue exercise, I'm not really doing a whole lot.
Unless you just count every day life like running errands or doing household chores.
My hobbies are all "sit-down" hobbies.

IIFYM underestimates my TDEE by 250, for what it's worth.

Really? That is worth knowing...
But how do you know that it underestimates it?

Sorry didn't read the other posts...

I log everything, weigh everything, so I know pretty much how much I eat, and I just do the math.. how much of a deficit I have every week and how much I should expect to lose (if at all) that month. I've been maintaining for a year and pretty much been able to predict if I would lose or maintain every month, and by how much. Of course it's not always completely accurate, because I go out 1-2x a week and I have to guess, but it's been pretty consistent with a 2200 TDEE so far (provided I don't get lazy on the workouts, then it's closer to 2100).

But it's relatively easy for me as my lowest weight is always 10 days after my period ends, so I can just compare from month to month. There was a freak month where I skipped a period and was under my goal the whole time and should really have lost 3 pounds and I never did, but I skipped a period, so who knows what really happened, but other than that, it's been pretty much what I expected every time.

DoreenaV1975

cwolfman13 wrote: »

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

Basically what my title says....
I'm at maintenance, new to it...just started a few days ago, and now that I can eat more I'm always hungry!
The sad thing is my maintenance calories aren't much more than my deficit calories since I'm only 5'1" 107ish pounds.
(deficit = 1200 maintenance= 1370 per MFP)

Anyway...anyone else experiencing this?
If you aren't now but have before, how long did it take for it to go away?

I'm still staying w/in my calories/slightly below so weight gain is not really a concern (I worked way too hard to go back!) but the hunger is driving me crazy! Ugh!

TIA for your responses!

it's hormones...your hunger ques are derived from hormonal responses...when you diet, your hormones actually regulate your appetite down...this is why anorexics can easily and correctly state that they're only eating 500 calories but aren't hungry...they're probably not.

when you start upping your calorie intake again, these same hormones adjust your appetite up.

it's a primitive feast or famine hormonal response.

@cwolfman13
Sounds reasonable.
I did experience that when I dropped my calories... that I eventually got used to it and wasn't hungry most of the time even on days where I hardly ate anything... actually forcing myself to eat just to get to at least 1000.

DoreenaV1975

heybales wrote: »

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

heybales wrote: »

DoreenaV1975 wrote: »

Just for fun I calculated my TDEE w/ the following stats:
Female
39
5'1"
107lbs
Sedentary (because I have an office job)
Workouts per week: 4 x 30mins

Guess what it told me? 1350 are my maintenance calories.
TDEE gives me LESS than MFP! MFP doesn't even include exercise and it still says I can eat more! WTH?!

But you aren't sedentary if working out 2 hrs weekly.

That is clearly Lightly Active.

Be honest with yourself.

And that site has been found by many that know their TDEE's based on weight loss amounts - to be underestimated, by decent amount sometimes.

Might try this for better estimate, which includes questions about daily life, and what the workouts actually are.
2 hrs walking doesn't match 2 hrs running and 2 hrs lifting.

Just TDEE please, better than 5 level TDEE charts.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing

@heybales ...
I did sedentary because of my office job.
Thinking that my exercise data wouldn't count until I got to the part about exercise; where you enter those stats.
So I wasn't being dishonest just going by how I thought I was supposed to enter it.

Ok, sounded like you skipped that at first, which your post while I was doing mine confirmed you did miss it.

You got kids at home though? Daily life isn't just the 8 hrs at work. There's another 8 in there besides sleep too. 1 may be exercise, is the other 7 bump on a log or active doing stuff?

@heybales Yes I have kids but they are 13 and 20 so taking care of them doesn't require as much physical activity as it once did. So that's not going to help me unfortunately.
But I think I may invest in a FitBit, as someone suggested earlier, that should give me a more accurate measure of my everyday activity.

heybales

Ya, that age I guess it could actually be more driving around time.

Fitbit can indeed help.

pkw58

I find that the days I am least "emotionally hungry" meaning "hungry" for no real reason are the days 1) I didn't drink enough water early in the day, 2) didn't get enough sleep the night before , 3) didn't meet my activity calorie burn goal and 4) neglected my minimum amount of protein at any one meal. So the basics are the basics for me to feel good about my physical side which keeps the emotional side in balance.

Patttience

You are probably having what DR Amanda Sainsbury Salis calls a famine reaction. That is when yo'uve been dieting for a long time, you start to get really hungry and you can't control it. The best thing for you to do is eat until you are satisfied and after a while you appetite will settle down. But it is vital you eat mainly healthy nutritiuos food and not just any old junk. The dr advises eating as much as you need. But she also advises against eating until you are full.

My experience with her advice is that it works.

DoreenaV1975

Thank you EVERYONE for your advice big or small. Since starting this thread I've been feeling better...not (as) hungry... So although I will still work on figuring out what my true maintenance is I think l'll be okay...
And I'm definitely getting a Fitbit!

What's funny is I kinda started this thread as just an "lol" post because I was just so amazed at the difference in appetite after moving from deficit to maintenance... I never expected so much helpful advice. I appreciate everyone who chimed in on the subject! I received lots of information that I will use!! Thank you, thank you THANK YOU!