CALORIE QUALITY
Replies
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I don't understand why there isn't more emphasis on the QUALITY of the calories people are eating. If you are eating 1,200 calories of JUNK like pizza ice cream and all kinds of processed foods it isn't going to give you the results of eating 1,200 calories of lean protein fruits and veggies and healthy fats. Just kind of agrivates me when I see people complain about not getting the results they want even when they are staying with in their calorie budget but than their food diary is filled with crap food. Thoughts? Do you think quality is just as important if not more so than quantity?
Someone living off pure junk food and not losing weight is more likely a function of them not logging correctly. On a base level, calories are calories. But for your health, there should be more nutritional choices. I mean, if someone looked at my diary, there's a lot of foods that count as 'junk' food. I did make some changes, but I don't cut out stuff I like, just cut down. Thing is, since junk food is usually calorie dense foods with low or no nutritional value, it's a lot less than it's equivalent in veggies or lean meat, so if someone wants to eat more and feel full, they'll need to swap things out. But calorie-wise, it's all the same. Health-wise, it's not, and I don't think anyone would disagree that 120 calories of peas is a lot healthier for you than 120 calories of candy.0 -
Tbh, I eat healthy with a mix of treats in and I still binge sometimes. But that has more to do with me than my eating habits. I've got some mental issues.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
What if Guy A binges because of the ridiculous restriction he's placed on himself?3stepsahead wrote: »Let's take two guys of fairly equal size and fitness level. We put both guys on the same training program and allow each man to eat 3,000 calories per day.
Guy A can only get his calories from lean meats and fish; fresh fruits and vegetables; and sweet potatoes and brown rice.
Guy B can only get his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.
After eight weeks, who do you think is going to look and perform better?
Also, false dichotomy is false.
why would GUY A feel the urge to binge ? I lost 170 lbs mostly eating high quality nutrients foods and never binged
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"For most people in the real world, 80-90% from whole-type foods, the rest from treat-types of food."From all theDeguelloTex wrote: »
from all the responses to the original post.
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3stepsahead wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
What if Guy A binges because of the ridiculous restriction he's placed on himself?3stepsahead wrote: »Let's take two guys of fairly equal size and fitness level. We put both guys on the same training program and allow each man to eat 3,000 calories per day.
Guy A can only get his calories from lean meats and fish; fresh fruits and vegetables; and sweet potatoes and brown rice.
Guy B can only get his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.
After eight weeks, who do you think is going to look and perform better?
Also, false dichotomy is false.
why would GUY A feel the urge to binge ? I lost 170 lbs mostly eating high quality nutrients foods and never binged
You just said "mostly"...so even YOU don't fall into either category A or B and practiced moderation yourself.0 -
3stepsahead wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
What if Guy A binges because of the ridiculous restriction he's placed on himself?3stepsahead wrote: »Let's take two guys of fairly equal size and fitness level. We put both guys on the same training program and allow each man to eat 3,000 calories per day.
Guy A can only get his calories from lean meats and fish; fresh fruits and vegetables; and sweet potatoes and brown rice.
Guy B can only get his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.
After eight weeks, who do you think is going to look and perform better?
Also, false dichotomy is false.
why would GUY A feel the urge to binge ? I lost 170 lbs mostly eating high quality nutrients foods and never binged
Because some people would feel the urge to binge if they never ate any treats. Not everyone of course, but that comment was to point out that a lot of people wouldn't be able to stick to that diet, and therefore most people practice moderation instead of perfect clean eating 100% of the time.0 -
Doesn't matter. It was stupid of me to respond as if the question were an honest one. The real answer is that your hypothetical is unrealistic and no one here recommends anyone gets all his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.3stepsahead wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
What if Guy A binges because of the ridiculous restriction he's placed on himself?3stepsahead wrote: »Let's take two guys of fairly equal size and fitness level. We put both guys on the same training program and allow each man to eat 3,000 calories per day.
Guy A can only get his calories from lean meats and fish; fresh fruits and vegetables; and sweet potatoes and brown rice.
Guy B can only get his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.
After eight weeks, who do you think is going to look and perform better?
Also, false dichotomy is false.
why would GUY A feel the urge to binge ? I lost 170 lbs mostly eating high quality nutrients foods and never binged
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3stepsahead wrote: »Let's take two guys of fairly equal size and fitness level. We put both guys on the same training program and allow each man to eat 3,000 calories per day.
Guy A can only get his calories from lean meats and fish; fresh fruits and vegetables; and sweet potatoes and brown rice.
Guy B can only get his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.
After eight weeks, who do you think is going to look and perform better?
Were the macros the same? If so, I'd think they'd be about equal.
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3stepsahead wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
What if Guy A binges because of the ridiculous restriction he's placed on himself?3stepsahead wrote: »Let's take two guys of fairly equal size and fitness level. We put both guys on the same training program and allow each man to eat 3,000 calories per day.
Guy A can only get his calories from lean meats and fish; fresh fruits and vegetables; and sweet potatoes and brown rice.
Guy B can only get his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.
After eight weeks, who do you think is going to look and perform better?
Also, false dichotomy is false.
why would GUY A feel the urge to binge ? I lost 170 lbs mostly eating high quality nutrients foods and never binged
If you're only eating lean meats, fruit and vegetables, and sweet potatoes and rice, your fat may be pretty low. Many people -- myself included -- struggle with cravings and binges if our fat consumption is low.0 -
Bottom line is people are going to eat what they want to eat. I look at some people's diary and it makes me cringe. For example, 1200 calories and they use 400 on cookies. And it's not just a random day. It's multiple days in a row where you have a person severely resticting their calorie intake and then filling it up with 30% junk. But that's their life and their choice. You could look at anyone's dirt and pick it apart. Then there are other people who go to the other extreme where they are afraid to have a cookie because they think it's going to ruin their perfect healthy diet. Extreme restrictions on your diet aren't sustaining. Eat what you normally eat....just less of it. Then as you go make better choices of the type of foods you are eating.0
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Has anyone actually tried to eat 600 calories of broccoli in one meal?0
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3stepsahead wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
What if Guy A binges because of the ridiculous restriction he's placed on himself?3stepsahead wrote: »Let's take two guys of fairly equal size and fitness level. We put both guys on the same training program and allow each man to eat 3,000 calories per day.
Guy A can only get his calories from lean meats and fish; fresh fruits and vegetables; and sweet potatoes and brown rice.
Guy B can only get his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.
After eight weeks, who do you think is going to look and perform better?
Also, false dichotomy is false.
why would GUY A feel the urge to binge ? I lost 170 lbs mostly eating high quality nutrients foods and never binged
Because binge eating doesn't belong to women, guys do it to. If Guy A has made that his diet and likes it, fine. If he had to cut out his favorite junk food to do it, he might feel like he's depriving himself of it, and when he has a chance to eat it, he'll pig out.
The argument I see most about CICO is someone against it believing we're advocating a diet full of junk food, just keep it under the calorie limit. And while you can certainly do that, I don't think ANYONE here has ever said that. That's just one extreme end, not something most people even try to do. Most of us will say to cut down on junk food and add in more nutritious choices, thereby making this a healthier and more sustainable diet. If someone wants to cut out all the junk food, that's their decision, but for a lot of us, cutting it out completely makes this much harder. And for me, I would've been miserable without being able to eat stuff I like, because if all I can't eat is stuff I don't like, what's the point?0 -
mattyc772014 wrote: »Has anyone actually tried to eat 600 calories of broccoli in one meal?
I hate vegetables - hahaha...
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I don't understand why there isn't more emphasis on the QUALITY of the calories people are eating. If you are eating 1,200 calories of JUNK like pizza ice cream and all kinds of processed foods it isn't going to give you the results of eating 1,200 calories of lean protein fruits and veggies and healthy fats. Just kind of agrivates me when I see people complain about not getting the results they want even when they are staying with in their calorie budget but than their food diary is filled with crap food. Thoughts? Do you think quality is just as important if not more so than quantity?
You are deluded ... or at least grossly misinformed.
In terms of weight loss, it doesn't matter.
How do I know? Those abs in my profile were made on Taco Bell, Cherry Coke, Frozen Pizzas, Hot Pockets, and Pop Tarts, and Wine.
I am now eating a metric crap-ton of Tomatoes, Onions, Peppers,Squash, Salads, Okra, Green Beans, Pumpkins, Apples Pears (it's garden season, and that's what's producing in the yard at the moment) ... and lean meats/eggs/protein... and the abs have been covered by an inch thick layer of adipose tissue because I am consuming ... ... <wait for it> ... ... too many (very high quality)calories.
1200 calories is 1200 calories.
Correct your ignorance on the facts, and you will do fine.
Ignore them, and you will just end up another neurotic, overweight, depressed couch-potato joining the Fat Acceptance horde because it's "impossible" to lose the weight.
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OP - if you mean food quality say food quality.
Saying quality of a unit of energy is meaningless.0 -
Isn't the ultimate goal to be HEALTHY though? Or am I the only one who thinks like that? I'm all for having the occasional treat but I'm not going to fill up my daily calories with junk. But that's just me.
For most average folks, losing the extra 60 or 80 pounds is the *healthiest* thing they can do, irrespective of what they're eating or how they lose it.0 -
I don't understand why there isn't more emphasis on the QUALITY of the calories people are eating. If you are eating 1,200 calories of JUNK like pizza ice cream and all kinds of processed foods it isn't going to give you the results of eating 1,200 calories of lean protein fruits and veggies and healthy fats. Just kind of agrivates me when I see people complain about not getting the results they want even when they are staying with in their calorie budget but than their food diary is filled with crap food. Thoughts? Do you think quality is just as important if not more so than quantity?
I think you should just worry about what you eat if it "aggravates" you so much.
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I don't understand why there isn't more emphasis on the QUALITY of the calories people are eating.
By whom? I emphasize it -- both in my posts here and (much more importantly) by my choices. I see numerous other posts on MFP emphasizing it. The people on my friends list tend to emphasize it (at least those who talk about it--I don't snoop in diaries and judge others unless they invite it). And of course the blog talks about it (although not always as intelligently as I would like, IMO). And if you go off MFP it's easy to find lots of talk about it, especially if you seek it out.
I hope you are not confusing emphasis on the fact that calories are what matter for weight loss, for a claim that what you eat doesn't matter -- both for health in general and because for many people what you choose to eat makes it easier or hard to stick to a particular number of calories.If you are eating 1,200 calories of JUNK like pizza ice cream and all kinds of processed foods it isn't going to give you the results of eating 1,200 calories of lean protein fruits and veggies and healthy fats.
Well, hmm. First this strikes me as kind of silly, because who in the world chooses between ONLY eating "junk" and only eating nutrient dense foods? What I would recommend is primarily eating nutrient dense foods and using your extra calories for whatever you enjoy and are in the mood for that day. (And you are going to have more extra calories if you don't eat 1200 -- I think most people can eat more, especially if they exercise which is probably more important for health than food choice.) If you are arguing that someone who eats mostly nutrient dense foods plus a little cheese or serving of ice cream is going to get different results than someone who eliminates all less nutrient dense foods (however we define that), I'm going to have to see some evidence, because I don't think that's true at all.
Second, "processed foods" include a huge range of things. I would ask you to tell me why choosing processed foods like plain greek yogurt or smoked salmon or bagged spinach is bad for me. Or for that matter, why an Amy's Light & Lean meal could not be a good choice for someone with limited time or new to cooking from whole foods? Why is an occasional Quest bar on the go (it fits well in my purse) a terrible choice that will preclude you from looking good when all the weight is lost?
I could go on with ice cream and pizza (the pizza I eat has lots of vegetables and olive oil and I certainly would not call it "junk"), but you get the point.
Oh, third, if someone is really obese and finds the idea of changing their diet overwhelming or something that puts them off trying to lose weight, simply eating 1200 of the same foods (which IMO makes almost everyone shift food preference over time since you are going to be hungry eating 1200 calories of low nutrient foods, probably) IS 100% a good thing, and WILL give you, at least in the short term, really similar or the same results as eating anything else. (Exercise is actually going to make more of a difference to how you look.) And if someone is obese just losing weight, period, is one of the best things they can do for their health.Just kind of agrivates me when I see people complain about not getting the results they want even when they are staying with in their calorie budget but than their food diary is filled with crap food. Thoughts? Do you think quality is just as important if not more so than quantity?
Who are these people? I have not run into them very often, and when I have -- when someone posts a thread about not getting results or being hungry and has a diary filled with low nutrient foods -- I have seen suggestions made that they improve the diet some (even by people who will say and firmly believe -- like me -- that CICO is what matters for weight loss).
I'm thinking that if you have issues with specific people you should take it up with them and not just rant on the boards.0 -
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I don't understand why there isn't more emphasis on the QUALITY of the calories people are eating. If you are eating 1,200 calories of JUNK like pizza ice cream and all kinds of processed foods it isn't going to give you the results of eating 1,200 calories of lean protein fruits and veggies and healthy fats. Just kind of agrivates me when I see people complain about not getting the results they want even when they are staying with in their calorie budget but than their food diary is filled with crap food. Thoughts? Do you think quality is just as important if not more so than quantity?
Yeah, no. Most of the time I'm busy at work and running around doing a million other things, so I eat plenty of "processed" *kitten* that comes in containers, wrapping, bottles, etc, and I'm still losing weight.
Hell, I had a slice of pizza yesterday. Down nearly half a lb today, still.
P.S. I ace my labwork/physicals every time. Thanks.0 -
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Bottom line is people are going to eat what they want to eat. I look at some people's diary and it makes me cringe. For example, 1200 calories and they use 400 on cookies. And it's not just a random day. It's multiple days in a row where you have a person severely resticting their calorie intake and then filling it up with 30% junk. But that's their life and their choice. You could look at anyone's dirt and pick it apart. Then there are other people who go to the other extreme where they are afraid to have a cookie because they think it's going to ruin their perfect healthy diet. Extreme restrictions on your diet aren't sustaining. Eat what you normally eat....just less of it. Then as you go make better choices of the type of foods you are eating.
If I've met my macros and have 400 calories left? You bet your *kitten* there will be cookies.0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »Isn't the ultimate goal to be HEALTHY though? Or am I the only one who thinks like that? I'm all for having the occasional treat but I'm not going to fill up my daily calories with junk. But that's just me.
Good for you.
No one has ever, in seriousness, ever legitimately suggested to anyone that they should eat all "junk" food all the time.
And now I wait for the responses of "lots of posters tell people all the time that they can eat whatever food they want!"
*sits next to you and waits*
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The nutritional value of the calorie really is the key. 1200 calories of crap won't keep you as satisfied or provide the energy that1200 calories of healthy food will. Also, since there will be sugar crashes and low energy with the 1200 calories of crap, it will be much harder to stay at just 1200 calories.0
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3stepsahead wrote: »Let's take two guys of fairly equal size and fitness level. We put both guys on the same training program and allow each man to eat 3,000 calories per day.
Guy A can only get his calories from lean meats and fish; fresh fruits and vegetables; and sweet potatoes and brown rice.
Guy B can only get his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.
After eight weeks, who do you think is going to look and perform better?
Perform how?
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I think CI<CO is the main driver behind weight loss, which will lead to improved health, but I also believe that food quality and type can affect weight loss, to a lesser degree than CI<CO, and that food quality and types can make a huge impact on someone's overall health (especially if there are any health issues to correct).
I have three boys. Their CI>CO because they are growing. The quality and types of food they eat affects how they grow (gain weight) and their overall health (which will hopefully help prevent future health problems). Their mother and father are slightly overweight. The quality and types of foods we eat affects how we lose weight (slim down) and our overall health (and improves existing health issues).
Food quality and quantity are both very important in my opinion.0 -
nichalsont wrote: »The nutritional value of the calorie really is the key. 1200 calories of crap won't keep you as satisfied or provide the energy that1200 calories of healthy food will. Also, since there will be sugar crashes and low energy with the 1200 calories of crap, it will be much harder to stay at just 1200 calories.
A calorie is literally a unit to measure energy. To say that 1,200 calories of certain foods will provide less energy than 1,200 calories of another food is nonsense.0 -
You caboose weight even if you eat nothing but pizza and ice cream. You could lose weight eating nothing but cake frosting.
You just can't eat a lot of it. There is no way eating pizza and ice cream will stop you from losing weight if you eat little enough of them to keep your calories low.
It wouldn't make you very healthy, but you'd lose weight.
Obviously, if you want to be healthy, you're going to try to eat a wide variety of healthy foods. But some people don't care about that. All they want to do is lose weight - and that's okay. It's not some great crime against humanity to eat junk food or to not be focused on your health at some point in your life. Haven't most people been there? Good people, decent, honest kind people can eat a lot of cake.
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3stepsahead wrote: »Let's take two guys of fairly equal size and fitness level. We put both guys on the same training program and allow each man to eat 3,000 calories per day.
Guy A can only get his calories from lean meats and fish; fresh fruits and vegetables; and sweet potatoes and brown rice.
Guy B can only get his calories from candy, ice cream and fast food.
After eight weeks, who do you think is going to look and perform better?
Perform how?
well in that case, I say B but only if he has left over ice cream. because then I will be happy too0
This discussion has been closed.
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