No one eats carbs alone
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This is a really good point. So many people seem to think that all foods have single macro. It is good to remember that foods have different macros, vitamins, minerals, etc.
I hope this will clear up some confusion.
Yep. It's such a pet peeve of mine that people call "junk food" that is carbs/fat and sometimes protein (like ice cream) "carbs," as if that were the issue somehow, and not calories, or as if people were eating it just for the carbs. I've posted my cookie recipe that gets not that many calories (less than an apple) from sugar, but has way more calories than an apple, of course, because of all the butter. Also flour, but the number one contributor to the calories is butter.
For me, no high calorie/low nutrient foods I like are "carbs" -- all are a mix. The only "just carbs" I like are all foods (like fruits, veggies, potatoes and sweet potatoes) that would ordinarily be considered pretty healthy, so I always think the talk about "oh, no! carbs are so bad!" is weird.0 -
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thorsmom01 wrote: »If someone has a medical condition, then by all means limit carbs.
But for everyone else , carbs aren't anything to be afraid of. Its a macro and isn't evil !
Even for those with a medical condition, carbs aren't evil - just a detriment to their health (or medical condition).
And even there, it is just a matter of proportion. I eat a moderate carb diet in order to manage my diabetes. I average around 150 grams per day which is 35% of my total calories. The majority of it is whole grains, veggies, fruit, and dairy. I don't drink fruit juices because I would rather eat my calories. I do have beer, cake, cookies, pizza, candy, etc. where I can fit them in.
If eating carbs caused weight gain, would this happen to someone who makes up 1/3 of their diet in carbs ?
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I think that the experience of people who drop significant amounts of weight eating carbs prove that fat oxidizes just fine with carbohydrate consumption happening.
The interesting argument regarding high fat oxidation rates observed in low carb dieter that it happens in relation to circulating fat in the bloodstream anyway, that is from excess dietary fat being consumed. It doesn't equate to a higher percentage of body fat being burned.
Reasonably designed longer term studies have proven that any diet which restricts calories over time will result in just about equal amounts of weight loss, no matter which way you partition out the macros.0 -
Soda? Jube jubes? Sugar in coffee? Just putting that out there...
I agree that one macro does not cause weight gain, but I believe carbs can nudge one along the path to gaining more than the other macros, especially if you have a health issue like IR, heart disease, PCOS, etc.
For the perfectly healthy person, carbs often are not an issue, calorie counting is.
I had heart disease, I don't anymore, eating over 250 grams of carbs.0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »If someone has a medical condition, then by all means limit carbs.
But for everyone else , carbs aren't anything to be afraid of. Its a macro and isn't evil !
Even for those with a medical condition, carbs aren't evil - just a detriment to their health (or medical condition).
And even there, it is just a matter of proportion. I eat a moderate carb diet in order to manage my diabetes. I average around 150 grams per day which is 35% of my total calories. The majority of it is whole grains, veggies, fruit, and dairy. I don't drink fruit juices because I would rather eat my calories. I do have beer, cake, cookies, pizza, candy, etc. where I can fit them in.
If eating carbs caused weight gain, would this happen to someone who makes up 1/3 of their diet in carbs ?
Indeed, people lose weight quite well on 80-10-10 vegan and raw diets too. I don't recommend them as I think it's problematic to go too low in fat and protein and the restrictiveness would drive me crazy, but it's quite clear that people do well on them.
Some endurance athletes eat 80-10-10 too, simply due to the amount of carbs they consume, and don't gain. Again, not my thing, but the anti-carb-rhetoric gets so tiresome. Like shell said, though, I totally get why someone might find a low carb strategy a good way to lose or maintain weight loss on a personal level. I just don't see the need to pretend like eating carbs is bad for others (or in general) or that 50% carbs is somehow too high for humans or the even more ridiculous things like that people will gain on 1200 calories if they don't cut carbs (which are all things that have been promoted on MFP in recent days). (And I do think vegetables, at least, should be included in the normal recommended amounts even if one does low carb.)0 -
Here's a rather deceptive label for an oat bran muffin.
Compare this to 6 jujubes.
Let's face it. Nobody eats half a muffin. And perhaps some people can't stop at six jujubes. But the calorie load is pretty well the same, the carb load is the same, and you're getting a lot more fat from the muffin.0 -
I think the pro-carb and anti-carb arguments on MPF are a little annoying. It does come down to CICO for sure, no question about it. However, I've seen posts where people say that they can't stop carb cravings and when people suggests trying low carb they get bombarded with the moderation police going nuts on them for every suggesting carbs should be cut in any way! You have a problem with binging on cookies? EAT THE COOKIES (and stay within your calorie goal). Wait, what? That didn't help the OP. Though when the OP has an unhealthy view of carbs and people post to back that up (YEAH, CARBS MAKE PEOPLE FAT!) that also doesn't help the OP. I just take issue with the downright rude way some people are treated on here when they post things about looking for help and low carb being the only way to lose weight. I get it, we're annoyed by it, we see it every darn day...but a MFP newbie who just posted to get some encouragement and information didn't. Let's help the ignorant folk is a way that is kind and fact driven. Not arguing and name calling...which I see...a lot.
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Well.....
To be correct about this...
I am a low carb dieting person for the most part with a watchful eye on CICO
But I do consume pure carbs at times
Before long bike rides I consume GU gel packs or Cliff packets, or Accelerade, which the gel packs are all carbs.
And it may sound contradictory as a LC person, but those carbs are great high octane fuel for long distance rides.
So yes, sometimes a pure carb shot of calories is exactly needed. A 100 calorie shot to start, another one 10 miles in, a second 20 miles in to take me home.
It is just food. Get the food you need to match your activity.
There is no evil food. There are those that may not pick the best fuel source for an activity but even then it is still a calorie your body can burn.
Arguing over food types is a bizarre internet thing.
It would be so nice to have the "block user" feature on this forum like so many others have.0 -
Pro Carb/Anti Carb posts can be about the same as Pro Religion/Anti Religion posts which are banned.
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I think the pro-carb and anti-carb arguments on MPF are a little annoying. It does come down to CICO for sure, no question about it. However, I've seen posts where people say that they can't stop carb cravings and when people suggests trying low carb they get bombarded with the moderation police going nuts on them for every suggesting carbs should be cut in any way! You have a problem with binging on cookies? EAT THE COOKIES (and stay within your calorie goal). Wait, what? That didn't help the OP. Though when the OP has an unhealthy view of carbs and people post to back that up (YEAH, CARBS MAKE PEOPLE FAT!) that also doesn't help the OP. I just take issue with the downright rude way some people are treated on here when they post things about looking for help and low carb being the only way to lose weight. I get it, we're annoyed by it, we see it every darn day...but a MFP newbie who just posted to get some encouragement and information didn't. Let's help the ignorant folk is a way that is kind and fact driven. Not arguing and name calling...which I see...a lot.
The moderation police? Well that's not offensive or anything. And you advocate for a forum without name calling. Irony, party of you.
Anyhoo....maybe it did help the OP. Some believe that if they crave a food the only recourse is elimination and that they are addicted to it. It might be helpful to those in that situation to hear that moderation with practice and attention might be successful. It was helpful to me.
I was a lurker who was helped by an I'm-addicted-to-carbs thread when the "moderation police" showed up to let OP know she didn't have to eliminate anything. I had an ED that included a lot of binge eating, which was hard not to fall back into when I first started thinking I had to eat a certain way. Since learning that everything is okay in moderation? No bingeing.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Pro Carb/Anti Carb posts can be about the same as Pro Religion/Anti Religion posts which are banned.
This is a weight loss/health/fitness forum Gale. If the posts bother you so much you are welcome to ignore them, but to suggest they be banned is asinine.
When those opinions become insulting it is a clear violation of the terms of use of the forums.
They often get that way.
Some people do become zealots about their own personal favorites. Too bad though. It is much better to cheer each other on to success than argue over my diet is better than yours.
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Lol @shell1005 "secret double agent" that's how I feel sometimes. I basically agree with your first post, low carb works for me to stay at a deficit which helps me lose weight and stabilize my blood glucose levels to stay out of pre diabetic ranges. I've lost weight both restricting carbs and not restricting carbs. It's not necessary for weight loss, caloric deficit is necessary for weight loss. Low carb is just one way of getting there.
I don't get into all the science stuff an studies on supposed benefits of low carb over anything else. I do feel sometimes those discussions though informative to some might not be needed for some new members that just need to understand the basics of it. But everyone takes what they need from these forums and leaves the rest anyway so as long as you don't expect each post to be all kittens and rainbows there's enough info out there to help everyone.0 -
KittensMaster wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Pro Carb/Anti Carb posts can be about the same as Pro Religion/Anti Religion posts which are banned.
This is a weight loss/health/fitness forum Gale. If the posts bother you so much you are welcome to ignore them, but to suggest they be banned is asinine.
When those opinions become insulting it is a clear violation of the terms of use of the forums.
They often get that way.
Some people do become zealots about their own personal favorites. Too bad though. It is much better to cheer each other on to success than argue over my diet is better than yours.
Yes! This! I love this.I think the pro-carb and anti-carb arguments on MPF are a little annoying. It does come down to CICO for sure, no question about it. However, I've seen posts where people say that they can't stop carb cravings and when people suggests trying low carb they get bombarded with the moderation police going nuts on them for every suggesting carbs should be cut in any way! You have a problem with binging on cookies? EAT THE COOKIES (and stay within your calorie goal). Wait, what? That didn't help the OP. Though when the OP has an unhealthy view of carbs and people post to back that up (YEAH, CARBS MAKE PEOPLE FAT!) that also doesn't help the OP. I just take issue with the downright rude way some people are treated on here when they post things about looking for help and low carb being the only way to lose weight. I get it, we're annoyed by it, we see it every darn day...but a MFP newbie who just posted to get some encouragement and information didn't. Let's help the ignorant folk is a way that is kind and fact driven. Not arguing and name calling...which I see...a lot.
The moderation police? Well that's not offensive or anything. And you advocate for a forum without name calling. Irony, party of you.
Anyhoo....maybe it did help the OP. Some believe that if they crave a food the only recourse is elimination and that they are addicted to it. It might be helpful to those in that situation to hear that moderation with practice and attention might be successful. It was helpful to me.
I was a lurker who was helped by an I'm-addicted-to-carbs thread when the "moderation police" showed up to let OP know she didn't have to eliminate anything. I had an ED that included a lot of binge eating, which was hard not to fall back into when I first started thinking I had to eat a certain way. Since learning that everything is okay in moderation? No bingeing.
I'm so happy that these forums helped you!
I think that my "moderation police" comment was misunderstood. Moderation is GREAT. I think some people do it well and I think the people who think carbs are evil should know about the people who benefit from moderation as they may as well. I, however, have an issue with the people who are mean about it and discourage the OP. I think the discussion boards are great for discussing different options for other people, answering questions, and spreading knowledge. But moderation for some people is just not a reality in their current situation and I don't see a lot of kindness or help for those people, just a lot of people pushing their way of eating or trying to tell other people their way is not right.
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I have been sucked into some arguments myself, usually when I am told i am wrong when I know what I am doing is right for me. (It's not the majority at all, just a few people.)
This thread seems right on the money though. Carbs are rarely eaten alone. Carbs are not evil. There is no need to restrict carbs to lose weight but restricting carbs can improve the health of people with some medical conditions, possibly assist in those people's weight loss, or possibly help prevent some health conditions linked to a higher carb intake.... All true.
Also true that moderation for weight loss works for many people if not most.
Live and let live, right? There is no wrong here. Some ways of eating suit some people better than others.
For me, Swedish berries, jube jubes and soda were my problem foods and I gained weight when those were added in, even when I reduced calories elsewhere.... I obviously didn't reduce enough because I gained weight. I was not one for baked goods, noodles, or rice, beyond some cinnamon buns around the holidays. I think for me, sugar was the problem... I never could just eat 6 jube jubes. LCHF is the way to go for me.0 -
KittensMaster wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Pro Carb/Anti Carb posts can be about the same as Pro Religion/Anti Religion posts which are banned.
This is a weight loss/health/fitness forum Gale. If the posts bother you so much you are welcome to ignore them, but to suggest they be banned is asinine.
When those opinions become insulting it is a clear violation of the terms of use of the forums.
They often get that way.
Some people do become zealots about their own personal favorites. Too bad though. It is much better to cheer each other on to success than argue over my diet is better than yours.
I for one see more value in learning and knowledge, than giving blind support for any particular way of eating. Whether it is moderation, IIFYM, low-carb, or keto if the person can't describe why it is they have chosen to do what they do, they may not understand the basics of CICO, and may believe their choice is "better" because of an unsubstantiated reason. How are they expected to gain knowledge and understanding if all they receive is a pat on the back, you're doing great, keep doing what you are doing even if you don't know why you are doing it and how it is affecting your goals. I have yet to see an OP get blasted by either the low-carb or moderation advocates when they properly explain why they are looking into eating a particular way. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to question why an approach, any approach, is being asked about, to clarify that the OP hasn't bought into something being a solution that provides added benefit, or to clarify that there is a medical reason (insulin issues, Celiac's, etc) so that the advice being given is more appropriate. When most people do not need to avoid particular foods, and with the volume of newbs who ask vague questions about a particular diet or claiming to have food addiction problems (among other things), it is reasonable to ensure that the asker understands that, generally speaking, they can successfully reach their goals while not overcomplicating matters. Eating a varied, nutrient dense diet, that contains foods you enjoy, and is within your calorie and macro targets works for all people at a fundamental physical level (barring medical issues). On a mental level, I feel that lots of worries can be resolved through helping the person understand how food/calories/macros actuall work.0
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