Low carb diets - there is no way they can limit of 25 to 50 carbs a day?

amusedmonkey

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

"It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what @lemurcat12 was talking about. Carbs are not evil. They don't cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being low carb, or maybe it all had to do with being low carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating low carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Keto can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).

Eating a moderate carb diet I got rid of high blood pressure, high triglycerides, high LDL, low HDL, pre-diabetes, and my IBS is back to being dormant. It would be silly of me to suggest any of these changes are due to eating 150-200 grams of carbs and that everyone should eat that many to get the health benefits.

I've read about people going low fat high carb vegan getting the exact same results as you (and me), which makes me wonder if it has to do with people adopting a diet being more health-conscious and making more effort to get adequate nutrition than the kind of diet they're following."
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It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what LC'ers have been talking about. Low carb eating is not evil. Not eating carbs does not cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being moderate carb, or maybe it all had to do with being moderate carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating moderate carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Moderate carb can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).

Again, I don't think you are sounding particularly ugly toward low carb but at the same time, you really didn't want his diet change to get credit for his overall health improvement.

Just as you attributed your diet change to your improved health and included that it doesn't mean everyone would have the same result. The other poster had pretty much said the same thing.

That's the thing, I did not attribute my improved health to my diet change nor to my carb ratio. To me, a person who does well on 20 carbs is exactly the same as a person who does well on 400 - someone who has found the right diet for them.

You may not be familiar with my posts, but I often attempt to spark that critical thinking fuse whenever any health claims are attributed to any diet, including my own. I often recognize a person's choice as valid and "not evil", which no enjoyable diet chosen out of free will really is. What's evil is when someone follows a certain diet they don't enjoy because they believe it brings them certain benefits, which may or may not be the case.

Here is an oversimplified example: a person has IBS and is triggered by apples (a common trigger). Goes low carb, stops eating apples, gets better. If the person enjoys low carb then that's that, but if they don't enjoy it and are forcing themselves into it for the sake of health benefits, then it's entirely unnecessary and if they dig just a little bit deeper and remove apples from their diet without having to give up other things they love they would be much happier.

The same exact thing applies to a person who is triggered by red meat (another common trigger) and goes vegan.

The same goes on for cutting sugar, artificial sweetener, gluten, dairy, or any kind of food/food group/substance for benefits that may be achieved in less extreme ways by just a little bit more of investigation.

You will often notice I'm not even against fad diets, cleanses, and things that I will never understand like meal replacement shakes, VLCD, or diet pills. If the person is fully aware that cleanses don't cleanse, fad diets are mostly water weight and meal replacements are known to make your wallet thinner for no good reason...etc then poking my nose further in would be rude. Adults and their choices - none of my business.

To be honest, it's not you or any other person here who is passionate about low carb I'm trying to target with my comments. You all seem to be doing really well and feeling good on your respective diets. The people I'm trying to reach are the "previous me's". People who, like I did, are trying to force themselves into something that makes them miserable when there might be another easily tolerated way to the same results. If there isn't an easier alternative and if some kind of restricted diet really is needed, at least they'll know they're only putting themselves through something out of necessity and from the lack of a better alternative.

yarwell

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

I can never get the quoting right on mobile when I need to remove a bunch of it! Ugh!

you are not alone, the thing just loves to grab that closing bracket as part of the text you are trying to delete.

Sunny_Bunny_

amusedmonkey wrote: »

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

"It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what @lemurcat12 was talking about. Carbs are not evil. They don't cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being low carb, or maybe it all had to do with being low carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating low carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Keto can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).

Eating a moderate carb diet I got rid of high blood pressure, high triglycerides, high LDL, low HDL, pre-diabetes, and my IBS is back to being dormant. It would be silly of me to suggest any of these changes are due to eating 150-200 grams of carbs and that everyone should eat that many to get the health benefits.

I've read about people going low fat high carb vegan getting the exact same results as you (and me), which makes me wonder if it has to do with people adopting a diet being more health-conscious and making more effort to get adequate nutrition than the kind of diet they're following."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what LC'ers have been talking about. Low carb eating is not evil. Not eating carbs does not cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being moderate carb, or maybe it all had to do with being moderate carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating moderate carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Moderate carb can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).

Again, I don't think you are sounding particularly ugly toward low carb but at the same time, you really didn't want his diet change to get credit for his overall health improvement.

Just as you attributed your diet change to your improved health and included that it doesn't mean everyone would have the same result. The other poster had pretty much said the same thing.

That's the thing, I did not attribute my improved health to my diet change nor to my carb ratio. To me, a person who does well on 20 carbs is exactly the same as a person who does well on 400 - someone who has found the right diet for them.

You may not be familiar with my posts, but I often attempt to spark that critical thinking fuse whenever any health claims are attributed to any diet, including my own. I often recognize a person's choice as valid and "not evil", which no enjoyable diet chosen out of free will really is. What's evil is when someone follows a certain diet they don't enjoy because they believe it brings them certain benefits, which may or may not be the case.

Here is an oversimplified example: a person has IBS and is triggered by apples (a common trigger). Goes low carb, stops eating apples, gets better. If the person enjoys low carb then that's that, but if they don't enjoy it and are forcing themselves into it for the sake of health benefits, then it's entirely unnecessary and if they dig just a little bit deeper and remove apples from their diet without having to give up other things they love they would be much happier.

The same exact thing applies to a person who is triggered by red meat (another common trigger) and goes vegan.

The same goes on for cutting sugar, artificial sweetener, gluten, dairy, or any kind of food/food group/substance for benefits that may be achieved in less extreme ways by just a little bit more of investigation.

You will often notice I'm not even against fad diets, cleanses, and things that I will never understand like meal replacement shakes, VLCD, or diet pills. If the person is fully aware that cleanses don't cleanse, fad diets are mostly water weight and meal replacements are known to make your wallet thinner for no good reason...etc then poking my nose further in would be rude. Adults and their choices - none of my business.

To be honest, it's not you or any other person here who is passionate about low carb I'm trying to target with my comments. You all seem to be doing really well and feeling good on your respective diets. The people I'm trying to reach are the "previous me's". People who, like I did, are trying to force themselves into something that makes them miserable when there might be another easily tolerated way to the same results. If there isn't an easier alternative and if some kind of restricted diet really is needed, at least they'll know they're only putting themselves through something out of necessity and from the lack of a better alternative.

I think you said that very well and I fully understand what you are sharing. I agree with everything you said there. I very much feel the same way. The only exception at all I have is that sometimes things start out difficult and a person can feel miserable because making changes for health and fitness is hard no matter what the changes are you want to make. But, they should begin to become easier as time goes on and with proper commitment applied along the way.
I wouldn't say I was miserable when I got started, especially since I already did lots of research and prevented electrolyte loss and therefore "Keto flu" during my adaptation, but it was quite difficult for me to give up my candy habit. That's what I found to be my biggest problem pre-diet change. So I missed my sugar binge for a few weeks. Lol
Some people are more challenged during change than others and some are simply over dramatic as well. Lol I listen to my sister go on and on about her recent type 2 diagnosis and her health complaints and how she is in a constant battle between high and low blood sugar. Then I suggest that she change just 1 thing and cut out her soda drinking or switch to diet as 1 simple change that could have a huge impact on her blood sugar and you would think I suggested she jump off the nearest bridge! I even suggested mixing regular and diet little by little to get used to the difference in taste since that was her issue and she dismissed that as stupid. Made sense to me... Anyway, some people just don't want to change and if they are forced to or break down and decide to try, they have to be dramatic because they simply feel like it's the worst possible life experience they could be going through at that moment. These people need lots of reinforcement and support during their adaptation but many still don't succeed because the true commitment just isn't there.
I have a few MFP friends that post daily. 1 day, they are crazy proud of the way they stuck to their plan and the next they have a cheat day or meal and the next it's someone else's fault cuz they made brownies or took them to an all you can eat buffet... In the end, it's all about commitment. Support is crucial for that.

You seem like you are very supportive. I appreciate that when talking to people on here. Being open minded is very helpful too. You seem to also be that way.

I know what you mean when you see people say things like they aren't losing weight so they need to stop eating sugar, for example. It's not sugar that's the problem for keeping weight on them. But it could be that they have trouble with moderation when it comes to sugar... So it could be their problem because of that. I see some people telling them that they just need to control the amount and such, but as a former sugar binger, that never worked for me. I really did need to cut it out entirely to get myself under control. So sometimes all the people trying to talk sense into this person that has labeled sugar as their problem, they truly could be preventing that person from finally making the change they need to find success.
Sometimes I will see people say, unless your doctor told you to cut out that food or you are allergic or diabetic then you don't need to... But another thing that should be on that list is "if you find that you are unable to have that food in moderation because you have problems binging on it". This is something that "everything in moderation" dieters don't understand. Obviously, because they have found success in moderation. So very many people struggle endlessly with moderation. So that method isn't for everyone. You would think if they can't succeed with that there would be no way they would succeed with removing it entirely, but sometimes that level of commitment is exactly what they need, and in my case, as well as many others I know, the cravings and desire for the problem foods went away or were dramatically diminished. That's a great feeling when you previously felt that it was so difficult to deal with.