Fat Free vs Farm Fresh
Replies
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
Not fear mongering over a coworker's choice of lunch?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
Not fear mongering over a coworker's choice of lunch?
I would think I could do that without familiarizing myself with any ingredients by simply minding my own business.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
Not fear mongering over a coworker's choice of lunch?
I would think I could do that without familiarizing myself with any ingredients by simply minding my own business.
I didn't feel like telling the OP to do that since I feared it could get me a warning...0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
It helps to familiarize yourself with what things are instead of just assuming their bad- it helps to have an educated opinion about wtf you are talking about- vs just assuming b/c you can't pronounce it therefor it's bad.
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Here's an easily pronounceable ingredient that wreaks havoc on bacteria and is death to gardens; vinegar. I've seen so many home-made "miracle" pest sprays using vinegar. Just because it is familiar and pronounceable does not make it safer.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
Not fear mongering over a coworker's choice of lunch?
I would think I could do that without familiarizing myself with any ingredients by simply minding my own business.
I didn't feel like telling the OP to do that since I feared it could get me a warning...
I am not suggesting the OP or anyone else do anything. I was just curious how familiarizing myself with ingredients would help me, when I could just eat something I'm already familiar with.0 -
Here's an easily pronounceable ingredient that wreaks havoc on bacteria and is death to gardens; vinegar. I've seen so many home-made "miracle" pest sprays using vinegar. Just because it is familiar and pronounceable does not make it safer.
Just like the home-made flea and tick sprays for pets you see all over the internet. Many of the familiar ingredients are toxic if ingested (and who has a cat or dog that does not lick their fur?)
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
It helps to familiarize yourself with what things are instead of just assuming their bad- it helps to have an educated opinion about wtf you are talking about- vs just assuming b/c you can't pronounce it therefor it's bad.
Or, I could just eat something else and not talk about it. But perhaps earlnabby was talking only about those that do say it's unhealthy and not everyone.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
It helps to familiarize yourself with what things are instead of just assuming their bad- it helps to have an educated opinion about wtf you are talking about- vs just assuming b/c you can't pronounce it therefor it's bad.
Or, I could just eat something else and not talk about it. But perhaps earlnabby was talking only about those that do say it's unhealthy and not everyone.
Don't put words in my mouth. My statement was very clear.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
It helps to familiarize yourself with what things are instead of just assuming their bad- it helps to have an educated opinion about wtf you are talking about- vs just assuming b/c you can't pronounce it therefor it's bad.
Or, I could just eat something else and not talk about it. But perhaps earlnabby was talking only about those that do say it's unhealthy and not everyone.
Don't put words in my mouth. My statement was very clear.
Geez, sorry. It was not clear to me. Nor is your getting upset at that post.0 -
OP's attempt at giving us a nutrition lesson was a fail. Carry on0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
I am saying that more or less. No one can be educated and knowledgeable on everything. And I am here trying to lose weight so obviously I'm not hurting for food, which makes me wonder what help familiarizing myself with these food additives would be.0 -
It's like people think that to work in a food factory, you have to be Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin and Ivan the Terrible rolled into one.
tell me about it. My husband was a meat packer for 5 years or so, and people assume the absolute worst about people who choose that line of work.
Truthfully- it provided enough money to take care of us financially, and provided health insurance for our family. We live in the rural midwest, and it was the best option for work at the time. He wasnt some sociopath or something.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
I am saying that more or less. No one can be educated and knowledgeable on everything. And I am here trying to lose weight so obviously I'm not hurting for food, which makes me wonder what help familiarizing myself with these food additives would be.
Of course not- but just because you don't currently have that information- doesn't mean you cant' go find it.
IF it's something that's of concern to you- then go look it up. But just basically saying I DON"T KNOW BUT HERE"S MY OPINION- is just ignorant.
You cannot have an opinion on something if you literally have no idea what it is. It's perfectly fine if you don't care to look something up- but don't go and say well it's bad b/c I don't now it is if you never even bothered to CHECK.
If you don't know- and want to have an opinion- here- let me
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google
There you go- easy peasy lemon squeezy. It's THAT easy.0 -
Rejecting things you don't understand is so Dark Ages.0
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If I go by "if I can't pronounce it don't eat it", I wouldn't be able to eat anything!! Have you seen the "chemicals" in the apples, ohh my!!! O.o
And if I went by "if I can pronounce it I can eat it" (total opposite of yours), I would be able to eat anything. I trained as a chemist! I don't honestly think either approach is really a great idea.
I didn't see anything too scary in the OP's photo of the instant noodles. I'm not a huge fan of pre-made food (I like cooking) but everyone has their peeves. My "farm fresh" options are pretty limited (I live in a really big city, and getting to farmer's markets is pretty much impossible due to my work schedule, so I stick with my grocery store) but I also don't go out of my way to buy whatever has been marketed as "healthier options" since I don't eat much in the way of prepared foods. /shrug0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
I am saying that more or less. No one can be educated and knowledgeable on everything. And I am here trying to lose weight so obviously I'm not hurting for food, which makes me wonder what help familiarizing myself with these food additives would be.
Of course not- but just because you don't currently have that information- doesn't mean you cant' go find it.
IF it's something that's of concern to you- then go look it up. But just basically saying I DON"T KNOW BUT HERE"S MY OPINION- is just ignorant.
You cannot have an opinion on something if you literally have no idea what it is. It's perfectly fine if you don't care to look something up- but don't go and say well it's bad b/c I don't now it is if you never even bothered to CHECK.
If you don't know- and want to have an opinion- here- let me
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google
There you go- easy peasy lemon squeezy. It's THAT easy.
I agree with this. Well most of it. I'm not sure one quick google search would satsify me that something was safe. I'd want to look at the data, and while maybe not hard, that is time consuming.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of curiosity, how many who "don't eat what you can't pronounce" pay no attention to the products you put on your body and can be absorbed through the skin? Can you pronounce all of these?:
aqua (water, eau), sodium bis-hydroxyethylglycinate coco-glucosides crosspolymer, sodium cocoyl alaninate, glycerin, disodium cocoyl glutamate, parfum (fragrance), oryza sativa (rice) extract, sodium cocoyl, hydrolyzed soy protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, hydrolyzed jojoba protein, arginine, sodium polyaspartate, mangifera indica (mango) seed oil, origanum vulgare leaf oil, ficus carica (fig) fruit/leaf extract thymus vulgaris (thyme) oil, sodium lauroyl lactylate, xanthan gum, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, lauryl lactyl lactate, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, lactic acid, leuconostoc ferment filtrate, citric acid, ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate.
(This is the ingredients list for Natural Burt's Bees Shampoo)
I guess my point is that it helps to familiarize yourself with ingredients instead of rejecting anything with a "Chemical" sounding name.
Helps with what?
Since earlnabby was responding to OP's previous post about the soup, which she claimed was full of unpronounceable 'dangerous' ingredients, it makes appear either obtuse to respond this way, or arrogant. Either way it would behoove you to be less snarky.0 -
I'm having flashbacks to the Sodium Bicarbonate thread from a few months ago.
Is "farm fresh" the new "clean eating"?0 -
SingRunTing wrote: »I'm having flashbacks to the Sodium Bicarbonate thread from a few months ago.
Is "farm fresh" the new "clean eating"?
Ha! I had the same thought.
Focusing on "farm fresh" in Chicago in January is pretty depressing.0 -
SingRunTing wrote: »I'm having flashbacks to the Sodium Bicarbonate thread from a few months ago.
Is "farm fresh" the new "clean eating"?
False dichotomy is false?0 -
Calling most produce sold in grocery stores "farm fresh" is a really big stretch.0
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SingRunTing wrote: »I'm having flashbacks to the Sodium Bicarbonate thread from a few months ago.
Is "farm fresh" the new "clean eating"?
One of my top 5 all time threads. Sodium Bicarbonate is toxic. Loved it.
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SingRunTing wrote: »I'm having flashbacks to the Sodium Bicarbonate thread from a few months ago.
Is "farm fresh" the new "clean eating"?
False dichotomy is false?
I don't have a problem with people supporting their local farms or wanting to eat fresh. Heck, I have a vegetable garden and love eating from it and think they taste better.
But, OP seems to think that "farm fresh" means either unprocessed/eating clean or only eating foods you can pronounce. That's not what "farm fresh" means and she's stretching it to mean clean eating without saying clean eating. Which is a stupid buzzword anyway.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Calling most produce sold in grocery stores "farm fresh" is a really big stretch.
Yep. I did this local farm fresh challenge a few years back and for 30 days I didn't eat anything that had to travel more than 50 miles to find my kitchen table. Thankfully it was in the summer and I have a lot of local farms right near me, but it was still a lot harder than one would think.
I'm weirdly fascinated by locavorism. I missed the beginning of the 30 day challenge that our green market puts on back when I might have done it (I'm over that now), so I've avoided that (it wouldn't be too hard--a little inconvenient but easily do-able--but for coffee and spices in the summer). I read this book (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/545830.The_100_Mile_Diet) about a Canadian couple that did it which seems hard enough without them deciding to start without adequate preparation. I was all smug about how if I did it I'd do it better, but then I realized I really like restaurants. And as for the rest of the year I just don't have the motivation/commitment to it to deal with having to can everything, etc.0
This discussion has been closed.
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