Fat Free vs Farm Fresh
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@lemurcat12 , I think it patently unfair that those "poor" Canadians conducted their test in Vancouver, at the mouth of the verdant Fraser river valley. A most temperate and favorable climate. I did a deep think about what a 100 mile diet would be here on the prairies and my diet would be decidedly spartan in the winter. Pemmican, bannock, rose hip tea, sauerkraut and pickled beets. Blech.0
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UltimateRBF wrote: »It just occurred to me that OP said she plucked that soup container off her coworkers desk.
So like, did you get permission from your coworker to touch their stuff and take pictures of their food and post it online?
Cuz if I found out that one of my coworkers was touching my stuff at my personal workstation and had posted it online being all self righteous (yes you were being self righteous) "OMG soo unclean how can anyone eat this" I would have words with that person. And not nice words either.
page 3. . . . .people are slipping' up! This sort of info used to get caught on p.1. . . . .ugh0 -
@lemurcat12 , I think it patently unfair that those "poor" Canadians conducted their test in Vancouver, at the mouth of the verdant Fraser river valley. A most temperate and favorable climate. I did a deep think about what a 100 mile diet would be here on the prairies and my diet would be decidedly spartan in the winter. Pemmican, bannock, rose hip tea, sauerkraut and pickled beets. Blech.
They had a surprisingly hard time with things that here wouldn't be that hard (like wheat), and apparently would have done a lot better if they'd just been across the border in Washington (I forget why).
I thought that bit was funny because I used to go to Ontario every summer and crossing into Canada they'd always want to know if I had cigarettes or firearms, whereas crossing into Michigan they'd ask about fruit (and sometimes wine). Apparently they are more concerned about fruit crossing into British Columbia. ;-)
Their biggest problem was they started at a bad time of the year with no prior planning.0 -
Haha! You're so right - I've thought the same. Maybe a lot of turnips and potatoes, if one had a root cellar..?@lemurcat12 , I think it patently unfair that those "poor" Canadians conducted their test in Vancouver, at the mouth of the verdant Fraser river valley. A most temperate and favorable climate. I did a deep think about what a 100 mile diet would be here on the prairies and my diet would be decidedly spartan in the winter. Pemmican, bannock, rose hip tea, sauerkraut and pickled beets. Blech.
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SingRunTing wrote: »SingRunTing wrote: »I'm having flashbacks to the Sodium Bicarbonate thread from a few months ago.
Is "farm fresh" the new "clean eating"?
False dichotomy is false?
I don't have a problem with people supporting their local farms or wanting to eat fresh. Heck, I have a vegetable garden and love eating from it and think they taste better.
But, OP seems to think that "farm fresh" means either unprocessed/eating clean or only eating foods you can pronounce. That's not what "farm fresh" means and she's stretching it to mean clean eating without saying clean eating. Which is a stupid buzzword anyway.
I get that
I guess I'm more referring to the idea a lot of people have that some foods are "good" or "clean" (or farmfresh) and other aren't, and it's a clear cut line with nothing in between, or no varying degrees.
Kind of like the "you have to eat clean or you must be stuffing your face with junk" argument that is so often repeated.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Calling most produce sold in grocery stores "farm fresh" is a really big stretch.
Yep. I did this local farm fresh challenge a few years back and for 30 days I didn't eat anything that had to travel more than 50 miles to find my kitchen table. Thankfully it was in the summer and I have a lot of local farms right near me, but it was still a lot harder than one would think.
I'm weirdly fascinated by locavorism. I missed the beginning of the 30 day challenge that our green market puts on back when I might have done it (I'm over that now), so I've avoided that (it wouldn't be too hard--a little inconvenient but easily do-able--but for coffee and spices in the summer). I read this book (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/545830.The_100_Mile_Diet) about a Canadian couple that did it which seems hard enough without them deciding to start without adequate preparation. I was all smug about how if I did it I'd do it better, but then I realized I really like restaurants. And as for the rest of the year I just don't have the motivation/commitment to it to deal with having to can everything, etc.
I didn't read that book, but I read an article about that book. That's the same thing, right? I try to buy local whenever I can. One, I like supporting local family farms. Two, I like to source my ingredients....know how they were grown and what was put into them. Three....tasty! However I also don't think that it is healthier or unhealthier depending on if you eat from local sources or not.
Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.
The fascination of the locavore thing for me (the idea of a challenge, not buying local when I can, which I do) is probably more that I tend to like constraints for a brief period of time as a way to get creative. That's one reason I like cooking from a CSA box too, and my sister and I have done reading challenges where we pick a country and read books from there for a month or some such. So it seems like an interesting challenge, but it would interfere with normal life too much (like I have to take people out for work).0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Calling most produce sold in grocery stores "farm fresh" is a really big stretch.
Yep. I did this local farm fresh challenge a few years back and for 30 days I didn't eat anything that had to travel more than 50 miles to find my kitchen table. Thankfully it was in the summer and I have a lot of local farms right near me, but it was still a lot harder than one would think.
I'm weirdly fascinated by locavorism. I missed the beginning of the 30 day challenge that our green market puts on back when I might have done it (I'm over that now), so I've avoided that (it wouldn't be too hard--a little inconvenient but easily do-able--but for coffee and spices in the summer). I read this book (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/545830.The_100_Mile_Diet) about a Canadian couple that did it which seems hard enough without them deciding to start without adequate preparation. I was all smug about how if I did it I'd do it better, but then I realized I really like restaurants. And as for the rest of the year I just don't have the motivation/commitment to it to deal with having to can everything, etc.
I didn't read that book, but I read an article about that book. That's the same thing, right? I try to buy local whenever I can. One, I like supporting local family farms. Two, I like to source my ingredients....know how they were grown and what was put into them. Three....tasty! However I also don't think that it is healthier or unhealthier depending on if you eat from local sources or not.
Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.
The fascination of the locavore thing for me (the idea of a challenge, not buying local when I can, which I do) is probably more that I tend to like constraints for a brief period of time as a way to get creative. That's one reason I like cooking from a CSA box too, and my sister and I have done reading challenges where we pick a country and read books from there for a month or some such. So it seems like an interesting challenge, but it would interfere with normal life too much (like I have to take people out for work).
Our city has a great farmer's market three days a week, and the local grocery stores have them in their parking lots a couple of other days as well. So in the summer months, it's fairly easy to find fresh produce. The grocery stores themselves actually have sections where they feature local products. It is a nice feature of our local economy.0 -
Farmers market food can often be worse for the environment in that it's often shipped in small amounts and produced in locations out of season so it requires more fuel, water, heating, fertilizers and pesticides than if the food was grown in bulk in season and shipped in bulk.0
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Farmers market food can often be worse for the environment in that it's often shipped in small amounts and produced in locations out of season so it requires more fuel, water, heating, fertilizers and pesticides than if the food was grown in bulk in season and shipped in bulk.
Depending on where the farmers' markets are, but ours here are all local farmers who grow their produce in the area, in season. We all know what we want and have to wait until the products are ready and we can get them! It seems to take forever for the fingerling potatoes to come around each summer. Ours are mostly local Hmong growers.0 -
Even in season, some regions grow thinks more efficiently. Idaho has a pretty good climate for growing potatoes - one grown there and railroad freighted across the country will probably still take less energy than one grown and trucked locally because of the reduced need for everything going into it. Freakonomics looked into it once - they had figures that estimated only 15 or less of a crop's total fuel/energy input is shipping.Farmers market food can often be worse for the environment in that it's often shipped in small amounts and produced in locations out of season so it requires more fuel, water, heating, fertilizers and pesticides than if the food was grown in bulk in season and shipped in bulk.
Depending on where the farmers' markets are, but ours here are all local farmers who grow their produce in the area, in season. We all know what we want and have to wait until the products are ready and we can get them! It seems to take forever for the fingerling potatoes to come around each summer. Ours are mostly local Hmong growers.
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Farmers market food can often be worse for the environment in that it's often shipped in small amounts and produced in locations out of season so it requires more fuel, water, heating, fertilizers and pesticides than if the food was grown in bulk in season and shipped in bulk.
Depending on where the farmers' markets are, but ours here are all local farmers who grow their produce in the area, in season. We all know what we want and have to wait until the products are ready and we can get them! It seems to take forever for the fingerling potatoes to come around each summer. Ours are mostly local Hmong growers.
Even if the food is in season, it's small quantities. This can mean 5 farmers road trips to the market for 5 basketfuls instead of one truckload.0 -
Farmers market food can often be worse for the environment in that it's often shipped in small amounts and produced in locations out of season so it requires more fuel, water, heating, fertilizers and pesticides than if the food was grown in bulk in season and shipped in bulk.
Depending on where the farmers' markets are, but ours here are all local farmers who grow their produce in the area, in season. We all know what we want and have to wait until the products are ready and we can get them! It seems to take forever for the fingerling potatoes to come around each summer. Ours are mostly local Hmong growers.
Have you ever been to the one on the Square? It is the longest running Farmer's Market in the country and they only allow Wisconsin farmers to sell. Most farms are within an hour of Madison.
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I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.0
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I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.
You missed the good stuff. We (Wisconsin) are #1 in cranberries (produce 58% of all cranberries), green beans, and ginseng, #3 in potatoes, #3 in cherries. You are right about the Flatlanders down south. We used to be a top grower of industrial hemp before it was outlawed. My Grandpa grew it as a cash crop to supplement his dairy and hogs and it helped him get through the Depression in good shape.
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Farmers market food can often be worse for the environment in that it's often shipped in small amounts and produced in locations out of season so it requires more fuel, water, heating, fertilizers and pesticides than if the food was grown in bulk in season and shipped in bulk.
Depending on where the farmers' markets are, but ours here are all local farmers who grow their produce in the area, in season. We all know what we want and have to wait until the products are ready and we can get them! It seems to take forever for the fingerling potatoes to come around each summer. Ours are mostly local Hmong growers.
Have you ever been to the one on the Square? It is the longest running Farmer's Market in the country and they only allow Wisconsin farmers to sell. Most farms are within an hour of Madison.
I haven't, I need to, it sounds like!
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I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.
You missed the good stuff. We (Wisconsin) are #1 in cranberries (produce 58% of all cranberries), green beans, and ginseng, #3 in potatoes, #3 in cherries. You are right about the Flatlanders down south. We used to be a top grower of industrial hemp before it was outlawed. My Grandpa grew it as a cash crop to supplement his dairy and hogs and it helped him get through the Depression in good shape.
All of this. And those cranberries and cherries result in some pretty fine wines. The cows make us the #1 milk and cheese producer in the country. Some of those cheeses are the finest in the world. Not to mention we have a pretty healthy amount of apple orchards.0 -
I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.
You missed the good stuff. We (Wisconsin) are #1 in cranberries (produce 58% of all cranberries), green beans, and ginseng, #3 in potatoes, #3 in cherries. You are right about the Flatlanders down south. We used to be a top grower of industrial hemp before it was outlawed. My Grandpa grew it as a cash crop to supplement his dairy and hogs and it helped him get through the Depression in good shape.
All of this. And those cranberries and cherries result in some pretty fine wines. The cows make us the #1 milk and cheese producer in the country. Some of those cheeses are the finest in the world. Not to mention we have a pretty healthy amount of apple orchards.
Wine, cheese, potatoes, and apples? I may have to move.0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.
You missed the good stuff. We (Wisconsin) are #1 in cranberries (produce 58% of all cranberries), green beans, and ginseng, #3 in potatoes, #3 in cherries. You are right about the Flatlanders down south. We used to be a top grower of industrial hemp before it was outlawed. My Grandpa grew it as a cash crop to supplement his dairy and hogs and it helped him get through the Depression in good shape.
All of this. And those cranberries and cherries result in some pretty fine wines. The cows make us the #1 milk and cheese producer in the country. Some of those cheeses are the finest in the world. Not to mention we have a pretty healthy amount of apple orchards.
Wine, cheese, potatoes, and apples? I may have to move.
Wisconsin rocks!0 -
I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.
You missed the good stuff. We (Wisconsin) are #1 in cranberries (produce 58% of all cranberries), green beans, and ginseng, #3 in potatoes, #3 in cherries. You are right about the Flatlanders down south. We used to be a top grower of industrial hemp before it was outlawed. My Grandpa grew it as a cash crop to supplement his dairy and hogs and it helped him get through the Depression in good shape.
All of this. And those cranberries and cherries result in some pretty fine wines. The cows make us the #1 milk and cheese producer in the country. Some of those cheeses are the finest in the world. Not to mention we have a pretty healthy amount of apple orchards.
To be fair, we are #2 in milk (California beats us) but #1 in cheese. The cool thing is that we keep most of the good cheese in state for us and let the generic stuff go around the world.
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I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.
You missed the good stuff. We (Wisconsin) are #1 in cranberries (produce 58% of all cranberries), green beans, and ginseng, #3 in potatoes, #3 in cherries. You are right about the Flatlanders down south. We used to be a top grower of industrial hemp before it was outlawed. My Grandpa grew it as a cash crop to supplement his dairy and hogs and it helped him get through the Depression in good shape.
All of this. And those cranberries and cherries result in some pretty fine wines. The cows make us the #1 milk and cheese producer in the country. Some of those cheeses are the finest in the world. Not to mention we have a pretty healthy amount of apple orchards.
To be fair, we are #2 in milk (California beats us) but #1 in cheese. The cool thing is that we keep most of the good cheese in state for us and let the generic stuff go around the world.
They cheat (all those big commercial corporate farms). That's not real dairy. Those 'happy cow' commercials are bs - all they run is free stall dairies out there! No pastures for their cows.
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I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.
You missed the good stuff. We (Wisconsin) are #1 in cranberries (produce 58% of all cranberries), green beans, and ginseng, #3 in potatoes, #3 in cherries. You are right about the Flatlanders down south. We used to be a top grower of industrial hemp before it was outlawed. My Grandpa grew it as a cash crop to supplement his dairy and hogs and it helped him get through the Depression in good shape.
All of this. And those cranberries and cherries result in some pretty fine wines. The cows make us the #1 milk and cheese producer in the country. Some of those cheeses are the finest in the world. Not to mention we have a pretty healthy amount of apple orchards.
Not to mention all the great beers!
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I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.
You missed the good stuff. We (Wisconsin) are #1 in cranberries (produce 58% of all cranberries), green beans, and ginseng, #3 in potatoes, #3 in cherries. You are right about the Flatlanders down south. We used to be a top grower of industrial hemp before it was outlawed. My Grandpa grew it as a cash crop to supplement his dairy and hogs and it helped him get through the Depression in good shape.
We are #1 in pumpkin, apparently.
Lots of other vegetables too, of course. That said, I'm willing to buy from WI, MI, and even IN on occasion.0 -
Illinois also has the horseradish capital of the world (http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journals/illinois/life/deep-roots-collinsville-s-long-lasting-claim-to-horseradish-capital/article_0606019a-83fb-5038-98c6-7eb9b72a1daf.html), although it's actually in the St. Louis metro area (and is also home to the world's largish ketchup bottle, which MO can claim if they want).
Wisconsin, however, has the Mustard Museum (http://mustardmuseum.com/) in addition to all the cheese.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Illinois also has the horseradish capital of the world (http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journals/illinois/life/deep-roots-collinsville-s-long-lasting-claim-to-horseradish-capital/article_0606019a-83fb-5038-98c6-7eb9b72a1daf.html), although it's actually in the St. Louis metro area (and is also home to the world's largish ketchup bottle, which MO can claim if they want).
Wisconsin, however, has the Mustard Museum (http://mustardmuseum.com/) in addition to all the cheese.
Ever attended Poupon-U ????????????
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Even in season, some regions grow thinks more efficiently. Idaho has a pretty good climate for growing potatoes - one grown there and railroad freighted across the country will probably still take less energy than one grown and trucked locally because of the reduced need for everything going into it. Freakonomics looked into it once - they had figures that estimated only 15 or less of a crop's total fuel/energy input is shipping.Farmers market food can often be worse for the environment in that it's often shipped in small amounts and produced in locations out of season so it requires more fuel, water, heating, fertilizers and pesticides than if the food was grown in bulk in season and shipped in bulk.
Depending on where the farmers' markets are, but ours here are all local farmers who grow their produce in the area, in season. We all know what we want and have to wait until the products are ready and we can get them! It seems to take forever for the fingerling potatoes to come around each summer. Ours are mostly local Hmong growers.
This sounds reasonable to me. I don't grow potatoes simply because it's cheaper to buy Idaho potatoes at the store, and we don't eat a lot of potatoes. It's just as cheap to buy organic carrots as grow them too, but I still grow those because they taste better.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I have it on good authority (road trip) that all they grow in Wisconsin and Illinois is corn, soy and cows.
You missed the good stuff. We (Wisconsin) are #1 in cranberries (produce 58% of all cranberries), green beans, and ginseng, #3 in potatoes, #3 in cherries. You are right about the Flatlanders down south. We used to be a top grower of industrial hemp before it was outlawed. My Grandpa grew it as a cash crop to supplement his dairy and hogs and it helped him get through the Depression in good shape.
We are #1 in pumpkin, apparently.
Lots of other vegetables too, of course. That said, I'm willing to buy from WI, MI, and even IN on occasion.
Yeah, the Great Lakes states and Iowa are all great places for produce. We have the Lake in the way so don't get as much from MI but we do get a lot from Minnesota, Iowa, and Illinois.
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Farmers market food can often be worse for the environment in that it's often shipped in small amounts and produced in locations out of season so it requires more fuel, water, heating, fertilizers and pesticides than if the food was grown in bulk in season and shipped in bulk.
Depending on where the farmers' markets are, but ours here are all local farmers who grow their produce in the area, in season. We all know what we want and have to wait until the products are ready and we can get them! It seems to take forever for the fingerling potatoes to come around each summer. Ours are mostly local Hmong growers.
Even if the food is in season, it's small quantities. This can mean 5 farmers road trips to the market for 5 basketfuls instead of one truckload.
But what if those farmers where going to the market anyway, to buy produce for themselves (as by the very nature of these markets they are visited by 'local people') and take the baskets of produce with them, surely this way they become the most environmentally friendly. As they are not using any additional fuel and therefore leaving no carbon footprint!
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My office buddy who was raised on a farm asks, what about the farms far from any urban center? Is their crop no good? There's an awful lot of farms like that in Canada.0
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »Farmers market food can often be worse for the environment in that it's often shipped in small amounts and produced in locations out of season so it requires more fuel, water, heating, fertilizers and pesticides than if the food was grown in bulk in season and shipped in bulk.
Depending on where the farmers' markets are, but ours here are all local farmers who grow their produce in the area, in season. We all know what we want and have to wait until the products are ready and we can get them! It seems to take forever for the fingerling potatoes to come around each summer. Ours are mostly local Hmong growers.
Even if the food is in season, it's small quantities. This can mean 5 farmers road trips to the market for 5 basketfuls instead of one truckload.
But what if those farmers where going to the market anyway, to buy produce for themselves (as by the very nature of these markets they are visited by 'local people') and take the baskets of produce with them, surely this way they become the most environmentally friendly. As they are not using any additional fuel and therefore leaving no carbon footprint!
I seriously doubt that growing food out of season and shipping small amounts far away is the norm for farmer's markets.0
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