Hello!! Thoughts on the 70% nutrition, 30% gym mentality??
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Tigger, it is basic CICO. I picked apart his post because he's wrong. I agree with all the benefits of exercise, but you can keep the weight off without it.
Glad I could mind boggle.
Your own failings completely pass you by. You are just as wrong as he is. I can see what he is trying to say but you have no excuse. Nobody said you couldnt diet without exercise so why on earth you and a certain other poster keep banging on about an accepted point is mystifying. At its most basic exercise also has a direct effect on cico and can influence the deficit. Its not just about fitness.0 -
Yes, I do get what you're saying, and I didn't twist your words. Weight loss comes from calorie restriction, which happens in the kitchen. Anything after that is personal preference only. People who don't exercise can keep the weight off too by retricting calories.
Well it depends what you mean by calorie restriction. Only the deficit matters and not really where it comes from. You are again dismissing the calories you cna burn in the gym and there effect on the deficit. Its basic cico for goodness sake.
You are also again going on about people not exercising, but nobody has said you have to do exercise, just that if you do it has an effect on the deficit. How cna you not understand that?
I'm not misunderstanding or dismissing anthing.
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Tigger, it is basic CICO. I picked apart his post because he's wrong. I agree with all the benefits of exercise, but you can keep the weight off without it.
Glad I could mind boggle.
Your own failings completely pass you by. You are just as wrong as he is. I can see what he is trying to say but you have no excuse. Nobody said you couldnt diet without exercise so why on earth you and a certain other poster keep banging on about an accepted point is mystifying. At its most basic exercise also has a direct effect on cico and can influence the deficit. Its not just about fitness.
Hey Tigger, is yor condescending attitude making you feel better?
Nobody is disputing the fact that exercise has a direct effect on cico, but some posters seem to think it's essential to cico. It's not.0 -
Tigger, it is basic CICO. I picked apart his post because he's wrong. I agree with all the benefits of exercise, but you can keep the weight off without it.
Glad I could mind boggle.
Your own failings completely pass you by. You are just as wrong as he is. I can see what he is trying to say but you have no excuse. Nobody said you couldnt diet without exercise so why on earth you and a certain other poster keep banging on about an accepted point is mystifying. At its most basic exercise also has a direct effect on cico and can influence the deficit. Its not just about fitness.
Hey Tigger, is yor condescending attitude making you feel better?
Nobody is disputing the fact that exercise has a direct effect on cico, but some posters seem to think it's essential to cico. It's not.
I also can't help but chuckle as you keep being referenced as the "no exercise folks" since you clearly place no value in exercise. #sarcasm
I might go for a run this morning.
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Tigger, it is basic CICO. I picked apart his post because he's wrong. I agree with all the benefits of exercise, but you can keep the weight off without it.
Glad I could mind boggle.
Your own failings completely pass you by. You are just as wrong as he is. I can see what he is trying to say but you have no excuse. Nobody said you couldnt diet without exercise so why on earth you and a certain other poster keep banging on about an accepted point is mystifying. At its most basic exercise also has a direct effect on cico and can influence the deficit. Its not just about fitness.
Hey Tigger, is yor condescending attitude making you feel better?
Nobody is disputing the fact that exercise has a direct effect on cico, but some posters seem to think it's essential to cico. It's not.
Then why do you keep using the diet happens in the kitchen and fitness happens in the gym nonsense, which is completely flawed. I have no interest in whether anyone wnats to create a diet without exercise or wants to exercise several times a week.
Show us the posters who have said you cant diet without exercise and link it. I have never seen it.
The no exercise folks are strictly in relation to the fitness only idea. Not whether they exercise themselves for whatever reason. This is the first time sll has ever acknowledged the effect exercise has on cico.0 -
Yes, I do get what you're saying, and I didn't twist your words. Weight loss comes from calorie restriction, which happens in the kitchen. Anything after that is personal preference only. People who don't exercise can keep the weight off too by retricting calories.
Well it depends what you mean by calorie restriction. Only the deficit matters and not really where it comes from. You are again dismissing the calories you cna burn in the gym and there effect on the deficit. Its basic cico for goodness sake.
You are also again going on about people not exercising, but nobody has said you have to do exercise, just that if you do it has an effect on the deficit. How cna you not understand that?
I'm not misunderstanding or dismissing anthing.
You are misunderstanding and dismissing everything that does not agree with your backward interpretation of weight control.
I see post after post from you telling people they are wrong just because they don't share your opinion on something.
You say that weight loss only happens in the kitchen, so I guess exercise does not burn calories then. I guess that is wrong.
You say it's basic CICO, but yet you don't count the CO.
Well guess what?
in my opinion... you are wrong.0 -
bcalvanese wrote: »@bcalvanese, it seems to me you are contradicting yourself.
First you say:Weight loss happens in the kitchen. Fitness happens in the gym... is just so totally wrong. I can't believe you people keep going around, and around, and around, and around with this wrong way of thinking.
and then you say:The only thing that happens in the kitchen is "calories in".
The only thing that happens with exercise (not just the gym) is 'calories out".
In other words, diet happens in the kitchen and fitness happens in the gym (or, from exercise).It is a combination of both of these things that will determine a persons long term success rate, and to me they are both equally important until you get to a healthy weight and a good fitness level. once you do that, it's relatively easy to not gain weight, and you only need to exercise enough to maintain your fitness level.
I think the problem is that people are overcomplicating this to the point that they can't see the simple facts of it.
However, as you say once again that it's the combination of both that determine long term success rate, please remember that exercise is not necessary for weight loss. In fact, some people can't exercise due to disabilities. How do people who cannot exercise maintain a healthy weight? How do people who can't exercise lose weight and maintain?
Some people don't like to exercise, yet they successfully lose weight and keep it off. There are many success stories here.
I agree that exercise is awesome--I work on moving every single day, I am fit and healthy and I can't imagine my life without weight lifting and running. I love to walk too and do the elliptical machine. However, if I can't exercise, I want to make sure that I maintain my weight, which means my diet absolutely belongs in the kitchen and I must have control over my eating habits.
@ESotrops, the only thing needed to lose weight is a calorie deficit, exercise is not necessary. Whether or not you exercise. there was always calories out by the mere fact that you are alive. However, exercise provides fitness and raises your total daily energy expenditure so that you can eat a bit more.
I don't think you are getting what I am saying here.
I said "weight loss happens in the kitchen" is not true, not "diet happens in the kitchen". Weight loss and diet are totally different, and I don't know why you chose to twist my words around, but that is not what I meant at all.
"Weight loss" does not only happen in the kitchen. It only happens when the calories in are less than the calories out, and that can be accomplished through diet as well as exercise, or a combination of both (which is preferred).
I also know there are people who cant exercise, but I also know there are people who say they cant exercise but could if they consulted their doctor(s) and setup a plan that they "can" do. They just choose to say they cant exercise. There are many ailments that could greatly benefit from exercise, but some people simply choose not to pursue them.
There are some people who cannot exercise at all, and the only way to control weight for those people is diet.
It is known that most people do not succeed long term with diet alone.
It is known that most people succeed long term with a combination of diet and exercise.
I think diet and exercise are equally important to get to a healthy weight, and I think that exercise becomes more important once you get to a healthy weight because a fit body burns calories much better than a non fit body, and at that point its pretty easy to not over eat.
True, you can lose weight with diet alone, but the odds are greatly against long term success.
Yes, I do get what you're saying, and I didn't twist your words. Weight loss comes from calorie restriction, which happens in the kitchen. Anything after that is personal preference only. People who don't exercise can keep the weight off too by retricting calories.
That said, it seems to me you are misinformed regarding the study you spoke about above. The fact is a small percentage of people keep the weight off, but 90% of those that do exercise reguarly. That's not all that many people.
A fit body is indeed more efficient, but fitness does not make a person immune to weight gain. Fit people can get fat too just by the mere action of eating over the TDEE.
The odds are against the person who does not get their fork-to-mouth movement under control because eating too much is the reason people regain weight.
No, you don't get what I am saying, and yes, you did twist my words. You have done this to me (and others) in the past too.
Please stop twisting peoples words around and telling people that they are wrong just because they don't share your opinion.
Thanks,0 -
bcalvanese wrote: »
Yes, I do get what you're saying, and I didn't twist your words. Weight loss comes from calorie restriction, which happens in the kitchen. Anything after that is personal preference only. People who don't exercise can keep the weight off too by retricting calories.
Well it depends what you mean by calorie restriction. Only the deficit matters and not really where it comes from. You are again dismissing the calories you cna burn in the gym and there effect on the deficit. Its basic cico for goodness sake.
You are also again going on about people not exercising, but nobody has said you have to do exercise, just that if you do it has an effect on the deficit. How cna you not understand that?
I'm not misunderstanding or dismissing anthing.
You are misunderstanding and dismissing everything that does not agree with your backward interpretation of weight control.
I see post after post from you telling people they are wrong just because they don't share your opinion on something.
You say that weight loss only happens in the kitchen, so I guess exercise does not burn calories then. I guess that is wrong.
You say it's basic CICO, but yet you don't count the CO.
Well guess what?
in my opinion... you are wrong.
The exercise induced CO of most people who need to lose weight is insignificantly low. That's just how it is. If you've gotten fat off routinely eating 5000+ calories a day, you're physically incapable of exercising enough to not have to reduce your intake significantly.
Sure there's people who go and burn thousands from exercise, but those people already are fit and at a fairly normal weight, they're not trying to create a few thousand calories deficit or at least shouldn't cause that's not healthy either when you've got not much fat left to lose.
And you always have to take into account your CI because exercise for many people has the nasty side effect of making you more hungry, so it all ends up back at taking care of your intake regardless.0 -
Don't run for 90 minutes, though. You'll shame me.
Tigger, it is basic CICO. I picked apart his post because he's wrong. I agree with all the benefits of exercise, but you can keep the weight off without it.
Glad I could mind boggle.
Your own failings completely pass you by. You are just as wrong as he is. I can see what he is trying to say but you have no excuse. Nobody said you couldnt diet without exercise so why on earth you and a certain other poster keep banging on about an accepted point is mystifying. At its most basic exercise also has a direct effect on cico and can influence the deficit. Its not just about fitness.
Hey Tigger, is yor condescending attitude making you feel better?
Nobody is disputing the fact that exercise has a direct effect on cico, but some posters seem to think it's essential to cico. It's not.
I also can't help but chuckle as you keep being referenced as the "no exercise folks" since you clearly place no value in exercise. #sarcasm
I might go for a run this morning.
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bcalvanese wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »@bcalvanese, it seems to me you are contradicting yourself.
First you say:Weight loss happens in the kitchen. Fitness happens in the gym... is just so totally wrong. I can't believe you people keep going around, and around, and around, and around with this wrong way of thinking.
and then you say:The only thing that happens in the kitchen is "calories in".
The only thing that happens with exercise (not just the gym) is 'calories out".
In other words, diet happens in the kitchen and fitness happens in the gym (or, from exercise).It is a combination of both of these things that will determine a persons long term success rate, and to me they are both equally important until you get to a healthy weight and a good fitness level. once you do that, it's relatively easy to not gain weight, and you only need to exercise enough to maintain your fitness level.
I think the problem is that people are overcomplicating this to the point that they can't see the simple facts of it.
However, as you say once again that it's the combination of both that determine long term success rate, please remember that exercise is not necessary for weight loss. In fact, some people can't exercise due to disabilities. How do people who cannot exercise maintain a healthy weight? How do people who can't exercise lose weight and maintain?
Some people don't like to exercise, yet they successfully lose weight and keep it off. There are many success stories here.
I agree that exercise is awesome--I work on moving every single day, I am fit and healthy and I can't imagine my life without weight lifting and running. I love to walk too and do the elliptical machine. However, if I can't exercise, I want to make sure that I maintain my weight, which means my diet absolutely belongs in the kitchen and I must have control over my eating habits.
@ESotrops, the only thing needed to lose weight is a calorie deficit, exercise is not necessary. Whether or not you exercise. there was always calories out by the mere fact that you are alive. However, exercise provides fitness and raises your total daily energy expenditure so that you can eat a bit more.
I don't think you are getting what I am saying here.
I said "weight loss happens in the kitchen" is not true, not "diet happens in the kitchen". Weight loss and diet are totally different, and I don't know why you chose to twist my words around, but that is not what I meant at all.
"Weight loss" does not only happen in the kitchen. It only happens when the calories in are less than the calories out, and that can be accomplished through diet as well as exercise, or a combination of both (which is preferred).
I also know there are people who cant exercise, but I also know there are people who say they cant exercise but could if they consulted their doctor(s) and setup a plan that they "can" do. They just choose to say they cant exercise. There are many ailments that could greatly benefit from exercise, but some people simply choose not to pursue them.
There are some people who cannot exercise at all, and the only way to control weight for those people is diet.
It is known that most people do not succeed long term with diet alone.
It is known that most people succeed long term with a combination of diet and exercise.
I think diet and exercise are equally important to get to a healthy weight, and I think that exercise becomes more important once you get to a healthy weight because a fit body burns calories much better than a non fit body, and at that point its pretty easy to not over eat.
True, you can lose weight with diet alone, but the odds are greatly against long term success.
Yes, I do get what you're saying, and I didn't twist your words. Weight loss comes from calorie restriction, which happens in the kitchen. Anything after that is personal preference only. People who don't exercise can keep the weight off too by retricting calories.
That said, it seems to me you are misinformed regarding the study you spoke about above. The fact is a small percentage of people keep the weight off, but 90% of those that do exercise reguarly. That's not all that many people.
A fit body is indeed more efficient, but fitness does not make a person immune to weight gain. Fit people can get fat too just by the mere action of eating over the TDEE.
The odds are against the person who does not get their fork-to-mouth movement under control because eating too much is the reason people regain weight.
No, you don't get what I am saying, and yes, you did twist my words. You have done this to me (and others) in the past too.
Please stop twisting peoples words around and telling people that they are wrong just because they don't share your opinion.
Thanks,
Now you're making me laugh.
I didn't twist your words in the least bit. And, no I don't twist other people's words and tell them they are wrong just because we don't share the same opinion. I tell them they are wrong when they are spreading misinformation.
Wait a minute....I think it's against the TOS to reprimand other people.
If I'm not getting what you're saying, then neither are any of the other people who are disagreeing with you.
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bcalvanese wrote: »
Yes, I do get what you're saying, and I didn't twist your words. Weight loss comes from calorie restriction, which happens in the kitchen. Anything after that is personal preference only. People who don't exercise can keep the weight off too by retricting calories.
Well it depends what you mean by calorie restriction. Only the deficit matters and not really where it comes from. You are again dismissing the calories you cna burn in the gym and there effect on the deficit. Its basic cico for goodness sake.
You are also again going on about people not exercising, but nobody has said you have to do exercise, just that if you do it has an effect on the deficit. How cna you not understand that?
I'm not misunderstanding or dismissing anthing.
You are misunderstanding and dismissing everything that does not agree with your backward interpretation of weight control.
I see post after post from you telling people they are wrong just because they don't share your opinion on something.
You say that weight loss only happens in the kitchen, so I guess exercise does not burn calories then. I guess that is wrong.
You say it's basic CICO, but yet you don't count the CO.
Well guess what?
in my opinion... you are wrong.
Of course exercise burns calories, and I never said it didn't. Here I go again:
Basic CICO is calories in (food) and calories out (life). Exercise, while it increases those calories out for those who choose to exercise, has little bearing on whether the weight loss population at large keeps their weight off. Sure, 90% of the small margin of people who have lost weight have regular exercise plans, but that is correlation not causation. Regular exercise plans are open to interpretation, as I've seen in several postings here.
In other words, if you can't eat at a calorie deficit prior to exercise, then you are setting yourself up for failure should you run into a situation where you cannot exercise. In the end, it doesn't matter how fit you are, you will gain weight if your calorie intake is more than your calorie output.
Where am I wrong?0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Don't run for 90 minutes, though. You'll shame me.
Tigger, it is basic CICO. I picked apart his post because he's wrong. I agree with all the benefits of exercise, but you can keep the weight off without it.
Glad I could mind boggle.
Your own failings completely pass you by. You are just as wrong as he is. I can see what he is trying to say but you have no excuse. Nobody said you couldnt diet without exercise so why on earth you and a certain other poster keep banging on about an accepted point is mystifying. At its most basic exercise also has a direct effect on cico and can influence the deficit. Its not just about fitness.
Hey Tigger, is yor condescending attitude making you feel better?
Nobody is disputing the fact that exercise has a direct effect on cico, but some posters seem to think it's essential to cico. It's not.
I also can't help but chuckle as you keep being referenced as the "no exercise folks" since you clearly place no value in exercise. #sarcasm
I might go for a run this morning.
Nah, after breakfast I think it will be 30-45 minutes outside today. I just can't run on the treadmill two days in a row because...well....I'm old.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »
Yes, I do get what you're saying, and I didn't twist your words. Weight loss comes from calorie restriction, which happens in the kitchen. Anything after that is personal preference only. People who don't exercise can keep the weight off too by retricting calories.
Well it depends what you mean by calorie restriction. Only the deficit matters and not really where it comes from. You are again dismissing the calories you cna burn in the gym and there effect on the deficit. Its basic cico for goodness sake.
You are also again going on about people not exercising, but nobody has said you have to do exercise, just that if you do it has an effect on the deficit. How cna you not understand that?
I'm not misunderstanding or dismissing anthing.
You are misunderstanding and dismissing everything that does not agree with your backward interpretation of weight control.
I see post after post from you telling people they are wrong just because they don't share your opinion on something.
You say that weight loss only happens in the kitchen, so I guess exercise does not burn calories then. I guess that is wrong.
You say it's basic CICO, but yet you don't count the CO.
Well guess what?
in my opinion... you are wrong.
The exercise induced CO of most people who need to lose weight is insignificantly low. That's just how it is. If you've gotten fat off routinely eating 5000+ calories a day, you're physically incapable of exercising enough to not have to reduce your intake significantly.
Sure there's people who go and burn thousands from exercise, but those people already are fit and at a fairly normal weight, they're not trying to create a few thousand calories deficit or at least shouldn't cause that's not healthy either when you've got not much fat left to lose.
And you always have to take into account your CI because exercise for many people has the nasty side effect of making you more hungry, so it all ends up back at taking care of your intake regardless.
If you routinely eat 5000+ calories you likely weigh more than 400 pounds and are capable of burning 500 calories on an hour of strolling the neighborhood at a moderate speed. That's a pound a week provided you don't eat above maintenance.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm one for "whatever works for you" mentality. You could create a deficit either by eating less calories (dieting) or by spending more calories (exercising) or various degrees of both.
People who don't want to exercise can lose weight by restricting calories, and people who don't want to restrict can lose weight by keeping their intake constant but introducing more physical activity.
Note that in both cases at least some work needs to be done in the kitchen, either to create a deficit or to avoid ruining one.
Logical however logic can seem out of place in a food fight.
Thanks for your posts.
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Original post deleted as duplicative, so I'll replace it with: SLLRunner-you are attacking a strawman0
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I think that was her point. She was responding to someone who was using the statistics improperly.sheldonklein wrote: »http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/default.htm
Over ninety percent of successful weight lossers modified their food intake.
Over ninety percent of successful weight lossers have an exercise program.
Neither of those facts have anything to do with whether 90%of people who exercise maintain weight loss.
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In my generation, we didn't have technology. We rode our bikes everywhere, built forts in the woods, went swimming at the creek, and were never home sitting on the couch playing with our technology.
Now there are 2 or 3 generations of people who spent most of their time on a couch playing video games, and sitting at the computer all day.
Take a look around. The answer is obvious.
Then, when someone wants to do something about their weight, they come to a forum like this for help only to get a bunch of mumbo jumbo backward advice telling them that they don't need to exercise at all to lose and maintain a healthy weight, and that exercise has little or no importance at all.
And the thing that is even more puzzling is... THIS IS A FITNESS FORUM!!!
I can see a day when obesity becomes the new norm, and the healthy kids will be made fun of.
I don't even care how many people attack me for my opinion anymore, and I will NEVER agree that exercise is not just as important in getting to and maintaining a healthy weight.
So go ahead. Attack away.0 -
That points already been made but shes equally at fault in terms of raising irrelevant points and failing to answer the questions put to her or drawing conclusions that just arent there.
Why not agree what the relevant questions to be answered are and then work through the points one by one or its just chaos.0
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