Clean Eating v Organic
Options
Replies
-
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
And generally not negative posts, although lots asking what she meant. Unsurprisingly, not a thread that blew up (the ones I mentioned are the ones which blow up).http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
And again generally helpful, non-negative responses and not a thread that blew up.
Generally the same, with one person harsher re the "clean eating" concept and one pushing it.
Did you think I was claiming that everyone who mentioned "clean eating" was saying others needed to do it? I was saying those are the one that start the big debates on "clean eating." It looks like most -- like me -- don't get bothered responding otherwise.
Of course, those are also the ones that get deleted, but here's one: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10020547/if-eating-trash-makes-us-sick-why-do-we-keep-eating-it/p1
This has lots of assertions that are supposed to be generally applicable.
There was also the charming one where OP posted about how all her friends eat "crap."
And the recent ones about the horrors of "boxed foods" and giving us rules to live by from the self-proclaimed fitness model, among many many others.
The boxed food thread is a great examle. The OP in that one never preached that anyone else should eat the way he does. He just asked if others avoided the same things as he.
Oh?
This is what he said:I try not eating food from a box because its mostly refined to the point of no nutritional value. It's several other reasons. Anyone else stay clear of boxed items?
Therefore, people reasonably wanted to dispute what we saw as a factually-incorrect claim, namely that all food from a box is "refined to the point of no nutritional value."
I still don't see how this is the case for the many reasons stated in that thread (including by you -- you were making some great points!).
(I realize me saying that might horrify you.)0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
And generally not negative posts, although lots asking what she meant. Unsurprisingly, not a thread that blew up (the ones I mentioned are the ones which blow up).http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
And again generally helpful, non-negative responses and not a thread that blew up.
Generally the same, with one person harsher re the "clean eating" concept and one pushing it.
Did you think I was claiming that everyone who mentioned "clean eating" was saying others needed to do it? I was saying those are the one that start the big debates on "clean eating." It looks like most -- like me -- don't get bothered responding otherwise.
Of course, those are also the ones that get deleted, but here's one: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10020547/if-eating-trash-makes-us-sick-why-do-we-keep-eating-it/p1
This has lots of assertions that are supposed to be generally applicable.
There was also the charming one where OP posted about how all her friends eat "crap."
And the recent ones about the horrors of "boxed foods" and giving us rules to live by from the self-proclaimed fitness model, among many many others.
The boxed food thread is a great examle. The OP in that one never preached that anyone else should eat the way he does. He just asked if others avoided the same things as he.
I'm with you. You're getting beaten down by a bunch of bullies who think anyone who does/says anything different is automatically wrong. Been there. Don't get sucked into their stupidity any further, you're better.
Heh, she's the one who first asked you if you really thought all boxed foods were unclean, like dried pasta. The very same thing that caused you to claim I was "on your case."
If that was mean -- and of course it was not -- she was as mean as I was.
I saw the irony in that as well...
0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
And generally not negative posts, although lots asking what she meant. Unsurprisingly, not a thread that blew up (the ones I mentioned are the ones which blow up).http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
And again generally helpful, non-negative responses and not a thread that blew up.
Generally the same, with one person harsher re the "clean eating" concept and one pushing it.
Did you think I was claiming that everyone who mentioned "clean eating" was saying others needed to do it? I was saying those are the one that start the big debates on "clean eating." It looks like most -- like me -- don't get bothered responding otherwise.
Of course, those are also the ones that get deleted, but here's one: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10020547/if-eating-trash-makes-us-sick-why-do-we-keep-eating-it/p1
This has lots of assertions that are supposed to be generally applicable.
There was also the charming one where OP posted about how all her friends eat "crap."
And the recent ones about the horrors of "boxed foods" and giving us rules to live by from the self-proclaimed fitness model, among many many others.
The boxed food thread is a great examle. The OP in that one never preached that anyone else should eat the way he does. He just asked if others avoided the same things as he.
Oh?
This is what he said:I try not eating food from a box because its mostly refined to the point of no nutritional value. It's several other reasons. Anyone else stay clear of boxed items?
Therefore, people reasonably wanted to dispute what we saw as a factually-incorrect claim, namely that all food from a box is "refined to the point of no nutritional value."
I still don't see how this is the case for the many reasons stated in that thread (including by you -- you were making some great points!).
(I realize me saying that might horrify you.)
I don't see where he told anyone else what to eat or not eat.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating
- just asking for advice.
I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.
Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.
And luckily no one in any of those threads said that they MUSTN'T eat clean or that they MUST use a moderation/IIFYM technique. The closest that I was was one poster who advised that they ditch the clean eating label, but still follow the general overall concept by eating mostly whole, nutrient-dense foods.
Thus, reinforcing my perception of the rarity of such comments
Except for the third response down in the last link:
OP - I am going to give you the following advice.
1. ditch the clean eating it is necessary for nothing and impossible to define.
2. enter your stats into MFP and set it for one pound per week loss.
3. get a food scale and weigh all solids
4. make sure you are using accurate MFP database entries
5. log everything that you eat
6. realize that no foods are bad/clean/good/whatever; you can eat the foods you like on a daily basis like cookies, ice cream, processed foods, etc; however, make sure that the majority of your foods are nutrient dense
7. make sure you hit micros/macors
8. find a form of exercise you like and do it < not necessary but is good for overall health.
Correct, I acknowledged that post advised to ditch the label, but follow the basic premise of eating primarily nutrient dense foods.
Still, you posted three entire threads to support your premise, yet only one post in all three threads even remotely comes close to that which you said happens frequently...again reinforcing my perception that it's quite rare.0 -
JustMissTracy wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
And generally not negative posts, although lots asking what she meant. Unsurprisingly, not a thread that blew up (the ones I mentioned are the ones which blow up).http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
And again generally helpful, non-negative responses and not a thread that blew up.
Generally the same, with one person harsher re the "clean eating" concept and one pushing it.
Did you think I was claiming that everyone who mentioned "clean eating" was saying others needed to do it? I was saying those are the one that start the big debates on "clean eating." It looks like most -- like me -- don't get bothered responding otherwise.
Of course, those are also the ones that get deleted, but here's one: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10020547/if-eating-trash-makes-us-sick-why-do-we-keep-eating-it/p1
This has lots of assertions that are supposed to be generally applicable.
There was also the charming one where OP posted about how all her friends eat "crap."
And the recent ones about the horrors of "boxed foods" and giving us rules to live by from the self-proclaimed fitness model, among many many others.
The boxed food thread is a great examle. The OP in that one never preached that anyone else should eat the way he does. He just asked if others avoided the same things as he.
I'm with you. You're getting beaten down by a bunch of bullies who think anyone who does/says anything different is automatically wrong. Been there. Don't get sucked into their stupidity any further, you're better.
Nah, I'm not better than anyone else. I just like to use different words and maybe see more gray than some.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
And generally not negative posts, although lots asking what she meant. Unsurprisingly, not a thread that blew up (the ones I mentioned are the ones which blow up).http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
And again generally helpful, non-negative responses and not a thread that blew up.
Generally the same, with one person harsher re the "clean eating" concept and one pushing it.
Did you think I was claiming that everyone who mentioned "clean eating" was saying others needed to do it? I was saying those are the one that start the big debates on "clean eating." It looks like most -- like me -- don't get bothered responding otherwise.
Of course, those are also the ones that get deleted, but here's one: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10020547/if-eating-trash-makes-us-sick-why-do-we-keep-eating-it/p1
This has lots of assertions that are supposed to be generally applicable.
There was also the charming one where OP posted about how all her friends eat "crap."
And the recent ones about the horrors of "boxed foods" and giving us rules to live by from the self-proclaimed fitness model, among many many others.
The boxed food thread is a great examle. The OP in that one never preached that anyone else should eat the way he does. He just asked if others avoided the same things as he.
Oh?
This is what he said:I try not eating food from a box because its mostly refined to the point of no nutritional value. It's several other reasons. Anyone else stay clear of boxed items?
Therefore, people reasonably wanted to dispute what we saw as a factually-incorrect claim, namely that all food from a box is "refined to the point of no nutritional value."
I still don't see how this is the case for the many reasons stated in that thread (including by you -- you were making some great points!).
(I realize me saying that might horrify you.)
I don't see where he told anyone else what to eat or not eat.
I didn't say he did. You were asking why respond, and I gave these reasons:I don't care unless they tell others that they shouldn't eat "processed foods" or that doing so is not healthy. When they make the latter claim it's a factual assertion that I think should be countered.
He made a (false) factual claim that I thought should be countered.0 -
Also, I will note that the rudest post in this thread so far seems to be the one calling most of us "stupid" and "bullies."
Ah, the irony.0 -
0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating
- just asking for advice.
I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.
Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.
And luckily no one in any of those threads said that they MUSTN'T eat clean or that they MUST use a moderation/IIFYM technique. The closest that I was was one poster who advised that they ditch the clean eating label, but still follow the general overall concept by eating mostly whole, nutrient-dense foods.
Thus, reinforcing my perception of the rarity of such comments
Except for the third response down in the last link:
OP - I am going to give you the following advice.
1. ditch the clean eating it is necessary for nothing and impossible to define.
2. enter your stats into MFP and set it for one pound per week loss.
3. get a food scale and weigh all solids
4. make sure you are using accurate MFP database entries
5. log everything that you eat
6. realize that no foods are bad/clean/good/whatever; you can eat the foods you like on a daily basis like cookies, ice cream, processed foods, etc; however, make sure that the majority of your foods are nutrient dense
7. make sure you hit micros/macors
8. find a form of exercise you like and do it < not necessary but is good for overall health.
Correct, I acknowledged that post advised to ditch the label, but follow the basic premise of eating primarily nutrient dense foods.
Still, you posted three entire threads to support your premise, yet only one post in all three threads even remotely comes close to that which you said happens frequently...again reinforcing my perception that it's quite rare.
You clearly misunderstand my examples!
They are three examples of clean posts where the op is NOT: telling people they MUST eat clean!
The fact that one of the post supports my other claim that a lot of these post are hijacked by people saying NOT to eat clean and follow moderation is just a coincidence!
0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »Organic food is designated organic based on growing practices; if you see something labeled "organic" in the grocery store, it means that it has met certain standards to have that label (although you should check what the standards are for the label, your definition of "organic" could be different from what the actual law states as acceptable practices and limits).
Clean eating is not a designation, but an eating style. People's definitions of the term vary, however the most general definition would probably be "a diet with an emphasis of whole or minimally-processed foods, which minimizes or avoids heavily-processed or prepackaged convenience foods." That seems to be the most frequent explanation I've seen clean eaters have in common, and even that general definition is tweaked based on the individual. Each person seems to have their own comfort levels in regards to foods, levels of processing, and frequency of consumption. If someone asked for clean eating recipes, I would probably ask them to clarify the specifics of their diet, just like I would a vegetarian, simply because there seems to be a myriad of different styles within that umbrella term (much like there is with vegetarians).
If you're interested in learning more about clean eating, there's a pretty active group here on MFP, they would probably be a good resource to explain that way of eating and what different individuals include in their diet.
This.
Ignore the ridiculous statements about clean eating as a moral position. That has to do with the insecurity of the offended parties and nothing to do with food...
and this would be how "religious" level arguments get perpetuated. The dumbest thing about all these threads is that we end up agreeing that eating mostly nutritious food, with care for the overall nutrition in the diet is what matters most, and NOT "good or bad" in the individual foods that make up the diet.
But it's just personal vocabulary preference. "mostly nutritious food" implies that other food is not nutritious. Some people (including me) choose to call the not nutritious stuff bad or junk. So what?
If I want to say I need to clean up my diet and quit eating so much junk, that's my biz. It has nothing at all to do with you or religion or morality. It's just the way I choose to talk. It's a big world man. People don't all use the same phrases.
Exactly. That's the problem with using these bland phrases that don't have a defined meaning to everyone. People ask, over and over, what they mean, and everyone argues about it. Clean means one thing as a word by itself, but when you put it together with another word, it starts to define that other word in ways that become somehow undefineable. Healthy is another word that does that. Junk is another. If we just keep 'eating' and 'food' defined as they are, without throwing a bunch of kitschy bull in with them, we all know what we mean and just eat and leave the whole mess alone.
Or, we could just let people be who they are and talk as they like without trying to force them into a predefined mold.
Who doesn't know what "junk" is? Junk is something we all have but don't want too much of. Whether it's junk in your attic, your closet or your diet. We all have junk we just can't seem to let go of, but no one wants too much junk around. It's doesn't really matter if I think X is junk and you think X is not junk. One man's junk is another man's treasure.
Problem being when trying to help new people who are struggling, they are vilifying their own food, and that's not a healthy mindset. It leads to disordered thinking and possibly eating. If we can catch people right at the start, and help them understand that it's not the food that's the problem, it's how they think and eat, we've solved so much. Labeling is something to avoid. Food is just food and we can skip labeling it. Look at how many threads in this very forum devolve into arguments and the original point gets lost because of food labeling. That's a terrible thing.
for example, lets take something that most would agree is "junk". A white flour biscuit. As far as calories go, you have wheat and fat, and next to no micronutrition and almost no fiber.
Lets say the biscuit is a quite large at about 600 calories.
For someone who is only taking in about 1500 calories, that's a pretty high % of the diet that is now filled with "junk". Probably not the best choice for this person as it will now be harder to get adequate nutrition out of food that is palatable in 900 calories.
But, take a larger man doing lots of exercise in a day who may eat 3500-4000 calories to maintain their weight. Suddenly that biscuit could be seen as beneficial, because if the rest of the diet is whole food, you have 600 calories of easily accessible calories that doesn't overly bulk up the rest of the diet, as this person likely would eat plenty of healthy calories in the 3000ish left.
Suddenly what was "junk" put in context becomes beneficial.
That is the first time I have ever seen a white flour biscuit (homemade or otherwise) classified as "junk", and this is the perfect example of something @lemurcat12 is pointing out. You are saying we can all agree this is "junk". What about that would anyone ever think is junk, let alone the majority of people? A homemade biscuit? A delicious vehicle for butter, jam, honey, or gravy? Junk?
I will admit that things like a bag of doritos or something like that has a more universally accepted classification of junk, even though I don't classify them that way I understand when someone else labels doritos as junk. But a biscuit?
The term junk food is a great one - it saves me time having to list all the foods I am choosing to limit in my diet.
Biscuits, jam and honey are all junk food.
I don't avoid them, but they are limited and do not make up the main part of my diet.
It's all about being efficient - in this instance I am able to use two words instead of four!
Don't you think it's confusing to use a term that means entirely different things to different people? Someone will say they are limiting "junk food" and mean bacon, you will say that and mean homemade whole-grain bread.
I don't find the term junk food bothersome, but it is slightly annoying that there's not a better common definition. As WinoGelato said, I generally assume Doritos are included or a Twinkie, and often fast food (even if it has protein) or bacon (same), and I guess homemade sweets, but I wouldn't have assumed homemade starch courses, even when relatively low in nutrients. And someone just yesterday insisted that potatoes were in this category. If someone told me they didn't eat meat, I'd know not to have lamb when they come over for dinner, but if someone says they avoid "junk food," I would not know to leave out the roasted potatoes. (Which I consider nutritious, for the record.)
Who would classify 'bacon' as junk food??????
You ask that after you said you define honey as junk food?0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating
- just asking for advice.
I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.
Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.
And luckily no one in any of those threads said that they MUSTN'T eat clean or that they MUST use a moderation/IIFYM technique. The closest that I was was one poster who advised that they ditch the clean eating label, but still follow the general overall concept by eating mostly whole, nutrient-dense foods.
Thus, reinforcing my perception of the rarity of such comments
Except for the third response down in the last link:
OP - I am going to give you the following advice.
1. ditch the clean eating it is necessary for nothing and impossible to define.
2. enter your stats into MFP and set it for one pound per week loss.
3. get a food scale and weigh all solids
4. make sure you are using accurate MFP database entries
5. log everything that you eat
6. realize that no foods are bad/clean/good/whatever; you can eat the foods you like on a daily basis like cookies, ice cream, processed foods, etc; however, make sure that the majority of your foods are nutrient dense
7. make sure you hit micros/macors
8. find a form of exercise you like and do it < not necessary but is good for overall health.
Correct, I acknowledged that post advised to ditch the label, but follow the basic premise of eating primarily nutrient dense foods.
Still, you posted three entire threads to support your premise, yet only one post in all three threads even remotely comes close to that which you said happens frequently...again reinforcing my perception that it's quite rare.
You clearly misunderstand my examples!
They are three examples of clean posts where the op is NOT: telling people they MUST eat clean!
The fact that one of the post supports my other claim that a lot of these post are hijacked by people saying NOT to eat clean and follow moderation is just a coincidence!
Luckily I can find hundreds of posts too where OPs don't tell people that they must eat only in moderation.
However, the presence of such posts does not demonstrate the lack of the opposite.0 -
Also FTR I don't take personal umbrage at anything on MFP, even the rare PM I've received that implied I must not know what I'm talking about because I'm overweight.0
-
So you really need some links to times people have told someone must eat in some form of clean to lose weight?tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating
- just asking for advice.
I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.
Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.
And luckily no one in any of those threads said that they MUSTN'T eat clean or that they MUST use a moderation/IIFYM technique. The closest that I was was one poster who advised that they ditch the clean eating label, but still follow the general overall concept by eating mostly whole, nutrient-dense foods.
Thus, reinforcing my perception of the rarity of such comments
Except for the third response down in the last link:
OP - I am going to give you the following advice.
1. ditch the clean eating it is necessary for nothing and impossible to define.
2. enter your stats into MFP and set it for one pound per week loss.
3. get a food scale and weigh all solids
4. make sure you are using accurate MFP database entries
5. log everything that you eat
6. realize that no foods are bad/clean/good/whatever; you can eat the foods you like on a daily basis like cookies, ice cream, processed foods, etc; however, make sure that the majority of your foods are nutrient dense
7. make sure you hit micros/macors
8. find a form of exercise you like and do it < not necessary but is good for overall health.
Correct, I acknowledged that post advised to ditch the label, but follow the basic premise of eating primarily nutrient dense foods.
Still, you posted three entire threads to support your premise, yet only one post in all three threads even remotely comes close to that which you said happens frequently...again reinforcing my perception that it's quite rare.
You clearly misunderstand my examples!
They are three examples of clean posts where the op is NOT: telling people they MUST eat clean!
The fact that one of the post supports my other claim that a lot of these post are hijacked by people saying NOT to eat clean and follow moderation is just a coincidence!
I'll go get them:
Ooops.0 -
Also FTR I don't take personal umbrage at anything on MFP, even the rare PM I've received that implied I must not know what I'm talking about because I'm overweight.
What? I can't believe anyone would cook up such an excuse not to take someone's advice. Sounds awfully fishy to me.0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating
- just asking for advice.
I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.
Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.
And luckily no one in any of those threads said that they MUSTN'T eat clean or that they MUST use a moderation/IIFYM technique. The closest that I was was one poster who advised that they ditch the clean eating label, but still follow the general overall concept by eating mostly whole, nutrient-dense foods.
Thus, reinforcing my perception of the rarity of such comments
Except for the third response down in the last link:
OP - I am going to give you the following advice.
1. ditch the clean eating it is necessary for nothing and impossible to define.
2. enter your stats into MFP and set it for one pound per week loss.
3. get a food scale and weigh all solids
4. make sure you are using accurate MFP database entries
5. log everything that you eat
6. realize that no foods are bad/clean/good/whatever; you can eat the foods you like on a daily basis like cookies, ice cream, processed foods, etc; however, make sure that the majority of your foods are nutrient dense
7. make sure you hit micros/macors
8. find a form of exercise you like and do it < not necessary but is good for overall health.
Correct, I acknowledged that post advised to ditch the label, but follow the basic premise of eating primarily nutrient dense foods.
Still, you posted three entire threads to support your premise, yet only one post in all three threads even remotely comes close to that which you said happens frequently...again reinforcing my perception that it's quite rare.
You clearly misunderstand my examples!
They are three examples of clean posts where the op is NOT: telling people they MUST eat clean!
The fact that one of the post supports my other claim that a lot of these post are hijacked by people saying NOT to eat clean and follow moderation is just a coincidence!
Luckily I can find hundreds of posts too where OPs don't tell people that they must eat only in moderation.
However, the presence of such posts does not demonstrate the lack of the opposite.
Only in so far as they are the only 3 specific clean post in the last couple of months I could find and they all supported my claim that most do not command others to follow them.
I am happy if you can link some that do. I will read them!
Please don't feel the need to send all of the hundreds - 50 or so will do0 -
So you really need some links to times people have told someone must eat in some form of clean to lose weight?tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating
- just asking for advice.
I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.
Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.
And luckily no one in any of those threads said that they MUSTN'T eat clean or that they MUST use a moderation/IIFYM technique. The closest that I was was one poster who advised that they ditch the clean eating label, but still follow the general overall concept by eating mostly whole, nutrient-dense foods.
Thus, reinforcing my perception of the rarity of such comments
Except for the third response down in the last link:
OP - I am going to give you the following advice.
1. ditch the clean eating it is necessary for nothing and impossible to define.
2. enter your stats into MFP and set it for one pound per week loss.
3. get a food scale and weigh all solids
4. make sure you are using accurate MFP database entries
5. log everything that you eat
6. realize that no foods are bad/clean/good/whatever; you can eat the foods you like on a daily basis like cookies, ice cream, processed foods, etc; however, make sure that the majority of your foods are nutrient dense
7. make sure you hit micros/macors
8. find a form of exercise you like and do it < not necessary but is good for overall health.
Correct, I acknowledged that post advised to ditch the label, but follow the basic premise of eating primarily nutrient dense foods.
Still, you posted three entire threads to support your premise, yet only one post in all three threads even remotely comes close to that which you said happens frequently...again reinforcing my perception that it's quite rare.
You clearly misunderstand my examples!
They are three examples of clean posts where the op is NOT: telling people they MUST eat clean!
The fact that one of the post supports my other claim that a lot of these post are hijacked by people saying NOT to eat clean and follow moderation is just a coincidence!
I'll go get them:
Ooops.
That's funny ✋0 -
So you really need some links to times people have told someone must eat in some form of clean to lose weight?tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating
- just asking for advice.
I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.
Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.
And luckily no one in any of those threads said that they MUSTN'T eat clean or that they MUST use a moderation/IIFYM technique. The closest that I was was one poster who advised that they ditch the clean eating label, but still follow the general overall concept by eating mostly whole, nutrient-dense foods.
Thus, reinforcing my perception of the rarity of such comments
Except for the third response down in the last link:
OP - I am going to give you the following advice.
1. ditch the clean eating it is necessary for nothing and impossible to define.
2. enter your stats into MFP and set it for one pound per week loss.
3. get a food scale and weigh all solids
4. make sure you are using accurate MFP database entries
5. log everything that you eat
6. realize that no foods are bad/clean/good/whatever; you can eat the foods you like on a daily basis like cookies, ice cream, processed foods, etc; however, make sure that the majority of your foods are nutrient dense
7. make sure you hit micros/macors
8. find a form of exercise you like and do it < not necessary but is good for overall health.
Correct, I acknowledged that post advised to ditch the label, but follow the basic premise of eating primarily nutrient dense foods.
Still, you posted three entire threads to support your premise, yet only one post in all three threads even remotely comes close to that which you said happens frequently...again reinforcing my perception that it's quite rare.
You clearly misunderstand my examples!
They are three examples of clean posts where the op is NOT: telling people they MUST eat clean!
The fact that one of the post supports my other claim that a lot of these post are hijacked by people saying NOT to eat clean and follow moderation is just a coincidence!
I'll go get them:
Ooops.
Ha ha. I have seen some posts like that, but it's changing the subject a little (and certainly we don't want to do that in this thread
)
But the assertion was made that no one has a problem with terms like "clean eating" or "processed foods" UNLESS the the poster is saying you MUST do it.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »accidentalpancake wrote: »Organic food is designated organic based on growing practices; if you see something labeled "organic" in the grocery store, it means that it has met certain standards to have that label (although you should check what the standards are for the label, your definition of "organic" could be different from what the actual law states as acceptable practices and limits).
Clean eating is not a designation, but an eating style. People's definitions of the term vary, however the most general definition would probably be "a diet with an emphasis of whole or minimally-processed foods, which minimizes or avoids heavily-processed or prepackaged convenience foods." That seems to be the most frequent explanation I've seen clean eaters have in common, and even that general definition is tweaked based on the individual. Each person seems to have their own comfort levels in regards to foods, levels of processing, and frequency of consumption. If someone asked for clean eating recipes, I would probably ask them to clarify the specifics of their diet, just like I would a vegetarian, simply because there seems to be a myriad of different styles within that umbrella term (much like there is with vegetarians).
If you're interested in learning more about clean eating, there's a pretty active group here on MFP, they would probably be a good resource to explain that way of eating and what different individuals include in their diet.
This.
Ignore the ridiculous statements about clean eating as a moral position. That has to do with the insecurity of the offended parties and nothing to do with food...
and this would be how "religious" level arguments get perpetuated. The dumbest thing about all these threads is that we end up agreeing that eating mostly nutritious food, with care for the overall nutrition in the diet is what matters most, and NOT "good or bad" in the individual foods that make up the diet.
But it's just personal vocabulary preference. "mostly nutritious food" implies that other food is not nutritious. Some people (including me) choose to call the not nutritious stuff bad or junk. So what?
If I want to say I need to clean up my diet and quit eating so much junk, that's my biz. It has nothing at all to do with you or religion or morality. It's just the way I choose to talk. It's a big world man. People don't all use the same phrases.
Exactly. That's the problem with using these bland phrases that don't have a defined meaning to everyone. People ask, over and over, what they mean, and everyone argues about it. Clean means one thing as a word by itself, but when you put it together with another word, it starts to define that other word in ways that become somehow undefineable. Healthy is another word that does that. Junk is another. If we just keep 'eating' and 'food' defined as they are, without throwing a bunch of kitschy bull in with them, we all know what we mean and just eat and leave the whole mess alone.
Or, we could just let people be who they are and talk as they like without trying to force them into a predefined mold.
Who doesn't know what "junk" is? Junk is something we all have but don't want too much of. Whether it's junk in your attic, your closet or your diet. We all have junk we just can't seem to let go of, but no one wants too much junk around. It's doesn't really matter if I think X is junk and you think X is not junk. One man's junk is another man's treasure.
Problem being when trying to help new people who are struggling, they are vilifying their own food, and that's not a healthy mindset. It leads to disordered thinking and possibly eating. If we can catch people right at the start, and help them understand that it's not the food that's the problem, it's how they think and eat, we've solved so much. Labeling is something to avoid. Food is just food and we can skip labeling it. Look at how many threads in this very forum devolve into arguments and the original point gets lost because of food labeling. That's a terrible thing.
for example, lets take something that most would agree is "junk". A white flour biscuit. As far as calories go, you have wheat and fat, and next to no micronutrition and almost no fiber.
Lets say the biscuit is a quite large at about 600 calories.
For someone who is only taking in about 1500 calories, that's a pretty high % of the diet that is now filled with "junk". Probably not the best choice for this person as it will now be harder to get adequate nutrition out of food that is palatable in 900 calories.
But, take a larger man doing lots of exercise in a day who may eat 3500-4000 calories to maintain their weight. Suddenly that biscuit could be seen as beneficial, because if the rest of the diet is whole food, you have 600 calories of easily accessible calories that doesn't overly bulk up the rest of the diet, as this person likely would eat plenty of healthy calories in the 3000ish left.
Suddenly what was "junk" put in context becomes beneficial.
That is the first time I have ever seen a white flour biscuit (homemade or otherwise) classified as "junk", and this is the perfect example of something @lemurcat12 is pointing out. You are saying we can all agree this is "junk". What about that would anyone ever think is junk, let alone the majority of people? A homemade biscuit? A delicious vehicle for butter, jam, honey, or gravy? Junk?
I will admit that things like a bag of doritos or something like that has a more universally accepted classification of junk, even though I don't classify them that way I understand when someone else labels doritos as junk. But a biscuit?
The term junk food is a great one - it saves me time having to list all the foods I am choosing to limit in my diet.
Biscuits, jam and honey are all junk food.
I don't avoid them, but they are limited and do not make up the main part of my diet.
It's all about being efficient - in this instance I am able to use two words instead of four!
Don't you think it's confusing to use a term that means entirely different things to different people? Someone will say they are limiting "junk food" and mean bacon, you will say that and mean homemade whole-grain bread.
I don't find the term junk food bothersome, but it is slightly annoying that there's not a better common definition. As WinoGelato said, I generally assume Doritos are included or a Twinkie, and often fast food (even if it has protein) or bacon (same), and I guess homemade sweets, but I wouldn't have assumed homemade starch courses, even when relatively low in nutrients. And someone just yesterday insisted that potatoes were in this category. If someone told me they didn't eat meat, I'd know not to have lamb when they come over for dinner, but if someone says they avoid "junk food," I would not know to leave out the roasted potatoes. (Which I consider nutritious, for the record.)
Who would classify 'bacon' as junk food??????
You ask that after you said you define honey as junk food?
I was being tongue in cheek!
0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating
- just asking for advice.
I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.
Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.
And in those threads only once did someone outright tell the OP to not eat clean, also saying his reasons for why. Because it's a meaningless term and no better or worse for weightloss.
The threads where people told others they should be clean eating (or cutting out sugar, that's a favorite too) usually get a few hundred replies of arguments and then get locked and deleted.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ceoverturf wrote: »No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.
People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.
Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.
Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!
Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?
Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)
Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.
We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.
Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.
And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating
- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved
- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating
- just asking for advice.
I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.
Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.
And luckily no one in any of those threads said that they MUSTN'T eat clean or that they MUST use a moderation/IIFYM technique. The closest that I was was one poster who advised that they ditch the clean eating label, but still follow the general overall concept by eating mostly whole, nutrient-dense foods.
Thus, reinforcing my perception of the rarity of such comments
Except for the third response down in the last link:
OP - I am going to give you the following advice.
1. ditch the clean eating it is necessary for nothing and impossible to define.
2. enter your stats into MFP and set it for one pound per week loss.
3. get a food scale and weigh all solids
4. make sure you are using accurate MFP database entries
5. log everything that you eat
6. realize that no foods are bad/clean/good/whatever; you can eat the foods you like on a daily basis like cookies, ice cream, processed foods, etc; however, make sure that the majority of your foods are nutrient dense
7. make sure you hit micros/macors
8. find a form of exercise you like and do it < not necessary but is good for overall health.
Correct, I acknowledged that post advised to ditch the label, but follow the basic premise of eating primarily nutrient dense foods.
Still, you posted three entire threads to support your premise, yet only one post in all three threads even remotely comes close to that which you said happens frequently...again reinforcing my perception that it's quite rare.
You clearly misunderstand my examples!
They are three examples of clean posts where the op is NOT: telling people they MUST eat clean!
The fact that one of the post supports my other claim that a lot of these post are hijacked by people saying NOT to eat clean and follow moderation is just a coincidence!
Luckily I can find hundreds of posts too where OPs don't tell people that they must eat only in moderation.
However, the presence of such posts does not demonstrate the lack of the opposite.
Only in so far as they are the only 3 specific clean post in the last couple of months I could find and they all supported my claim that most do not command others to follow them.
I am happy if you can link some that do. I will read them!
Please don't feel the need to send all of the hundreds - 50 or so will do
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10245967/rules-are-simple-yet-require-consistency-and-habit-building/p1
eta: Didn't specifically use the term "clean" in OP, but the premise is obvious.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 390 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 921 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions