Abs abs please i want tight core
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Why does it sound dismissive? Especially when it's true? Did you know you burn more fat sleeping 8 hours, than you would doing 2 hours of hiking? Why? Because physical activity will always burn glycogen first before even touching fat stores. At rest the body burns fat EXCLUSIVELY for energy usage.hamptontom wrote: »I understand what you're saying, Niner...but when you say to someone "you don't need to do cardio to burn fat", it sounds dismissive...and could possibly be simplified to "you don't need to do cardio".
It's really hard to believe that I'd have gotten the results I've gotten if I hadn't been doing it these past few months.
I'm NEVER against exercise of any type. But I'm not going to pacify someone by saying "hey doing all that cardio means you're burning fat" because it's basically not true.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Huh, I didn't know you don't use glycogen when resting.0 -
hamptontom wrote: »
Why does it sound dismissive? Especially when it's true? Did you know you burn more fat sleeping 8 hours, than you would doing 2 hours of hiking? Why? Because physical activity will always burn glycogen first before even touching fat stores. At rest the body burns fat EXCLUSIVELY for energy usage.
No, I didn't know that...but it certainly makes sense. It also helps explain why I lose at a slightly higher rate when I curtail eating after 8pm...especially in the time that I've been going to the gym at night.I'm NEVER against exercise of any type. But I'm not going to pacify someone by saying "hey doing all that cardio means you're burning fat" because it's basically not true.
Alright...I think we've veered off into that place where forum discussions often end up. Let me try to hit the "reset" button, here.
I would never suggest, especially considering your profession, that you should suggest something in any scenario that isn't true. So let's reframe this statement, in a way that maybe we both can agree upon:
- Cardio doesn't burn fat from your existing fat stores. The only way that's lost is by eating at a deficit.
BUT -
would it not also be accurate to say:
-Cardio doesn't burn existing fat - it burns off calories that might have otherwise been stored as fat?
Please understand that I'm not trying to contradict your statements, and I'm not trying to call you out on anything - I'm not really in a position to argue with you on ANY of this, believe me. But - and correct me if I'm wrong - it seems to stand to reason that incorporating some form of cardio could only be helpful to pretty much ANYONE that identified weight loss as a fitness goal, since it burns off calories that wouldn't have been burned off in its absence.
The reason I said it sounds dismissive is because when you say to someone - especially someone who's coming here asking for advice - that "they don't need to do cardio to burn fat"...well, OK. The facts support that statement. But you have to see where that could be interpreted negatively...right?
That's all I'm tryin' to say, man. At first blush, it comes off as a cardio brush-off. I get that it wasn't your intention. I'm just trying to explain why I heard it the way I did.
If someone wants to use cardio to create a larger deficit then it certain will help with fat loss but they could still lose that fat through eating alone. Burning 500 in exercise or eating 500 fewer calories come out the same.
Of course, cardio has awesome health benefits and I certainly am not against it. Just pointing out that it's not what directly causes fat loss; it's overall deficit. As I said, I ate all mine back and lost at a steady rate.
It's a good thing for Niner, or anyone, to point out because so many folks come on MFP and burn out killing themselves with cardio that they hate because they feel like it's what they have to do. Realizing that it's not imperative to weightloss frees folks to explore other options for fitness even if they still want incorporate some cardio in there too.
Congrats on your loss though!
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I have literally not done an ab exercise in a deficit...Compound lifts, eat at a deficit to lose fat. Don't waste your time.0
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It's just a body type, OP. I can see my ribs quite clearly, but my lower tummy is still more covered with a fat layer than my other abs. I like all the other definition in my abs and don't mind a bit of softness lower, myself. If you don't have any definition anywhere in your abs after what you are doing, you need to lower your bodyfat, yeah.
Or possibly grow your abs, if you are at a low enough bodyfat percent. Use weights and eat at maintenance at least if you want to make them actually bigger and to show that way. Maybe yours are really working but not big at all.0 -
Carbohydrates’ Role in the Body
Energy source- Energy from glucose and muscle glycogen breakdown ultimately powers muscle action (particularly high-intensity exercise) and other more “silent” forms of biologic work. For physically active people, adequate daily carbohydrate intake maintains the body’s limited glycogen stores. However, more is not necessarily better; if dietary carbohydrate intake exceeds the cells’ capacity to store glycogen, the carbohydrate excess readily converts to fat, thus triggering an increase in the body’s total fat content.
Protein sparer- Adequate carbohydrate intake preserves tissue proteins. Normally, protein contributes to tissue maintenance, repair, and growth and as a minor nutrient energy source. With reduced glycogen reserves, gluconeogenesis synthesizes glucose from protein (amino acids) and the glycerol portion of the fat molecule. This metabolic process increases carbohydrate availability and maintains plasma glucose levels under three conditions:
a. Dietary restriction b. Prolonged exercise c. Repeated bouts of intense training
Metabolic primer- By products of carbohydrate breakdown serve as a primer to facilitate the body’s use of fat for energy, particularly in the liver. Insufficient carbohydrate metabolism (either through limitations in glucose transport into the cell, as occurs in diabetes, or glycogen depletion through inadequate diet or prolonged exercise) increases dependence on fat utilization for energy. When this happens, the body cannot generate a sustained high level of aerobic energy transfer from fat-only metabolism. This consequence reduces an individual’s maximum exercise intensity.
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If someone wants to use cardio to create a larger deficit then it certain will help with fat loss but they could still lose that fat through eating alone. Burning 500 in exercise or eating 500 fewer calories come out the same.
I gotta tell ya...this conversation has been really enlightening - and I say that without the slightest trace of sarcasm. Because before this came up, I don't think I gave a second thought to ANY of the deeper specifics regarding why I've been doing cardio in the first place. I knew that it was good for my heart, good for my endurance, and was improving my general health...and i knew that it was burning calories - but it never occurred to me to consider WHAT it was burning. I never really gave it a second thought, other than the assumption that whatever I was burning off in cardio wasn't gonna go straight to the flesh-colored fanny pack that used to be my gut.
The other thing that's occurring to me is that it's a good thing that there's more than one way to go about this. I've been better than I'd have ever thought I'd be about not eating back exercise calories, and staying within my numbers - but still, I'm one of those people that wouldn't think twice about putting another half-hour in on the elliptical if the guys at the office ordered pizza and I wanted to grab a slice. For other people, though, I can see where it'd be a lot easier to deny themselves the extra calories during the course of a day to avoid having to work it off.
Different strokes and all.
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hamptontom wrote: »
If someone wants to use cardio to create a larger deficit then it certain will help with fat loss but they could still lose that fat through eating alone. Burning 500 in exercise or eating 500 fewer calories come out the same.
I gotta tell ya...this conversation has been really enlightening - and I say that without the slightest trace of sarcasm. Because before this came up, I don't think I gave a second thought to ANY of the deeper specifics regarding why I've been doing cardio in the first place. I knew that it was good for my heart, good for my endurance, and was improving my general health...and i knew that it was burning calories - but it never occurred to me to consider WHAT it was burning. I never really gave it a second thought, other than the assumption that whatever I was burning off in cardio wasn't gonna go straight to the flesh-colored fanny pack that used to be my gut.
The other thing that's occurring to me is that it's a good thing that there's more than one way to go about this. I've been better than I'd have ever thought I'd be about not eating back exercise calories, and staying within my numbers - but still, I'm one of those people that wouldn't think twice about putting another half-hour in on the elliptical if the guys at the office ordered pizza and I wanted to grab a slice. For other people, though, I can see where it'd be a lot easier to deny themselves the extra calories during the course of a day to avoid having to work it off.
Different strokes and all.
I find the bold part interesting. I considered eating back my exercise calories to be staying within my numbers. I wanted to lose .5 lbs a week so I set my goal to that, lifted primarily, and then ate back my burns. That allowed me to stay at .5 lb loss per week while still having good workout sessions and getting to eat more; I don't like restricted diets. I too would go for the pizza! I do the same now that I'm in maintenance.
Please don't read this as me disagreeing with you, as we both said, there are many ways to go about this. It's interesting to see how folks view what they're doing.0 -
doralim1990 wrote: »My calories is already deficit enough as hell . I ate whole plant based food 80% all the time at about 1000cal per day! I was told that it is too little and i need at least 1200. Thats what confuse me. I can be toned in other body parts just not the abs.
well.. i actually think youre starving
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LeahEstevez4 wrote: »doralim1990 wrote: »My calories is already deficit enough as hell . I ate whole plant based food 80% all the time at about 1000cal per day! I was told that it is too little and i need at least 1200. Thats what confuse me. I can be toned in other body parts just not the abs.
well.. i actually think youre starving
Because i eat mostly plant based, veggie, fruit, potatoes, oats. I do get to eat alot to hit 1000. I dont think i could smash in another 200-300. Except from high fat food like avocado or nuts. That would be easy.
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I think you are very confused, OP. Maybe this thread will be helpful.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1161603/so-you-want-a-nice-stomach/p10 -
You don't need to do cardio to burn fat. Cardio burns calories and doesn't target fat as it's first source of energy. It's an ongoing myth that's echoed by many fitness/diet people who aren't really that familiar with physiology.
Really? So if my body holds about 1500 cals of glycogen, and I attempt to do an Ironman in 11 hours, I should just keel over and pass out/die at the 90 min mark, unless I eat 7000 calories?
The body absolutely consumes FAT and Glycogen (and muscle) in a ratio depending on the intensity. Fat holds more energy/calories and is a better energy source - BUT it is harder to process so the body won't do it if you're at a high intensity. So racing an all out 5 or 10K would be mostly glycogen and if you tried to go longer you'd bonk. Run at a lower intensity, the percentage of fat being consumed is higher so your glycogen store will last longer. Slow down more, the glycogen tank can last for days. A pound or two of fat (3500 cal each) can get you a long way. You can live for months on fat.
The only myth part is that there is some sort of absolute fat-burning zone - no, it's just a sliding ratio. At really low intensities the percentage of fat being burned might be high but the total actual calories per minute is less. Diminishing returns.
But I would agree with you that all that is REQUIRED for weight loss is less calories than TDEE - if you choose to raise your TDEE for the day and have a more enjoyable food life, that's up to you.
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I find the bold part interesting. I considered eating back my exercise calories to be staying within my numbers. I wanted to lose .5 lbs a week so I set my goal to that, lifted primarily, and then ate back my burns.
well, you set a reasonable goal for yourself and made your macros work for you. Wouldn't you say?That allowed me to stay at .5 lb loss per week while still having good workout sessions and getting to eat more; I don't like restricted diets. I too would go for the pizza! I do the same now that I'm in maintenance.
If it's OK, I'm gonna send you a friend request - I don't really know anything about where you started or how much you had to lose...but for me, the NIH "suggested weight" for my height is between 170-190 pounds. When I jumped into this pool, I was roughly a large sack of potatoes from 300 pounds (279-280 or so), so I had a lot to lose...as such, I was a LOT more aggressive earlier on. I feel like I've settled into a groove somewhat at this point, and...for sure, I'm not into restricted diets, either. I do try to keep carbs in check, though.0 -
Well, I've lost 26 lbs and 6 inches off my waist by getting most of my deficit from cardio. If I didn't do that, I'd have to cut back on food and I refuse to go on some ridiculous 1200 calorie diet. I'm 125 lbs and eat 1700 calories on average and I'm doing just fine. A deficit is a deficit is a deficit. Doesn't matter how you get it. You either starve/eat less or you move more. I choose to move more.
You don't need to do cardio to burn fat. Cardio burns calories and doesn't target fat as it's first source of energy. It's an ongoing myth that's echoed by many fitness/diet people who aren't really that familiar with physiology.Traveler120 wrote: »If your diet is on point, then do a bunch of cardio to burn some extra fat. You probably have an awesome core from all the work you've done but you won't see it until you lose the belly fat covering it.
Furthermore, it doesn't matter if cardio doesn't target fat as it's first source. If I do cardio and it depletes immediately available energy from glycogen stores, when I'm getting through the day and sleeping, and my body realizes that it has limited glycogen stores left but still needs energy to keep me going, it's going to tap my fat stores. That's the whole point of creating a deficit so that at the end of the day, you force your body to deplete its fat stores. And cardio contributes to that deficit. So I think you're the one perpetuating the myth and not understanding physiology.0 -
NO, you've been on the right track, don't let all this gibberish confuse you. Ask yourself, if you didn't use up all that energy from your exercise, and ate the exact same amount of food you've been eating, would you have lost the 45 lbs? NO, you would not. You would have lost less than that. So, all that exercise has had a huge impact on your weight loss and you should keep doing it as much as you can. What's the alternative, eating even less than you are? That's nuts. Keep doing what you're doing if you're getting the desired results and feeling energetic and healthy.hamptontom wrote: »
so to that end, you're suggesting that the time I've spent walking, biking, going to the gym and hitting the elliptical machine...all the stuff that I've been doing for the last four months - has had little to no impact on the 45 pounds i've lost in that time, just because I've been eating less than 1700 calories a day all that time?stevencloser wrote: »
Yeah, you can burn fat by merely existing while eating at a deficit. In fact, existing burns more calories than what most people are capable of burning through exercise. Some extra is nice but not required.hamptontom wrote: »
So if I interpret your reply at face value, all I have to do to burn fat is eat at a deficit..and just exist?
You don't need to do cardio to burn fat. Cardio burns calories and doesn't target fat as it's first source of energy. It's an ongoing myth that's echoed by many fitness/diet people who aren't really that familiar with physiology.
I apologize if that sounds dickish, but I've never understood the thinly-veiled spite exhibited by some of us here for cardio.0 -
Traveler, Niner wasn't saying that cardio doesn't contribute to fat loss. Just that the OP isn't required to do it for her goals. Someone suggested she is. She can use cardio, diet, lifting or some combination of the three as long as there is a sustained deficit
And nobody said that Hamptontom"s hard work didn't contribute to his loss. It's apparent from his posts that he used it to create a deficit.
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Well, if someone is already eating at a certain level (which is why I told OP 'if your diet is on point') AND, they don't want to or can't eat less (because they're already eating less) AND, they still want to lose more fat, THEN yes they NEED to do cardio/exercise to burn fat because where else is your deficit going to come from. Niner said you don't need to and he/she was wrong.0
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Yes, cardio or other exercise. Diet on point could mean many things and not necessarily that the person couldn't eat less.
I think you have totally misconstrued what niner was saying and frankly all your caps make you seem hostile so I will leave you two to discuss it.
ETA: OP is eating 1000 cals a day. She doesn't need a bigger deficit by any means. Just needs patience.0 -
My point exactly, how is such a person going to diet when they're barely eating enough. If anything, they need to eat more first and foremost and then exercise if they want to lose. Staying at such low intakes for the sake of weight loss or to just 'be patient', is unhealthy.0
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Okay so what is the conclusion? Increase calorie intake and increase exercise or to create more calorie deficit? I dunno whether it is the right amount (of 1000 cal) like rice with stir fry veggie is barely 300cal? It is a whole plate of food.0
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If i am not losing on 1000cal, how can I increase my calories and still lose fat on my tummy?! Everyone's ranting about "calorie deficit" thingy.0
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Oh trust I train longer on cardio when it comes to Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's because family parties will be about food consumption. And though I'll never offset the amount I'd like to eat, just doing longer duration and putting in some extra work keeps me from totally going way over in calories those days.hamptontom wrote: »
If someone wants to use cardio to create a larger deficit then it certain will help with fat loss but they could still lose that fat through eating alone. Burning 500 in exercise or eating 500 fewer calories come out the same.
I gotta tell ya...this conversation has been really enlightening - and I say that without the slightest trace of sarcasm. Because before this came up, I don't think I gave a second thought to ANY of the deeper specifics regarding why I've been doing cardio in the first place. I knew that it was good for my heart, good for my endurance, and was improving my general health...and i knew that it was burning calories - but it never occurred to me to consider WHAT it was burning. I never really gave it a second thought, other than the assumption that whatever I was burning off in cardio wasn't gonna go straight to the flesh-colored fanny pack that used to be my gut.
The other thing that's occurring to me is that it's a good thing that there's more than one way to go about this. I've been better than I'd have ever thought I'd be about not eating back exercise calories, and staying within my numbers - but still, I'm one of those people that wouldn't think twice about putting another half-hour in on the elliptical if the guys at the office ordered pizza and I wanted to grab a slice. For other people, though, I can see where it'd be a lot easier to deny themselves the extra calories during the course of a day to avoid having to work it off.
Different strokes and all.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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In other words, the closer you are to rest, the more fat is used as an energy source. I've NEVER said that fat doesn't get used. I stated that it's not the FIRST source of energy to be utilized when doing cardio. And if we're being honest here, the "average" person isn't going to deplete their glycogen in 90 minutes of moderate exercise. When people say "do cardio to burn fat" it really is a myth. I'm certain this saying came around when aerobics classes sported many people who didn't look overly muscular, but lean in the 80's. Then of course videos came about spouting it along with the myth that if one targets and area with a particular exercise, fat would magically burn off there. There's lots of them that need to be dispelled because unless it's not, belief in it will continue and people will keep following them.You don't need to do cardio to burn fat. Cardio burns calories and doesn't target fat as it's first source of energy. It's an ongoing myth that's echoed by many fitness/diet people who aren't really that familiar with physiology.
Really? So if my body holds about 1500 cals of glycogen, and I attempt to do an Ironman in 11 hours, I should just keel over and pass out/die at the 90 min mark, unless I eat 7000 calories?
The body absolutely consumes FAT and Glycogen (and muscle) in a ratio depending on the intensity. Fat holds more energy/calories and is a better energy source - BUT it is harder to process so the body won't do it if you're at a high intensity. So racing an all out 5 or 10K would be mostly glycogen and if you tried to go longer you'd bonk. Run at a lower intensity, the percentage of fat being consumed is higher so your glycogen store will last longer. Slow down more, the glycogen tank can last for days. A pound or two of fat (3500 cal each) can get you a long way. You can live for months on fat.
The only myth part is that there is some sort of absolute fat-burning zone - no, it's just a sliding ratio. At really low intensities the percentage of fat being burned might be high but the total actual calories per minute is less. Diminishing returns.
But I would agree with you that all that is REQUIRED for weight loss is less calories than TDEE - if you choose to raise your TDEE for the day and have a more enjoyable food life, that's up to you.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Correct a deficit is a deficit. It DOESN'T matter how you get it. You're not disagreeing, you're just creating your deficit from cardio and eating less than you burn. That doesn't mean that cardio is NEEDED to create a deficit.Traveler120 wrote: »
Well, I've lost 26 lbs and 6 inches off my waist by getting most of my deficit from cardio. If I didn't do that, I'd have to cut back on food and I refuse to go on some ridiculous 1200 calorie diet. I'm 125 lbs and eat 1700 calories on average and I'm doing just fine. A deficit is a deficit is a deficit. Doesn't matter how you get it. You either starve/eat less or you move more. I choose to move more.
You don't need to do cardio to burn fat. Cardio burns calories and doesn't target fat as it's first source of energy. It's an ongoing myth that's echoed by many fitness/diet people who aren't really that familiar with physiology.Traveler120 wrote: »If your diet is on point, then do a bunch of cardio to burn some extra fat. You probably have an awesome core from all the work you've done but you won't see it until you lose the belly fat covering it.
However you don't NEED cardio to create a deficit. That's the whole point I've made. If that were so, then people who lay sick in beds and lose weight must be doing cardio?Furthermore, it doesn't matter if cardio doesn't target fat as it's first source. If I do cardio and it depletes immediately available energy from glycogen stores, when I'm getting through the day and sleeping, and my body realizes that it has limited glycogen stores left but still needs energy to keep me going, it's going to tap my fat stores. That's the whole point of creating a deficit so that at the end of the day, you force your body to deplete its fat stores. And cardio contributes to that deficit.
When you eat, you restore glycogen stores. And if you need more glycogen, the body will convert amino acids to glycogen. Fat is much more effectively used at rest and not while exercising. Not my rules, that's what's been put in print from Journals of Medicine like the Journal of Endocrinology and Metabolism. I'm not perpetuating anything since you're more than welcome to argue with Journals of Medicine on human physiology and how energy is used.So I think you're the one perpetuating the myth and not understanding physiology.
You don't have to agree, but you'd have to refute what's already written in these Journals to prove what you believe is happening. Don't know why you sound so irritated by this? I'm not making it up.
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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It's not gibberish. It's the truth. You just choose to believe it's not. There are lots and lots of people who lose weight without any exercise. It's not a prerequisite to lose weight or burn fat.Traveler120 wrote: »NO, you've been on the right track, don't let all this gibberish confuse you.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I've just now realized I was refuting your original first response and somehow you're taking it personally.Traveler120 wrote: »Well, if someone is already eating at a certain level (which is why I told OP 'if your diet is on point') AND, they don't want to or can't eat less (because they're already eating less) AND, they still want to lose more fat, THEN yes they NEED to do cardio/exercise to burn fat because where else is your deficit going to come from. Niner said you don't need to and he/she was wrong.
Let's look at this objectively: I've been doing this for 30 years and almost 20 years as a professional helping hundreds of people personally to lose/gain/maintain weight and fat. I've worked with obese, overweight, normal, and underweight people. I've studied physiology, kinesology, nutrition and biology along with some other sciences. Now why in the world would I DIRECTLY give someone wrong information? Because I want them to fail?
As I've mentioned, you can disagree, but doesn't mean your opinion is correct.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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How long have you been losing weight? Are you willing to post a pic of your abs? Besides abs, what else is your workout consisted of?doralim1990 wrote: »Okay so what is the conclusion? Increase calorie intake and increase exercise or to create more calorie deficit? I dunno whether it is the right amount (of 1000 cal) like rice with stir fry veggie is barely 300cal? It is a whole plate of food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Back to OPs question. With how very little you are eating, I am wondering if your idea of squishy tummy is an overly critical view. Doralim, how tall are you and what do you weight? Are you comfortable posting a picture of your stomach? You know we have internal organs, they can stick out sometimes, especially if you are eating bulky fibrous foods. I'm wondering if there isn't some body dysmorphic disorder going on here.
My 8 yr old daughter likes to stick out her belly after dinner and claim how fat she is. (In a silly way.) She's the farthest thing from fat, but you can poke her little belly and it squishes.0 -
doralim1990 wrote: »i do abs workout EVERYDAY : 4 sets of 6 different exercises (crunches,russian twist, mountain climber, bike crunches etc), 20 rep each. But still my abs are flabby as hell. I am not saying they're big, they just not toned enough.
I did lose a little bit of weight (3lbs) and toned up my legs. But my abs are kinda "jiggly". Any recommendation?
I pretty much eat 80% clean.
Try Hip Hop abs with Shaun T
I have been doing it for two weeks and already feel the difference0 -
Also, if you're not taking in any good fats, you'll burn less fat overall.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 0 -
How long have you been losing weight? Are you willing to post a pic of your abs? Besides abs, what else is your workout consisted of?doralim1990 wrote: »Okay so what is the conclusion? Increase calorie intake and increase exercise or to create more calorie deficit? I dunno whether it is the right amount (of 1000 cal) like rice with stir fry veggie is barely 300cal? It is a whole plate of food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Been losing weight for 1,5 month but my weight is stuck now. I am following fitness blender hiit workout (besides cardio the workout also train different target area each time like upper body and cardio, lower body and cardio, abs and cardio) and sometimes i squeeze in 10 mins abs workout after. Also i found that after my last week cheat meal and eliminating nuts in my diet, now my tummy is not as lean as before0
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