Calories in and Calories Out. Is it really that simple?
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »In theory its simple, in practice it's not..similar to telling a smoker to "just stop smoking"..."Just CICO" or "Eat less, move more" is completely useless in terms of helpful information
It is rather a cope out answer.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to eat less and move.
A - Just eat less and move more.
Yep great advice.
Kinda like.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to successfully run a sub 30min 5k.
A - just run at 6.32 miles an hour.
It's not really like that, more like:
Q - I love this food and that but I can't eat it because it will make me fat, help me I need some willpower and someone to motivate me!
A - That's not necessary. You don't have to cut anything out. Just eat less and move more. It's all about the calories!
Q - How rude! Why are you so mean?? I thought this forum was intended to help others succeed! I'm outta here!0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »Head west for 1500 miles is not irrelevant. CICO is not irrelevant either. But if you told me to head west for 1500 miles I'd give you that blank stare. The same blank stare as people get when they answer the question of how did you lose weight. I ate less, moved more.
Yes it is. If it was good enough for the Pioneers in wagons, it's good enough for us. If they needed help they hired a guide or for us they asked more questions.
Tell that to the Donner Party.
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queenliz99 wrote: »Head west for 1500 miles is not irrelevant. CICO is not irrelevant either. But if you told me to head west for 1500 miles I'd give you that blank stare. The same blank stare as people get when they answer the question of how did you lose weight. I ate less, moved more.
Yes it is. If it was good enough for the Pioneers in wagons, it's good enough for us. If they needed help they hired a guide or for us they asked more questions.
Tell that to the Donner Party.
Priceless. Just priceless. I can't stop laughing.0 -
Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.
A lot of threads and posts on this forum wouldn't exist if CICO was widely understood.0 -
VykkDraygoVPR wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »Maybe the whole issue just circles around the type of people you hang out with. I've never personally encountered anyone in real life that was felt he/she was greatly enlightened by the concept of "eat less and move more". For the people I encounter, that's all pretty obvious and they'd even be a little insulted for you to insinuate otherwise.
But, I totally also see on these forums some that have been completely shocked by it being that simple -- and have that, "really, is it that simple?" reaction. So maybe, it's just the perspective in the relative intelligence or thinking patterns of people we encounter on a daily basis.
I'm sure it does have to do with the people we hang around with. It's not their level of intelligence, though. Almost everyone I hang out with is either an MD or a PhD. Hazard of my job
Now, it could be an issue of common sense. I'm finding that to be exceedingly rare these days.
Many seem people equate knowledge with intelligence, and ignorance with stupidity. What they tend to forget is that while they are knowledable in their field, they are ignorant of others. This always frustrates me, as I would rather educate than denigrate.
I view a degree as proof of a minimum ability to learn and successfully apply knowledge. But, I view real life accomplishment in the same way. And, of course lack of either doesn't prove a lack of that ability either.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.
I think you're underestimating your friends. I think they do know what a calorie is. They just don't know how to apply it to themselves. That's where the "how" comes in.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Water weight is noise, fat loss is signal. It is fairly easy to fix the problem by looking at daily weight as a rolling average and track the trend with something like trendweigh.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »flippy1234 wrote: »I am so tired of so much diet crap being thrown at us. So many different magic bullets and philosophies. I just want to know, is it really that simple, CICO? If so, then what is all of this other nonsense?
Yes and no. FAT loss is really all about calories. But it's not always simple. The two biggest variables I can think of that make it seem like it’s about more than calories are:
1. Weight loss and fat loss may not be comparable. Water weight can be a big factor in weight loss.
2. There are many medical conditions that can throw a person outside the average categories making all these online calculators incorrect for them.
All of the other nonsense is mostly about money, but also about tyring to make it easier.
Water weight is not noise, it's weight. It makes you big just like fat does. And "easy" is opinion.
If you can use MFP, you can use trendweight or any of the other apps that do it.
And yes, it is noise, it can only be noise by virtue of being weight. Like if I read an oscilloscope voltage signal, all the jitter is volts - the scope isn't going to read volts and pressure or volts and temperature and combine them. If water wasn't weight, it wouldn't be a problem for determining weight of fat loss, which is the usual goal (signal) people want to measure.
And sure, enough water will make people bigger. Enough muscle will too. Besides bloating, people in physique competitions, or sport weigh-ins, I can't recall people looking to lose water.
Blah, blah, blah. Most people want to get smaller and look lean. Water can prevent that as much as fat can. Especially for some with certain medical conditions.
Unless your idea of lean is bodybuilding competition levels of driness, water weight won't prevent looking small and lean UNLESS you've got a medical condition.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.
I think you're underestimating your friends. I think they do know what a calorie is. They just don't know how to apply it to themselves. That's where the "how" comes in.
no, i don't think i am...you are correct in that they don't know how to apply it to themselves which I already stated...but I've had many discussions with my friends...they don't even understand that a calorie is a unit of energy...i think you give too much credit to strangers that you don't even know. people in general are very ignorant of general nutrition...i was one of them once upon a time, and no...I didn't really know what a calorie was...it was just an number and meant nothing...hell, a nutritional label meant next to nothing to me once upon a time.
I've been into this good livin' thing for over three years now and I work with a lot of my friends to help them...i can attest to a vast amount of ignorance of all things nutrition and fitness related.0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »So far, so good. No special diets, no pills, no shakes (ok, maybe some protein shakes), no weight watchers or nutrisystem. I eat the same foods that got me fat and I walk for exercise.
This is me too! Down 31lbs in 3 1/2 months. Loving it!!0 -
I used to read the Eat This, Not That website ALL THE TIME. I still follow them on the twitter. Now when I read their articles, I realize it is all crap. It's all woo. They make things seem like something that they aren't. It's easy to understand if that is the noise you are hearing all the time....why dieting seems so confusing and so intimidating.
I don't know about "Eat This, Not That" as an entity, but I read articles, etc. like that all the time, and they're moronic.
"You want to have a nacho appetizer? The whole plate has 1,000 calories, x grams of sodium, and y grams fat!" (nevermind that you're likely sharing it with at least one other person) "Instead, have some celery sticks!"
"You're going out for pizza? The whole pizza has 2,500 calories! Have a side salad without the dressing instead!"
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lindsey1979 wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »Maybe the whole issue just circles around the type of people you hang out with. I've never personally encountered anyone in real life that was felt he/she was greatly enlightened by the concept of "eat less and move more". For the people I encounter, that's all pretty obvious and they'd even be a little insulted for you to insinuate otherwise.
But, I totally also see on these forums some that have been completely shocked by it being that simple -- and have that, "really, is it that simple?" reaction. So maybe, it's just the perspective in the relative intelligence or thinking patterns of people we encounter on a daily basis.
I'm sure it does have to do with the people we hang around with. It's not their level of intelligence, though. Almost everyone I hang out with is either an MD or a PhD. Hazard of my job
Now, it could be an issue of common sense. I'm finding that to be exceedingly rare these days.
I think there are many different forms of intelligence, common sense being one of them. And, yes, it does seem to be far less common these days.
"Common sense" is just a collection of biases.
Sometimes they're the right biases, and sometimes they're not.
"Common sense" is approaching a problem in a logical manner.
It's not always the right approach to take. Sometimes brainstorming is better. Sometimes a wild-*kitten* guess works.
It is still a useful skill to have, and many people seem incapable of applying it.0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »I used to read the Eat This, Not That website ALL THE TIME. I still follow them on the twitter. Now when I read their articles, I realize it is all crap. It's all woo. They make things seem like something that they aren't. It's easy to understand if that is the noise you are hearing all the time....why dieting seems so confusing and so intimidating.
I don't know about "Eat This, Not That" as an entity, but I read articles, etc. like that all the time, and they're moronic.
"You want to have a nacho appetizer? The whole plate has 1,000 calories, x grams of sodium, and y grams fat!" (nevermind that you're likely sharing it with at least one other person) "Instead, have some celery sticks!"
"You're going out for pizza? The whole pizza has 2,500 calories! Have a side salad without the dressing instead!"
This is one of the things I never understood about these kinds of things... the "Eat This" food was rarely comparable.
What I knew about calories before MFP was that I was supposed to eat around 2000 of them a day and they were listed on food. I knew it was energy intake. I did not know that this 2000 calories would likely be mistaken and I certainly didn't know that I could eat whatever I wanted within my calorie limit and still lose weight.
It was good learning and applying these things.
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To me, the biggest problem with using CICO exclusively (meaning ignoring hunger cues) is that while CI can be measured quite accurately, CO can't. Not only is there the difficulty in calculating how many calories you are burning during a physical activity, there is the effect of that extra exercise or reduced caloric intake on your general activity level. The harder I exercise, the more deeply I rest at other times of the day. How are we ever going to be able to measure fidgeting?0
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lindsey1979 wrote: »Another good post. Thank you again Lindsey. This is why I tire of people saying, "you can eat whatever you want. I just fit " blah blah blah" into your calories.
Sometimes it's hard for people to see beyond their own perspective. Eating in moderation is easiest for some and not eating certain foods sounds painfully restrictive for them. For them, it wouldn't be as sustainable because they'd feel too deprived. Sometimes, such people, have a hard time understanding that people are different than them. That for others, the proposed path of moderation is much more difficult.
I personally can see it both ways. There are some things that I can eat in moderation rather easily, but there are others that are a great struggle for me. So I just tend to avoid them so I'm not tempted or don't have to fight the temptation. I'm a big fan of the sweet spot where you maximize results and minimize efforts -- understanding that differs for each person. And with so many wonderful, tasty things in this world, I don't do feel deprived at all in that respect.
And you both are just as guilty.
For me, the whole idea of "it's just CICO" finally clicked when I came here. I tried "eating clean", South Beach, Simply for Life, and others. I was also famous for "I just went to the gym so I can have this treat"
Just like we see different forms of dieting here, we see a wide style of responding on the boards. From the hand holding encouraging ones to kick in the *** drill sergeant ones. People tend to respond better to one style or the others. The CICO answer is no different. For some it will be a great answer, for others, not so much.
The beauty of MFP is that there are enough people responding with different perspectives that if "It's just CICO" doesn't click with you there will more than likely be others that provide more info. Or, as others pointed out, you can ask.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.
I think you're underestimating your friends. I think they do know what a calorie is. They just don't know how to apply it to themselves. That's where the "how" comes in.
no, i don't think i am...you are correct in that they don't know how to apply it to themselves which I already stated...but I've had many discussions with my friends...they don't even understand that a calorie is a unit of energy...i think you give too much credit to strangers that you don't even know. people in general are very ignorant of general nutrition...i was one of them once upon a time, and no...I didn't really know what a calorie was...it was just an number and meant nothing...hell, a nutritional label meant next to nothing to me once upon a time.
No, they don't know that it's a unit of energy. And they don't care.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.
I think you're underestimating your friends. I think they do know what a calorie is. They just don't know how to apply it to themselves. That's where the "how" comes in.
no, i don't think i am...you are correct in that they don't know how to apply it to themselves which I already stated...but I've had many discussions with my friends...they don't even understand that a calorie is a unit of energy...i think you give too much credit to strangers that you don't even know. people in general are very ignorant of general nutrition...i was one of them once upon a time, and no...I didn't really know what a calorie was...it was just an number and meant nothing...hell, a nutritional label meant next to nothing to me once upon a time.
No, they don't know that it's a unit of energy. And they don't care.
umm...so they're ignorant of what's going on then...that was the whole point...you're a piece of work...just one of many trolls on these boards I suppose0
This discussion has been closed.
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