Calories in and Calories Out. Is it really that simple?
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cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.
I think you're underestimating your friends. I think they do know what a calorie is. They just don't know how to apply it to themselves. That's where the "how" comes in.
no, i don't think i am...you are correct in that they don't know how to apply it to themselves which I already stated...but I've had many discussions with my friends...they don't even understand that a calorie is a unit of energy...i think you give too much credit to strangers that you don't even know. people in general are very ignorant of general nutrition...i was one of them once upon a time, and no...I didn't really know what a calorie was...it was just an number and meant nothing...hell, a nutritional label meant next to nothing to me once upon a time.
No, they don't know that it's a unit of energy. And they don't care.
What exactly do you think ignorance is?
I know what ignorance is. I didn't call anyone ignorant. What's your point?
Someone said your friends were ignorant and you said they weren't. But here's your quote. Ignorance isn't always an insult. It just means that someone doesn't have that particular knowledge. That's my point.
No one told me my friends were ignorant. And I didn't tell anyone else his friends were ignorant. You asked what exactly do I think ignorance is. And Wolfman called me a piece of work.
He sure did, right after he said your friends were ignorant and right before you said they aren't. Do you just argue with anything that's said even if it's in direct contradiction to what you just said two minutes ago?
No, Wolfman did not say my friends were ignorant. And, no I did not contradict him by saying they weren't.0 -
lindsey1979 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »In theory its simple, in practice it's not..similar to telling a smoker to "just stop smoking"..."Just CICO" or "Eat less, move more" is completely useless in terms of helpful information
It is rather a cope out answer.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to eat less and move.
A - Just eat less and move more.
Yep great advice.
Kinda like.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to successfully run a sub 30min 5k.
A - just run at 6.32 miles an hour.
It's not really like that, more like:
Q - I love this food and that but I can't eat it because it will make me fat, help me I need some willpower and someone to motivate me!
A - That's not necessary. You don't have to cut anything out. Just eat less and move more. It's all about the calories!
Q - How rude! Why are you so mean?? I thought this forum was intended to help others succeed! I'm outta here!
Don't forget the part where (A) is flagged, reported, and/or given a warning for hurting someone's feelings.
There are ways to do (A) respectfully and kindly. And there are ways to do (A) with mockery, ridicule and by demeaning or belittling people. The latter is wholly unnecessary, but some people here think that so long as you're honest, cruelty doesn't matter. That that is tough love.
And that's such a shame -- because when you attack people, they tend to shut down and not really listen, so it defeats the whole purpose (unless you just get off on being cruel -- which, sadly, I think is the aim for some people on MFP). Then there are others that are kind and respectful, and I think are genuinely appreciated and respected accordingly.
It's funny that you - someone who repeatedly demeans and belittles people, and attacks the intelligence of some of this forum's smartest posters - would say something like this.
This is gold right here.0 -
No, Wolfman did not say my friends were ignorant. And, no I did not contradict him by saying they weren't.
OK, well I can read. So you're either a troll or have short term memory loss.umm...so they're ignorant of what's going on then...that was the whole point...you're a piece of work...just one of many trolls on these boards I supposeNo, I did not say they were ignorant of what's going on. I said they don't care that a calorie is a unit of energy. That's all I said.
OK, maybe I lost track of WHOSE friends they are. Maybe they're his friends, maybe that was going to be your "Aha! Gotcha!" moment. All I was trying to say is that ignorance isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't know why you take such offense to that sentiment.
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*tu quoque intensifies*lindsey1979 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »In theory its simple, in practice it's not..similar to telling a smoker to "just stop smoking"..."Just CICO" or "Eat less, move more" is completely useless in terms of helpful information
It is rather a cope out answer.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to eat less and move.
A - Just eat less and move more.
Yep great advice.
Kinda like.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to successfully run a sub 30min 5k.
A - just run at 6.32 miles an hour.
It's not really like that, more like:
Q - I love this food and that but I can't eat it because it will make me fat, help me I need some willpower and someone to motivate me!
A - That's not necessary. You don't have to cut anything out. Just eat less and move more. It's all about the calories!
Q - How rude! Why are you so mean?? I thought this forum was intended to help others succeed! I'm outta here!
Don't forget the part where (A) is flagged, reported, and/or given a warning for hurting someone's feelings.
There are ways to do (A) respectfully and kindly. And there are ways to do (A) with mockery, ridicule and by demeaning or belittling people. The latter is wholly unnecessary, but some people here think that so long as you're honest, cruelty doesn't matter. That that is tough love.
And that's such a shame -- because when you attack people, they tend to shut down and not really listen, so it defeats the whole purpose (unless you just get off on being cruel -- which, sadly, I think is the aim for some people on MFP). Then there are others that are kind and respectful, and I think are genuinely appreciated and respected accordingly.
And what about your posts where you repeatedly insult the intelligence of other posters?
How about UltimateRBF, you just once stick to the posts at hand and stop all the flamebaiting and accusations? Comments like these of yours are exactly what starts all the fights. It's not helpful and its against the forum rules. Please respect the rules.
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So should we put it to a vote? Is it really that simple? All in favor, say aye.
Aye.0 -
Aye.0
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OK, maybe I lost track of WHOSE friends they are. Maybe they're his friends, maybe that was going to be your "Aha! Gotcha!" moment. All I was trying to say is that ignorance isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't know why you take such offense to that sentiment.
Just to clear up this confusion... cwolfman posted that his friends were ignorant to what a calorie really is, and basic nutrition here:cwolfman13 wrote: »Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.
And then faurotann said he is underestimating his friends, and then wolf man said no, they don't even understand that a calorie is a unit of energy, and then faurotann replied this:No, they don't know that it's a unit of energy. And they don't care.
So agreed with him that they don't know anything about CICO, thus agreeing with him.0 -
Aye0
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blankiefinder wrote: »No, Wolfman did not say my friends were ignorant. And, no I did not contradict him by saying they weren't.
OK, well I can read. So you're either a troll or have short term memory loss.umm...so they're ignorant of what's going on then...that was the whole point...you're a piece of work...just one of many trolls on these boards I supposeNo, I did not say they were ignorant of what's going on. I said they don't care that a calorie is a unit of energy. That's all I said.
OK, maybe I lost track of WHOSE friends they are. Maybe they're his friends, maybe that was going to be your "Aha! Gotcha!" moment. All I was trying to say is that ignorance isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't know why you take such offense to that sentiment.
Just to clear up this confusion... cwolfman posted that his friends were ignorant to what a calorie really is, and basic nutrition here:cwolfman13 wrote: »Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.
And then fautann said he is underestimating his friends, and then wolf man said no, they don't even understand that a calorie is a unit of energy, and then fautann replied this:No, they don't know that it's a unit of energy. And they don't care.
So agreed with him that they don't know anything about CICO, thus agreeing with him.
I am so confused now. LOL But this could have been avoided if it had been explained that I was misunderstanding something rather than pretend no one was discussing ignorance before I came along. My apologies.
ETA: Oh and thanks, @blankiefinder!0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »No, Wolfman did not say my friends were ignorant. And, no I did not contradict him by saying they weren't.
OK, well I can read. So you're either a troll or have short term memory loss.umm...so they're ignorant of what's going on then...that was the whole point...you're a piece of work...just one of many trolls on these boards I supposeNo, I did not say they were ignorant of what's going on. I said they don't care that a calorie is a unit of energy. That's all I said.
OK, maybe I lost track of WHOSE friends they are. Maybe they're his friends, maybe that was going to be your "Aha! Gotcha!" moment. All I was trying to say is that ignorance isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't know why you take such offense to that sentiment.
Just to clear up this confusion... cwolfman posted that his friends were ignorant to what a calorie really is, and basic nutrition here:cwolfman13 wrote: »Now there it is. This is a diet and fitness forum. People know what they want. They just don't know how to get there. Maybe, for limited number, CICO is a new concept. But I highly doubt it. As Lindsey put it, they are asking how to do it.
outside of my actual fitness friends, most of my friends have nary an idea of what a calorie actually is...to most it is an arbitrary number on a nutritional label and has very little meaning...and even if they have some inclining of what a calorie actually is, they have no idea how that number applies to them.
many, if not most people who join this forum are just as ignorant of basic nutrition as anyone in the real world which is why they think they have to do some specific diet or do a cleanse or take some magic pill or whatever...people are generally ignorant of basic nutrition.
telling someone to eat less and thus reduce their energy intake is a completely valid response.
And then fautann said he is underestimating his friends, and then wolf man said no, they don't even understand that a calorie is a unit of energy, and then fautann replied this:No, they don't know that it's a unit of energy. And they don't care.
So agreed with him that they don't know anything about CICO, thus agreeing with him.
I am so confused now. LOL But this could have been avoided if it had been explained that I was misunderstanding something rather than pretend no one was discussing ignorance before I came along. My apologies.
Can understand your confusion to due the lack of quoting.0 -
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*tu quoque intensifies*lindsey1979 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »In theory its simple, in practice it's not..similar to telling a smoker to "just stop smoking"..."Just CICO" or "Eat less, move more" is completely useless in terms of helpful information
It is rather a cope out answer.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to eat less and move.
A - Just eat less and move more.
Yep great advice.
Kinda like.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to successfully run a sub 30min 5k.
A - just run at 6.32 miles an hour.
It's not really like that, more like:
Q - I love this food and that but I can't eat it because it will make me fat, help me I need some willpower and someone to motivate me!
A - That's not necessary. You don't have to cut anything out. Just eat less and move more. It's all about the calories!
Q - How rude! Why are you so mean?? I thought this forum was intended to help others succeed! I'm outta here!
Don't forget the part where (A) is flagged, reported, and/or given a warning for hurting someone's feelings.
There are ways to do (A) respectfully and kindly. And there are ways to do (A) with mockery, ridicule and by demeaning or belittling people. The latter is wholly unnecessary, but some people here think that so long as you're honest, cruelty doesn't matter. That that is tough love.
And that's such a shame -- because when you attack people, they tend to shut down and not really listen, so it defeats the whole purpose (unless you just get off on being cruel -- which, sadly, I think is the aim for some people on MFP). Then there are others that are kind and respectful, and I think are genuinely appreciated and respected accordingly.
And what about your posts where you repeatedly insult the intelligence of other posters?
How about UltimateRBF, you just once stick to the posts at hand and stop all the flamebaiting and accusations? Comments like these of yours are exactly what starts all the fights. It's not helpful and its against the forum rules. Please respect the rules.
Wait! I can't find that on Earlnabbey's list.0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »This is the Eat This, Not That website. Read it and make your brain bleed. Like for reals.
http://www.eatthis.com/
I don't know, the first article I opened said tilapia is worse than bacon and doughnuts and that I shouldn't eat it. I hate tilapia. And if it's worse than bacon and doughnuts I'm assuming that means I should eat those instead. So far, I'm liking this site.
http://www.eatthis.com/tilapia-is-worse-than-bacon
*side eyes* LOL
I swear that site is a comedy routine to me now. Here are the article across the top:
1. The Ultimate One Day Detox
2. How Tilapia is Worse Than Bacon
3. 7 Best Foods For Rapid Weight Loss
4. 14 Days To Zero Belly - The Plan
5. Life Changing Food Swaps
So much woo. So much derp. And millions of people read that site. They have sold many many books. Blergh.
I read the Ultimate One Day Detox. I was a little confused but I was pretty sure one of the steps said to stop stressing over the box of cookies I just ate (probably because they suggested I not eat breakfast and go for a walk and drink some spa water) because stress is bad for weight loss.
So what I got from it so far is eat bacon, not tilapia. And when doing a detox skip breakfast and eat a box of cookies.
Still not seeing a problem here...
You should probably buy their book. Plop down 19.95 and you can learn the rest of their secrets to rapid weight loss success!!! Ta Da!
What a steal!0 -
It is a more specific type of ad hominem (attacking the person's character, rather than argument).3dogsrunning wrote: »
*tu quoque intensifies*lindsey1979 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »lindsey1979 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »In theory its simple, in practice it's not..similar to telling a smoker to "just stop smoking"..."Just CICO" or "Eat less, move more" is completely useless in terms of helpful information
It is rather a cope out answer.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to eat less and move.
A - Just eat less and move more.
Yep great advice.
Kinda like.
Q - I need advice and tips on how to successfully run a sub 30min 5k.
A - just run at 6.32 miles an hour.
It's not really like that, more like:
Q - I love this food and that but I can't eat it because it will make me fat, help me I need some willpower and someone to motivate me!
A - That's not necessary. You don't have to cut anything out. Just eat less and move more. It's all about the calories!
Q - How rude! Why are you so mean?? I thought this forum was intended to help others succeed! I'm outta here!
Don't forget the part where (A) is flagged, reported, and/or given a warning for hurting someone's feelings.
There are ways to do (A) respectfully and kindly. And there are ways to do (A) with mockery, ridicule and by demeaning or belittling people. The latter is wholly unnecessary, but some people here think that so long as you're honest, cruelty doesn't matter. That that is tough love.
And that's such a shame -- because when you attack people, they tend to shut down and not really listen, so it defeats the whole purpose (unless you just get off on being cruel -- which, sadly, I think is the aim for some people on MFP). Then there are others that are kind and respectful, and I think are genuinely appreciated and respected accordingly.
And what about your posts where you repeatedly insult the intelligence of other posters?
How about UltimateRBF, you just once stick to the posts at hand and stop all the flamebaiting and accusations? Comments like these of yours are exactly what starts all the fights. It's not helpful and its against the forum rules. Please respect the rules.
Wait! I can't find that on Earlnabbey's list.0 -
goldthistime wrote: »To me, the biggest problem with using CICO exclusively (meaning ignoring hunger cues) is that while CI can be measured quite accurately, CO can't. Not only is there the difficulty in calculating how many calories you are burning during a physical activity, there is the effect of that extra exercise or reduced caloric intake on your general activity level. The harder I exercise, the more deeply I rest at other times of the day. How are we ever going to be able to measure fidgeting?
Bodymedia fit does a pretty good job. Heck even the apple watch isn't too far off. Like any instrument, these things might consistently estimate a little high or a little low but it's the relative expenditure from day to day that you want to adjust up and you can do that with these tools.
As for measuring CI and CO as a goal, those numbers aren't what matters. It's the value of CI - CO that matters, and that you can easily get with your scale and a trend chart.
Osric0 -
lindsey1979 wrote: »And that's such a shame -- because when you attack people, they tend to shut down and not really listen, so it defeats the whole purpose (unless you just get off on being cruel -- which, sadly, I think is the aim for some people on MFP).
I prefer Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Rather than assuming these posters are "getting off" on being cruel, consider that they are probably just bad at communicating effectively. (Stupidity might also explain some of what they're trying to communicate, too.)
Osric
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flippy1234 wrote: »If so, then what is all of this other nonsense?
It's ways to make money off the ill-informed in a multi-billion dollar industry. It's been around for centuries.0
This discussion has been closed.
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