Pavlok
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alilfluffy wrote: »"A person who has been punished is not less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment."
B. F. Skinner
Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.0 -
I don't understand why people do or refrain from doing something because something buzzes their skin, but I know lots of people do more exercise because their fitbit buzzes them, so who knows? Maybe it will help.
Me, I stay in my calories and do my exercising because I want to do those things. If I didn't want to do them, no amount of skin taps, buzzes or baby shocks would make me. Furthermore, if I felt like overeating, I wouldn't tell the thing to zap me.
If you have the power to force yourself to be zapped, I think that surely you have the power to not overeat. Yes? No?
If you do it, I hope it works for you.
For once, I totally agree with you here.0 -
An elastic band around your wrist is not meant to be a "self harming" device. A lot of clinical therapists will do the elastic band thing as aversion therapy. It is supposed to attach a negative connotation with an act. If you feel you are going to eat something that will not fit into your allowance, you are supposed to snap the elastic and say something to yourself. It is basically a "snap out of it!" reminder.
For some people they need the buzz or sting of the rubber band to remind them that the behavior is not a positive behavior. One of the reasons people are overweight because they do not have the willpower to turn down food and overeat. Not all people can gather the willpower (especially at first , to make the right choices).
I don't think it needs to be taken as far as a shock bracelet, however.0 -
Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.
I agree with you. I watched the promotional video of the woman who gave up sugar and started going to the gym 5x a week (how the device shocked her into going to the gym wasn't explained!). I fail to see how the device works with the food "sugar" is in so very many foods, from bananas to sweet chili sauce. I don't think the device is working via conditioning. The behaviour = eating. We have to eat. Therefore, the device isn't "conditioning" anything. Binging is still eating, it's the emotions attached to it that are problematic (the behaviour is, but it's secondary, if that makes sense).
The smoking and other examples? Hm. Possibly.
I think it's more a mindfulness device, but a nasty one. Better to learn lovely mindfulness!!
A placebo effect going on too, possibly. It looks all tech and tech = science! = must work.
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Sounds like a dog shock collar. I'll pass.0
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queenliz99 wrote: »Lis, like this?
SNORT! FTW!0 -
Depends on which criminal justice system. American hasn't. Sweden, on the other hand, seems to have a model based on rehabilitation. The result is that in the "high security" prison that includes murderers, when they were left with their cells accidentally not locked one night, all of the prisoners got out of their cells ... and baked cookies.alilfluffy wrote: »"A person who has been punished is not less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment."
B. F. Skinner
Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.0 -
Depends on which criminal justice system. American hasn't. Sweden, on the other hand, seems to have a model based on rehabilitation. The result is that in the "high security" prison that includes murderers, when they were left with their cells accidentally not locked one night, all of the prisoners got out of their cells ... and baked cookies.alilfluffy wrote: »"A person who has been punished is not less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment."
B. F. Skinner
Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.
Oh I was definitely thinking of my own messed up country's system. USA. Yeah. Sigh.alilfluffy wrote: »Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.
I agree with you. I watched the promotional video of the woman who gave up sugar and started going to the gym 5x a week (how the device shocked her into going to the gym wasn't explained!). I fail to see how the device works with the food "sugar" is in so very many foods, from bananas to sweet chili sauce. I don't think the device is working via conditioning. The behaviour = eating. We have to eat. Therefore, the device isn't "conditioning" anything. Binging is still eating, it's the emotions attached to it that are problematic (the behaviour is, but it's secondary, if that makes sense).
The smoking and other examples? Hm. Possibly.
I think it's more a mindfulness device, but a nasty one. Better to learn lovely mindfulness!!
A placebo effect going on too, possibly. It looks all tech and tech = science! = must work.
That makes me think about how I'd love to have a nice, pretty bracelet made from an image of a mountain range in a country I want to travel and live in someday. I know I'll never get out of here if I'm not fit and healthy and happy with myself. Now that would be a great reminder. Goal bracelet, not shock bracelet.
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As much as I don't care for the book / movie, has no one seen A Clockwork Orange? The whole point of the story is that classical conditioning doesn't really work when dealing with humans. Sure, you can stick someone with an involuntary reaction to certain stimuli, but you don't really change who the person fundamentally is.
Using a device or pain stimulus to do the same with food will have the same effect. You might fool your body into reacting against certain foods, but you won't have fundamentally changed your relationship with food, you'll just have to deal with a higher hurdle to eating them.0 -
As much as I don't care for the book / movie, has no one seen A Clockwork Orange? The whole point of the story is that classical conditioning doesn't really work when dealing with humans. Sure, you can stick someone with an involuntary reaction to certain stimuli, but you don't really change who the person fundamentally is.
Using a device or pain stimulus to do the same with food will have the same effect. You might fool your body into reacting against certain foods, but you won't have fundamentally changed your relationship with food, you'll just have to deal with a higher hurdle to eating them.
seen it, loved the soundtrack0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »As much as I don't care for the book / movie, has no one seen A Clockwork Orange? The whole point of the story is that classical conditioning doesn't really work when dealing with humans. Sure, you can stick someone with an involuntary reaction to certain stimuli, but you don't really change who the person fundamentally is.
Using a device or pain stimulus to do the same with food will have the same effect. You might fool your body into reacting against certain foods, but you won't have fundamentally changed your relationship with food, you'll just have to deal with a higher hurdle to eating them.
seen it, loved the soundtrack
Will you Tell me more about the soundtrack, or does that request sound like an overture?0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »As much as I don't care for the book / movie, has no one seen A Clockwork Orange? The whole point of the story is that classical conditioning doesn't really work when dealing with humans. Sure, you can stick someone with an involuntary reaction to certain stimuli, but you don't really change who the person fundamentally is.
Using a device or pain stimulus to do the same with food will have the same effect. You might fool your body into reacting against certain foods, but you won't have fundamentally changed your relationship with food, you'll just have to deal with a higher hurdle to eating them.
seen it, loved the soundtrack
Will you Tell me more about the soundtrack, or does that request sound like an overture?
do Tell0 -
Curious if anyone in this thread is getting the Pavlov connection (which had NOTHING to do with harm). This is a call/response mechanism approach to behavior therapy.
Curious as well: why would you think people don't get it? It's a pretty old concept.
The OP clearly said she caused bruising by snapping rubber bands on her wrists, which is harmful.
Because call/response has nothing to do with harm. Someone decided to add in that bit but it could be any response, really.
What? The OP said she used rubber bands on her wrists, which caused bruising. That is physical harm.0 -
jennifer_417 wrote: »If you mean Pavlov, then yes, behavioral conditioning is very effective. However, pairing a unpleasant stimulus with food probably isn't a good idea, because food isn't bad, and that's likely to lead to some seriously disorded thinking.
Try pairing a pleasant stimulus with desirable behaviors. For instance, I used to buy myself an inexpensive pair of earrings for every 5 lbs I lost. I love earrings, so it made me want to do the desirable behavior, which was eat less.
ETA: I didn't realize that Pavlok was a thing, so I assumed it was a typo, esp with the rubber band thing. I'm finishing up a Bachelor's in Psychology right now, so perhaps it is a pardonable error. I stand by the rest of what I said, though.
And here we go, well said. This is exactly what makes that kind of behavior harmful.0
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