Pavlok
SnackySnackPants
Posts: 35 Member
Has anybody preordered this? I'm intrigued. I have no self control with mindless snacking or binging. It seems interesting.
Though I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises, and that hasn't helped, perhaps this won't either, lol.
Though I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises, and that hasn't helped, perhaps this won't either, lol.
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SnackySnackPants wrote: »Has anybody preordered this? I'm intrigued. I have no self control with mindless snacking or binging. It seems interesting.
Though I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises, and that hasn't helped, perhaps this won't either, lol.
The snapping of rubber bands on your wrist is actually a really concerning behavior. It is actually a form of self injury, especially if you are doing it as "punishment". You should really seek some professional help.0 -
While interesting, I'd have to think it's a crutch to a point. In other words, if you wear it, you get the shock. However if you don't, you and your brain will sense that and take advantage while it may not be on. Habitual behavior change should be a voluntary stimulus based on a conscious decision you've made, not because you're being shocked to adhering to that behavior, IMO. Or else you may have to wear it the rest of your life. Hence, it could be a crutch.
Not saying it can't work, just my viewpoint on it.
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You should do some reading into why Pavlov's research proved what it did. I don't think self-harming has anything to do with it.0
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The best way (in my opinion of course) is to log before eating. Even if you do end up mindlessly snacking, just log it first. That way you will give yourself half a second to pause and thing if it's really what you want. Eventually, you will think "Hmm I want chips but it's not worth the calories so nah"
Hurting yourself because you have eaten "bad food" sounds like a gateway to an eating disorder. Food isn't bad and you need to learn to eat in moderation without associating pain or demons to certain types of food or amounts of food.0 -
SnackySnackPants wrote: »Has anybody preordered this? I'm intrigued. I have no self control with mindless snacking or binging. It seems interesting.
Though I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises, and that hasn't helped, perhaps this won't either, lol.
The snapping of rubber bands on your wrist is actually a really concerning behavior. It is actually a form of self injury, especially if you are doing it as "punishment". You should really seek some professional help.
Have been for 15ish years (food, mh, sh, etc.) The rubberbands are a harmless way to cope with some issues instead of sh, it just didn't catch with the food, lol.
I thought it seemed like an interesting concept and thought I'd see other opinions, but from a bad rap from the get go on here, I'd definitely take that into consideration. You guys and gals know what you're talking about
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Actually it is not "harmless". It is still self harm.
This coming from someone who suffered with self harm for years.0 -
SnackySnackPants wrote: »SnackySnackPants wrote: »Has anybody preordered this? I'm intrigued. I have no self control with mindless snacking or binging. It seems interesting.
Though I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises, and that hasn't helped, perhaps this won't either, lol.
The snapping of rubber bands on your wrist is actually a really concerning behavior. It is actually a form of self injury, especially if you are doing it as "punishment". You should really seek some professional help.
Have been for 15ish years (food, mh, sh, etc.) The rubberbands are a harmless way to cope with some issues instead of sh, it just didn't catch with the food, lol.
I thought it seemed like an interesting concept and thought I'd see other opinions, but from a bad rap from the get go on here, I'd definitely take that into consideration. You guys and gals know what you're talking about
Actually, punishing yourself for anything is unhealthy. This behavior is never never okay:I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises
Have you looked into formal counseling for your issues around food?0 -
I don't understand why people do or refrain from doing something because something buzzes their skin, but I know lots of people do more exercise because their fitbit buzzes them, so who knows? Maybe it will help.
Me, I stay in my calories and do my exercising because I want to do those things. If I didn't want to do them, no amount of skin taps, buzzes or baby shocks would make me. Furthermore, if I felt like overeating, I wouldn't tell the thing to zap me.
If you have the power to force yourself to be zapped, I think that surely you have the power to not overeat. Yes? No?
If you do it, I hope it works for you.0 -
SnackySnackPants wrote: »SnackySnackPants wrote: »Has anybody preordered this? I'm intrigued. I have no self control with mindless snacking or binging. It seems interesting.
Though I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises, and that hasn't helped, perhaps this won't either, lol.
The snapping of rubber bands on your wrist is actually a really concerning behavior. It is actually a form of self injury, especially if you are doing it as "punishment". You should really seek some professional help.
Have been for 15ish years (food, mh, sh, etc.) The rubberbands are a harmless way to cope with some issues instead of sh, it just didn't catch with the food, lol.
I thought it seemed like an interesting concept and thought I'd see other opinions, but from a bad rap from the get go on here, I'd definitely take that into consideration. You guys and gals know what you're talking about
Actually, punishing yourself for anything is unhealthy. This behavior is never never okay:I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises
Have you looked into formal counseling for your issues around food?
15 years, as I said... nobody wore a tophat, but I assume it was more formal than a homeless guy on the bridge, lol.
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SnackySnackPants wrote: »SnackySnackPants wrote: »SnackySnackPants wrote: »Has anybody preordered this? I'm intrigued. I have no self control with mindless snacking or binging. It seems interesting.
Though I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises, and that hasn't helped, perhaps this won't either, lol.
The snapping of rubber bands on your wrist is actually a really concerning behavior. It is actually a form of self injury, especially if you are doing it as "punishment". You should really seek some professional help.
Have been for 15ish years (food, mh, sh, etc.) The rubberbands are a harmless way to cope with some issues instead of sh, it just didn't catch with the food, lol.
I thought it seemed like an interesting concept and thought I'd see other opinions, but from a bad rap from the get go on here, I'd definitely take that into consideration. You guys and gals know what you're talking about
Actually, punishing yourself for anything is unhealthy. This behavior is never never okay:I have tried snapping rubber bands on my wrist every time I eat or think of food past the formation of bruises
Have you looked into formal counseling for your issues around food?
15 years, as I said... nobody wore a tophat, but I assume it was more formal than a homeless guy on the bridge, lol.
When I was recovering from bulimia years ago, I went through one-on-one counseling and group therapy where the group of women were all recovering from bulimia. This is the type of scenario I mean: have you worked with a counselor who specializes in food and self-harm issues? Have you been in any group of people who suffer with food issues?
I don't understand what you mean by this:15 years, as I said... nobody wore a tophat, but I assume it was more formal than a homeless guy on the bridge,
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It was just a joke... tophats are formal... I'll be frank, I've had a couple beers and I thought it was humorous.
Yes, over half of my life I have seen therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists who specialize in dysthmia, self harm, and bulimia. I've had limited group therapy, some, but most of it has been 1-1. In my late teens/early 20s, I learned the rubberband trick. A lot less harmful than cutting. It has helped me a lot. I didn't know it was a big issue. As I said, I was just curious about opinions on this tech bracelet that I saw. I didn't think it would be an issue and I didn't know I would have to justify my questions. I apologize, feel free to delete this question. I'll just log off now. I apologize for the topic.0 -
SnackySnackPants wrote: »It was just a joke... tophats are formal... I'll be frank, I've had a couple beers and I thought it was humorous.
Oh. LOL!Yes, over half of my life I have seen therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists who specialize in dysthmia, self harm, and bulimia. I've had limited group therapy, some, but most of it has been 1-1. In my late teens/early 20s, I learned the rubberband trick. A lot less harmful than cutting. It has helped me a lot. I didn't know it was a big issue. As I said, I was just curious about opinions on this tech bracelet that I saw. I didn't think it would be an issue and I didn't know I would have to justify my questions. I apologize, feel free to delete this question. I'll just log off now. I apologize for the topic.
Please...please, don't apologize. Conversation is important for clarification issues, and thanks for clarifying what you were trying to say. Good luck!
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Curious if anyone in this thread is getting the Pavlov connection (which had NOTHING to do with harm). This is a call/response mechanism approach to behavior therapy.0
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Curious if anyone in this thread is getting the Pavlov connection (which had NOTHING to do with harm). This is a call/response mechanism approach to behavior therapy.
Curious as well: why would you think people don't get it? It's a pretty old concept.
The OP clearly said she caused bruising by snapping rubber bands on her wrists, which is harmful.0 -
Please, Please stop with the elastic band thing
Why should you punish yourself for being a human being and craving food? You can learn self control without practicing self punishment. Allow yourself a little of everything you enjoy in moderation - that is self control. Using an elastic band to slap against your wrist every time your craving is a slippery road to be going down. This is self harm for the sake of craving and it's worrying. Ditch the band, find your willpower of steel and be a little kinder to yourself. If you DO find yourself eating over your deficit, log it and move on0 -
Curious if anyone in this thread is getting the Pavlov connection (which had NOTHING to do with harm). This is a call/response mechanism approach to behavior therapy.
Curious as well: why would you think people don't get it? It's a pretty old concept.
The OP clearly said she caused bruising by snapping rubber bands on her wrists, which is harmful.
Because call/response has nothing to do with harm. Someone decided to add in that bit but it could be any response, really.0 -
Oooh I just googled it. How awesome!!! I'm thinking it'd be great for my nail biting. Depending on how expensive it is0
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Ps I tried to do the rubber band snappy thing when I quit smoking. It didn't really work well for me. Cold turkey a few years later worked better0
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If you mean Pavlov, then yes, behavioral conditioning is very effective. However, pairing a unpleasant stimulus with food probably isn't a good idea, because food isn't bad, and that's likely to lead to some seriously disorded thinking.
Try pairing a pleasant stimulus with desirable behaviors. For instance, I used to buy myself an inexpensive pair of earrings for every 5 lbs I lost. I love earrings, so it made me want to do the desirable behavior, which was eat less.
ETA: I didn't realize that Pavlok was a thing, so I assumed it was a typo, esp with the rubber band thing. I'm finishing up a Bachelor's in Psychology right now, so perhaps it is a pardonable error. I stand by the rest of what I said, though.0 -
"A person who has been punished is not less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment."
B. F. Skinner
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alilfluffy wrote: »"A person who has been punished is not less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment."
B. F. Skinner
Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.0 -
I don't understand why people do or refrain from doing something because something buzzes their skin, but I know lots of people do more exercise because their fitbit buzzes them, so who knows? Maybe it will help.
Me, I stay in my calories and do my exercising because I want to do those things. If I didn't want to do them, no amount of skin taps, buzzes or baby shocks would make me. Furthermore, if I felt like overeating, I wouldn't tell the thing to zap me.
If you have the power to force yourself to be zapped, I think that surely you have the power to not overeat. Yes? No?
If you do it, I hope it works for you.
For once, I totally agree with you here.0 -
An elastic band around your wrist is not meant to be a "self harming" device. A lot of clinical therapists will do the elastic band thing as aversion therapy. It is supposed to attach a negative connotation with an act. If you feel you are going to eat something that will not fit into your allowance, you are supposed to snap the elastic and say something to yourself. It is basically a "snap out of it!" reminder.
For some people they need the buzz or sting of the rubber band to remind them that the behavior is not a positive behavior. One of the reasons people are overweight because they do not have the willpower to turn down food and overeat. Not all people can gather the willpower (especially at first , to make the right choices).
I don't think it needs to be taken as far as a shock bracelet, however.0 -
Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.
I agree with you. I watched the promotional video of the woman who gave up sugar and started going to the gym 5x a week (how the device shocked her into going to the gym wasn't explained!). I fail to see how the device works with the food "sugar" is in so very many foods, from bananas to sweet chili sauce. I don't think the device is working via conditioning. The behaviour = eating. We have to eat. Therefore, the device isn't "conditioning" anything. Binging is still eating, it's the emotions attached to it that are problematic (the behaviour is, but it's secondary, if that makes sense).
The smoking and other examples? Hm. Possibly.
I think it's more a mindfulness device, but a nasty one. Better to learn lovely mindfulness!!
A placebo effect going on too, possibly. It looks all tech and tech = science! = must work.
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Sounds like a dog shock collar. I'll pass.0
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queenliz99 wrote: »Lis, like this?
SNORT! FTW!0 -
Depends on which criminal justice system. American hasn't. Sweden, on the other hand, seems to have a model based on rehabilitation. The result is that in the "high security" prison that includes murderers, when they were left with their cells accidentally not locked one night, all of the prisoners got out of their cells ... and baked cookies.alilfluffy wrote: »"A person who has been punished is not less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment."
B. F. Skinner
Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.0 -
Depends on which criminal justice system. American hasn't. Sweden, on the other hand, seems to have a model based on rehabilitation. The result is that in the "high security" prison that includes murderers, when they were left with their cells accidentally not locked one night, all of the prisoners got out of their cells ... and baked cookies.alilfluffy wrote: »"A person who has been punished is not less inclined to behave in a given way; at best, he learns how to avoid punishment."
B. F. Skinner
Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.
Oh I was definitely thinking of my own messed up country's system. USA. Yeah. Sigh.alilfluffy wrote: »Too bad the criminal justice system never read Skinner. But anyways, yeah. I think a reminder bracelet for implementing healthful eating and exercise habits could be nice at first, to mentally signal 'hey, there is a good and healthy reason to resist a specific impulse.' A shock bracelet? I don't see the point.
I agree with you. I watched the promotional video of the woman who gave up sugar and started going to the gym 5x a week (how the device shocked her into going to the gym wasn't explained!). I fail to see how the device works with the food "sugar" is in so very many foods, from bananas to sweet chili sauce. I don't think the device is working via conditioning. The behaviour = eating. We have to eat. Therefore, the device isn't "conditioning" anything. Binging is still eating, it's the emotions attached to it that are problematic (the behaviour is, but it's secondary, if that makes sense).
The smoking and other examples? Hm. Possibly.
I think it's more a mindfulness device, but a nasty one. Better to learn lovely mindfulness!!
A placebo effect going on too, possibly. It looks all tech and tech = science! = must work.
That makes me think about how I'd love to have a nice, pretty bracelet made from an image of a mountain range in a country I want to travel and live in someday. I know I'll never get out of here if I'm not fit and healthy and happy with myself. Now that would be a great reminder. Goal bracelet, not shock bracelet.
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As much as I don't care for the book / movie, has no one seen A Clockwork Orange? The whole point of the story is that classical conditioning doesn't really work when dealing with humans. Sure, you can stick someone with an involuntary reaction to certain stimuli, but you don't really change who the person fundamentally is.
Using a device or pain stimulus to do the same with food will have the same effect. You might fool your body into reacting against certain foods, but you won't have fundamentally changed your relationship with food, you'll just have to deal with a higher hurdle to eating them.0
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