carbs
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Fruit_lover2 wrote: »i hear all the time that carbs are bad. why is that?
Because tribalism around macro-nutrients is easier to rouse action and compliance than actually sitting down with someone and explaining to them even the short form of what modern nutrition science shows.0 -
Around half of all people have some sort of insulin resistance. For those people, higher amounts of carbs can be a bad thing. I find they hurt my health and make it easier to gain weight.
For the other half of the population, carbs don't appear to hurt their health.
Half? Pretty sure you haven't proven that claim.
OP, carbs are fine, unless your doctor tells you otherwise. Best wishes.
There you go
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10889785
There are population groups and areas where insulin resistance is now at 50% of the population.
And good luck to you too.0 -
Fruit_lover2 wrote: »i hear all the time that carbs are bad. why is that?
Because tribalism around macro-nutrients is easier to rouse action and compliance than actually sitting down with someone and explaining to them even the short form of what modern nutrition science shows.
"modern nutrition science" is many things, a fact of which you are, or should be, well aware.
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That's from 2,000, making predictions about 2025, and isn't really saying anywhere near 50% world population becoming insulin resistant. I don't even see it giving a number for insulin resistant.Around half of all people have some sort of insulin resistance. For those people, higher amounts of carbs can be a bad thing. I find they hurt my health and make it easier to gain weight.
For the other half of the population, carbs don't appear to hurt their health.
Half? Pretty sure you haven't proven that claim.
OP, carbs are fine, unless your doctor tells you otherwise. Best wishes.
There you go
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10889785
There are population groups and areas where insulin resistance is now at 50% of the population.
And good luck to you too.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »Around half of all people have some sort of insulin resistance. For those people, higher amounts of carbs can be a bad thing. I find they hurt my health and make it easier to gain weight.
For the other half of the population, carbs don't appear to hurt their health.
Half? Pretty sure you haven't proven that claim.
OP, carbs are fine, unless your doctor tells you otherwise. Best wishes.
Nope, haven't proven it. It was an estimation. Insulin resistance would include prediabetes, T2D, PCOS, NAFLD, and some dementia. I'm guessing that is about half, probably largely the older half, but around half.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/half-of-us-adults-have-diabetes-or-high-risk-prediabetes/
If anything, you probably estimated too low! 52% have diabetes or prediabetes. And that does not even include those with PCOS or other conditions.
More than half the population has a very significant reason to reduce carbs.
The numbers are based on changes made to diagnosing pre-diabetes. I've listened to one specialist on it remark that the new criteria are poor because they're now using A1C to determine pre-diabetes and while there is evidence for A1C scores diagnosing diabetes, there is no strong evidence that the scores they're using actually predict someone being close to diabetes. As he stated, the only strong predictor of diabetes, enough in his opinion to warrant the term pre-diabetic, is a glucose challenge, but no one wants to do glucose challenges because they require hours of testing. So instead the recommendation has become A1C that is just a once, quick blood draw.
I read something in the past week about a researcher doing glucose challenge but measuring abnormal insulin response and his testing yielding an even higher number of diabetics than the older standards you are dismissing. Scary stuff on the quantity of folks out there who are unable to eat high levels of carbs without damaging their long term health!
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So, this is where I get confused when stats like this are bandied round
Which came first? Insulin resistance or being overweight?
What proportion of people who lose the weight, by any means, are insulin resistant or even pre-diabetic
Is it causative or correlation?
You can be thin and insulin resistant, fat and insulin sensitive and all stations in between.
In one analysis civil servants with a certain diet profile were much more likely to become diabetic and were also more overweight, likely to smoke etc etc. In the highest quartile 10% of them became diabetic compared to 3.6% in the lowest quartile. In this case I think we would assume the diet profile led to the deterioration of health as all of the corrections for other factors did not eliminate the trend.
I'm a bit surprised by the diet profile.
"We identified a dietary pattern characterized by high consumption of low-calorie/diet soft drinks, onions, sugar-sweetened beverages, burgers and sausages, crisps and other snacks, and white bread and low consumption of medium-/high-fiber breakfast cereals, jam, French dressing/vinaigrette, and wholemeal bread. "
Onions? Low consumption of jam and French dressing?
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This thing with carbs is out of control. People (some people) don't even know what carbs are, and do eat them, but swear that they don't because they stopped eating pasta and sweets.
I thought it was just an MFP thing, but it's not.
Whatever works for them. A lot of people like food fads: low-carb, gluten-free, whathaveyou. They're not serious about weight loss or a nutritious diet, it's just something they like doing and chatting about. These people are almost always in the Normal BMI range and tending toward thin. It's just fun for them. They gain and lose the same 5-15 pounds over and over.
I have bigger fish to fry than getting the Diet Hobbyists to learn about carbs or Vitamin K or whatever. I need more than the fluff of dieting. I need a healthier diet and to lose more weight. And I need those things For Real, not for fun.0 -
Fruit_lover2 wrote: »i hear all the time that carbs are bad. why is that?
Because tribalism around macro-nutrients is easier to rouse action and compliance than actually sitting down with someone and explaining to them even the short form of what modern nutrition science shows.
"modern nutrition science" is many things, a fact of which you are, or should be, well aware.
It covers many topics, but the basics of macro and micro nutritions combined with some sensible recommendations about foods that provide them is pretty small and very strongly evidence based.
To say that modern physics covers topics from thermodynamics to optics to quantum mechanics to astrophysics and gravity doesn't mean you can't give someone a quick overview of what physics intends to study and that much of the basis starts from the fundamental laws of motion and conservation of energy.
There's a huge gulf between "this area needs more research" and "well it isn't proven to my satisfaction, therefore I propose magic elves sow your pants tighter in the night and that's what truly causes weight gain."0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »Around half of all people have some sort of insulin resistance. For those people, higher amounts of carbs can be a bad thing. I find they hurt my health and make it easier to gain weight.
For the other half of the population, carbs don't appear to hurt their health.
Half? Pretty sure you haven't proven that claim.
OP, carbs are fine, unless your doctor tells you otherwise. Best wishes.
Nope, haven't proven it. It was an estimation. Insulin resistance would include prediabetes, T2D, PCOS, NAFLD, and some dementia. I'm guessing that is about half, probably largely the older half, but around half.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/half-of-us-adults-have-diabetes-or-high-risk-prediabetes/
If anything, you probably estimated too low! 52% have diabetes or prediabetes. And that does not even include those with PCOS or other conditions.
More than half the population has a very significant reason to reduce carbs.
The numbers are based on changes made to diagnosing pre-diabetes. I've listened to one specialist on it remark that the new criteria are poor because they're now using A1C to determine pre-diabetes and while there is evidence for A1C scores diagnosing diabetes, there is no strong evidence that the scores they're using actually predict someone being close to diabetes. As he stated, the only strong predictor of diabetes, enough in his opinion to warrant the term pre-diabetic, is a glucose challenge, but no one wants to do glucose challenges because they require hours of testing. So instead the recommendation has become A1C that is just a once, quick blood draw.
I read something in the past week about a researcher doing glucose challenge but measuring abnormal insulin response and his testing yielding an even higher number of diabetics than the older standards you are dismissing. Scary stuff on the quantity of folks out there who are unable to eat high levels of carbs without damaging their long term health!
It would be interesting to see that research. I'd imagine it has issues with the population selected. Generally speaking, if someone isn't yet obese or has other confounds or concerns, the typical physician's office's reply to glucose challenge requests is "ain't nobody got time for 'dat."0 -
This thing with carbs is out of control. People (some people) don't even know what carbs are, and do eat them, but swear that they don't because they stopped eating pasta and sweets.
I thought it was just an MFP thing, but it's not.
Whatever works for them. A lot of people like food fads: low-carb, gluten-free, whathaveyou. They're not serious about weight loss or a nutritious diet, it's just something they like doing and chatting about. These people are almost always in the Normal BMI range and tending toward thin. It's just fun for them. They gain and lose the same 5-15 pounds over and over.
I have bigger fish to fry than getting the Diet Hobbyists to learn about carbs or Vitamin K or whatever. I need more than the fluff of dieting. I need a healthier diet and to lose more weight. And I need those things For Real, not for fun.
Actually, I think the scarier thing is that MFP has a good chance of representing the more aware parts of the population, at least any person who's been here a short time. I think Jimmy Kimmel has a pretty funny video of his street interviewing people asking people "what's gluten" and seeing how many people avoid it but don't know what it is.0 -
I am still guessing that roughly half of Americans is affected by some form of insulin resistance attacking the liver (NAFLD), reproductive organs (PCOS), brain (alzheimer's) or other parts of the body. My guess is that at least half of all people will experience IR in their lifetime.
Diabetes: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/ Over 9% of the UA has T2D and over 27% has prediabetes. Over a quarter of all seniors have T2D... Wonder what prediabetes shoots up to in this group?
NAFLD: Close to a third of Americans have hepatic steatosis and NAFLD. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23703888
PCOS: Roughly 5-10% of women have PCOS. https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/PCOS/conditioninfo/Pages/risk.aspx
Alzheimer's: 1 in 3 seniors dies with Alzheimer's or dementia. it is the 6th leading cause of death in th US. http://www.alz.org/facts/ I do disagree that it can not be slowed though as a ketogenic has been shown to do this (for many).
Coronary Artery Disease: Many doctors think CAD is caused in part by IR. http://www.jci.org/articles/view/10762 Considering 1 in 4 die from CAD, neverind those living with CAD, IR is affecting many people.
There is a lot of overlap between these diseases, but they don't all overlap. I just had one problem (prediabetes). I have two family friends who have developed alzheimers without T2D. I bet that is about 50%. About.
IR is a real problem. Those with IR have been shown to usually have improved health on a lower carb diet. Yes, some do fine on a moderate carb diet, but not all. Higher carbs is generally a problem for those with IR. Those without IR do fine with higher carb diets. The problem comes if you are predisposed to IR and develop it without knowing immediately. I guess that is often the case or there wouldn't be so many people who suddenly discover they have T2D, NAFLD or PCOS.
For healthy people, I see eating high carb as a risk. Even if you don't gain weight on a high carb diet, you could be affecting your long term health. Considering that carbs do not add any essential nutrients to a diet, I think it is best to not make carbs a majority of anyone's diet. People don't need to cut carbs to a minimum like I did, but keeping it below 30% makes sense to me.
JMO0 -
I'm not sure there is conclusive proof of the above, it sounds rather like conspiracy theory. Also the causative relationship troubles me...whereas, and I may be misreading here, you seem to be implying that IR is the cause of obesity and not a result of being overweight
The medical picture is interesting ...There is much we do not know..I even read a theory that Lyme disease could be connected to many of these types of neurological ailments, including Alzheimer's0 -
I watch him and I saw that. I forgot all about it until just now. It was funny in it's absurdity.This thing with carbs is out of control. People (some people) don't even know what carbs are, and do eat them, but swear that they don't because they stopped eating pasta and sweets.
I thought it was just an MFP thing, but it's not.
Whatever works for them. A lot of people like food fads: low-carb, gluten-free, whathaveyou. They're not serious about weight loss or a nutritious diet, it's just something they like doing and chatting about. These people are almost always in the Normal BMI range and tending toward thin. It's just fun for them. They gain and lose the same 5-15 pounds over and over.
I have bigger fish to fry than getting the Diet Hobbyists to learn about carbs or Vitamin K or whatever. I need more than the fluff of dieting. I need a healthier diet and to lose more weight. And I need those things For Real, not for fun.
Actually, I think the scarier thing is that MFP has a good chance of representing the more aware parts of the population, at least any person who's been here a short time. I think Jimmy Kimmel has a pretty funny video of his street interviewing people asking people "what's gluten" and seeing how many people avoid it but don't know what it is.
Those people are Diet Hobbyists. It's fun for them and that's cool. It's just a different thing for me. I'm very serious about my health and getting my weight in the right place is a part of that, but it's not the only part. Healthy foods, a low-fat diet and exercise are huge part of it for me and I work very hard at it. The whole "I want to look better" is great and enjoyable, but a distant second to the #1 Goal: Being Helathier (or healthy, maybe.)
The Diet Hobbyists and I share little in common. I wish them well and don't think they should change! I just have...like I said, I have bigger fish to fry.
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I'm not sure there is conclusive proof of the above, it sounds rather like conspiracy theory. Also the causative relationship troubles me...whereas, and I may be misreading here, you seem to be implying that IR is the cause of obesity and not a result of being overweight
The medical picture is interesting ...There is much we do not know..I even read a theory that Lyme disease could be connected to many of these types of neurological ailments, including Alzheimer's
I think IR could be a cause of obesity or a co-occurring factor. I don't believe IR is always caused by obesity. I think there is a link to obesity, but it may not be the causal factor that it was thought to be... Sort of like Cholesterol and CAD. There's a link, but high cholesterol is probably not the cause. (A high carb diet raises triglycerides which IS a cause of CAD though.
)
I was about 20 lbs overweight when my IR was identified, but looking back I've had signs of IR (such as reactive hypoglycemia) since my teen years when I was varsity athlete who worked out a couple of hours a day and had little extra fat.
Lyme is a nasty disease. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a trigger to dementia. Sort of like how my untreated celiac disease led to other health problems, and taking steoids seems to have brought out and worsened IR in me. Poor health can give you a nudge in the wrong direction.0 -
I am still guessing that roughly half of Americans is affected by some form of insulin resistance attacking the liver (NAFLD), reproductive organs (PCOS), brain (alzheimer's) or other parts of the body. My guess is that at least half of all people will experience IR in their lifetime.
Diabetes: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/ Over 9% of the UA has T2D and over 27% has prediabetes. Over a quarter of all seniors have T2D... Wonder what prediabetes shoots up to in this group?
NAFLD: Close to a third of Americans have hepatic steatosis and NAFLD. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23703888
PCOS: Roughly 5-10% of women have PCOS. https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/PCOS/conditioninfo/Pages/risk.aspx
Alzheimer's: 1 in 3 seniors dies with Alzheimer's or dementia. it is the 6th leading cause of death in th US. http://www.alz.org/facts/ I do disagree that it can not be slowed though as a ketogenic has been shown to do this (for many).
Coronary Artery Disease: Many doctors think CAD is caused in part by IR. http://www.jci.org/articles/view/10762 Considering 1 in 4 die from CAD, neverind those living with CAD, IR is affecting many people.
There is a lot of overlap between these diseases, but they don't all overlap. I just had one problem (prediabetes). I have two family friends who have developed alzheimers without T2D. I bet that is about 50%. About.
IR is a real problem. Those with IR have been shown to usually have improved health on a lower carb diet. Yes, some do fine on a moderate carb diet, but not all. Higher carbs is generally a problem for those with IR. Those without IR do fine with higher carb diets. The problem comes if you are predisposed to IR and develop it without knowing immediately. I guess that is often the case or there wouldn't be so many people who suddenly discover they have T2D, NAFLD or PCOS.
For healthy people, I see eating high carb as a risk. Even if you don't gain weight on a high carb diet, you could be affecting your long term health. Considering that carbs do not add any essential nutrients to a diet, I think it is best to not make carbs a majority of anyone's diet. People don't need to cut carbs to a minimum like I did, but keeping it below 30% makes sense to me.
JMO
Calling coronary artery disease or Alzheimers symptoms of insulin resistance sounds too much like golden hammer thinking to me. You'd be just as accurate to call them the antibiotic diseases - before antibiotics so few people lived long enough that neither disease was likely to show up as a common cause of death.
Non alcholic fatty liver disease isn't about insulin resistance, it is just plain about being overweight (other than possibly the tiny fraction of genetic causes).
Given that something like 60-70% of adults are overweight or obese, people could easily call any disease these days related to overweight conditions, and they'd probably be more correct than blaming IR when IR is probably a symptom of overweight, not a cause.0 -
It is a possible theory....but needs to be researched... some of the stats posted above are interesting, comparing IR incidence in healthy compared to overweight compared to obese0
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I am still guessing that roughly half of Americans is affected by some form of insulin resistance attacking the liver (NAFLD), reproductive organs (PCOS), brain (alzheimer's) or other parts of the body. My guess is that at least half of all people will experience IR in their lifetime.
Diabetes: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/ Over 9% of the UA has T2D and over 27% has prediabetes. Over a quarter of all seniors have T2D... Wonder what prediabetes shoots up to in this group?
NAFLD: Close to a third of Americans have hepatic steatosis and NAFLD. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23703888
PCOS: Roughly 5-10% of women have PCOS. https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/PCOS/conditioninfo/Pages/risk.aspx
Alzheimer's: 1 in 3 seniors dies with Alzheimer's or dementia. it is the 6th leading cause of death in th US. http://www.alz.org/facts/ I do disagree that it can not be slowed though as a ketogenic has been shown to do this (for many).
Coronary Artery Disease: Many doctors think CAD is caused in part by IR. http://www.jci.org/articles/view/10762 Considering 1 in 4 die from CAD, neverind those living with CAD, IR is affecting many people.
There is a lot of overlap between these diseases, but they don't all overlap. I just had one problem (prediabetes). I have two family friends who have developed alzheimers without T2D. I bet that is about 50%. About.
IR is a real problem. Those with IR have been shown to usually have improved health on a lower carb diet. Yes, some do fine on a moderate carb diet, but not all. Higher carbs is generally a problem for those with IR. Those without IR do fine with higher carb diets. The problem comes if you are predisposed to IR and develop it without knowing immediately. I guess that is often the case or there wouldn't be so many people who suddenly discover they have T2D, NAFLD or PCOS.
For healthy people, I see eating high carb as a risk. Even if you don't gain weight on a high carb diet, you could be affecting your long term health. Considering that carbs do not add any essential nutrients to a diet, I think it is best to not make carbs a majority of anyone's diet. People don't need to cut carbs to a minimum like I did, but keeping it below 30% makes sense to me.
JMO
Calling coronary artery disease or Alzheimers symptoms of insulin resistance sounds too much like golden hammer thinking to me. You'd be just as accurate to call them the antibiotic diseases - before antibiotics so few people lived long enough that neither disease was likely to show up as a common cause of death.
Non alcholic fatty liver disease isn't about insulin resistance, it is just plain about being overweight (other than possibly the tiny fraction of genetic causes).
Given that something like 60-70% of adults are overweight or obese, people could easily call any disease these days related to overweight conditions, and they'd probably be more correct than blaming IR when IR is probably a symptom of overweight, not a cause.
I don't know... I doubt that one third of the people who lived to be seniors, a couple of hundred years ago, had alzheimers. I doubt that a quarter of the people who made it to 65 during the dark ages, had T2D.
See, I think being overweight may be another symptom of IR, or what caused IR.
There is no real way of knowing if I am correct or not yet. It's a hypothesis. I may be proven wrong one day.0 -
It is a possible theory....but needs to be researched... some of the stats posted above are interesting, comparing IR incidence in healthy compared to overweight compared to obese
Yeah... I'd love to know now, but it will probably be many years before they have strong evidence (or not).0 -
I am still guessing that roughly half of Americans is affected by some form of insulin resistance attacking the liver (NAFLD), reproductive organs (PCOS), brain (alzheimer's) or other parts of the body. My guess is that at least half of all people will experience IR in their lifetime.
Diabetes: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/ Over 9% of the UA has T2D and over 27% has prediabetes. Over a quarter of all seniors have T2D... Wonder what prediabetes shoots up to in this group?
NAFLD: Close to a third of Americans have hepatic steatosis and NAFLD. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23703888
PCOS: Roughly 5-10% of women have PCOS. https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/PCOS/conditioninfo/Pages/risk.aspx
Alzheimer's: 1 in 3 seniors dies with Alzheimer's or dementia. it is the 6th leading cause of death in th US. http://www.alz.org/facts/ I do disagree that it can not be slowed though as a ketogenic has been shown to do this (for many).
Coronary Artery Disease: Many doctors think CAD is caused in part by IR. http://www.jci.org/articles/view/10762 Considering 1 in 4 die from CAD, neverind those living with CAD, IR is affecting many people.
There is a lot of overlap between these diseases, but they don't all overlap. I just had one problem (prediabetes). I have two family friends who have developed alzheimers without T2D. I bet that is about 50%. About.
IR is a real problem. Those with IR have been shown to usually have improved health on a lower carb diet. Yes, some do fine on a moderate carb diet, but not all. Higher carbs is generally a problem for those with IR. Those without IR do fine with higher carb diets. The problem comes if you are predisposed to IR and develop it without knowing immediately. I guess that is often the case or there wouldn't be so many people who suddenly discover they have T2D, NAFLD or PCOS.
For healthy people, I see eating high carb as a risk. Even if you don't gain weight on a high carb diet, you could be affecting your long term health. Considering that carbs do not add any essential nutrients to a diet, I think it is best to not make carbs a majority of anyone's diet. People don't need to cut carbs to a minimum like I did, but keeping it below 30% makes sense to me.
JMO
Calling coronary artery disease or Alzheimers symptoms of insulin resistance sounds too much like golden hammer thinking to me. You'd be just as accurate to call them the antibiotic diseases - before antibiotics so few people lived long enough that neither disease was likely to show up as a common cause of death.
Non alcholic fatty liver disease isn't about insulin resistance, it is just plain about being overweight (other than possibly the tiny fraction of genetic causes).
Given that something like 60-70% of adults are overweight or obese, people could easily call any disease these days related to overweight conditions, and they'd probably be more correct than blaming IR when IR is probably a symptom of overweight, not a cause.
I don't know... I doubt that one third of the people who lived to be seniors, a couple of hundred years ago, had alzheimers. I doubt that a quarter of the people who made it to 65 during the dark ages, had T2D.
See, I think being overweight may be another symptom of IR, or what caused IR.
There is no real way of knowing if I am correct or not yet. It's a hypothesis. I may be proven wrong one day.
Being overweight wasn't a problem for most people during the Dark Ages. It's a bad comparison to compare people who lived over 65 and were not overweight (mostly) during this time and people who live to be over 65 now and are overweight and have some sort of diseases potentially as a result.
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From my point of view, the argument works. I don't think becoming overweight is the cause of IR. i think it is often co-occuring. If the factors that cause getting fat were not there, then the factor that causes IR may not have been there either.0
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