once fat, always fat
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I started a threat in January for individuals who are brave enough to face the truth that weight issues often relate to a range of both personality and mental health matters and if we are going to have success with creating the body we deserve, we need to face ourselves. who we are and how we manage our life in many ways.
Feel free to join the discussion if weight seems to be a persistent "friend". There are reasons for this tendency which requires more thought than just scientific data and research. I am not saying that the mechanisms for weight loss and gain are not sound. I am sure they are. I am pointing out however that the eating is a deeply entrenched set of behavioural patterns and reflects psychological associations that cannot be easily shifted for many people. There are good reasons for this. But I don't want to alter the thread. If you would like to discuss this in more detail,take a look at what people are writing on the forum I have mentioned (Depression and Weightless).
Take Care
Shel
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No, I don't believe it. I do know that once fat, always harder to stay thin. Not only do we see most people who lose weight gain it back, but they've already found physiological reasons that it's harder to stay thin. I'd be a fool to not realize that it is going to be tough to stay thin and that I'll have to guard against regaining for life.
I don't know (in real life) anyone who lost a lot of weight and didn't gain it all back. Instead of letting that discourage me, I use them as cautionary tales. "Be careful. Don't get sloppy. That could happen to you." I'd never say, "Hey, Lisa, your fatness is what keeps me going! Thanks for gaining it all back!" or anything. But it's in my head. "Don't end up like Lisa."
I don't believe it cannot be done. If you're ready to work at it for life and you have a good reason (whatever that reason is) to remain thin, it's possible to do it.
I have to believe it's possible. The other option isn't acceptable.0 -
Pardon me : Correction. Depression and Weightloss0
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I will say that one woman told me she purposely let herself get too thin (5'4", 290lb to 108lb) because she wanted to have "wiggle room."
Allowing herself the wiggle room meant she could gain a few pounds and not sweat it. But then, she knew she had the extra room and decided to chow down and use them up. Soon, she was back to old habits and went up over 300 pounds again. She never lost it.
I remember that. I remember everything people tell me about their failures.0 -
It comes down to being informed. When you know getter... You usually do better.
This time around... I'm learning how to blend a Calorie deficit with a diet that doesn't leave Me feeling deprived. And I've accepted some days I will go over (cheat days) and these are accounted for.
Now once you've been fat... You always remember what it feels like to be fat... You never Forget that. That alone can be a motivating force. It is for me.0 -
I disagree.0
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I am 46 years old. I have spent most of my adult life yo-yo-ing with my weight. After a weight loss, I'd gain it back and then some. It's not about once fat, always fat. It's a cognitive shift you MUST have to lose the weight and then to keep the weight off. It is a way of life. It's not a diet, not a temporary fix. I can't go back to forgetting to pack lunch, starving all day, coming home and binging on ice cream, cookies, running to McDonald's and getting chicken strips (because they are healthier than a burger, right?) and fries...let's top it off with a hot fudge sundae. I mean, that's how I lived my entire adult life. Now that I've lost 85 lbs, I don't do that anymore and I know I can't do that ever again. I plan my meals every day. I make sure I'm not hungry so I don't go crazy. I drink lots of water and green tea. It's a change in lifestyle. I won't gain the weight back unless I give up my new way of thinking and living. I'm so committed that I don't see that happening.0
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Maintaining physical fitness and a healthy diet has very little to do with age, or past physical condition including weight.
Meet Ernestine Shephard http://ernestineshepherd.net/?page_id=2 She describes herself as a "sedentary, well-padded school secretary when she start body building at age 56. She's now age 75 and still competing and training others.
Meet Harriet Thompson https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/05/31/harriette-thompson-92-is-trying-to-become-oldest-woman-to-run-a-marathon/ Started running at age 76, and has run 16 marathons since 1999. She's 92.
And look at these 9 athletes www.cozi.com/live-simply/9-aging-athletes-who-put-you-shame
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »I disagree.
Can I ask you to explain further? You seem to be very knowledgeable about weight loss and maintenance and I would like to hear what you have to say
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Dieting is so goal-oriented. Maintenance is different. I really don't know until I get to that maintenance place. I like to think I'll monitor my weight. I do know, just for me, that at my age, it's going to need to be lifelong habit to weigh, make sure I'm not over-indulging, and keep an eye on it.
I have to give up big portions. Period. It's STILL very hard for me to convince myself that the smaller amount of food really will be enough.0 -
I won't. Even when at my highest weight in a bulk I can still say I'm down 60 pounds.0
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Being informed about weight loss and maintenance!!!! You can't go back to previous eating habits (aka AMOUNTS) You'll always be eating less than you did at 250-300-800 lbs. You'll never be able to eat that way again. But you don't have to eat 1200 calories either. Lose the weight, eat less, move more. It's simple in concept, but harder in execution!Just by judging on how many people are repeat users of MFP, I think that the majority pf people gain back the weight and are not capable of doing a lifestyle change, which is mandatory if one wants to maintain in a healthy range. I am seeing posts here where people are losing weight but complaining about how sometimes they are still binging on sweets or alcohol, or pizza, or processed food. If one doesn't start to dramatically change their eating habits, it's a lost cause in my opinion.
^^Thos and this. 'Nuf said.0 -
you need to know how many calories you need to lose and maintain and keep track of what you eat.
And if you lose weight by doing exercises and eating foods you hate or by doing fad diets then no, you will not keep the weight off. If you find those healthy foods you like and exercises to match then yes, you should have no problem keeping the weight off because you like what you're doing/eating0 -
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I have to believe it's possible. The other option isn't acceptable.
This.
I'm also the kind of person who gets a certain amount of pleasure from beating the statistics. You say I can't do it? Hmm, well, we'll just see about that.
But, as some have already said, the tools MFP provides are what give me the confidence that I have everything I need to achieve my goal of long-term maintenance.
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blessingsfromabove721 wrote: »Taking an excerpt out of one of the big posts trending on here right now (the one about the 800lb man getting kicked out of the hospital), somebody posted a story on that thread about a girl who was very large and lost some weight but not in the healthy way. Anyways, basically what she said was that most people who start off fat, even if they lose the weight, will always be fat...no matter how hard they try. And basically she made the assumption that even if you do manage to keep the weight off for any length of time, you will have to eat a very low calorie diet and you will basically be miserable, sick and tired.
My question is: do you think this is true? Do you think the majority of us will regain the weight and as she called "once your fat, you'll always be fat"? Or do you think it all comes down to being informed about weight loss and maintenance?
Disagree with the first bolded. Second bolded I will explain why I disagree below.blessingsfromabove721 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I disagree.
Can I ask you to explain further? You seem to be very knowledgeable about weight loss and maintenance and I would like to hear what you have to say
With the exception of someone that loss weight very quickly (say using VLCD), most people had to go through a process to lose weight. This often will have taught the person sustainability to a point. Metabolic adaptation generally occurs in someone that has practiced low calorie diets for long periods of time.
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »blessingsfromabove721 wrote: »Taking an excerpt out of one of the big posts trending on here right now (the one about the 800lb man getting kicked out of the hospital), somebody posted a story on that thread about a girl who was very large and lost some weight but not in the healthy way. Anyways, basically what she said was that most people who start off fat, even if they lose the weight, will always be fat...no matter how hard they try. And basically she made the assumption that even if you do manage to keep the weight off for any length of time, you will have to eat a very low calorie diet and you will basically be miserable, sick and tired.
My question is: do you think this is true? Do you think the majority of us will regain the weight and as she called "once your fat, you'll always be fat"? Or do you think it all comes down to being informed about weight loss and maintenance?
Disagree with the first bolded. Second bolded I will explain why I disagree below.blessingsfromabove721 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I disagree.
Can I ask you to explain further? You seem to be very knowledgeable about weight loss and maintenance and I would like to hear what you have to say
With the exception of someone that loss weight very quickly (say using VLCD), most people had to go through a process to lose weight. This often will have taught the person sustainability to a point. Metabolic adaptation generally occurs in someone that has practiced low calorie diets for long periods of time.
Gotcha, thanks 0 -
Statistically speaking I think it like a 5% success rate of those who lose weight will keep it off long term. But I truly think it's all about your mental attitude. If you see this as a diet then you will fail its as simple as that. If you see an end point you will fail. You will only suceed when you finally realize this is something you will be doing forever so it better be a change you can live with.0
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I think the old phrase 'misery loves company' probably explains this threads kick off the best...
That being said, the diet 'industry' depends on rinse & repeat behaviors. Here, however, you see the confluence of many different modes of loss. There are definitely multitudes of crash & serial dieters who seem destined to come & go, but there are also some very legit long term losers & maintainers who seem to me like they have really changed their relationship with food & their own bodies. And I find those folks fascinating and generous and wise beyond measure! They are what keep me interested in the forum.
So I guess none of us ever knows if we'll ultimately succeed, but if we continue to show up for ourselves day in and day out not just for the good days or the easy days but also for the vexing days, the humiliating days and the heartbreaking days, one day we'll realize we've chosen success...0 -
If I believed I was doomed to failure, why would I try? I guess thinking like that is why it was a long time since I've seriously worked on weight loss.
I think the key to this that I have now, and something I didn't have on my one successful weight loss adventure, was the mindset that I need to build skills and habits for a lifetime. A diet isn't a lose-weight-and-it's-over kind of thing. My one major weight loss wasn't really even a planned thing, but a result of environmental changes combined with depression (which absolutely kills my appetite). As such, I never really learned anything that I could apply when my environment changed again and when I began to feel better.
I don't think failure itself is a bad thing - as long as we learn from our failures, pick ourselves up, and move on. It's up to us on whether failure is the end of our journey, or just one step along the path to ultimate success.0 -
I grew up fat; I think starting from age 8. When I was 27 I weighed 172. After 9 months of doing Weight Watchers I lost to my goal weight of 120, and I think even got to 111 when I was trying to maintain. 14 years later, I weigh 124.8 as of this morning. I would like to get down to 120 again, and am working on it, but am proud of maintaining 95% of my weight lost.
I think the reason I have maintained this weight is I am very sensitive to the fact that I like being at this weight. I do weigh myself a lot but happily have learned over 15 years what scale variations really mean. I don't over obsess over one day (or one week for vacations) of excessive eating, because when I am back to normal I don't still go to excesses.
I mentioned that I am trying to lose the last 4.8 pounds to get back to goal. They truly are vanity pounds and are slow to drop. I am being a bit more strict with myself, but still enjoy my life. And I know that for me I need to keep an eye on the scale - always - to keep that joy.0 -
Fascinating discussion. Maintenance scares me because this is my second try. However, one thing is different. This time I see my life changes as just that. Permanent. This is my new normal. I'm not suffering now so why should I when am at goal. Yes, there are times when I really want to go overboard but it's not worth it. I didn't give up any food that I love. I'm just making sure to fit it into my new style.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »Y'all might regain. I won't.
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No, it's not true. I mean the difficulty might depend on how heavy people were to start, how long, etc. I think there are changes to metabolism that have to be accounted for.
The things that flip people into regain imo and ime are 1) life events/changes (pregnancy, illness, major life stress, change to inopportune situation for health) and 2) not recognizing the regain or not being in a psychological position to address it and 3) not adapting to the new circumstances with an appropriate response. The diet or WOE you lose or maintain on at time X may not be the one that works at time X-2.
I maintained for four years (actually longer - that's from 178 in 2010; I briefly peaked at 198 in the early 2000s) and regained 18 pounds after injury + not adapting well enough.
Scale monitoring, not letting your clothes get tight, help you see what's going on. The rest is trial and error.
Maintenance wasn't miserable for me by any means. It did require more activity than I'm able to do now. Which means having to change the WOE - that can be tough, when particular habits of diet and fitness have worked well for a long time.
Most people will encounter some kind of challenge/change, though, life being what it is.0 -
When one can't wait to get off their diet and start eating "norm" meaning the old way sure they are going to do a 100%+ regain down the road. While I would like to lose another 25 pounds I never plan to eat differently than I have for the past year. For the first time in my life I know how to lose weight and maintain. All I have to do is more of the same. There is nothing more to learn. If I become obese again it will be because I choose to do so.0
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Fascinating discussion. Maintenance scares me because this is my second try. However, one thing is different. This time I see my life changes as just that. Permanent. This is my new normal. I'm not suffering now so why should I when am at goal. Yes, there are times when I really want to go overboard but it's not worth it. I didn't give up any food that I love. I'm just making sure to fit it into my new style.
Everything about this is why you are going to have long term success.0 -
@synacious " I'm 30 now and I weigh 118 pounds; my body looks the best it ever has in my life. Do I deprive myself? No. Yesterday I had half of a pumpkin spice donut, half of an apple cinnamon donut, half of a jelly donut, and a hamburger with BBQ sauce and french fries. I enjoyed every bite, but I know I can't eat like that every single day unless I'm willing to get the physical activity it takes to burn that off or maintain my weight. I still ended up losing two pounds this week when my goal is only half a pound per week. I didn't mean to, but I move around so much now that it just happened."
I weighed 115 until age 38, and then I slowly slowly gained. Up to to that point I ate whatever I wanted and the weight just melted off of me. I was always active too. So "age" is not necessarily starting at 30. Now, I can't even look at those things you mention in your comment. If I overeat one day, or eat something that has a tiny bit of more sodium or sugar, I gain 1-2 lbs that takes me 4-5 days to work off. I lift weights and do cardio 7 days a week. Have to do almost scientific efforts to lose the weight.
So as a conclusion, if one continues eating the stuff you mentioned, around a certain "age" one will gain back the weight without a doubt.
That's because you're gaining water weight... donuts or hamburgers won't make you gain weight as long as they fit your calories. Just saying.
I experienced first hand that the balance also counts. I cannot explain how, but the same caloric intake of "bad" food stays on more. Not to mention the increased cholesterol intake that just shortens one's life.
My point was really that we'd better watch out how and what we eat because at the end, you'll pay the piper. 0 -
@synacious " I'm 30 now and I weigh 118 pounds; my body looks the best it ever has in my life. Do I deprive myself? No. Yesterday I had half of a pumpkin spice donut, half of an apple cinnamon donut, half of a jelly donut, and a hamburger with BBQ sauce and french fries. I enjoyed every bite, but I know I can't eat like that every single day unless I'm willing to get the physical activity it takes to burn that off or maintain my weight. I still ended up losing two pounds this week when my goal is only half a pound per week. I didn't mean to, but I move around so much now that it just happened."
I weighed 115 until age 38, and then I slowly slowly gained. Up to to that point I ate whatever I wanted and the weight just melted off of me. I was always active too. So "age" is not necessarily starting at 30. Now, I can't even look at those things you mention in your comment. If I overeat one day, or eat something that has a tiny bit of more sodium or sugar, I gain 1-2 lbs that takes me 4-5 days to work off. I lift weights and do cardio 7 days a week. Have to do almost scientific efforts to lose the weight.
So as a conclusion, if one continues eating the stuff you mentioned, around a certain "age" one will gain back the weight without a doubt.
That's because you're gaining water weight... donuts or hamburgers won't make you gain weight as long as they fit your calories. Just saying.
I experienced first hand that the balance also counts. I cannot explain how, but the same caloric intake of "bad" food stays on more. Not to mention the increased cholesterol intake that just shortens one's life.
My point was really that we'd better watch out how and what we eat because at the end, you'll pay the piper.
Nope. As long as you're in a caloric deficit , weight comes off. No matter what. If you didn't lose weight, you weren't in a deficit. You need to weigh all solid food on a food scale to accurately verify caloric intake. All things in moderation, including cholesterol, and you're fine.
and as far as the piper goes, no one gets out alive, that's just how it goes. Enjoy the journey.0 -
@synacious " I'm 30 now and I weigh 118 pounds; my body looks the best it ever has in my life. Do I deprive myself? No. Yesterday I had half of a pumpkin spice donut, half of an apple cinnamon donut, half of a jelly donut, and a hamburger with BBQ sauce and french fries. I enjoyed every bite, but I know I can't eat like that every single day unless I'm willing to get the physical activity it takes to burn that off or maintain my weight. I still ended up losing two pounds this week when my goal is only half a pound per week. I didn't mean to, but I move around so much now that it just happened."
I weighed 115 until age 38, and then I slowly slowly gained. Up to to that point I ate whatever I wanted and the weight just melted off of me. I was always active too. So "age" is not necessarily starting at 30. Now, I can't even look at those things you mention in your comment. If I overeat one day, or eat something that has a tiny bit of more sodium or sugar, I gain 1-2 lbs that takes me 4-5 days to work off. I lift weights and do cardio 7 days a week. Have to do almost scientific efforts to lose the weight.
So as a conclusion, if one continues eating the stuff you mentioned, around a certain "age" one will gain back the weight without a doubt.
That's because you're gaining water weight... donuts or hamburgers won't make you gain weight as long as they fit your calories. Just saying.
I experienced first hand that the balance also counts. I cannot explain how, but the same caloric intake of "bad" food stays on more. Not to mention the increased cholesterol intake that just shortens one's life.
My point was really that we'd better watch out how and what we eat because at the end, you'll pay the piper.
Nope. As long as you're in a caloric deficit , weight comes off. No matter what. If you didn't lose weight, you weren't in a deficit. You need to weigh all solid food on a food scale to accurately verify caloric intake. All things in moderation, including cholesterol, and you're fine.
and as far as the piper goes, no one gets out alive, that's just how it goes. Enjoy the journey.
I don't intend to hijack this thread, but if you look at my diary, you can see how detailed I am logging everything. I am weighing even the .2 oz garlic I put in food. In spite of this, I lost maybe 1 lb in 2 weeks. So in spite of all the heavy training and proper eating, I have difficulty losing at my age.
Also, eating 200 calories of carbs is NOT the same as eating 200 calories of fat. Carbs burn up, fat stays. And fat is only burnt after you used up all the carbs in your body. So it does count what type of food you eat within the same caloric intake.0
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